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It *IS* the signal, not the format
- Thread starter Nu_Roo_2
- Start date
CatFM said:
Cat...you couldn't be more correct. Signal is 90% of the equation. And your comparisons with WCOL (both in oldies and later, country) are dead on the money. A lot of people forget that WCOL carried (as an oldies station) a 6.5 or 6.8 12 plus prior to WBNS coming on the air (good for about #4 or #5 overall). Though 'COL lost a little listening with the added competition, they generally stayed in the Mid-4's...while 'BNS was a 2 (or less). When they went country, it was no contest. Nationwide had done the research...found that the hole in the market for a full-signaled country station was around an 8-10 share. That's why they gave up oldies. (A 6 with BNS out as oldies, an 8 to a 10 as country.) We had no doubt that 'COL would dominate from day one. And, Nationwide predicted literally every move 98.9 and WHOK made before they happened. When 98.9 went "Wild Country", we knew it would be a failure, because that approach had already been researched. Even the name. The research said...it would be a turkey. And the "edgier" the station got, the bigger flop the research said it would be. And, it happened just that way. I couldn't talk about that for a long time, but I guess I can now.
Now, as far as WTDA is concerned, there is a hole for FM talk. But...you can't do it as a red-headed stepchild. A competitive FM news-talk has all the elements...local news, good weather coverage, national & international news from a respected network (say, Fox...sorry those of you with left-leanings. Fox is now the recognized "name" for news.) Good traffic. And, yes, a respectible signal that can penetrate downdown. And you can't do it with some "B" grade talk shows. Not all of WTDA's shows are like that, but some are.
And, a "comedy" show such as Bob & Tom doesn't really fit, either. What you end with is the same type of station K-Rock in New York was when Howard was on the air. Big morning numbers, and little after the morning show, because the two types of programs don't mesh as well as they could. Frankly, the fit with Howard and K-Rock is better than Bob & Tom with News-talk.
But, to do it any other way...costs $$$$$$$. And it doesn't appear as though NABCO is able to pull that off right now.
Now, add the limited signal to the argument. That argues against spending much money, 'cause the return won't be as great as it would be on a good stick. So, you take your best shot with what you got, and hope it works.
And, now you see the result.
pbf1 said:
Ah...revisionist history at work here!
Here's reality:
The research Nationwide did showed that if WRVF had stayed "The River", it might have lasted a while longer. "The River", you see enjoyed a great reputation with the Columbus country audience. (Before 'COL, at its' peak, it hit a 7 share.) Some of the reason it got that reputation was that, frankly, Alan Gray (then-owner) and Rob Ellis (PD) made the station similar in approach, though not exactly a copy, to Dayton's WHKO. By this I mean: they kept the talk at a minimum and they played the hits. It was a good contrast to the more "countryfied" talkative, WHOK. And, it's signal was better in Franklin and Delaware counties.
When 'COL came on the air, The River took a hard ratings hit and was limping, but was far from "out". Alan Gray then sold the station to Carl Hirsch.
When the sale was announced, here's what Nationwide predicted:
That Hirsch would "remake" the station in his image.
That he would take it very young, and would most likely call it "Wild Country" (which was the worst testing of all the slogans Nationwide tested.)
And that, while it might attract some attention among younger males, it would flop.
During its' time on the air, the newly renamed WLLD hung generally between a 2.0 and a 2.7 12 plus. (Numbers which, by the way pbf1, are completely consistant with the "five share territory" of which you speak in daypart and in demo.) The station was never at a 5 share among listeners 12 plus overall, at any time in its' existance. (I have a memo in my file cabinets somewhere from then WCOL PD Michael Cruise, congratulating us about a year in, on a great book and noted "Wild 2.3"'s drop.)
Sometimes their numbers would inch up a few tenths, or down a few tenths. But I would dispute the claim that "edgy"
got better numbers.
You see, at the very end, the station decided to go all out. To a new slogan: "The best d--n country". Something which is a total turnoff to a mainstream country listener. (They might use that kind of salty language in real life, but would never tolerate it coming out of their radios with their kids around.) Had this approached worked, there would have been no need to go to the "vanilla 20 in a row country".
But Hirsch sold to Citicasters (if I remember right)...and they weren't going to have a station called what you read above.
(I'm sure since they owned successful country stations, too...they knew how nuclear that approach, and that slogan was.)
There's a rumor out there that, doing the research and seeing how well "The River" brand worked with the audience, they even considered bringing "The River" back (resurrecting the entire original staff). Allegedly, some of those involved with the original "River" felt the frequency had been a bit "poisoned" and would not likely have a great effect on 'COL anyway. So, as the story goes, the Citicasters offer was politely turned down. (It might have been interesting to see what might have happened with a "River 2.0" that had behind it, a company that would spend money where it was needed.) Hence the "20-in-a-row approach" (logical considering WCOL's 12 in-a-row-posture at the time). But, it never caught on. (I think, perhaps, the former River employees contacted may have been right.) Other than some young 20-somethings who thought it was "cool" to have a country station and DJ's that cursed on the air, I think the majority of the mainstream country audience had "had it" with 98.9 and gave up on the channel.
