Is Alternative dead and how can it go forward?

[Kelly A]

If you look at the demographic appeal based on age, the 90's ended twenty two years ago. Whereas I agree there are probably Gen-Z who like 90's music, technically it would be considered a form of Classic Rock, or potentially Oldies by now.

As I mentioned before; Gen-Z discover new artists and music from TikTok, YouTube, Facebook or whatever new on-line site. This whole flailing around wondering if Alt is still relevant to the modern audience? The answer is no. That doesn't mean younger audiences aren't influenced while riding with mom in the 'Family Truckster', but younger audiences don't seek out radio as a music influence, as many of you seem to believe.

 

[Greg Strickland]

Two thoughts:

1. Is a over the air radio format name something that appeals to an audience defined by age, disposition and lifestyle, or is a format name something that follows its original audience as that audience gets older?

2. Would a major market CHR play huge CHR hits from the '80s and '90s to add spice and flavor to the current hits in rotation?

My view- AAA and alternative hits from the '90s would logically be heard today on stations with format names that appeal to older folks 45+ I don't expect a station for 18-25 year old audience to play Black Hole Sun, Creep or The Reason, but I could hear them on an AC station, skillfully mixed into the flow arc of the format.

To my ears the songs I hear on the local alt/AAA format station have the same artistic expression heard on alternative stations in the '90s, made by today's young people in the music creating demo. That station is operated by expert, top shelf radio folks I trust are doing the right thing.

So basically it is all good. Go out and enjoy the day, spring is here and summer is on the way!

 

[macattack]

I don't consider punk to be alternative. I would put that more in the hard rock category. I guess that would depend on what generation of punk.

The punk rock of the late 1970's is partially what birthed the alternative format in the first place...

 

[Don CT]

The punk rock of the late 1970's is partially what birthed the alternative format in the first place...

What’s considered alternative today is nowhere close to punk.

 

[genius]

Alternative is far from dead. In fact aside from the Billie Eillish mess I think Alt music had a fantastic 2020 to be honest.

If you’re relying on a Corporate owned Alt station like Audacy then the music is going to suck just like their name sounds lol. Better off listening to SiriusXM’s Alt Nation or finding a strong independent like either WXRY or KEXP to be honest.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Alternative is far from dead. In fact aside from the Billie Eillish mess I think Alt music had a fantastic 2020 to be honest.

Alternative radio has a long history of playing female pop leaning artists. Before Billie Eilish it was Lorde. In the '90s, artists like Jewel, Cranberries and Tori Amos charted at Alternative. It was the combination of those kinds of artists alongside the harder rocking bands that defined Alternative radio. But then there were more labels, more programmers and less consolidation contributing to all that diversity. '

Compare that to now where you have two major radio companies running most of the major "Alt" stations. The majority of the music is now being supplied by three major labels and playlist decisions for the whole country being made by one top guy at each radio consolidator, one of whom rejects the idea of rock bands being part of the sound.

It's not Billie Eilish's fault. In fact, she's putting out some great music that surely fits the format but the diversity is disappearing. We have at least one Alt format head now who wants everything to fit into Billie's kind of alt-pop template which gets boring fast. There's too much programming power in the hands of too few players in the format now, that's what a lot of this boils down to.

 

[macattack]

Alternative radio has a long history of playing female pop leaning artists. Before Billie Eilish it was Lorde. In the '90s, artists like Jewel, Cranberries and Tori Amos charted at Alternative. It was the combination of those kinds of artists alongside the harder rocking bands that defined Alternative radio. But then there were more labels, more programmers and less consolidation contributing to all that diversity. '

Compare that to now where you have two major radio companies running most of the major "Alt" stations. The majority of the music is now being supplied by three major labels and playlist decisions for the whole country being made by one top guy at each radio consolidator, one of whom rejects the idea of rock bands being part of the sound.

It's not Billie Eilish's fault. In fact, she's putting out some great music that surely fits the format but the diversity is disappearing. We have at least one Alt format head now who wants everything to fit into Billie's kind of alt-pop template which gets boring fast. There's too much programming power in the hands of too few players in the format now, that's what a lot of this boils down to.

