iHeartless

[Rusty Bridges]

You would be surprised how deep the penetration of streaming services is among seniors. Because so few traditional radio stations serve that demographic actively, many have discovered services. With seniors, Amazon's music service has made a strong impact due to the rapid adoption of the Echo devices which makes it really easy and actually fun.

No. I'm not surprised. At all. "Alexa, play..." and "Google, play..." have become commands that 55+ adults use almost as frequently as they are used by 18-34 year olds cited in previous posts. Kids, pre-teens know how to use the commands and adapt to the technology just as well. So what does this tell radio folks about the future of OTA radio? In short, it's screwed. Nobody ---except maybe the sales manager, program director or commercial production director, listens to an eight minute -12 unit commercial break on OTA radio. Advertisers are being cheated if they're number seven in a twelve unit break. The average listener (and we here are not average listeners) moves on after the third or fourth commercial because he/she knows there are probably eight more commercials, no matter how creative or unique, to come and he/she has a short attention span and more entertainment choices. Lots of choices. Maybe the listener bounces back to your station in ten minutes when he/she loses interest in the station or entertainment platform they selected because your station was in a long commercial break. But take a look at TV viewing, live vs delayed playback. If you're watching either, especially a DVR playback, do you watch the commercials? Only if you're a producer or actor or TV geek. Most people press FF. It used to be the five or six pre-sets on the radio that offered choices but these days it's any number of alternate platform choices. OTA radio --- AM, FM whatever, has about ten years of commercial viability. The clock started ticking ten years ago. That light at the end of the tunnel isn't daylight and fresh air, it's an oncoming train.

 

[Buddy Shula]

Two different issues. The FCC can force them to sell over the station limit. The FTC can force if revenue exceeds a certain percentage. No single owner can control more than half of the market's revenue.

ETM has over a 50-almost a 60% share of revenue in Buffalo, nearly monthly. So what is the number that the FTC gets involved?

 

[Buddy Shula]

No. I'm not surprised. At all. "Alexa, play..." and "Google, play..." have become commands that 55+ adults use almost as frequently as they are used by 18-34 year olds cited in previous posts. Kids, pre-teens know how to use the commands and adapt to the technology just as well. So what does this tell radio folks about the future of OTA radio? In short, it's screwed. Nobody ---except maybe the sales manager, program director or commercial production director, listens to an eight minute -12 unit commercial break on OTA radio. Advertisers are being cheated if they're number seven in a twelve unit break. The average listener (and we here are not average listeners) moves on after the third or fourth commercial because he/she knows there are probably eight more commercials, no matter how creative or unique, to come and he/she has a short attention span and more entertainment choices. Lots of choices. Maybe the listener bounces back to your station in ten minutes when he/she loses interest in the station or entertainment platform they selected because your station was in a long commercial break. But take a look at TV viewing, live vs delayed playback. If you're watching either, especially a DVR playback, do you watch the commercials? Only if you're a producer or actor or TV geek. Most people press FF. It used to be the five or six pre-sets on the radio that offered choices but these days it's any number of alternate platform choices. OTA radio --- AM, FM whatever, has about ten years of commercial viability. The clock started ticking ten years ago. That light at the end of the tunnel isn't daylight and fresh air, it's an oncoming train.

Alexa is the new home radio. Has been for a few years. WECK pounds Alexa , and our listening numbers on Alexa and voice activated devices are thru the roof. OTA radio is not done in 10 years.

 

[Buddy Shula]

No. I'm not surprised. At all. "Alexa, play..." and "Google, play..." have become commands that 55+ adults use almost as frequently as they are used by 18-34 year olds cited in previous posts. Kids, pre-teens know how to use the commands and adapt to the technology just as well. So what does this tell radio folks about the future of OTA radio? In short, it's screwed. Nobody ---except maybe the sales manager, program director or commercial production director, listens to an eight minute -12 unit commercial break on OTA radio. Advertisers are being cheated if they're number seven in a twelve unit break. The average listener (and we here are not average listeners) moves on after the third or fourth commercial because he/she knows there are probably eight more commercials, no matter how creative or unique, to come and he/she has a short attention span and more entertainment choices. Lots of choices. Maybe the listener bounces back to your station in ten minutes when he/she loses interest in the station or entertainment platform they selected because your station was in a long commercial break. But take a look at TV viewing, live vs delayed playback. If you're watching either, especially a DVR playback, do you watch the commercials? Only if you're a producer or actor or TV geek. Most people press FF. It used to be the five or six pre-sets on the radio that offered choices but these days it's any number of alternate platform choices. OTA radio --- AM, FM whatever, has about ten years of commercial viability. The clock started ticking ten years ago. That light at the end of the tunnel isn't daylight and fresh air, it's an oncoming train.

