Is there about to be another format flip for Cumulus-Nashville?

[courier37027]

Oh boy, twice the Skynyrd, Bad Company, Def Leppard that we heard the last 30 years on KDF, KQB, 104.5 The Fox, Rock at 105.9. Now we have not one, but two competing classic rockers in the same city. Bring on that limited playlist, that repetitive formula, all those Eagle Free Flights with thrity minutes of commercial-free rock. Woo hoo.

"The NEW Eagle 97.1, hello caller."

"Yeah, rock on, mahyan. Love the new station. Go Vawls. Hey, can y'all play some of that Bad Company 'Feel Like Makin' Love?' That song wuz playin' the first time mah woman and I made love."

"Thanks for the call. You got it. That's what we do at the NEW Eagle 97.1, play the same tired, overworn songs in another Eagle Free Flight of continuous classic rock."

Meanwhile listeneres are PAYING for satellite receivers and subscriptions to hear better and deeper rock album cuts. This should be a wake up call for terrestrial, free radio.

 

[SwissVol]

Oh boy, twice the Skynyrd, Bad Company, Def Leppard that we heard the last 30 years on KDF, KQB, 104.5 The Fox, Rock at 105.9. Now we have not one, but two competing classic rockers in the same city. Bring on that limited playlist, that repetitive formula, all those Eagle Free Flights with thrity minutes of commercial-free rock. Woo hoo.

"The NEW Eagle 97.1, hello caller."

"Yeah, rock on, mahyan. Love the new station. Go Vawls. Hey, can y'all play some of that Bad Company 'Feel Like Makin' Love?' That song wuz playin' the first time mah woman and I made love."

"Thanks for the call. You got it. That's what we do at the NEW Eagle 97.1, play the same tired, overworn songs in another Eagle Free Flight of continuous classic rock."

Meanwhile listeneres are PAYING for satellite receivers and subscriptions to hear better and deeper rock album cuts. This should be a wake up call for terrestrial, free radio.

Well, I have satellite (XM), mp3 music, but I dunno perhaps it is just this weird obsession about wanting a better rock station for Nashville again.

Anyway, I am sitting here listening to The James Gang: The Bomber. Think the Eagle 97.1 would dig that deep in the music library to pull that one out?

Looking on my playlist I have Led Zeppelin: Poor Tom, Uriah Heep Salisbury coming up. Wouldn't a playlist like that be nice to hear again on regular radio again?

 

[jetfli]

Apparently there are some of you who still don't understand what's going on, and you're not reading the previous posts on the subject. Okay, let me make this a little more clear. The new afternoon host, who has been going by "Mac" (a derivation of the first part of his last name), spent the last 14 years as afternoon host of Toledo's WXKR, a great classic rocker. Okay, now look up their website. What you see is a classic rock station with an attitude. That is exactly what Nashville does not currently have, and that's the point at which the same ol' - same 'ol Rock can get some competion. Or are you forgetting that the Rock once stole the classic rock show from another onetime status quo rocker?

 

[courier37027]

Jet, remember you are talking about Cumulus, where logic is absent and programming are left to suits in different cities. Autonomy in format and decision making? Nope. When The Rock at 105.9 signed on they played deeper cuts. Jack was broader based during its debut month. Eventually the 250 staple, recognizable format tunes will make themselves apparent. My advice to Mac: see Big Al and see your future. And rent an apartment during your stay here, which won't be long.

 

[deltas69]

please allow an old 56 year old jock to opine here..i could not tell much if any difference between the rock and 97.1 as far as playlist.i pretty much heard the same stuff on either boring dial position..well the rock does give away beer..always a plus with the freebird crowd..as far as talent, i long for the days of yesteryore..allan dennis,mac allan,dick kent, larry lujack, john landecker..etc when TALENT was the reason you listened..yea i know it was a long time ago, when WMAK AND WKDA AM were the top dogs..but people my age are not the same people our parents were at ,,uggh,,our age..and we do spend money..granted i have never bought a product because i heard it on any station..if i needed a car..i knew where to get one...didn't have to hear those god awful car ads thrown at me every stop set to go get one..or anything else. i suppose advertising works..otherwise there wouldn't be radio, tv..etc..but we do like the music we grew up with. i used to wonder when i worked at WFMG ..who the hell wants to listen to benny goodman? well..i suppose today's 25 year old pd's wonder who the hell wants to listen to the turtles ? looking back i now appreciate the immense talent the big band guys had..and just as that format about is as dead as the audience, i suppose someday when the boomers have passed,the 60's/70's music be buried along with us. i can see now that i got a wonderful, free, music appreciation course, while being paid literaly tens of dollars. for the life of me, i can not understand why mega paid suits get to fubar over and over again by turning out a pathetic product of the same 300 song playlist..we are not dead yet, and the right mix of greatest hits or whatever you may call it would be in the top five as far as i'm concerned...but you can't do it with the same 300 song record box....please understand, my comments are aimed at the rock side of the dial...not the dark side, and are worth little more than what you paid for them..LOL

 

[OldiesCat]

Jet, remember you are talking about Cumulus, where logic is absent and programming are left to suits in different cities. Autonomy in format and decision making? Nope. When The Rock at 105.9 signed on they played deeper cuts. Jack was broader based during its debut month. Eventually the 250 staple, recognizable format tunes will make themselves apparent.