People have been complaining about Alt's diversity for as long as I've been listening to the format. I remember 2008-09 being particularly fraught as that was the period where Puddle of Mudd somehow resurrected and hit #1 with "Psycho", Metallica scored a top 5 hit, and AC/DC and GNR somehow made the Alternative chart. Not to mention the absolute HORROR that was the Christian rock band Anberlin hitting #1 with "Feel Good Drag", surely the format was dead because they let "a band of sky bully worshippers" hit #1! Somehow the format survived that and it should survive this unless something goes dreadfully wrong.

(For the record I think "Feel Good Drag" is a great song, that specific part of the paragraph was drenched in sarcasm)

However, I do think you're right in the sense that the format is in greater jeopardy now than it was back then. Audacy and iHeart having so much power and being on radically different paths makes it difficult for the format to generate consensus hits. Audacy was even reluctant to get on Imagine Dragons' song "Follow You", and that band has been as close to a sure thing as any Alt artist the last 10 years.

Meanwhile, the outliers like WEQX, XTRA, KFRR, and KPNT have more power than they did; I don't think bands like The Maine, Black Pistol Fire, The Pretty Reckless, and The Happy Fits (the last of whom is unsigned) would be charting this time last year like they are now. These stations have rallied behind a general alt-rock sound, even if they're not all playing the same artists. So we're seeing an increasing amount of alt-rock on the format, but iHeart is reluctant to touch them until they reach #15-20, and Audacy won't touch them at all.

If Audacy remains obstinate, how much longer will the labels keep pushing any artist that does not conform to Audacy's expectations if the absolute best case scenario is maybe #5? That's the real long-term toll this format may wind up dealing with.

 

[fordranger797]

My partner and I are both 26, and I think that we've aged out of the alternative target audience. The changes that have taken place on the alternative radio format have already been discussed Ad nauseam, so I won't make anyone listen to my own complaints, but I will make the claim that there is a growing irreconcilable divide in the alternative audience. My partner and I both listened to our local alternative station for newer bands/groups like The Black Keys, Young the Giant, The Head and the Heart, Lorde, Muse, Foo Fighters, The Revivalists, and many others. The format has changed quite a bit over the past decade, but I personally never had any gripe with it. I like hearing the 90's classics, so I'm glad that those stuck around, and while some of the bands cycled in and out, the overall sound never really changed. Hearing alternative radio in 2021 leaves a different feeling. We both listen, give some of the newer stuff a chance, but a lot of it just isn't for us. It's not to say that we don't like some of the new music coming out from the bands we recognize, but once the tiktok songs come out it's pretty much time to switch.

I get it; alternative radio as a format is forced to reinvent itself it it wants to remain relevant in 2021. With that being said, it seems like we're not the only people in our specific age bracket who are starting to move on from the format. If I said we were both 36, I would be the first to tell you that we probably just aged out of the demographic. Alternative is skewing to their youngest listeners it seems, and that might not be the worst strategy. If the advertisers want young listeners, the station is better off mixing in some of these newer "tiktok" songs, hoping that the slightly older listeners (like myself) will tolerate it well enough to stick around. Personally, I've found AAA radio to be a lot more "alternative" than what you are hearing on alternative radio stations in 2021. The only problem, of course, is that this is a niche format that skews significantly older. Not a problem for me, but most people around my age probably are probably too young for AAA radio as well.

 

[p_herring]

I live in NYC and, initially, when Alt 92.3 launched in 2017 it seemed like a well done version of the format intended to embrace the gold songs that people in their 20's/30's liked while nudging them towards new music they would enjoy (a lot of the indie folk, lighter pop/rock, etc). Recently, I've noticed the station has embraced a lot of the new hip-hop artists with an alt lean which is a kind of perplexing as that target audience doesn't seem likely to embrace traditional FM radio or have the buying power advertisers want.

