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OldiesCat
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briancraig said:
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Is there about to be another format flip for Cumulus-Nashville?
- Thread starter GETALIFELOSERS
- Start date
Quote
--No, there isn't.--
Oldies Cat, how do you know that is always true.
I heard the PD of WPLJ back in their AOR days say if you interview their audience they will tell you they never want to hear a hit single, want to hear deep cuts and never want to hear the same song twice in a week.
As you know (actually you probably don't know), WPLJ did a very hit oriented AOR format and ignored the audience's advice. I believe they beat the looser formatted WNEW in every New York Arbitron book.
--No, there isn't.--
Oldies Cat, how do you know that is always true.
I heard the PD of WPLJ back in their AOR days say if you interview their audience they will tell you they never want to hear a hit single, want to hear deep cuts and never want to hear the same song twice in a week.
As you know (actually you probably don't know), WPLJ did a very hit oriented AOR format and ignored the audience's advice. I believe they beat the looser formatted WNEW in every New York Arbitron book.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
briancraig said:
I know it's almost always true because I've been involved in dozens of research projects over the years. If you think you can operate a library-based format not playing the same song twice in a week, you're high. A station going by that advice would be 80% stiffs. Besides, the research I'm talking about isn't about "interviewing the audience"- it's about REAL RESEARCH. There's a pretty scientific approach to this that works and has for several decades for thousands of radio stations. Might be nice if you looked into this so you can be up on what you're talking about.
S
SwissVol
Guest
Oldies Cat said:
Oldiescat, u sound as though you know what you're talking about in this regard, but let me direct this question to you on this, but certainly anyone can jump in an opine here, but do you think a format like the XM Deep Tracks could work on terrestrial radio?
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phineas1
Guest
Apparently, the decision to segue from the oldies format to classic hits on WRQQ was NOT supposed to go as far as it did. When Randy was brought on, the talk was to do a classic hit/oldies format that would yes, play the hits, but also play some quality deep tracks. Randy was brought in help with the change but Cumulus wanted to go all classic hits. The playlist workups were quite interesting. But Cumulus gt cold feet and decided they could do a better job in Atlanta. I can tell you though, still being in the Cumulus building, Randy and Al were probably two of the best people I have ever worked with. Randy was a pure pro and saw the writing on the wall. Al Brock deserved better. There was so much potential there and it was blown sky high. 
There has to be something happening at Cumulus regarding 97.1. Their creative services director usually posts on these boards, especially when defending John Sebastian. C'mon JS, give us the scoop.
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OldiesCat
Guest
phineas1 said:Apparently, the decision to segue from the oldies format to classic hits on WRQQ was NOT supposed to go as far as it did. When Randy was brought on, the talk was to do a classic hit/oldies format that would yes, play the hits, but also play some quality deep tracks. Randy was brought in help with the change but Cumulus wanted to go all classic hits. The playlist workups were quite interesting. But Cumulus gt cold feet and decided they could do a better job in Atlanta. I can tell you though, still being in the Cumulus building, Randy and Al were probably two of the best people I have ever worked with. Randy was a pure pro and saw the writing on the wall. Al Brock deserved better. There was so much potential there and it was blown sky high.
Why act so surprised? This is Cumulus we're talking about here.
The creative services director you speak of has also left the building.
I resigned from Cumulus to concentrate more on my voice and production business and for a better opportunity to work with my good pal and former Star 97 PD, Scott Chase, who is running Saga/Clarksville as OM, and doing a great job I might add. Also up there are other former Star jocks Mark Allen and J.T. Daniels. We've got a nice place up there, everyone is so passionate, friendly, professional, hard working, and most of all nice, without any agendas other than doing radio.
As for what Cumulus is doing/has done with WRQQ, most of what you've read by others I can vouch for. I had been part of that cluster for over five years, and saw a LOT of change. I wish everyone there only the best, but it was time for me to make a positive change with my life and career, and I am glad I did.
As for Sebastian, it was an honor to work with him, and we still stay in touch. He's really not the person people (who never worked with him) painted him to be here. I find it funny that his name is still brought up when he's not been in the market for almost two years now.
Shell
shell at jack shell dot com
I resigned from Cumulus to concentrate more on my voice and production business and for a better opportunity to work with my good pal and former Star 97 PD, Scott Chase, who is running Saga/Clarksville as OM, and doing a great job I might add. Also up there are other former Star jocks Mark Allen and J.T. Daniels. We've got a nice place up there, everyone is so passionate, friendly, professional, hard working, and most of all nice, without any agendas other than doing radio.
