Indie 103.1 to Return to LA on Terristrial Airwaves?

[radiojomo]

I've been hearing a lot of rumors about it ALL over the place! On Indie 103.1's Wikipedia it says:

However, since the departure of the terrestrial radio broadcast, there are rumors that the station's owner Entravision will return the station to the LA radio airwaves via its old signal at 103.1 or on KSSE 107.1 (the sister station of KDLD hosting a Spanish CHR format that is currently low rated) because the stream of Indie 103.1 online has been surpassing other terrestrial radio stations in LA.

ALSO TO NOTE:
-The ratings of KSSE ARE down to 1.2 (MATCHING THAT OF NOW "EL GATO" KDLD)
-KMVN (Movin' era) was about .6 above KSSE in the ratings and it was sold to Radio Centro
-The Entravision stated this about KSSE in their latest press release:
"Entravision's "Super Estrella" format on KSSC / KSSD / KSSE 107.1 FM is also seeing momentum in its share of listeners, leading up to the station's biggest promotion of the year: Reventon on July 18."
-ALL the local Entravision radio stations still have a link to "Indie" on their websites (meaning Entravision isn't giving up on Indie???)
-El Gato is competing with other Regional Mexican stations with more clear and powerful signals than KDLD. Might want to move the growing format to KSSE to keep all the listeners?
-KLSX has departed and the rumors about The Sound departing might bring in more listeners than before?
-The New Spanish KMVN might suck the ratings dry of KSSE

WHAT DO YOU THINK???

 

[davideduardo]

However, since the departure of the terrestrial radio broadcast, there are rumors that the station's owner Entravision will return the station to the LA radio airwaves via its old signal at 103.1 or on KSSE 107.1 (the sister station of KDLD hosting a Spanish CHR format that is currently low rated) because the stream of Indie 103.1 online has been surpassing other terrestrial radio stations in LA.

That's inaccurate data. In the last 6 books in LA, only two streamed terrestrial stations have made the book, KROQ and KOST. Indie's stream does not make the book, and is not ahead of any rated terrestrial station in LA.

-KMVN (Movin' era) was about .6 above KSSE in the ratings and it was sold to Radio Centro

KMVN was not sold, it was LMA'ed, meaning, in lay terms, that it was rented. And Movin was a general market station, while KSSE is directed at a subset, often bought in its own universe.

-ALL the local Entravision radio stations still have a link to "Indie" on their websites (meaning Entravision isn't giving up on Indie???)

All the Entravision stations in every market link to all the others in that market. As long as they run Indie, I would immagine they will link to it.

--The New Spanish KMVN might suck the ratings dry of KSSE

That new format is to the older side of KLVE, with oldies going back to 1970. I can't see how it might affect KSSE at all.

 

[radiojomo]

However, since the departure of the terrestrial radio broadcast, there are rumors that the station's owner Entravision will return the station to the LA radio airwaves via its old signal at 103.1 or on KSSE 107.1 (the sister station of KDLD hosting a Spanish CHR format that is currently low rated) because the stream of Indie 103.1 online has been surpassing other terrestrial radio stations in LA.

That's inaccurate data. In the last 6 books in LA, only two streamed terrestrial stations have made the book, KROQ and KOST. Indie's stream does not make the book, and is not ahead of any rated terrestrial station in LA.

-KMVN (Movin' era) was about .6 above KSSE in the ratings and it was sold to Radio Centro

KMVN was not sold, it was LMA'ed, meaning, in lay terms, that it was rented. And Movin was a general market station, while KSSE is directed at a subset, often bought in its own universe.

-ALL the local Entravision radio stations still have a link to "Indie" on their websites (meaning Entravision isn't giving up on Indie???)

All the Entravision stations in every market link to all the others in that market. As long as they run Indie, I would immagine they will link to it.

--The New Spanish KMVN might suck the ratings dry of KSSE

That new format is to the older side of KLVE, with oldies going back to 1970. I can't see how it might affect KSSE at all.

Indie's stream is NO longer dated in the local Arbitron ratings because it is not the online stream of a terrestrial radio station. Arbitron may date this in the ratings books but the stream is considered a national tally instead of a local tally. The stream can be heard from ANYWHERE in the book showing that someone in Dallas can log in the station as someone would here.