 

[tall_guy1]

People have been complaining about Alt's diversity for as long as I've been listening to the format. I remember 2008-09 being particularly fraught as that was the period where Puddle of Mudd somehow resurrected and hit #1 with "Psycho", Metallica scored a top 5 hit, and AC/DC and GNR somehow made the Alternative chart. Not to mention the absolute HORROR that was the Christian rock band Anberlin hitting #1 with "Feel Good Drag", surely the format was dead because they let "a band of sky bully worshippers" hit #1! Somehow the format survived that and it should survive this unless something goes dreadfully wrong.

(For the record I think "Feel Good Drag" is a great song, that specific part of the paragraph was drenched in sarcasm)

However, I do think you're right in the sense that the format is in greater jeopardy now than it was back then. Audacy and iHeart having so much power and being on radically different paths makes it difficult for the format to generate consensus hits. Audacy was even reluctant to get on Imagine Dragons' song "Follow You", and that band has been as close to a sure thing as any Alt artist the last 10 years.

Meanwhile, the outliers like WEQX, XTRA, KFRR, and KPNT have more power than they did; I don't think bands like The Maine, Black Pistol Fire, The Pretty Reckless, and The Happy Fits (the last of whom is unsigned) would be charting this time last year like they are now. These stations have rallied behind a general alt-rock sound, even if they're not all playing the same artists. So we're seeing an increasing amount of alt-rock on the format, but iHeart is reluctant to touch them until they reach #15-20, and Audacy won't touch them at all.

If Audacy remains obstinate, how much longer will the labels keep pushing any artist that does not conform to Audacy's expectations if the absolute best case scenario is maybe #5? That's the real long-term toll this format may wind up dealing with.

Imagine if you will a pop radio company ignoring everything a legacy act like maroon 5 puts out.

 

[Don CT]

Imagine if you will a pop radio company ignoring everything a legacy act like maroon 5 puts out.

Most people should ignore what Maroon 5 puts out.

 

[macattack]

Most people should ignore what Maroon 5 puts out.

They should but they don't, even though Maroon 5 seems to get worse with every album.

That's why the TikTok songs, even the bad ones, get played.

 

[Don CT]

They should but they don't, even though Maroon 5 seems to get worse with every album.

That's why the TikTok songs, even the bad ones, get played.

I never listened to them other than what was on the radio but weren’t they a “heavier” sounding band in the beginning.

 

[macattack]

I never listened to them other than what was on the radio but weren’t they a “heavier” sounding band in the beginning.

Songs About Jane, the debut, was an alternative rock album with pop and funk influences. As time passed the rock and funk elements gradually decreased to the point where they're nonexistent today. They're a pure pop act at this point.

Anyway we're going off-topic and we probably shouldn't give Audacy any ideas here ahaha.

 

[boombox4]

To me, Alternative became just another flavor of pop or rock (you decide) when Pearl Jam was still "Alternative" in 1994 and they were the biggest band in the world and each one of their albums was multi-platinum. In other words, with numbers like that they were as mainstream as you could get. And you could have added to them a host of other acts that were played on mainstream rock as well as alt-rock stations, but were called "alternative".

I asked a radio expert at that time, "how can a band -- or a song for that matter -- be considered 'alternative' when it's a platinum seller and the artist is a household name?"

The answer was "Alternative is just a convenient label -- it's the way it's marketed by record companies." Or something like that.

 

[Don CT]

To me, Alternative became just another flavor of pop or rock (you decide) when Pearl Jam was still "Alternative" in 1994 and they were the biggest band in the world and each one of their albums was multi-platinum. In other words, with numbers like that they were as mainstream as you could get. And you could have added to them a host of other acts that were played on mainstream rock as well as alt-rock stations, but were called "alternative".

I asked a radio expert at that time, "how can a band -- or a song for that matter -- be considered 'alternative' when it's a platinum seller and the artist is a household name?"

The answer was "Alternative is just a convenient label -- it's the way it's marketed by record companies." Or something like that.