As for what Cumulus is doing/has done with WRQQ, most of what you've read by others I can vouch for. I had been part of that cluster for over five years, and saw a LOT of change. I wish everyone there only the best, but it was time for me to make a positive change with my life and career, and I am glad I did.
As for Sebastian, it was an honor to work with him, and we still stay in touch. He's really not the person people (who never worked with him) painted him to be here. I find it funny that his name is still brought up when he's not been in the market for almost two years now.
Shell
shell at jack shell dot com
Jack ---
Music City misses your talent, although I have to admit that I love tuning into Q-108. As for Scott Chase, I have to agree...
When Star went from 80's to Hot AC, it was the best it ever sounded for all of a month before the powers of deaf radio screwed
it up into a Crumulus Yawnfest. It is truly sad that Clarksville has become the next step for great talent to go from Nashville.
Why has Crumulus' upper "management" been so blind to the flow of talent out the door? They are bleeding themselves dry.
How can they be happy with the average (or less) performance of these stations vs. the true potential? We're talking ten of
millions of lost potential revenue if they'd just be honest for a change and allow someone with friggin' passion and brains to
succeed without interference. What a waste. 97.1 ClassicsHits is the most boring radio station with the most burned out
music ever. Time for "I Shot the Sherriff" to play the 32nd time this week, yet?
Hey 'Cat. I think you might make a special consideration from your research findings for Crumulus. The ratings would increase if WRQQ played their crappy 82 song playlist only once a week and just turned the station off the rest of the time. LOL
Deep Cuts would not last long on real radio, sorry to admit.
Music City misses your talent, although I have to admit that I love tuning into Q-108. As for Scott Chase, I have to agree...
When Star went from 80's to Hot AC, it was the best it ever sounded for all of a month before the powers of deaf radio screwed
it up into a Crumulus Yawnfest. It is truly sad that Clarksville has become the next step for great talent to go from Nashville.
Why has Crumulus' upper "management" been so blind to the flow of talent out the door? They are bleeding themselves dry.
How can they be happy with the average (or less) performance of these stations vs. the true potential? We're talking ten of
millions of lost potential revenue if they'd just be honest for a change and allow someone with friggin' passion and brains to
succeed without interference. What a waste. 97.1 ClassicsHits is the most boring radio station with the most burned out
music ever. Time for "I Shot the Sherriff" to play the 32nd time this week, yet?
Hey 'Cat. I think you might make a special consideration from your research findings for Crumulus. The ratings would increase if WRQQ played their crappy 82 song playlist only once a week and just turned the station off the rest of the time. LOL
Deep Cuts would not last long on real radio, sorry to admit.
Said as it was said in days of yore: "The creative services director is dead. Long live Jack Shell!" *CLINK!*
Tibbs, I can tell you, not every corporate radio operation is run this way, and not every cluster within a corporation is run this way. But for a lot of corporate radio, it doesn't matter what is the flow of talent out the door, it doesn't matter what kind of music they play, and it doesn't matter what the potential is. All that matters is the formula handed down from corporate -- was ROI met? How much over were we?
You see, talent is overhead. Using round numbers for the sake of discussion, let's say my corporate station has a morning drive star I have to pay $100,000 (which in this case will include benefits). The corporate office says I have to be bringing in his/her cost multplied by the magic formula exponent. Let's just say that exponent is 10, so his/her show has to be bringing in the $100,000 he or she is costing me plus $1,000,000. Now, this could be the #1 morning show in the market, but if the show is only bringing in the $100,000 plus $500,000, then my ROI criteria is not being met. The company does not see this as making $500,000 on top of expenses, they see it as losing $500,000 because the ROI criteria was not met.
The next thing they want to know is, if we're only going to make $500,000, how can we make that much money with fewer expenses? So, they tell me to axe my #1-in-the-market morning star, and then find someone I can hire for $50,000 (to include benefits). Now since my last few books were great, thanks to my former morning star, I can still bill at the same rates for several months to come. So my expenses are $50,000 and I'm still bringing in the same $500,000, so I'm making that exponent of 10 work out now.
But wait... since I'm still billing at the same rate, I'm actually still recouping expenses as though my star is still working here. So where does that extra $50,000 go? Corporate bonuses of course! After all, it was corporate who thought of the idea of axing my morning star, so they get a bonus for cost-savings!
Of course, the cycle will repeat itself eventually as audience continues to decline, and then maybe I'll be told to bring in a syndicated show because they've made a corporate level deal for it. Then at some point, the corporation will use its formulas to determine my station needs to flip its format, and we'll start all over again...