Actually, most startup operations do just the opposite. They sign-on with a pretty tight, focused sized playlist to bring as much cume into the picture as quickly as possible, THEN slowly/gradually expand the playlist (to a point) with additional research, fine-tuning and so on.

It nearly never happens the way you describe.

 

[barnaby_wilde]

Well deltas69, I never dj'ed on the radio, but I'm 57 and I do remember when Nashville had radio personalities all over the dial and in all formats. And while formats may have started us to listen to a station, it was the personalites that kept us there. Radio jocks were larger than life and were listened to because they entertained us between records. Their passion for what they did was strong, and their personalities were diverse. AND THEY HAD PERSONALITIES! We had fun listening because they had fun working. Whether it was Noel Ball (cigar and all), Johnny Walker (the world's only psychedellic trumpet player), Scott Shannon (your leeeeeeedah!), Allen and Alan (Save Copperhill), Dr. Al Adams, or Captain Midnight (only good from midnight to six), John R (selling baby chicks), or Russ Spooner (you've just been Spoonerized!); they all performed. For that matter, even Dave Overton and the Waking Crew were great to listen to. Sometimes they were funny, sometimes wacky, and sometimes off-the-wall. Almost always professional, not too predictable, and not all just alike with a rehearsed sounding delivery. Oh, as for the music, we liked most of it -- but we didn't tune out if we didn't like a song. We listened because of our deejays! For a long time in Nashville, two stations played darn near the same music only 60 kilocycles apart, but their listener loyalty was intense. WMAK and WKDA loyalty was because of local talent and local promotions, and both stations had a lot of both. I would love to have an oldies station here again, provided it came with local radio personalities. Without talent, it would be no better than a big CD changer or an Ipod on shuffle mode. And, I can do that myself. End o' rant.

 

[courier37027]

OldiesCat, I'll make a dollar bet with you. Assuming a 97.1 format change to classic rock, let's log and sample the first three month's playlist. My hypothesis is classic rock is a recognizable format already (i.e. we already know most of the tunes). 97.1 will go deeper and broader for mass appeal and nostalgia (Mott the Hoople, Humble Pie, great but lesser recognized artists often heard on Wilde's Sunday show). Give it six months and I would bet 105.9 and 97.1 will match on 80% of the same 250-300 songs. Radio is no different from any product or service business. A new operation will promote, go above and beyond the call for business, and make some noise for its market splash. Service, product, listenership, patronage will reign supreme during this honeymoon. Then the market realities such as ratings, ads, profit will dictate next course of action. In 97.1's case it will be a tighter playlist called by Cumulus suits not in Nashville, I predict.

One radio example I cite are Jack. Jack started May 2005 as with almost all power gold, 80's and the like. They lured Star 97's demo with most of those tunes. Current hits were seldom to never played on Jack two years ago. They also separated themselves from the doo-wop genre formerly on their frequency, music relocated to Oldies 97.1. Now it is not uncommon to hear John Mayer, Nickelback and the current crop of artists on Jack.

I will concede some of your tight playlist and research take for one station. It seems Mix 92.9 adds new music only when an "American Idol" winner releases a CD or a chick movie soundtrack like "Titanic" hits the streets. Until then let's hear "Escape", "Hello, Is It Me You're Looking For?", Flashdance" and "This Old Heart of Mine" for the umpteenth time this week.

 

[OldiesCat]

OldiesCat, I'll make a dollar bet with you. Assuming a 97.1 format change to classic rock, let's log and sample the first three month's playlist. My hypothesis is classic rock is a recognizable format already (i.e. we already know most of the tunes). 97.1 will go deeper and broader for mass appeal and nostalgia (Mott the Hoople, Humble Pie, great but lesser recognized artists often heard on Wilde's Sunday show). Give it six months and I would bet 105.9 and 97.1 will match on 80% of the same 250-300 songs. Radio is no different from any product or service business. A new operation will promote, go above and beyond the call for business, and make some noise for its market splash. Service, product, listenership, patronage will reign supreme during this honeymoon. Then the market realities such as ratings, ads, profit will dictate next course of action. In 97.1's case it will be a tighter playlist called by Cumulus suits not in Nashville, I predict.

