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Interested in opinions from radio experts :)



Get this, pal. It isn't about what LISTENERS want. It's only about what ADVERTISERS and their willing accomplices want.

Listeners count for squat. Doubt that?

[/quote]

really? cuz most radio works like this: whoever has the most listeners can charge the highest ad rates.......so (this gets complicated now), if you have the most listeners and can charge the highest ratest generates the most revenue.

(pretty simple really)


any moron who thinks all corporate radio is a conspiracy between what radio WANTS TO DO and then some how gets advertisers play along needs to get out of radio

and if that is u please go do something else------with all the other choices out there now radio needs to move forward and leave all the disgruntled who couldn't cut it behind
 
No, let's try this again.

It's not about who has the most listeners.
It's about who has the most desirable listeners - listeners advertisers want to reach.
CPM=Cost per thousand.
A station can charge more for a thousand white males 18 to 34 than for a thousand white males 55 to 65.
Advertisers pay more to reach people who are more likely to buy their product and who are more likely to be heavy users of their product.
They also pay more to reach harder to reach people. Older people listen to radio more. Therefore, they are easier to reach. Therefore, advertisers pay less to reach them. Scarcity increases value.

Since when is a business an "accomplice" for giving the customer what it wants?
The advertiser is the customer.
The advertiser pays the piper.
You all got a free ride for 35 years of Oldies (plus 15 years before that of AM Top 40).
Stop whinning.
 
fred flintstone said:
You all got a free ride for 35 years of Oldies (plus 15 years before that of AM Top 40).
Stop whinning.


You tell 'em Fred! And remind them that satellite radio is as good or better than terrestrial radio ever was....................without commercials. Also remind today's '70s & '80s commercialmusic radio listeners that if they must listen to their music on radio, then satellite will be THEIR only choice in the not too distant fututre. Finally, remind anyone who still owns stock in commercial radio to call their brokers real quick!
 
TheFonz said:
fred flintstone said:
You all got a free ride for 35 years of Oldies (plus 15 years before that of AM Top 40).
Stop whinning.


You tell 'em Fred! And remind them that satellite radio is as good or better than terrestrial radio ever was....................without commercials. Also remind today's '70s & '80s commercialmusic radio listeners that if they must listen to their music on radio, then satellite will be THEIR only choice in the not too distant fututre. Finally, remind anyone who still owns stock in commercial radio to call their brokers real quick!

don't bother. all studies show terrestrial radio doing very well, in fact. both satellite radio companies are HEMMORAGING RED INK. within 5 yrs, look for one to buy the other
 
radiofriend1 said:
TheFonz said:
fred flintstone said:
You all got a free ride for 35 years of Oldies (plus 15 years before that of AM Top 40).
Stop whinning.


You tell 'em Fred! And remind them that satellite radio is as good or better than terrestrial radio ever was....................without commercials. Also remind today's '70s & '80s commercialmusic radio listeners that if they must listen to their music on radio, then satellite will be THEIR only choice in the not too distant fututre. Finally, remind anyone who still owns stock in commercial radio to call their brokers real quick!

don't bother. all studies show terrestrial radio doing very well, in fact. both satellite radio companies are HEMMORAGING RED INK. within 5 yrs, look for one to buy the other

Still, I wouldn't want to be working in a backward-looking medium like radio.

Look how they treat their people and staff their facilities with as few people earning as little income as possible...

The results are in their sound.
 
doug said:
radiofriend1 said:
TheFonz said:
fred flintstone said:
You all got a free ride for 35 years of Oldies (plus 15 years before that of AM Top 40).
Stop whinning.


You tell 'em Fred! And remind them that satellite radio is as good or better than terrestrial radio ever was....................without commercials. Also remind today's '70s & '80s commercialmusic radio listeners that if they must listen to their music on radio, then satellite will be THEIR only choice in the not too distant fututre. Finally, remind anyone who still owns stock in commercial radio to call their brokers real quick!

don't bother. all studies show terrestrial radio doing very well, in fact. both satellite radio companies are HEMMORAGING RED INK. within 5 yrs, look for one to buy the other

Still, I wouldn't want to be working in a backward-looking medium like radio.

Look how they treat their people and staff their facilities with as few people earning as little income as possible...

