Is Dallas/FT. Worth AM'S Going Down the drain?

[davideduardo]

Find out who is behind homoginzed content.... and there's your tyrant.

Then it's the listeners who are "at fault" since the seem to only want to hear a well defined list of songs in any format or market.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Find out who is behind homoginzed content.... and there's your tyrant.

Then it's the listeners who are "at fault" since the seem to only want to hear a well defined list of songs in any format or market.

Wow David, I'm in shock! I agree 100%! Most listeners think they want a big playlist but it has to be only the songs THEY like or they're gone. They say bring back entertaining jocks but then complain about too much talk.

 

[scrtr84]

Find out who is behind homoginzed content.... and there's your tyrant.

Then it's the listeners who are "at fault" since the seem to only want to hear a well defined list of songs in any format or market.

Wow David, I'm in shock! I agree 100%! Most listeners think they want a big playlist but it has to be only the songs THEY like or they're gone. They say bring back entertaining jocks but then complain about too much talk.

By too much talk, are we including those 5, 6, 7 and the occasional 8+ minute commercial breaks? If you can keep a break under say 3 1/2 minutes max, including jock chatter, it can work. Actually I'd even say 2 1/2 minutes max.

 

[copydesk2]

You could do it like the Charley Jones show on KRLD, have short commercial breaks but many of them. It's almost impossible to tune in and not hear Charley saying, "John in Corsicana, can you hold on for just a minute? We have to go to a break."

 

[billyg]

I disagree. The stations need to be where their audience is. People who are in their 20s, 30s and 40s now won't switch to AM just because they reach their 50s and 60s.

I've seen this happen too many times: Almost every strong AM station I've seen over the years that begins simulcasting on an equally strong FM has had almost their entire AM audience move to FM in year or two. FM Simulcasting will eventfully kill off AM talk radio.

And unless Ibiquity gets its act together, make truckloads of cheap HD Rado decoder chips and get them into every new car stereo, jambox, receiver, clock radio etc on the market and then get stores to hype them like crazy, HD Radio will die a quick death, just like AM stereo did. Like HDTV, the FCC should have helped create a digital radio broadcasting standard where any manufacturer could build a HD Radio and not have to pay anything for licensing or decoder chips.

 

[scrtr84]

I disagree. The stations need to be where their audience is. People who are in their 20s, 30s and 40s now won't switch to AM just because they reach their 50s and 60s.

I've seen this happen too many times: Almost every strong AM station I've seen over the years that begins simulcasting on an equally strong FM has had almost their entire AM audience move to FM in year or two. FM Simulcasting will eventfully kill off AM talk radio.

And unless Ibiquity gets its act together, make truckloads of cheap HD Rado decoder chips and get them into every new car stereo, jambox, receiver, clock radio etc on the market and then get stores to hype them like crazy, HD Radio will die a quick death, just like AM stereo did. Like HDTV, the FCC should have helped create a digital radio broadcasting standard where any manufacturer could build a HD Radio and not have to pay anything for licensing or decoder chips.

Ibiquity's real problem, is the outrageous licensing fees for the use of their technology (sic). If I am not mistaken, the current going rate for broadcasters alone, is in six figure digit territory. Perhaps computer manufacturers should charge similar amounts for allowing stations to use the computers as on the air playback systems. Yes I am aware that there's a huge difference between supply and demand, but I think you can understand my point.

 

[jd]

Re: Are Dallas/FT. Worth AMs Going Down the drain?

First, XEDTL is licensed to Mexico, DF, Mexico and the location named is a transmitter site, not a real city of license.

...[XEEY] 660 is not in Zacatecas, it is in the state of Aguascalientes. Per the SCT, it is licenced to EL SAUZ II and the facility is: XEEY-AM 660 50.000 10.000. So the licensed operation is 10 kw at night.

I've noticed that the SCT has been listing stations by transmitter location in many cases apparently passing that info along to the FCC. That's probably what happened with the D.F. station. As for XEEY the FCC is showing two sites for them, one in Aguascalientes (50kW day/1.3kW night) and another in Japla, ZA (20kW day/1.0kW night). Maybe it's a case of an on-channel repeater or something, but in any event it looks like KSKY relied on FCC information (which we all know is suspect when it comes to Mexican stations, e.g., "notified" versus actual) and overlooked the operation in Aguascalientes.

