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in need of some help

R

rookiejames

Guest
Hello,

I am a frequent visitor to this board, and now I am hoping for some assistance with FM processing. Let me start by saying I am not an engineer, but I've been given the job of figuring all of this out.

My station is an Adult CHR format, running on 6000 watts in an unrated market. Wide playlist with rock, hip-hop, 90's tunes, and even some 80's gold at lunch. We use an Orban Optimod 8400 with the latest software.

I am in desperate need of some help with the 8400. "Loud" presets are too loud, while plain presets are too quiet. All presets seem to have a negative effect on vocals. Side note: I am a huge fan of processing on WSB-FM/Atlanta. If I could make our 8400 sound like them, I would never touch it again.

I know that many of the great engineers who use this board have worked with the 8400 and other Orban products, so I am praying that I might find the answers that I need on this board. I greatly appreciate any advice or information that anyone can pass along to me. Thank you very much.

Best regards
James Whitney
 
best advice, leave it alone and contact Orban.Not knowing your air chain makes it difficult to offer much help.i believe WSB FM may be running an Omnia 6ex.Regardless if they do or don't i would think their air chain is HD or run with AES digital inputs.Never had happy results with Orban support, but i do know Mark at Omnia is one of the best i've ever seen in a support role.Contact Orban and explain what you are trying to do.Inexperienced hands on a processor can get it out of whack very quickly..Good luck
 
Couldn't agree more.

Figure out a way to put into words what you want, and call Orban.

Be prepared to answer some questions. Regarding your STL/transmission setup..

They should be there to help.

After getting stuck a few times, calling Aphex and Omnia got me a good sounding radio station.
 
I think the thing that would help me most is figuring out the frequencies that WSB-FM boosts or reduces. I can probably figure out how much to add or take away if I knew the center frequencies they were dealing with on their equalizer. The thing that gripes me the most is the fact that the Optimod 8400 sounds like it is boosting the wrong frequencies. Does anyone have any idea about this, or maybe just some suggestions? Thanks
 
what type exciter ,STL, and xmtr do you use.What is the clipper set on using the loud preset?you may want to back it off say down to -5.if you are using a STL ,do you have a preprocessor at the studio?Compellor, Ariane, Gentners?Where is the station engineer?You need to contact Orban as was suggested on previous posts. If the processor sounds nasty on vocals, it may have a problem.Never heard of vocal problems on the 8100 ,8400 or 8500. This why the ENTIRE audio chain comes in to play.Something in the chain could be siphoning off those highs, usually in the STL.
 
I don't know much about the xmtr, other than it's been the same one we've used for 17 years. Exciter was recently replaced following a lightning storm. To the best of my knowledge it is digital. STL uses the composite feed so we have to keep the Optimod at the studio. It is the only piece of processing equipment we have between the control room and the xmtr.

We do not have preprocessors or an engineer. We're in an unrated market...so unrated market = unrated budget.

Can you describe which clipper setting you're talking about backing down?
 
I would strongly encourage you to call Orban support if you haven't already. They will be able to help you!! I couldn't get our Omnia to sound right and tried to "go it alone" which made matters worse. I called tech support and within 30 minutes had our station sounding the best it's ever sounded. Omnia tech support walked me through each section of the processor and explained what to tweak to capture our desired sound. I know you're using an Optimod, but I'd think (and hope) that their tech support could get you where you need to be.

On a side note; If you're trying to catch an Omnia.06 (as someone stated above) with an 8400 that may not be possible. Omnia has a different texture than Orban.

Good luck..
 
if you have a broadband connection, maybe Orban can dial in (ethernet)and look at what's going on.it's just hard to make suggestions without being there to hear the 8400 and what your expectations are.how far is the STL path to the XMTR? i prefer discreet left,right myself over comp stl.but tmj is right , you can't chase a Omnia 6 with a 8400.
 
rookiejames said:
I don't know much about the xmtr, other than it's been the same one we've used for 17 years. Exciter was recently replaced following a lightning storm. To the best of my knowledge it is digital. STL uses the composite feed so we have to keep the Optimod at the studio. It is the only piece of processing equipment we have between the control room and the xmtr.
Click to expand...
It sounds to me like your station is not getting the technical support it needs. You state the station has no engineer? Who maintains the transmitter then? You can locate the Optimod anywhere you want it, be it the studio or the transmitter site. Our setup where I work is as follows:

At the studio

Program Audio > Aphex Compellor > DA Converter > Digital STL Transmitter

At The Transmitter

Digital STL Receiver > Optimod 8200 Digital input

R
 
Thanks for all of the suggestions, however none of them have worked thus far. I called Orban today, only to be told that no one could help me because everyone was at the NAB conference. They seemed to find the idea of offering any help laughable.