One radio example I cite are Jack. Jack started May 2005 as with almost all power gold, 80's and the like. They lured Star 97's demo with most of those tunes. Current hits were seldom to never played on Jack two years ago. They also separated themselves from the doo-wop genre formerly on their frequency, music relocated to Oldies 97.1. Now it is not uncommon to hear John Mayer, Nickelback and the current crop of artists on Jack.

I will concede some of your tight playlist and research take for one station. It seems Mix 92.9 adds new music only when an "American Idol" winner releases a CD or a chick movie soundtrack like "Titanic" hits the streets. Until then let's hear "Escape", "Hello, Is It Me You're Looking For?", Flashdance" and "This Old Heart of Mine" for the umpteenth time this week.

You're on!

But there's one caveat in this whole premise: stations who do start-ups RIGHT do it the way I described. The dogs of radio do it the other way (which, being Cumulus the topic of discussion, may actually happen).

 

[SwissVol]

It seems Mix 92.9 adds new music only when an "American Idol" winner releases a CD or a chick movie soundtrack like "Titanic" hits the streets. Until then let's hear "Escape", "Hello, Is It Me You're Looking For?", Flashdance" and "This Old Heart of Mine" for the umpteenth time this week.

Just my opinion here, but being a DJ on 92.9 could be suffering duty mainly out of fear that a Cindy Lauper tune might breal out at any moment.

 

[phineas1]

As an insider, I can tell you that the demise of WRQQ is not the fault of the ones who toiled there. Randy Railey was brought on board to do a "morning show in the afternoon" deal. He had the chops and the heritage (13 years at KSHE) to do the job. He was really starting to come along and get Nashville until he realized that control was being sucked from Nashville via Atlanta; he got a sales gig at KMOX and poof, he was gone. Al Brock had some great ideas about the playlist, the afternoon show and other areas of the station that were being worked on. I can tell you that Randy constantly said something about the rotation of the music, the staleness of the playlist and how there was no passion in the building and was ignored. If Cumulus would have left them alone (as was the original game plan when bringing Randy on), I think they were on to something. It's too bad that Cumulus pulled the plug on Al for doing exactly what Cumulus told him to do. said state of affairs, I really thought they were going to pull it off, silly me.

 

[deltas69]

i wondered what happened to randy..just dissapeared one day..figured it had to something as you mention, but since you are on the inside, can you explain to me..how do people get to the top of the decision making apparatus when they appear to be so stupid? it's as though they stepped out of a sealed room and have no idea about radio..maybe i'm not phraseing the question correctly...how do they get to make the decisions..when they don't have any of the correct answers? and when their decisions fall flat, they get to make another set of bad decisions..and apparently do not listen to their underlings who do understand what to do, while all the time makeing big $$$$...hope i asked that and made sense. i personally don't care one iota about country,pop,rap, ..i grew up working top 40/rock from the mid sixties through '88, and there's no doubt in my mind, i could format a top five station with music for people my age bracket..(i was born in '51, do the math)..people my age still like what they grew up with...i may be the biggest idiot for thinking i can do this..but until someone shows me it won't work..i'll stubbornly stick to my guns..it's like they powers that be think this is so intricate and sophisticated...and for my age bracket it's not..play it all..we'll listen..we like to keep it simple..we know what we like..and nashville ain't playing it. or am i just an old insane dj ??

 

[SwissVol]

I might short on radio savy and big on opinions, but to me ( and perhaps I am wrong), but to me it would be as simple as hey, lets bring the tunes in and guess what? Let's play theose tunes and hell, lets see what happens. It would either be the biggest radio flop in the history of Nashville radio or then again it might actually be crazy enough to work. Load those massive hard drives with tunes, let the DJs build their own playlists and with one magic click of the mouse, you have radio bliss. Crazy? Misguided?? Outside of the working understanding of radio??

 

[Tibbs4]

Swiss, to answer all of your question:

"yes." on all counts.

Let me make it a little for cleareror:

Would anyone hate me for playing rupert holmes songs for one solid hour every Friday afternoon at 5:14 ?

Yes.

 

[SwissVol]

Swiss, to answer all of your question:

"yes." on all counts.

Let me make it a little for cleareror:

Would anyone hate me for playing rupert holmes songs for one solid hour every Friday afternoon at 5:14 ?

Yes.

Well, oh well. I am reminding myself that I did ask wheew. oh well. LOLOLOL I got that big opinion kind of deal mastered though

 

[deltas69]

does rupert have enough songs to play for an hour ? ???.. i think what swiss meant was exactly what we did back in the 70's..we had a wooden box of current top 40 records, plus five "new music records", and a back room full of records classified as oldies, the collection of 10 years of playing. the format was simple, out of the news,weather,spot breaks..play upbeat, every third song was an oldie. we rotated the current songs, so as not to repeat what the jock in front just played, we picked our own music from the box and the back room...only two rules..never play two female artists back to back ,why i never knew, and nothing ultra hard til after 3 pm, IE: steppenwolf's the pusher...no one, including the pd, ever called and said..you play this at such and such, or tried to micro manage the music..we were considered smart enough to know how to flow the music, when to talk, when not to..the only bitchin was from the owners because we were sold out every month..and no more time to sell any more spots. 3.00 for a 60 sec spot, and we were billing 10 grand a month..yea thats, peanuts today, but in 1972, for a 1000 watt daytimer to bill that..was pretty impressive, especially with the station paid for...and i still say it will work today..just that simple..BUT..you need old pros who can walk in and do it without worrying about some suit in New York or L.A. telling you what to play..

