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Is Alternative dead and how can it go forward?
- Thread starter tall_guy1
- Start date
The Proclaimers' "(I'm Gonna Be) 500 Miles," perhaps?
My opinion on Billie Eilish is that she makes mainstream electro-pop but sometimes conjures a song that can fall into the “alternative” camp due to her left-of-center interpretation of the sound. Much like Metallica is a metal band that sometimes makes a song that falls under the “alternative” banner because they go left of center of their genre sometimes.
Neither artist is Alternative per se but they have made songs that can cross over to the format and its audience. They don’t do it consistently though, which is why their connection to Alternative is nebulous and always in dispute.
There was nothing mainstream about Billie Eilish until she came along!
There was nothing mainstream about Metallica either until they came along. Thanks for supporting my point.
WOW.....the list of alternative songs from the 70's and 80's that have been sampled and remixed by countless DJ's all over the world...
so what about nightclub DJ's that sample and remix songs from country, blues, and other formats around the globe, do they not count if played in a nightclub?
A sampled song is not the original.
When is the last time you heard a foo fighters song on the dance floor?
I don’t feel like we would have to be having these discussions if the 800 pound gorilla in the room called corporate radio didn’t erode everything down to the cheapest lowest common denominator.
Corporate radio is a lot more supportive of alternative than non-corporate radio. The 800-pound gorilla is the lack of support by the major corporate record labels, who are more interested in promoting pop music.
And that's largely because pop, especially rhythmic pop, is much easier to sell to a multicultural, multiracial nation -- which the US most certainly is now -- than alternative rock, whose consumers have largely been suburban, Caucasian and male (except for the blip-on-the-radar Lilith Fair phenomenon, which briefly made alt cool with women but alienated too many men to be allowed to exist long-term by the labels or radio).
That's not true at all. A lot of college stations today run indie/alternative formats that are broader, more adventurous and feature more new music than any corporate alternative station.
As for the situation with the major labels, the problem is that corporate radio is in bed with those big 3 majors and will barely look at anything outside of their walled garden of stale acts. There are tons of great artists putting out music right now that would have been labeled 'alternative' back in the day, but are called 'indie' now. They just aren't controlled by the big three record labels that have a near-monopoly on corporate radio playlists.
Also, remember back in the 90s when Alternative was really taking off the format leaders were not part of behemoth conglomerates like those that dominate corporate radio today. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 had not come along yet and the radio business still had a lot of different owners, program directors and creativity going for it. Consolidation killed all of that. Music radio is now like Walmart having killed off all the local businesses and interesting things they used to give to their communities.
That's a very different thing. They have nothing at risk. My comment was comparing commercial stations. But sure, given the situation, the future for the genre is on college radio.
Depends on the format. There are some formats, such as country, where indie labels thrive and get tons of radio airplay. The #1 song this week in country is by Jelly Roll, who had some success in alternative and rap, and then signed with an indie country label. They were able to work him up the charts to #1. Maybe the labels you're talking about don't know what they're doing or can't build consensus. But it can be done if artists and labels work together.
That's not true. First of all, the success alternative had was largely at pop radio. We have a thread about how alt was played on Z100 in the early 90s, and they were owned by Malrite, which was a major market radio owner. Then K-Rock went alternative, and they were owned by Infinity. The difference was that the music was better, and it was selling millions of copies. That dried up before consolidation took place. It all begins with good music and building strong fan bases who will support it.
Amazon is outselling WalMart. The internet has affected local retail and local radio. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Record labels are working a national platform today. Having lots of small local PDs won't move the meters when it comes to competing with TikTok and Spotify. Alternative musicians need to figure out the new marketplace, and aim for something bigger than playing small clubs.
And 95% of them are so esoteric or unfocused that they have little audience.
That is not true. It's very frequent in music meetings for the source (the label in other words) to not be mentioned.
Most major stations resent the constant pestering by labels, as they labels today provide very little to stations. We can't usually get name artists for promotions or events, you can't give away albums any more and the labels are obsessed with streaming play so they look at radio with a lot less interest than before.
The problem is that genres like alternative have little international sales potential. That's why Coachella this year is headlining Bad Bunny and not an alternative band. The big internationally owned labels see lots more potential in wide international acts than alternative rock or its derivatives.
But they have limited promotion and no solid backing. Stations are afraid of undocumented labels which may bring rights issues with them.
A hit is a hit. It does not matter what label it is on if the song is good. In fact, good songs today have a better chance of breaking via alternative media than ever. They problem is that those songs have limited appeal to groups that are too small for radio stations to address.
Alternative's biggest issue is that there are several non-compatible subsets within that marquee. And none are compatible with each other, either.
Actually, the Act allowed owners to have a set of stations where they could have some total leaders and some subset segments that complemented them. Nobody wanted the #10 station, so we had multiple AOR, CHR and AC stations. Now, if you could have #1, #3, #6, #8 and #11, you have a great cluster and you can do secondary formats like Hot AC or other derivatives. We have more format variety now than when it was one station per owner per band.
When I started in radio in what was then a Top 10 market, there were 3 Top 40, 3 MOR and 2 Black stations. Nothing else. Nobody wanted a secondary format then.
Oh, and the relaxation of ownership rules was due to the FCC licensing so many stations that half of all of them were not profitable int he early 90's.
And music genres that are not either huge in the US and Canada or big across many, many international markets, are not going to appeal to labels.
Reggaetón and Trap are big in the Latin American market and the domestic Hispanic market... more people than in the whole USA. So labels like the genre and see it crossing over with artists like Bad Bunny. Country is big enough to self-sustain, as is hip-hop even if the audience is fairly limited outside North America.
AC and CHR get play in many international markets, even if they content is in English. For example, Buenos Aires and Mexico City, with a total market of over 45 million just in those two towns, each have a half-dozen stations that play mostly or all English language CHR and pop hits.
Where is the potential for Alternative? Where does the music that fits AAA stations get played outside the USA?
A good parallel situation is seen in the auto industry. One of the larger car companies predicts that in four or five years, they will only produce trucks and SUVs. Not that there is no market for small sedans or sporty models, it is just that the market for those styles is shrinking and not profitable any more. Alternative is the small sedan of the music industry.
multiple times, and yes sampling does count, as i have been a nightclub DJ and gotten loud cheers for mixing in rock songs that get the floor packed.
show me a nightclub that hasn't thrown on "pour some sugar on me" or ac/dc "shook me all night long"
I'll bet your reference point is not in places like Miami or New Orleans or Houston... to name a few.
Atlanta, NAshville, Birmingham and orlando to be exact.
Three of the markets have changed and have become far more rhythmic and less rock-entrenched. That leaves Birmingham. I guess a club can toss in something that says "Macon" and get away with it.
my point is, yes, clubs have been known to play rock and have the floors packed out, those who say rock doesn't belong keep a closed mind and ear.
realistically, the most tone deaf people in radio are the ones who say rock is dead.
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