Advertisers are not being "screwed" in radio stop-sets. Our clients get results. We hear it all the time. That is why they continue to advertise. Listeners have favorite "stations", especially if they are market-exclusive formats, while TV stations have favorite "shows". If you are spot #6 in a radio stop-set, and you are giving away a million dollars in that message, your gonna get response. People are listening, and with radio, their is no DVR, so market exclusive formats are especially good for advertisers. Radio needs to do a far better job at creating BETTER commercials....that's the problem. If radio was more creative, we would not be having this discussion. People watch the commercials on the super bowl because they are creative. Radio needs to establish that thinking daily.

 

[davideduardo]

Reading David's post about PUR could be interpreted as an indication that the bland radio served up by iHeart and other in the markets mentioned is simply driving people to look for content on other platforms. Are they leaving radio because other options are more attractive, or because radio has become so much less attractive?

But they are not leaving. They just spend more time. The cume of terrestrial radio is still around 90% of all persons, remembering that at the high point in the late 80's that figure was around 94%. There have always been a certain percentage of non users; some don't like anything on the radio and some are otherwise engaged by illness, a tough work schedule, a week of meetings, etc.

People are finding radio less of an influence in their lives. They find friends on Social Media, not with a DJ. They can play songs they like on YouTube, find fewer commercials on Pandora or pay for an on-demand service. But they keep coming back to radio for

The late night TV rating of the three network shows for persons 18-49 is about 1.19% of the available audience. Radio would consider that a catastrophe. It's a specious argument. Local TV stations don't run late night shows for the simple reason that most people don't watch. There's not enough money in it to make is profitable.

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Actually, the late night rating of all radio combined nationally at 11 PM is less than that. Total radio listing in that one hour is equal to around a 0.9 to 1.1 in the several markets I reviewed.

Of course, we need to keep in mind that politicization of the late TV shows has effectively reduced the potential audience by at least 50% based on part and another significant percent among viewers who are tired of it all... a problem radio does not have.

 

[Greg Strickland]

btw- Years ago temporary housing was kindly provided to me in downtown Burbank. At the time a movie was being filmed at night. The area was covered with gear, cables and lit up with blue light used to simulate darkness in a camera friendly way. It was interesting, but all I wanted was to go get something to eat.

(You don't think "live from Burbank..." wasn't really recorded, do you?).

 

[TheBigA]

Reading David's post about PUR could be interpreted as an indication that the bland radio served up by iHeart and other in the markets mentioned is simply driving people to look for content on other platforms.

If so, then why is iHeart beating so many other stations? Bland radio wins. In New York, WLTW is #1. In LA, KOST is #1. When iHeart does its bland Christmas format, it doubles the shares of the stations it's on. Sure, people are looking for content on other platforms, but not because the content is bland. The two factors mentioned: Get away from annoying DJs and commercials.

 

[TheBigA]

ETM has over a 50-almost a 60% share of revenue in Buffalo, nearly monthly. So what is the number that the FTC gets involved?

Here's an example where the DOJ required divestiture of radio stations because of potential anti-trust in advertising sales:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...-stations-boston-san-francisco-and-sacramento

“The required divestitures will protect competition for local businesses that advertise on radio stations in Boston, San Francisco and Sacramento,” said Assistant Attorney General Makan Delrahim of the Justice Department’s Antitrust Division. “The elimination of this competition would have resulted in higher prices to businesses in these markets.”

 

[davideduardo]

ETM has over a 50-almost a 60% share of revenue in Buffalo, nearly monthly. So what is the number that the FTC gets involved?

FTC and DoJ can intervene at 50% or control of a specific segment.

The two major sports stations were not allowed to merge in the Entercom / CBS deal because they would control nearly all the sports revenue and team contracts. When Clear Channel owned a small part of HBC, a Houston divestiture was required as otherwise to great a control of Hispanic listening would have occurred.

it’s a case by case situation with niche monopolies, concentrated oligopolies and controls of sectors all being examined.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

People watch commercials in the Super Bowl because it's an event. Last year, most of the commercials were panned by panels comprised of average viewers, as well a media pundits. Advertising research shows that viewers are more apt to watch commercials in live sports presentations such as the Olympics and big games, such as championships. Day to day radio hardly qualifies as an event. Ten years from now RF transmitters will be an expensive option most likely re-purposed as Roxalot suggests, but an option nonetheless.

 

[CTListener]

If so, then why is iHeart beating so many other stations? Bland radio wins. In New York, WLTW is #1. In LA, KOST is #1. When iHeart does its bland Christmas format, it doubles the shares of the stations it's on. Sure, people are looking for content on other platforms, but not because the content is bland.