Our transmitter is maintained by a freelance engineer who works for multiple radio stations within our market. He will not touch processors because of his obligations to competing stations. Everything except installation is left entirely up to programming/management at each individual station. That's why I turned to the board...and thanks again for all the suggestions. :)

gettinbyagain...I cannot check my private messages. I get an error message every time. ::)
 
that kind of Orban response was one reason why i went to Omnia with superb customer support.unload the 8400 and get the Omnia 5ex. (or 6 if you have the budget)It will smoke the 8400.The Broadcast warehouse dsp-x would also be a great choice.But if the budget does not allow for that, i would wait until NAB is over and try the top mgmt at orban, even Mr. Bob himself. the owners manual should offer tips as well..
 
menotti1 said:
the owners manual should offer tips as well..
Click to expand...

I would hope you have the owner's manual. I was the "first line" engineer/night jock in my small town. I basically put a piece of duct tape on things until a broadcast engineer came to fix it. OM asked me to work on the processing b/c it was smooth, but really flat and bland. For the 8100 we had, it had suggestions on how to get a desired sound. Spent 20 minutes out there and the station sounded like a million bucks on a 10-year old 8100.

Radio-X
 
I understand the engineer not wanting to touch the settings b/c of competors in the market.

For the situation that you are in - the first step is to get the engineer to give you a block diagram of the air chain. Then you can look at all the elements that may be affecting your on air sound. That would also be helpful when you talk to Orban.
 
sparks794 said:
I understand the engineer not wanting to touch the settings b/c of competors in the market.

For the situation that you are in - the first step is to get the engineer to give you a block diagram of the air chain. Then you can look at all the elements that may be affecting your on air sound. That would also be helpful when you talk to Orban.
Click to expand...

small town, unrated market....

but you have to be close to someone...so where are you
 
Thanks again for all the responses! To answer your question, we are in an area near Birmingham, AL close to Atlanta.

I saw that someone mentioned the 8100 unit. We used to have an 8100, and it's still in the garage with all of the knobs still set by our former engineer. We can't use the 8100...but can I find a way to transfer the 8100's settings over to the 8400? Will it sound good (assuming the 8100 sounded good)?

I also saw a thread on this board regarding presets for the 8200 V3 software. Can those settings be transferred to an 8400 and sound good?
 
“Sound Good” is a subjective term.

If you are trying to duplicate the sound of another station, you need to know all the specifications that station has within the air chain. They may have AGC boxes, equalizers and all sorts of dynamic processing effects such as phase rotation, etc. Based on the description of your own air chain, it sounds like it is very bare-bone basic. Without all those extra bells and whistles in the air chain, you are essentially limited to whatever parameters the Orban processor was designed with. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but you have to have an understanding of how DSP processing works, how to adjust parameters and have patience and a good ear. Presets in Orban units are essentially basic starting points. Once you find the one that is as close to the desired sound as you want, you then have to go back and tweak adjustments for perfection.

IIRC the 8400 units allow user access to all the internal parameters like attack / release times, compression ratios and so forth. The 8100’s had limited adjustments, and the 8200’s have a bit more flexibility, but is limited to “less / more” adjustments.

Additionally, the 8100 units were only two band processors. Starting with the 8200, it is upped to five bands. I'm guessing all the models released thereafter, are five band units. To match the 8100 sound with an 8200+, you'd have to knock it down to two bands, and know what the frequency crossover points were in the 8100's.

R
 
Rookie...You're in a great situation, but just don't know it!
Small market and hands on experience is the way to learn. Just make a chart of the current 8400 settings so if you screw it up you can go back to square one.
Get plenty of rest and plan to stay up some late Saturday night and tweak away. Have your trusty headphones and a decent receiver. Watch your mod-monitor to make sure you stay legal and have some fun. Learn what to listen for...the excessive "ssss" splash of too much clipping. The bass pumping of too slow a recovery time. Make small tweaks and "walk it in" to what you like. The guys at tech-support won't be of much help in such a subjective area. They're mostly tech-heads. The manual for the 8400 offers a number of presets as starting points. Use them and go from there. This is your time to learn..and get paid for it. Enjoy! Audio processing is as much art as it is science.
 
TowerLamp said:
Rookie...You're in a great situation, but just don't know it!
Small market and hands on experience is the way to learn. Just make a chart of the current 8400 settings so if you screw it up you can go back to square one.
Get plenty of rest and plan to stay up some late Saturday night and tweak away. Have your trusty headphones and a decent receiver. Watch your mod-monitor to make sure you stay legal and have some fun. Learn what to listen for...the excessive "ssss" splash of too much clipping. The bass pumping of too slow a recovery time. Make small tweaks and "walk it in" to what you like. The guys at tech-support won't be of much help in such a subjective area. They're mostly tech-heads. The manual for the 8400 offers a number of presets as starting points. Use them and go from there. This is your time to learn..and get paid for it. Enjoy! Audio processing is as much art as it is science.
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t suggest using headphones for this sort of thing. It is better to use a good set of monitors.

Also, don’t expect to get it tweaked in one night. You’ll get fatigued after awhile and will be less likely to really detect the effects of your adjustments.

R
 
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