KMVN OBVIOUSLY WAS LMA-ED because it wasn't making any money! It was my mistake to say it was sold but OBVIOUSLY the station did this because it wasn't making any money because of it's low ratings.

The new KMVN might affect KSSE because although KSSE is Spanish AC, KMVN still plays pop hits that are heard on KSSE. Just compare the playlists! Although it might not be KLSX-->KIIS comparisons, the station can still take listeners of not only KLVE and KSSE but of all the Spanish stations in Los Angeles. You should know that adding a station to the airwaves can be a threat to ANY station, even if the audiences aren't the targets.

About the Indie link, I was just saying. If the company was REALLY in debt and REALLY in need to save money as it's been stated, why would they still be operating Indie if it wasn't going to be used for something later? It still costs money for Entravision to stream Indie (not as much) so obviously Entravision knows that Indie is still something to keep valuable.

I have a good feeling that if Indie was moved to the 107.1 frequency, it would do way better than most LA stations. The only reason it shut down was because of the signal! The weak signal= listeners not willing to do deal with it.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

[/quote]


I have a good feeling that if Indie was moved to the 107.1 frequency, it would do way better than most LA stations. The only reason it shut down was because of the signal! The weak signal= listeners not willing to do deal with it.

[/quote]

That is SO not true. In the ZIP CODE areas where "Indie" was strong, stations like KROQ were killing "Indie" by a wide margin. David should be able to confirm this.

If you listen to dire hard Indie fans speak, they would state the following downright false or unverifiable reasons for Indie's failure.

1. Arbitron is inaacurate.
2. Few Indie listeners (or KCRW 'music programming' listners) would be caught dead wearing a PPM device.
3. Indie has a lousy signal.
4. "Every one I konw, listens to Indie"....Aribtron never asks my friends or myself for that matter.
5. Go to a concert, when the emcee mentions "Indie", the crowd goes wild...They just don't fill out a diary.

Before ANYONE says I hate INDIE, let me state that it's not true. I just don't think that Indie was appealing to an adequate percentage of the LA audience.

 

[davideduardo]

Indie's stream is NO longer dated in the local Arbitron ratings because it is not the online stream of a terrestrial radio station. Arbitron may date this in the ratings books but the stream is considered a national tally instead of a local tally. The stream can be heard from ANYWHERE in the book showing that someone in Dallas can log in the station as someone would here.

KDLD HD-2 carries the Indie programming, so the stream can be encoded and will be shown in the PPM ratings for any PPM market.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dated" but I am assuming it's a typo for "rated." In any case, listening in Dallas by Dallas market residents is reported in the Dallas ratings book, not in the point of origin; radio ratings are by market, not by station origin.

In fact, encoding can include things like storecasts, too.

There is not a real market for single streaming stations outside of the home markets; whether Indie gets any listening elsewhere is irrelevant at this point.

The new KMVN might affect KSSE because although KSSE is Spanish AC,

KSSE is Spanish language CHR. It is not AC.

KMVN still plays pop hits that are heard on KSSE. Just compare the playlists!

Yes, the overlap is minimal... a couple of songs. Every Spanish language station overlaps with a number of other stations... KRCD overlaps some with KLVE and with KSCA, KLYY, KBUE, KLAX, KHJ, KWIZ, etc. And so on... but that does not make KRCD a regional Mexican station or an AC station, either.

Just like in Country to Pop, there are crossovers.

Although it might not be KLSX-->KIIS comparisons, the station can still take listeners of not only KLVE and KSSE but of all the Spanish stations in Los Angeles.

It's highly unlikely that listeners to KMVN would have any interest in KLAX, for example. The effect is minimal, and only due to the ebb and flow of the finite 100 shares in LA.

You should know that adding a station to the airwaves can be a threat to ANY station, even if the audiences aren't the targets.

There was no new station added to the airways... just a format change.

About the Indie link, I was just saying. If the company was REALLY in debt and REALLY in need to save money as it's been stated, why would they still be operating Indie if it wasn't going to be used for something later? It still costs money for Entravision to stream Indie (not as much) so obviously Entravision knows that Indie is still something to keep valuabl

The costs are minimal; you can see Entravision's financials online, as it is a public corporation. Almost all companies have debt, so that is not unusual. And that company did recently trim staff and salaries. But the cost is an insignificant expense, and it also serves ass the content on the HD 2 channel so the expense is justifiable.