The results are in their sound.

fine. then don't. radio is better off. its funny how disgruntled radio hacks whine in one breath that radio has to compete with satellite and ipods and so on because they don't try new things THEN in the next breath piss n' moan because they're upset radio isn't like the good ole dayz

can't have it both ways boyz & girls
 
In a way, radio is like Burger King.

Imagine any highway in any major town in the country.
Drive down the highway and you pass a whole bunch of fast food restaurants.
Most of them sell hamburgers: McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's. Often you find more than one of each.
Maybe in there you will see one of two pizza joints, a KFC (or another chicken place), a Taco Bell.
It's very rare you see a place specializing in hot dogs.

Why all those hamburger joints and no hot dog joints?
Hamburger places make money.
And there's only room for so many restaurants along a strip.
Oldies are like hot dogs.
Some of you like hot dogs and think one of those fast food joints SHOULD sell hot dogs.
Maybe McDonald's could take one of their multiple restaurants along the strip and convert it to hotdogs, even though they would lose money.
Some of you think all the fast food places should get together and apportion the restaurants so there is a diversity of food choices along the stip (no hamburger stands competing with each other).
 
why is it such a tough nut to swallow for some that radio wants to make a profit? is it because they really think it's just play and art and generating revenue and (hopefully) a profit is evil?

i just don't get that.............in the ideal world it would all be just about the rock n' roll---- the life just doesn't work that way. who do they think is gonna pay for everything? what successful business (other than the airlines and satellite radio LOL) operates long-term without regard for profit for their employees & shareholders?

??? ??? ???
 
fred flintstone said:
No, let's try this again.

It's not about who has the most listeners.
It's about who has the most desirable listeners - listeners advertisers want to reach.
CPM=Cost per thousand.
A station can charge more for a thousand white males 18 to 34 than for a thousand white males 55 to 65.
Advertisers pay more to reach people who are more likely to buy their product and who are more likely to be heavy users of their product.
They also pay more to reach harder to reach people. Older people listen to radio more. Therefore, they are easier to reach. Therefore, advertisers pay less to reach them. Scarcity increases value.

Since when is a business an "accomplice" for giving the customer what it wants?
The advertiser is the customer.
The advertiser pays the piper.

Sometimes these things are easier to understand when we use plain old street language. Radio is the Pimp. The advertiser is the John. And the listener is the Ho. As the Ho gets older, she is no longer attractive to the John. So the John asks the Pimp for a younger Ho. But the Pimp has trouble recruiting young Hos. They don't need a Pimp..................they do just fine by themselves. So the Pimp eventually looses his Johns, has his Cadillac Escapade repossessed, and is forced to use public transportation.
 
Wait a minute! I thought it had been established on this forum that older people spend LESS time listening and that was part of the reason that advertisers didn't go after them, that and the difficulty of changing the mindset.
 
semoochie said:
Wait a minute! I thought it had been established on this forum that older people spend LESS time listening and that was part of the reason that advertisers didn't go after them, that and the difficulty of changing the mindset.

No, they spend more time listening.
They buy less. That's a more important factor than established brand loyalties and purchase behavior. We are talking about empty nesters and retirees (no kids at home to buy stuff for) with established households. They do buy; but they need less and buy less as a rule (again, we are talking about patterns and statistics - not individuals).
Remember the 80/20 Rule: 20 per cent of customers account for 80 per cent of sales (per centages vary in different product categories but the principle applies - not all customers are equal). If you can sell someone who will buy your product several times a week or one who will buy once a month, which would you rather sell? In the context of direct sales, which customer are you more likely to spend time calling on? In the context of radio, which customer would you rather reach with your radio ads?
It's about return on investment: How much sales increase will result from every dollar spent in advertising.

There are some types of products that older consumers do buy more of and they are core target consumers in those product categories. But those products don't use radio much. Mostly because they can't afford to. So the other side of the coin is, these advertisers don't have big bucks to spend on radio and therefore radio stations would rather go after advertisers which do. In advertising sales, the 80/20 rule becomes the 99/01 rule.
 
fred flintstone said:
semoochie said:
Wait a minute! I thought it had been established on this forum that older people spend LESS time listening and that was part of the reason that advertisers didn't go after them, that and the difficulty of changing the mindset.