Alternative, metal, grunge, punk, are all forms of rock. Pearl Jam was played a lot on active rock stations.

 

[fordranger797]

The question still remains: what will alternative radio (specifically Audacy alternative) look like as we go forward? We've already touched on the fact that many of the "staple" artists of the format (like the Foo Fighters) are being phased out. I will be curious to see what that means for other artists. If The Head and the Heart, Lumineers, Revivalists (etc.) put out a new album, does that mean it might get ignored as well? It seems that the format is going to hold onto some of their gold tracks, but I'm not really sure that I see a ton of room for breaking new music by many of these staple artists. New music from Billie Eilish, and other tiktok contemporaries might take precedence.

 

[Don CT]

The question still remains: what will alternative radio (specifically Audacy alternative) look like as we go forward? We've already touched on the fact that many of the "staple" artists of the format (like the Foo Fighters) are being phased out. I will be curious to see what that means for other artists. If The Head and the Heart, Lumineers, Revivalists (etc.) put out a new album, does that mean it might get ignored as well? It seems that the format is going to hold onto some of their gold tracks, but I'm not really sure that I see a ton of room for breaking new music by many of these staple artists. New music from Billie Eilish, and other tiktok contemporaries might take precedence.

They might as well rename the format then and change the focus.

“Soft Alternative”

 

[macattack]

The question still remains: what will alternative radio (specifically Audacy alternative) look like as we go forward? We've already touched on the fact that many of the "staple" artists of the format (like the Foo Fighters) are being phased out. I will be curious to see what that means for other artists. If The Head and the Heart, Lumineers, Revivalists (etc.) put out a new album, does that mean it might get ignored as well? It seems that the format is going to hold onto some of their gold tracks, but I'm not really sure that I see a ton of room for breaking new music by many of these staple artists. New music from Billie Eilish, and other tiktok contemporaries might take precedence.

Audacy ignored "Follow You" by Imagine Dragons for the first couple of weeks of that song's release before seemingly begrudgingly getting behind it. So I would say a lot of artists from that era, especially those who have more of a "rock" sound, are potentially in trouble. For example, "Bed Head" by Manchester Orchestra, who has a similar sound to the artists you mentioned, is being ignored by Audacy currently. Rise Against and The Offspring, despite being adjacent to the pop-punk sound Audacy has gotten behind, are also being ignored.

"The Gold", which was Manchester Orchestra's previous Alt single, barely missed the top 10 in 2017, and Audacy (then Entercom) was permitting their stations to play it back then, so it shows that whatever the cutoff metric is, it's only by a few years.

Audacy got behind Twenty One Pilots' new single "Shy Away" immediately despite TOP nearly being as old as Imagine Dragons at this point, but that's probably because they're too big to ignore.

EDIT: A lot of high-profile Alt artists, old and new, are going for adds this month, and I think that'll paint a clear picture as to what is going to happen on Audacy stations and the rest of the format for the summer.

5/4 (Today):

Billie Eilish - "Your Power" (already rising fast on both Alt and pop; it's a soft acoustic number)
Cannons - "Bad Dream" (follow-up to their #1 "Fire For You"; synthpop)
cleopatrick - "FAMILY VAN" (alternative rock; this is also going for Active Rock adds today)
The Hunna - "Bad Place" (indie rock)

5/11:

Coldplay - "Higher Power" (Coldplay things)
K.Flay - "Four Letter Words" (indie pop)
Kings of Leon - "Echoing" (alternative rock)
Machine Gun Kelly - "love race (feat. Kellin Quinn)" (pop-punk)

5/18:

Joywave - "Every Window Is A Mirror" (indie rock)

5/25:

SUECO - "SOS (feat. Travis Barker)" (pop-punk)
WILLOW - "Transparent Soul (feat. Travis Barker)" (pop-punk, by Will Smith's daughter no less)

 

[narp]

I don’t really think we should worry about AUDACY alts too far into the future, especially since most of their ratings are pretty bad. iHearts on the other hand, those are probably staying for a while in their current state.