 

[jetfli]

I can also vouch for phineas1's story. And as far as deltas69's question, "can you explain to me..how do people get to the top of the decision making apparatus when they appear to be so stupid?", well, usually it happens because they enter the family business.

In the meantime, I've been flipping over to 97.1 a lot more lately (but definetly AFTER 10 a.m.), checking to see if anything's going on, and from the spots I've heard, sure sounds like they've picked up the sleaze business 102.5/102.9 dropped when they cleaned up their act several months ago.

My basic premise about this cluster remains unchallenged: They can run 3 stations well. Unfortunately, they own 5. I'm sure any other owner in town would know what to do with those other 2. Perhaps they'd earn a better ROI if they sold the 2 stations instead of just holding them to keep another group from getting them...

 

[SwissVol]

As big of fan of the early "progressive rock" format I was, the name of Rupert Holmes must have gotten past me somehow. Is he related to Rupert Murdock? Just kidding unless someone thinks I am serious.

No what I was referring to was the early days of the progressive rock format. That name would later be changed to album rock but with more restrictive guidelines and so on.

What the early FM rock stations did back then was bring in boatloads of albums of artists that fit in with what they thought had a progressive sound. Many of those artists have now been packaged as Classic rock and are featured prominently in the classic rock format. In the early days though, artists such as New Riders of the Purple Sage or Richie Havens or even jazz man Miles Davis would be played. It was much more wide open.I know you older guys remember this format and you younger guys have heard we older guys talk about it. Deep Tracks or The Vault on satellite radio is the closest thing to that format that is out there right now. There are several Internet stations doing similar things as that also.

Many of those early progressive rock stations did not even have program directors. They had music directors who would bring the albums or records into the station music libraries. If it sounded cool, any cut off that album could be played.



These days, some stations have computer play lists right? I meant that large collections of the classic rock and early progressive rock libraries could be stored so the DJ could build his-her own playlists, providing the tune fit the station format.

I know those days have long since passed. My lack of understanding the rules and codes or modern radio would probably not allow such a format again. Or could it? Someone said that no PD would want to touch such a format that would operate in terms of what I just described.

I should have been a DJ, but with my luck, the station would have been changed to one of those bad eighties stations thus making life very unpleasant.

 

[SwissVol]

does rupert have enough songs to play for an hour ? ???.. i think what swiss meant was exactly what we did back in the 70's..we had a wooden box of current top 40 records, plus five "new music records", and a back room full of records classified as oldies, the collection of 10 years of playing. the format was simple, out of the news,weather,spot breaks..play upbeat, every third song was an oldie. we rotated the current songs, so as not to repeat what the jock in front just played, we picked our own music from the box and the back room...only two rules..never play two female artists back to back ,why i never knew, and nothing ultra hard til after 3 pm, IE: steppenwolf's the pusher...no one, including the pd, ever called and said..you play this at such and such, or tried to micro manage the music..we were considered smart enough to know how to flow the music, when to talk, when not to..the only bitchin was from the owners because we were sold out every month..and no more time to sell any more spots. 3.00 for a 60 sec spot, and we were billing 10 grand a month..yea thats, peanuts today, but in 1972, for a 1000 watt daytimer to bill that..was pretty impressive, especially with the station paid for...and i still say it will work today..just that simple..BUT..you need old pros who can walk in and do it without worrying about some suit in New York or L.A. telling you what to play..

And you mentioned that the jocks knew what to play and what NOT to play. Even progressive rock radio did not play Pink Floyd's Echoes at 8:30 in the morning. That song was just to trippy or freaky to be played at 8:30 in the morning;however, San Tropez from that same Pink Floyd album would flow really well for that time of the day. Even progressive rock radio had unwritten guidelines that the jocks knew about. You mentioned "The Pusher" Just one of many examples. But several Steppenwolf tunes would have flowed better before 3PM right? Renegade or maybe Ride With me. You get the idea.

I remember the later we got into the evening, the more adventuresome the music became.

 

[briancraig]

There is likely a difference between what people say they would want to hear on the radio and what they will really listen to. When Lee Abrams super tight playlist album rock format became common, it beat the "let the dj choose from 10,000 albums and create their own sets" rock stations in almost every market.