I have a good feeling that if Indie was moved to the 107.1 frequency, it would do way better than most LA stations. The only reason it shut down was because of the signal! The weak signal= listeners not willing to do deal with it.

It lost to KROQ even in the areas where it had a good signal.

 

[davideduardo]

Indie's stream is NO longer dated in the local Arbitron ratings because it is not the online stream of a terrestrial radio station. Arbitron may date this in the ratings books but the stream is considered a national tally instead of a local tally.

As a follow up, and because it's a subject of interest, here is what Arbitron will encode... and how each is designated.

AM Analog AM station WAAA-AM
FM Analog FM station WBBB-FM
HA Digital AM station (HD1) WAAA-HA
HF Digital FM station (CHD1) WBBB-HF
IA Internet stream of an AM station WAAA-IA
IF Internet stream of an FM station WBBB-IF
F2, F3…F9 HD-multicast station WBBB-F2, WBBB-F3
G2, G3… G9 The Internet stream of an HD-multicast station
WBBB-G2, WBBB-G3 The Internet stream of an HD-multicast station

So, the stream of an HD-2 channel is considered the stream of a legitimate licnesed station, and, thus encodable and reportable.

Source, Page 5 of the Encoding Handbook at http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/ppm_encoding_handbook.pdf

 

[radiojomo]

Indie's stream is NO longer dated in the local Arbitron ratings because it is not the online stream of a terrestrial radio station. Arbitron may date this in the ratings books but the stream is considered a national tally instead of a local tally.

As a follow up, and because it's a subject of interest, here is what Arbitron will encode... and how each is designated.

AM Analog AM station WAAA-AM
FM Analog FM station WBBB-FM
HA Digital AM station (HD1) WAAA-HA
HF Digital FM station (CHD1) WBBB-HF
IA Internet stream of an AM station WAAA-IA
IF Internet stream of an FM station WBBB-IF
F2, F3…F9 HD-multicast station WBBB-F2, WBBB-F3
G2, G3… G9 The Internet stream of an HD-multicast station
WBBB-G2, WBBB-G3 The Internet stream of an HD-multicast station

So, the stream of an HD-2 channel is considered the stream of a legitimate licnesed station, and, thus encodable and reportable.

Source, Page 5 of the Encoding Handbook at http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/ppm_encoding_handbook.pdf

AS far as i know and I have heard on my HD radio, Indie is NOT carried on the HD-2 channel. A Dance format is carried on the 103.1-HD 2 frequency. Indie is ONLINE only.

 

[davideduardo]

AS far as i know and I have heard on my HD radio, Indie is NOT carried on the HD-2 channel. A Dance format is carried on the 103.1-HD 2 frequency. Indie is ONLINE only.

Arbitron and other sources show a KDLD HD as alternative; perhaps they have HD2 and HD3. Even BIA lists the HD channel as alternative, with the Indie 103.1.com web address.

 

[radiojomo]

Indie's stream is NO longer dated in the local Arbitron ratings because it is not the online stream of a terrestrial radio station. Arbitron may date this in the ratings books but the stream is considered a national tally instead of a local tally. The stream can be heard from ANYWHERE in the book showing that someone in Dallas can log in the station as someone would here.

KDLD HD-2 carries the Indie programming, so the stream can be encoded and will be shown in the PPM ratings for any PPM market.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dated" but I am assuming it's a typo for "rated." In any case, listening in Dallas by Dallas market residents is reported in the Dallas ratings book, not in the point of origin; radio ratings are by market, not by station origin.

In fact, encoding can include things like storecasts, too.

There is not a real market for single streaming stations outside of the home markets; whether Indie gets any listening elsewhere is irrelevant at this point.

The new KMVN might affect KSSE because although KSSE is Spanish AC,

KSSE is Spanish language CHR. It is not AC.

KMVN still plays pop hits that are heard on KSSE. Just compare the playlists!

Yes, the overlap is minimal... a couple of songs. Every Spanish language station overlaps with a number of other stations... KRCD overlaps some with KLVE and with KSCA, KLYY, KBUE, KLAX, KHJ, KWIZ, etc. And so on... but that does not make KRCD a regional Mexican station or an AC station, either.