The licensed day operation in Mexico is valid from 6 AM local time to 7 PM local time, all year round. So through 7 PM in December, when local sunset in Dallas may be before 5 PM, there are 2 hours when the Mexican stations are legally pumping out 50 kw each.

You make a good point, but one minor correction: sunset in Dallas doesn't occur before 5:00 in December, it's more like 5:15 (5:30 in November, 5:45 in January).

And they likely use the post-sunset operation prior to 7 PM in Mexico to do measurements so they could get a free FM.

Maybe, maybe not. But I agree with you on this one; despite the flaws in the KSKY application somehow it convinced the FCC that they needed "special relief." And at 775 watts the Dallas repeater on 92.9 isn't like a fill-in translator. It covers a lot of territory, so your reference to a "free FM" sums it up well.

 

[davideduardo]

Ibiquity's real problem, is the outrageous licensing fees for the use of their technology (sic). If I am not mistaken, the current going rate for broadcasters alone, is in six figure digit territory.

That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off on the high side. For a viable top-100 market station, the fee is minimal when compared to most budget items.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Are Dallas/FT. Worth AMs Going Down the drain?

As for XEEY the FCC is showing two sites for them, one in Aguascalientes (50kW day/1.3kW night) and another in Japla, ZA (20kW day/1.0kW night). Maybe it's a case of an on-channel repeater or something, but in any event it looks like KSKY relied on FCC information (which we all know is suspect when it comes to Mexican stations, e.g., "notified" versus actual) and overlooked the operation in Aguascalientes.

XEEY has been in Ags. for a long time... they may originally have been a move-in, but as far as i can go back with the Mexican media and ad industry directory, MPM, they are listed in Ags., Ags. The nearest point to Aguascalientes (city of, not state) in Zacatecas is over 60 km away, not a likely move in either. And the area of Zacatecas that surrounds Aguascalientes state is very rural and not a good radio market. I suspect faulty coordination or bad record keeping somewhere.

When I lived in Mexico CIty, I visited the 660 site, then XERPM. It ran 10 kw day, 5 kw night and had a two tower directional. In fact, that station is the flagship of one of the three major pre-music-and-news format radio in Mexico, RPM, Radio Programas de México. Together with XEW and XERCN (Radio Cadena Nacional) they provided NBC-CBS-ABC type programming for the nation.

 

[jd]

Re: Are Dallas/FT. Worth AMs Going Down the drain?

XEEY has been in Ags. for a long time...

I suspect faulty coordination or bad record keeping somewhere.

Exactly what I figure happened, too. That and creative engineering statements on KSKY's part.

When I lived in Mexico CIty, I visited the 660 site, then XERPM. It ran 10 kw day, 5 kw night and had a two tower directional.

I recall listening to XERPM years ago in the Dallas area, and it was a pretty decent signal. That was back in the real AM "clear-channel" days, long before KSKY even thought about getting nighttime authorization and you could still hear XEX really well since KKDA 730 had to sign off at sunset.

 

[scrtr84]

Ibiquity's real problem, is the outrageous licensing fees for the use of their technology (sic). If I am not mistaken, the current going rate for broadcasters alone, is in six figure digit territory.

That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off on the high side. For a viable top-100 market station, the fee is minimal when compared to most budget items.

Umm David, my understanding is Ibiquity's licensing fees for their equipment usage are annual for all the stations that have converted, and the licensing fees for stations that have not already converted, were continuously increasing as of the last time I checked. So to suggest these fees are minor to even top 100 markets, seems very absured to me.

 

[davideduardo]

Umm David, my understanding is Ibiquity's licensing fees for their equipment usage are annual for all the stations that have converted, and the licensing fees for stations that have not already converted, were continuously increasing as of the last time I checked. So to suggest these fees are minor to even top 100 markets, seems very absured to me.

iBiquity makes no equipment. Stations buy HD gear from BE, Harris, Nautel, etc. They license the technology usage only. And the fees, by the year, are nowhere near 6-figure amounts or you would have every HD facility in the US off the air in this economy. Even new stations, that don't have the early adopter rates pay relatively small amounts. Just guessing, I would think that anyone who wanted to add HD this year would be well treated, both by iBiquity and the equipment makers.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Are Dallas/FT. Worth AMs Going Down the drain?