Tibbs, I can tell you, not every corporate radio operation is run this way, and not every cluster within a corporation is run this way. But for a lot of corporate radio, it doesn't matter what is the flow of talent out the door, it doesn't matter what kind of music they play, and it doesn't matter what the potential is. All that matters is the formula handed down from corporate -- was ROI met? How much over were we?
You see, talent is overhead. Using round numbers for the sake of discussion, let's say my corporate station has a morning drive star I have to pay $100,000 (which in this case will include benefits). The corporate office says I have to be bringing in his/her cost multplied by the magic formula exponent. Let's just say that exponent is 10, so his/her show has to be bringing in the $100,000 he or she is costing me plus $1,000,000. Now, this could be the #1 morning show in the market, but if the show is only bringing in the $100,000 plus $500,000, then my ROI criteria is not being met. The company does not see this as making $500,000 on top of expenses, they see it as losing $500,000 because the ROI criteria was not met.
The next thing they want to know is, if we're only going to make $500,000, how can we make that much money with fewer expenses? So, they tell me to axe my #1-in-the-market morning star, and then find someone I can hire for $50,000 (to include benefits). Now since my last few books were great, thanks to my former morning star, I can still bill at the same rates for several months to come. So my expenses are $50,000 and I'm still bringing in the same $500,000, so I'm making that exponent of 10 work out now.
But wait... since I'm still billing at the same rate, I'm actually still recouping expenses as though my star is still working here. So where does that extra $50,000 go? Corporate bonuses of course! After all, it was corporate who thought of the idea of axing my morning star, so they get a bonus for cost-savings!
Of course, the cycle will repeat itself eventually as audience continues to decline, and then maybe I'll be told to bring in a syndicated show because they've made a corporate level deal for it. Then at some point, the corporation will use its formulas to determine my station needs to flip its format, and we'll start all over again...
A
ARDONAVINDA
Guest
I would love to have an oldies station here again, provided it came with local radio personalities. Without talent, it would be no better than a big CD changer or an Ipod on shuffle mode. And, I can do that myself. End o' rant.
[/quote]
If I had a shot at programing a Classic Top 40 format I would recreate the Top 40 style from the 60's & 70's, I'd use reverb on the air chain, order the vintage JAM/PAMS jingles, have heavy jock personality while still keeping the music flowing, not be afraid to go deep every now and then with the music, be out and about around town. Give aways, and other contests. Just make it a fun sounding station. When is the last time you could say terrestrial radio is FUN to listen to??? Even when Oldies 97.1 was on it played the same 200 songs over and over, the jocks weren't bad but the playlist was weak. I think a nostalgic angle could be refreshing. The boomers would have flashbacks and the younger generation that seems to like oldies, well it would be a new sounding presentation with a retro flavour to them. Alass I'm just a dreamer. Radio's major companies are run now by Wallstreet & stockholders and we all know Wallstreet doesn't like to take risks, it would be a risk for a major to try that. That's why an independant owner would be more likely to try a format like that because an independant owner has some room to take risks, they don't have consultants and corporate to tell them no. That's my take on what I'd like to do.
[/quote]
If I had a shot at programing a Classic Top 40 format I would recreate the Top 40 style from the 60's & 70's, I'd use reverb on the air chain, order the vintage JAM/PAMS jingles, have heavy jock personality while still keeping the music flowing, not be afraid to go deep every now and then with the music, be out and about around town. Give aways, and other contests. Just make it a fun sounding station. When is the last time you could say terrestrial radio is FUN to listen to??? Even when Oldies 97.1 was on it played the same 200 songs over and over, the jocks weren't bad but the playlist was weak. I think a nostalgic angle could be refreshing. The boomers would have flashbacks and the younger generation that seems to like oldies, well it would be a new sounding presentation with a retro flavour to them. Alass I'm just a dreamer. Radio's major companies are run now by Wallstreet & stockholders and we all know Wallstreet doesn't like to take risks, it would be a risk for a major to try that. That's why an independant owner would be more likely to try a format like that because an independant owner has some room to take risks, they don't have consultants and corporate to tell them no. That's my take on what I'd like to do.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
ARDONAVINDA said:
If I had a shot at programing a Classic Top 40 format I would recreate the Top 40 style from the 60's & 70's, I'd use reverb on the air chain, order the vintage JAM/PAMS jingles, have heavy jock personality while still keeping the music flowing, not be afraid to go deep every now and then with the music, be out and about around town. Give aways, and other contests. Just make it a fun sounding station. When is the last time you could say terrestrial radio is FUN to listen to??? Even when Oldies 97.1 was on it played the same 200 songs over and over, the jocks weren't bad but the playlist was weak. I think a nostalgic angle could be refreshing. The boomers would have flashbacks and the younger generation that seems to like oldies, well it would be a new sounding presentation with a retro flavour to them. Alass I'm just a dreamer. Radio's major companies are run now by Wallstreet & stockholders and we all know Wallstreet doesn't like to take risks, it would be a risk for a major to try that. That's why an independant owner would be more likely to try a format like that because an independant owner has some room to take risks, they don't have consultants and corporate to tell them no. That's my take on what I'd like to do.