No, they spend more time listening.
They buy less. That's a more important factor than established brand loyalties and purchase behavior. We are talking about empty nesters and retirees (no kids at home to buy stuff for) with established households. They do buy; but they need less and buy less as a rule (again, we are talking about patterns and statistics - not individuals).
Remember the 80/20 Rule: 20 per cent of customers account for 80 per cent of sales (per centages vary in different product categories but the principle applies - not all customers are equal). If you can sell someone who will buy your product several times a week or one who will buy once a month, which would you rather sell? In the context of direct sales, which customer are you more likely to spend time calling on? In the context of radio, which customer would you rather reach with your radio ads?
It's about return on investment: How much sales increase will result from every dollar spent in advertising.

There are some types of products that older consumers do buy more of and they are core target consumers in those product categories. But those products don't use radio much. Mostly because they can't afford to. So the other side of the coin is, these advertisers don't have big bucks to spend on radio and therefore radio stations would rather go after advertisers which do. In advertising sales, the 80/20 rule becomes the 99/01 rule.

sorry but that is wrong. they indeed spend LESS time listening as they age. and as they get older they spend less on **fun** and more on personal health
 
Clarification: If people like the available programming less, they listen less. All things being equal, TSL is greater among older listeners.
 
fred flintstone said:
Clarification: If people like the available programming less, they listen less. All things being equal, TSL is greater among older listeners.

in theory, yes. but when u hit 60 and 65 the things that are important in your life change.

AND..........i will repeat this premise: advertisers and their agencies (radio tv newspaper) WANT MONEY. if there was that much MONEY to be made off 55 and older listeners, advertisers and their agencies would be all over it, squeezing every time out of them

so u can sit there and suppose this & that----these folks' business is totally dependant on their marketing and advertising and they know what they are doing. if the profit was their in older folks, they would go after them.

(note: this isn't new----think back to the sixties........there was ZERO advertising aimed at people over 55 then..........same with the seventies and the eighties)
 
radiofriend1 said:
(note: this isn't new----think back to the sixties........there was ZERO advertising aimed at people over 55 then..........same with the seventies and the eighties)

Yes, and I remember my grandparents and then my parents complaining about it.
But Baby Boomers tend to think: (1) It's all about us. (2) We will never be old or anything like our parents.

Not quite ZERO: There was Geritol.
For those who don't remember Geritol, think of Vitameatavegamin.
 
fred flintstone said:
radiofriend1 said:
(note: this isn't new----think back to the sixties........there was ZERO advertising aimed at people over 55 then..........same with the seventies and the eighties)

Yes, and I remember my grandparents and then my parents complaining about it.
But Baby Boomers tend to think: (1) It's all about us. (2) We will never be old or anything like our parents.

hey it sucks feeling you matter less and aren't important to advertisers----on the other hand we in radio are WAY too close to it for proper perspective. it's not like there are millions of 55+ people in america rising up against the advertising establishment or anything. they live their lives, they do their thing and if their station dropped the oldies format, THE SURVIVE AND MOVE ON and live out the rest of their life

it's the radio geeks that have the hardest time letting go.....................
 
radiofriend1 said:
hey it sucks feeling you matter less and aren't important to advertisers----on the other hand we in radio are WAY too close to it for proper perspective. it's not like there are millions of 55+ people in america rising up against the advertising establishment or anything. they live their lives, they do their thing and if their station dropped the oldies format, THE SURVIVE AND MOVE ON and live out the rest of their life

it's the radio geeks that have the hardest time letting go.....................
Yes, we do have a difficult time moving on, we survive and move on, but we sure do miss good radio
 
Anyacat said:
radiofriend1 said:
hey it sucks feeling you matter less and aren't important to advertisers----on the other hand we in radio are WAY too close to it for proper perspective. it's not like there are millions of 55+ people in america rising up against the advertising establishment or anything. they live their lives, they do their thing and if their station dropped the oldies format, THE SURVIVE AND MOVE ON and live out the rest of their life

it's the radio geeks that have the hardest time letting go.....................
Yes, we do have a difficult time moving on, we survive and move on, but we sure do miss good radio

how blessed we are to be in an age with so many alternatives..............20 yrs ago u were stuck with AM, FM or CD
 
radiofriend1 said:
how blessed we are to be in an age with so many alternatives..............20 yrs ago u were stuck with AM, FM or CD

You had CD in 1986? Most people still had casettes.
Amazing that an early adopter like you hasn't gotten satellite radio yet. Or an mp3 player.
 
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