XEEY has been in Ags. for a long time...

I suspect faulty coordination or bad record keeping somewhere.

Exactly what I figure happened, too. That and creative engineering statements on KSKY's part.

This sounds like there might be the same "secret ingredient" as contained in the KKHJ petition to return to the original KHJ calls on 930 in LA, despite not being eligable.

KKHJ, when spoken in Spanish, results in the two initial letters coming out as "caca" a term no doubt you are familiar with. The station appealed to the FCC to change their caca to a single "ca" and stated that "caca" was a Spanish term for excrement. The FCC bought in to this, and reauthorized the legendary KHJ calls...

The only problem was that KKHJ was called Radio Alegria on the air, and only used the calls once an hour for the legal ID... in English. They didn't mention that to the FCC, of course.

 

[scrtr84]

Umm David, my understanding is Ibiquity's licensing fees for their equipment usage are annual for all the stations that have converted, and the licensing fees for stations that have not already converted, were continuously increasing as of the last time I checked. So to suggest these fees are minor to even top 100 markets, seems very absured to me.

iBiquity makes no equipment. Stations buy HD gear from BE, Harris, Nautel, etc. They license the technology usage only. And the fees, by the year, are nowhere near 6-figure amounts or you would have every HD facility in the US off the air in this economy. Even new stations, that don't have the early adopter rates pay relatively small amounts. Just guessing, I would think that anyone who wanted to add HD this year would be well treated, both by iBiquity and the equipment makers.

Since you brought up the economy, WHY would any station invest any money into HD broadcasting in the current economic situation, given the fact it's already a flop? It really doesn't matter how much the licensing fees are at this point in time. What should be important is that the stations are wasting money converting to a non-mandatory system. Now is not the time to be throwing away money like that, especially considering all the staff layoffs we have been witnessing over the past year and a half. Just think, someone's job could have been spared by shutting down the HD signal(s).

 

[Mediafrog+]

Re: Are Dallas/FT. Worth AMs Going Down the drain?

When I lived in Mexico CIty, I visited the 660 site, then XERPM. It ran 10 kw day, 5 kw night and had a two tower directional.

I recall listening to XERPM years ago in the Dallas area, and it was a pretty decent signal. That was back in the real AM "clear-channel" days, long before KSKY even thought about getting nighttime authorization and you could still hear XEX really well since KKDA 730 had to sign off at sunset.

During the 1960's, the 660 in Mexico City was a nighttime regular at my (then) home in Austin. Rarely heard anything out of WNBC at that distance. Seem to recall that it was XERM then, and XERPM was a later call...have to dig out an old WRTH to check.

There were many Mexico City stations that made it into Texas decades ago, and not just the powerhouses like XEW, XEX, XEQ, and XEB.

 

[jd]

Following up on the talk about upgrades to area stations earlier in the thread, here's news on one that probably won't be happening. The FCC has dismissed the application of KTON 940 to move from Belton to Lancaster, filed back in October 2007. There was speculation that the station would become a BizRadio affiliate back then, but the proposal ran into a buzz saw when Citadel, owner of Oklahoma City station WKY 930 filed an objection; at 50,000 watts from a site near Royse City the proposed pattern was just too close for comfort.

KTON previously had an application at Belton that would have increased their power from 1,000 to 4,500 watts, putting a city grade signal over much of the Killeen/Fort Hood and Waco area. That was dismissed at the applicant's request and they pursued the Lancaster application instead. Now with that one dismissed at their request, what's next, back on the air from Belton?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

While some are powering up - others are powering down. A good example is KLIF. Now that I hear them from a distance, I can tell you that KLIF is a shadow of its former self. It used to be almost as strong as KLVI over parts of Northwest Houston. Now - very weak. The difference? IBOC. Plain and simple. WBAP played around with that nonsense, lost their large daytime footprint, and recently stopped it. Their daytime footprint is back.