[/quote]
Has nothing to do with Wall Street or taking chances. Over the past several years, listeners of stations like this have been very clear that they do NOT want a "way-back machine" for a radio station. THE MUSIC creates the nostalgia; they don't want heavy reverb, pukin' jocks and hype-ridden radio. Fun, upbeat, entertaining-sure. It's the spirit and the content from personalities that create the icing on the cake.
Why do so few of you get it? What they want out of their Oldies station (60s/70s, whatever) is their favorite MUSIC, not hollerin' top 5 @ 5 countdowns and "on this day in 1966" crap. Only radio people want that kind of radio.
R
razor411
Guest
So I just moved here to the music city and found this board. I saw all the posting about this station and decided to check it out. I was expecting to hear a very poorly programmed station...Here's what I found. First of all, if all of the posts here are true, it is good the station is looking to change their name. I have never been a big fan of "Classic Hits" as a name for a station like this. It's an industry term and most listeners don't get it. It's to easy to say "I Don't Think "Don't Bring Me Down" is a "Classic Hit." With that said...lots of stations go with that name.
I'm not a big fan of the "Bob and Tom Show"; however it is a solid and safe show for this type of format. Very nice for this area, this morning I heard Peyton Manning on the show....Didn't he go to college around here somewhere?
I did like the fact that there seemed to be quite a bit of local content....even teasing a ticket giveaway coming up in the show. The local host was really selling the following dayparts. I did like that.
I checked out Middays and Afternoons yesterday. I didn't here a lot of the midday host "Sherry" but when I did, she was very solid. The Afternoon Drive guy was friendly and did a little music content, which was nice.
It did sound like the station has a lot of events going on. Concerts they are involved with, two ticket giveaways to the the comedy club here and tickets to see Andrew Dice Clay. My only compliant would be, I would like to hear some listener interaction.
As for the music, it was the typical solid and safe playlist. Which in all honesty is not exclusive to this station. There are plenty of stations around the country playing the game this way. It's mass appeal programming....and really...that is how you win. Program a little for a lot....Not a lot for a few. If millions of people wanted to hear "Track 14 on Pink Floyds 3rd Album" then everyone would be doing it. However, when you check out what songs people continue to buy today it's always "Sweet Home Alabama", "Start Me Up" and "Dream On."
I understand that there are die hard music lovers out there that know every album cut by BTO...but everybody knows "Takin' Care of Business."
My only real compliant is the imaging. The voice is not right for the format.
I have no idea how this station does in the ratings around here. But, coming in and hearing it for the first time....it's not that bad.....not the best I have ever heard...but not the worst either.
I'm not a big fan of the "Bob and Tom Show"; however it is a solid and safe show for this type of format. Very nice for this area, this morning I heard Peyton Manning on the show....Didn't he go to college around here somewhere?
I did like the fact that there seemed to be quite a bit of local content....even teasing a ticket giveaway coming up in the show. The local host was really selling the following dayparts. I did like that.
I checked out Middays and Afternoons yesterday. I didn't here a lot of the midday host "Sherry" but when I did, she was very solid. The Afternoon Drive guy was friendly and did a little music content, which was nice.
It did sound like the station has a lot of events going on. Concerts they are involved with, two ticket giveaways to the the comedy club here and tickets to see Andrew Dice Clay. My only compliant would be, I would like to hear some listener interaction.
As for the music, it was the typical solid and safe playlist. Which in all honesty is not exclusive to this station. There are plenty of stations around the country playing the game this way. It's mass appeal programming....and really...that is how you win. Program a little for a lot....Not a lot for a few. If millions of people wanted to hear "Track 14 on Pink Floyds 3rd Album" then everyone would be doing it. However, when you check out what songs people continue to buy today it's always "Sweet Home Alabama", "Start Me Up" and "Dream On."
I understand that there are die hard music lovers out there that know every album cut by BTO...but everybody knows "Takin' Care of Business."