Just like in Country to Pop, there are crossovers.

Although it might not be KLSX-->KIIS comparisons, the station can still take listeners of not only KLVE and KSSE but of all the Spanish stations in Los Angeles.

It's highly unlikely that listeners to KMVN would have any interest in KLAX, for example. The effect is minimal, and only due to the ebb and flow of the finite 100 shares in LA.

You should know that adding a station to the airwaves can be a threat to ANY station, even if the audiences aren't the targets.

There was no new station added to the airways... just a format change.

About the Indie link, I was just saying. If the company was REALLY in debt and REALLY in need to save money as it's been stated, why would they still be operating Indie if it wasn't going to be used for something later? It still costs money for Entravision to stream Indie (not as much) so obviously Entravision knows that Indie is still something to keep valuabl

The costs are minimal; you can see Entravision's financials online, as it is a public corporation. Almost all companies have debt, so that is not unusual. And that company did recently trim staff and salaries. But the cost is an insignificant expense, and it also serves ass the content on the HD 2 channel so the expense is justifiable.

I have a good feeling that if Indie was moved to the 107.1 frequency, it would do way better than most LA stations. The only reason it shut down was because of the signal! The weak signal= listeners not willing to do deal with it.

It lost to KROQ even in the areas where it had a good signal.

Obviously, no alternative station is close to beating KROQ. But Indie possibly would have gone farther in the ratings if it had a clear signal. You can't deny that factor. The signal had always been a disadvantage to KDLD and can still possibly be a disadvantage to the Mexican format on KDLD. But about the possible KSSE and KMVN battle, wait until the Arbitron ratings publish, that's all I can say. The reason I had said that the ratings of KSSE can go lower is because of the common pop factor. Sorry for all the typos, but I know that KMVN is not a Spanish Hot AC.
All I know is that KMVN's switch to Spanish AC was a very smart move by Radio Centro and that Entravision with the addition of another Regional Mexican format will affect the whole Spanish broadcasting environment of LA.
By the way, if you haven't noticed, KDLD seems to be playing a more rhythmic Regional Mexican format with more cumbias than all the other Regional Mexican stations which is attracting a younger crowd which might possibly bring more listeners to the sister station of KSSE.

 

[radiojomo]

AS far as i know and I have heard on my HD radio, Indie is NOT carried on the HD-2 channel. A Dance format is carried on the 103.1-HD 2 frequency. Indie is ONLINE only.

Arbitron and other sources show a KDLD HD as alternative; perhaps they have HD2 and HD3. Even BIA lists the HD channel as alternative, with the Indie 103.1.com web address.

The BIA must not be updated. Just like the Arbitron file for KMVN still lists it as Rhythmic AC. KDLD only has an HD 2 and the signal of the station is still weak.
This might also be a sign that the company has decided to move Indie to an HD-2 channel on the 103.1 frequency. Good Heads Up David!

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I have a good feeling that if Indie was moved to the 107.1 frequency, it would do way better than most LA stations. The only reason it shut down was because of the signal! The weak signal= listeners not willing to do deal with it.

[/quote]

That is SO not true. In the ZIP CODE areas where "Indie" was strong, stations like KROQ were killing "Indie" by a wide margin. David should be able to confirm this.

If you listen to dire hard Indie fans speak, they would state the following downright false or unverifiable reasons for Indie's failure.

1. Arbitron is inaacurate.
2. Few Indie listeners (or KCRW 'music programming' listners) would be caught dead wearing a PPM device.
3. Indie has a lousy signal.
4. "Every one I konw, listens to Indie"....Aribtron never asks my friends or myself for that matter.
5. Go to a concert, when the emcee mentions "Indie", the crowd goes wild...They just don't fill out a diary.

Before ANYONE says I hate INDIE, let me state that it's not true. I just don't think that Indie was appealing to an adequate percentage of the LA audience.


[/quote]

Right - the people who listen to KROQ will wear a PPM device and get appropriately measured but those that listen to Indie are just WAY too cool to be associated with the thing.

What part of this do they not understand?

KROQ kicks Indie's butt in Diary
KROQ kicks Indie's butt in PPM
KROQ kicks Indie's butt over the entire metro
KROQ kicks Indie's butt in the zip codes that cover Indie's coverage area

KROQ kicks Indie's butt nine ways to Sunday. Deal with the fact that it was a niche station with exceedingly low listenership. If you are a fan, congratulations, you are probably the coolest cat in the room. Just a cat with no radio station due to low ratings.