Why should these stations care about listeners in Houston? They shouldn't. But - a weakness here on a good radio translates to a weakness on a cheap radio over part of their target market, something they should care about greatly! DFW (and radio in other markets) is going down the tube in part because of IBOC, because it severely limits coverage. Unlike C-Quam which never limited coverage (sorry David, I documented it.) Not only that, but when you tune a scanning radio on AM or FM - it locks onto noisy sidebands before it locks on a station. Then it locks on a noisy sideband when you leave a station. Not a good thing - it is really annoying, and people are going to tune out completely, going to iPods. If KLIF canned the IBOC, they would get their coverage over DFW back where it was. And their high band station illegally operating IBOC? All you hear in Houston is a 1700 from South Texas at night. And 1630 which doesn't run IBOC? Easy to receive at night. The difference? IBOC.

Ibiquity logic - to save AM increase the noise on the band and reduce analog coverage greatly. No wonder AM is going down the tubes - it was going down anyway, now we have this defective system that adds more noise to the band and dramatically reduces analog coverage. Just what AM needed.

 

[eskipper411]

Answer: The AM band has been slowly losing share for the last 30+ years to the FM band.

Over that time we've seen so many changes to the AM band in D/FW, from move-ins to new stations or substantial power increases. Some daytimers got full-time operation, too. By my count there have been 25 or so changes like that in a little over 20 years, but check these recent developments:

1110 KJSA (250-watt Mineral Wells daytimer on 1120 that switched to 1110 and
increased power to 20,000 watts; has a construction permit for
50,000 watts daytime)
1140 KHFX (was the 250-watt Cleburne station KCLE on 1120 which upgraded to
850 day/710 night then to 5,000 watts daytime; has an
application to increase their daytime power to 25,000 watts)
1220 KZEE (500-watt daytime Weatherford station that now has a CP to
increase power to 1,600 day/200 night)
1480 KNIT (just received approval to increase to 50,000 watts
daytime)

The entire AM band is going down the drain.

I guess we've got some people who are slow on the uptake.

I think the comment on the AM band going down to the drain refers to, outside KTCK, no AM station in this market has meaningful audience of people under 55. Since the AM dial had become largely the domain of talk and brokered programming, the future for it doesn't look great unless those trends somehow reverse and younger folks start flocking to it.

It's been discussed several times before, but a fairly large number of heritage AM signals in other markets have been migrating to FM to keep the brand viable for the future on a band that allows them exposure to under 55 audiences. Some of these AM facilities are stronger than the FM facility (i.e. KCBS 740 San Francisco adding FM simulcast KIFR 106.9; KSL Salt Lake City adding FM simulcast KSL-FM 102.7; etc.).

There are a whole lot of AMs in this market that have little or zero measurable audience -- KDFT 540, KMKI 620, KHSE 700, KJON 850, KFJZ 870, KTXV 890, KATH 910, KFCD 990, KGGR 1040, KJSA 1110, KHFX 1140, KVCE 1160, KFXR 1190, KZEE 1220, KMNY 1360, KTNO 1440, KCLE 1460, KNIT 1480, KRVA 1600, KKGM 1630. It would be hard to argue the AM dial isn't in trouble.

I am only 14 and I listen to AM! I am trying to start an AM Movement.

 

[amisdead]

While some are powering up - others are powering down. A good example is KLIF. Now that I hear them from a distance, I can tell you that KLIF is a shadow of its former self.

Who exactly is the audience in Northwest Houston that KLIF should be going after?

Ibiquity logic - to save AM increase the noise on the band and reduce analog coverage greatly. No wonder AM is going down the tubes - it was going down anyway, now we have this defective system that adds more noise to the band and dramatically reduces analog coverage.

It is pretty amazing how one person can be so wrong about basically everything. Also amazing: How you turn every post into an endless thumbsucker about the horrors of HD Radio. Life is short, give it a rest. There is barely anyone in the AM forest anyway...

 

[grantchester]

If you're driving up to Dallas from Houston you might want to tune in to a Dallas station to hear what's going on... if only for the traffic and weather. (I recall being amazed and delighted by the reach and the quality of the old WFAA-AM 590 back in the 'old days'.) If someone is listening to a station outiside of its defined market, they are more likely to listen if and when they reach that market, and actually count in an economic sense.
And if you are going to talk about the viability of the AM band, how can you NOT mention IBOC, a system that adds noise and subtracts coverage?
The AM band is a RESOURCE. It should be conserved as such. Rivers and railroads gave way to highways and air traffic, but still offer an economical and convenient transportation system. No one is saying we should rip out the rails or knock down the locks and dams.