My only real compliant is the imaging. The voice is not right for the format.
I have no idea how this station does in the ratings around here. But, coming in and hearing it for the first time....it's not that bad.....not the best I have ever heard...but not the worst either.
S
SwissVol
Guest
I see much enthusiasm for getting a good quality oldies format going again, but that enthusiasm is not very strong for a deep cut vintage rock station.
Oh I agree that Nashville needs a good oldies format once again. Much of that music was the music most of us grew up with. Not unlike most of you, it was a thrill to listen to WKDA good guys or WMAK back in the day. It is my hope someone will bring that format back to terrestrial radio again or as someone said "Real" radio.
WCBS in New York started this lets ax the oldies radio idea, but a month or so back WCBS FM rescued the oldies from the obscurity of HD2 radio. I was hoping that Nashville would see what happened in the Big Apple and do likewise.
At the very least I would hope that the new format of WRQQ might bring back the Deep Cuts show once again. Maybe even do it nightly from 10p to 2 A. Let people call in with requests of songs other than the tired old beaten to death tunes. For instance: Jackson Kent Blues by Steve Miller Band or Inside from Jethro Tull or Party on the patio by ZZ Top or Life on the drop by Stevie Ray Vaughn.
My hope is that WRQQ would have some kind of deep cuts program back again.
Oh I agree that Nashville needs a good oldies format once again. Much of that music was the music most of us grew up with. Not unlike most of you, it was a thrill to listen to WKDA good guys or WMAK back in the day. It is my hope someone will bring that format back to terrestrial radio again or as someone said "Real" radio.
WCBS in New York started this lets ax the oldies radio idea, but a month or so back WCBS FM rescued the oldies from the obscurity of HD2 radio. I was hoping that Nashville would see what happened in the Big Apple and do likewise.
At the very least I would hope that the new format of WRQQ might bring back the Deep Cuts show once again. Maybe even do it nightly from 10p to 2 A. Let people call in with requests of songs other than the tired old beaten to death tunes. For instance: Jackson Kent Blues by Steve Miller Band or Inside from Jethro Tull or Party on the patio by ZZ Top or Life on the drop by Stevie Ray Vaughn.
My hope is that WRQQ would have some kind of deep cuts program back again.
Jack, good luck to you and the other 97'ers in Clarksville. I worked at Q108 before and after their call letters change in 1986-7. Lee Erwin is a good guy and you will enjoy working with him. He has been there 30 or more years. Q108 sounds good. Keep up the good work.
ARDONAVINDA said:
Sounds like you're describing what was WLSQ "Musicradio" in Crossville. They had it all - the jingles, the dj's, great music. Everytime I drove to Knoxville, I had them on the whole time. Check out the East Tennessee board for the story of the sudden demise. The format sounded great, but obviously didn't sell great.
I made the same argument made here many months ago and I was promptly shot down. And the more I thought about it, the more I realized everyone was right. If you were 18 in 1970 and grew up loving the 60's and 70's music, you're 55 now! This is not the demographic that's throwing money all over the place. Listen to the businesses advertising on WAMB - the demo of 60's/70's stations is not much younger than the WAMB demo (as hard is that is to admit!). The florists on there are after the funeral business - not the dating crowd.
Kind of scary isn't it?
S
SwissVol
Guest
w9wi said:
Yeah, I've heard the WNRQ HD2 version of deep cuts or Vinyl Vineyard and quite frankly I am just not impressed. It is a combination of tunes that would probably fit in with an oldies format mixed with tunes from AOR radio.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Oldies Cat said:
Sorry guys. I'm re-posting this because part of the previous posters' rant looked like my post (because I didn't frame the quote properly).
;D
To quote an earlier post:
Why do so few of you get it? What they want out of their Oldies station (60s/70s, whatever) is their favorite MUSIC, not hollerin' top 5 @ 5 countdowns and "on this :. Only radio people want that kind of radio.
Does this mean radio people can't like any kind of radio that doesn't agree with what non-radio people like?
What am I missing here? But listening to much of what's on the radio now, I understand why my parents didn't listen much to the radio (except when they could hear me--they did have some taste.)
Why do so few of you get it? What they want out of their Oldies station (60s/70s, whatever) is their favorite MUSIC, not hollerin' top 5 @ 5 countdowns and "on this :
. Only radio people want that kind of radio.Does this mean radio people can't like any kind of radio that doesn't agree with what non-radio people like?
What am I missing here? But listening to much of what's on the radio now, I understand why my parents didn't listen much to the radio (except when they could hear me--they did have some taste.)
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