 

[OCradiodude]

Huh? Indie coming back to 107.1? I highly doubt that. Do you realize how Indie was formatted? Loads and loads of speciality programing. They needed an actual "format" to be declared a station. Just one reason that they were cut. Other reasons were that there wasn't enough money being made, no ratings, staffing issues, etc.

If anything El Gato will simulcast on 107.1.

 

[davideduardo]

The BIA must not be updated. Just like the Arbitron file for KMVN still lists it as Rhythmic AC. KDLD only has an HD 2 and the signal of the station is still weak.

BIA us updated daily.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

-KLSX has departed and the rumors about The Sound departing might bring in more listeners than before?

What rumors about The Sound departing??? We all know KSWD is ratings-challenged and its just a matter of time given the demographic realities they face, but 'rumors' usually mean something's in the air sooner rather than later.

As far as Indie goes, I seriously doubt they'll be back especially as they were. Again Indie faces the same problems The Sound faces but with a far inferior signal to boot.

 

[engineer65]

Indie's stream is NO longer dated in the local Arbitron ratings because it is not the online stream of a terrestrial radio station. Arbitron may date this in the ratings books but the stream is considered a national tally instead of a local tally. The stream can be heard from ANYWHERE in the book showing that someone in Dallas can log in the station as someone would here.

KDLD HD-2 carries the Indie programming, so the stream can be encoded and will be shown in the PPM ratings for any PPM market.

Indie is not on KDLD HD2.

 

[davideduardo]

Indie is not on KDLD HD2.

Then someone has misinformed Arbitron and various industry sources... the HD2 is listed as "Alternative."

The next question is whether the HD2 on KDLD and KDLE are different. Carriage on just one would be enough to qualify for encoding of the stream.

 

[socamex26]

Indie is not on KDLD HD2.

Then someone has misinformed Arbitron and various industry sources... the HD2 is listed as "Alternative."

The next question is whether the HD2 on KDLD and KDLE are different. Carriage on just one would be enough to qualify for encoding of the stream.

KDLD AND KDLE HD2 are both Dance music. I was driving through Irvine up to Santa Monica yesterday. I have an HD radio, and they were blasting the same loop cd of dance music lol. I just wanted to clarified that with everyone on here.

 

[radiojomo]

Huh? Indie coming back to 107.1? I highly doubt that. Do you realize how Indie was formatted? Loads and loads of speciality programing. They needed an actual "format" to be declared a station. Just one reason that they were cut. Other reasons were that there wasn't enough money being made, no ratings, staffing issues, etc.

If anything El Gato will simulcast on 107.1.

In the final months as a station, look at all the shows that were cut from the lineup. The station was focusing more on playing "overall playlist" music than specialty shows. Notice this and the increase of ratings before the station switched to El Gato.

 

[radiojomo]

-KLSX has departed and the rumors about The Sound departing might bring in more listeners than before?

What rumors about The Sound departing??? We all know KSWD is ratings-challenged and its just a matter of time given the demographic realities they face, but 'rumors' usually mean something's in the air sooner rather than later.

As far as Indie goes, I seriously doubt they'll be back especially as they were. Again Indie faces the same problems The Sound faces but with a far inferior signal to boot.

Exactly! If you were to ask which station's next on the chopping block, they would most obviously answer either KSWD or KSSE or KXOL. That's the rumor. Don't tell me that if Indie had a better signal it would not do better than it was doing. The signal was crap. Even if you're near the transmitter, the station's STILL blurry! I used to listen from Newport Beach and it would come in and out. PLUS, Indie was making money! The costs of running the station must have been high because they hired more on-air deejays than most LA area radio stations but they hung on for 5 years! Even after Entravision acquired the station full on from Clear Channel, they kept it from flipping to Spanish. Indie had the listeners willing to listen but the signal was too weak!

 

[radiojomo]

KBZT in San Diego is the number one rock station in the market beating out XTRA and KIOZ. The station has a great signal, can be heard as far as Irvine, and had a very similar format to Indie minus as many specialty shows. The "indie" sounding format works as long as you have the tools to run it.