Yep, lowest common denominator rules, always has. Look at ice cream. Despite the best efforts of everyone from Baskin Robbins to Ben & Jerry's to expand America's ice cream palette, the most popular flavors, year after year after year, remain vanilla, chocolate and strawberry, in that order.

 

[TheBigA]

Of course, we need to keep in mind that politicization of the late TV shows has effectively reduced the potential audience by at least 50%

Depends on where you live. Fewer viewers in Mississippi and Idaho, more in NYC and LA.

 

[CTListener]

Depends on where you live. Fewer viewers in Mississippi and Idaho, more in NYC and LA.

And don't think the advertisers aren't aware of that! If "flyover country" leaned liberal and the coasts leaned conservative, the late-night talk scene would be a whole lot different and almost certainly wouldn't include Colbert or Kimmel.

 

[flybynight]

And don't think the advertisers aren't aware of that! If "flyover country" leaned liberal and the coasts leaned conservative, the late-night talk scene would be a whole lot different and almost certainly wouldn't include Colbert or Kimmel.

Smarter, more affluent people generally live in larger metro areas. Rural? Not so much. Not a co-inkydink things are the way they are.

 

[davideduardo]

Smarter, more affluent people generally live in larger metro areas. Rural? Not so much. Not a co-inkydink things are the way they are.

But there are plenty of larger metros besides the three western states and the northeast. All these are in flyover states: Dallas, Houston, Miami, Atlanta, Cleveland, Detroit, Nashville, St Louis, Twin Cities, Kansas City, Omaha, Denver, Denver, Salt Lake, Phoenix, Little Rock and on and on.

 

[Tall Thin One]

Advertisers are not being "screwed" in radio stop-sets. Our clients get results. We hear it all the time. That is why they continue to advertise. Listeners have favorite "stations", especially if they are market-exclusive formats, while TV stations have favorite "shows". If you are spot #6 in a radio stop-set, and you are giving away a million dollars in that message, your gonna get response. People are listening, and with radio, their is no DVR, so market exclusive formats are especially good for advertisers. Radio needs to do a far better job at creating BETTER commercials....that's the problem. If radio was more creative, we would not be having this discussion. People watch the commercials on the super bowl because they are creative. Radio needs to establish that thinking daily.

Buddy, if the shoe were on the other foot and you were the buyer, there's no way you'd stand for being placed deep into a seven or eight minute -12 unit commercial stop set. Yet you and every other manager in town are doing it to their advertisers every day. In my book, that's called "screwed".

 

[tbolt909]

Depends on where you live. Fewer viewers in Mississippi and Idaho, more in NYC and LA.

So, is David saying that Rednecks are offended by Late Night TV hosts and "ain't gonna watch no Lib Tard comic mock my President".? TV shows don't stay on the air if they don't achieve an acceptable level of ratings.

What exactly is Fox News? It's not "News" in the traditional sense. It's "politicized propaganda". Late Night TV is entertainment. Politicians are fair game in the realm of comedy...

 

[CTListener]

But there are plenty of larger metros besides the three western states and the northeast. All these are in flyover states: Dallas, Houston, Miami, Atlanta, Cleveland, Detroit, Nashville, St Louis, Twin Cities, Kansas City, Omaha, Denver, Denver, Salt Lake, Phoenix, Little Rock and on and on.

But the elephants in the room are New York and Los Angeles. With those two being so large and being media centers as well, coastal tastes and attitudes are always going to influence network programming, especially when comedy is involved. Even if what Dallas and Phoenix like in a late night show clashes with what New York and LA like, the number of viewers lost in "red" cities as a result of displeasure with Colbert's nightly mockery of a president popular in those places won't matter enough for the networks to risk alienating viewers in the mega-markets on the coasts by putting conservatives in the hosting roles. (I realize this thread is drifting far from iHeartRadio, so I'll understand if David wants to end this line of discussion.)

 

[Buddy Shula]

Buddy, if the shoe were on the other foot and you were the buyer, there's no way you'd stand for being placed deep into a seven or eight minute -12 unit commercial stop set. Yet you and every other manager in town are doing it to their advertisers every day. In my book, that's called "screwed".

Nobody in Buffalo has a 12 minute stop set. I have an ad agency. I buy fir my clients on all the big three Wall Street companies. I never ask for a certain spot placement and all my clients get results. If they didn’t, we would not be using radio

 

[Buddy Shula]

Yep, lowest common denominator rules, always has. Look at ice cream. Despite the best efforts of everyone from Baskin Robbins to Ben & Jerry's to expand America's ice cream palette, the most popular flavors, year after year after year, remain vanilla, chocolate and strawberry, in that order.

You have to look at the demo and the population of that demo is in each city. Formats are not one size fits all