For the record, I've heard the "River 2.0" story from sources I consider extremely reliable, but won't name names out of respect for the sources.
And, since I apparently touched a nerve with some of the "Wild" staff, let me say this: you guys are talented folks. You did what your bosses (and their bosses) told you to do. You worked hard. You gave it your best to pull it off. I wouldn't take that away from you. (I've been in similar situations in my career.) It was good folks who were handed a poorly researched, badly thought out strategy. And a bad strategy up against all the research and 'COL's monster signal (and Nationwide's money) could not, would not, did not...win.
With the big stick of WCOL, there was simply no need for a 4th country station. Just like it is today. (Oops! Did I say that?)
??
Not quite. It was above a three Summer '95, and below a two through it's Country 98.9 time. Nothing revisionist about that. And for a number of books, Joby's last hour and my first were the top two hours on the station.
But I wasn't working there to get rich. Just to pay the bills while working on my MBA.
(Do you honestly mean to tell me you don't know how the name Best Damn Country came about?)
Jason Roberts said:
Not quite. It was above a three Summer '95, and below a two through it's Country 98.9 time. Nothing revisionist about that. And for a number of books, Joby's last hour and my first were the top two hours on the station.
But I wasn't working there to get rich. Just to pay the bills while working on my MBA.
(Do you honestly mean to tell me you don't know how the name Best Damn Country came about?)
Re: ??
If you read my post, I said the 2.0 to 2.7 was where the numbers fell "generally". Sure, you had a book, a trend or two that spiked. Never said it didn't happen (though I alluded to it in saying "the numbers inched up a few tenths and they went down a few tenths".)
But, "Wild" was definitely in the 2's most of the time. (Why else did Cruise call you "Wild 2.3"? And, before you, perhaps would try and question his honesty, I saw the numbers myself. I was in the PD's office everytime they came in.)
Top 2 hours on the station? Fine. Congratulations. I never said that was bad, or wrong...but what was the result in the end? What does two or 3 hours...or a daypart or two make over the course of a total week? (other than a justifiable sense of pride on your parts?) I stand by my comments. (Hey, I once had a 14 share on an AM station in Dayton between 5 and 6 AM, so I can tell those kinds of stories, too.) Wild was hampered by signal, a flawed strategy and was up against a competitor that was going to spend whatever was necessary to defend its' turf. It was a fun battle, as radio battles go, but 'COL was never seriously challenged. (But, were we paying attention to you guys? Sure. You don't turn your back on a competitor.)
Did we ever have down books, even bad ones in those days? Yep. I remember a 7.5 book once when Gary Moss was PD. What made it interesting was by then, Dave Robbins was GM. Dave looked at those numbers for precisely 10 minutes, looked up and said, "Well, here's what the problem is! We've got a cume problem. And there's only one way to fix that, we've got to promote. We're not spending enough money! Let me make a couple of phone calls across the street." By that afternoon, we had money...we bought TV ads, we increased the promo budget for the next book, and next time, we were back on top. A lot of GM's would have blamed a jock (or jocks) or the PD and fired them. Dave said,
in effect, the promotional strategy was wrong...and he was right. The station was budgeting big bucks at the time, but was restraining the spending. That's ok sometimes, but we had restrained for too long.
As to your "slogan" story, I've heard many stories about the station, (but, I'll let those closer to the situation than I tell them), just not that one. It's probably interesting, though. And, it's probably best to hear it from someone who was there. Nonetheless, just about any competent country consultant or programmer would advise to stay far away from that slogan, for the very reasons I stated.
Just don't try and make the suggestion that "Wild" was in the 3's most of the time, but dropped in the 2's only after going to "Country 98.9". That would be trying to revise history. I don't still have every Arbitron book from those days, but I'm not that old yet...and my memory isn't that foggy. No offense or insult intended here. It's just the way it was.
pbf1 said:
If you read my post, I said the 2.0 to 2.7 was where the numbers fell "generally". Sure, you had a book, a trend or two that spiked. Never said it didn't happen (though I alluded to it in saying "the numbers inched up a few tenths and they went down a few tenths".)
But, "Wild" was definitely in the 2's most of the time. (Why else did Cruise call you "Wild 2.3"? And, before you, perhaps would try and question his honesty, I saw the numbers myself. I was in the PD's office everytime they came in.)
Top 2 hours on the station? Fine. Congratulations. I never said that was bad, or wrong...but what was the result in the end? What does two or 3 hours...or a daypart or two make over the course of a total week? (other than a justifiable sense of pride on your parts?) I stand by my comments. (Hey, I once had a 14 share on an AM station in Dayton between 5 and 6 AM, so I can tell those kinds of stories, too.) Wild was hampered by signal, a flawed strategy and was up against a competitor that was going to spend whatever was necessary to defend its' turf. It was a fun battle, as radio battles go, but 'COL was never seriously challenged. (But, were we paying attention to you guys? Sure. You don't turn your back on a competitor.)
Did we ever have down books, even bad ones in those days? Yep. I remember a 7.5 book once when Gary Moss was PD. What made it interesting was by then, Dave Robbins was GM. Dave looked at those numbers for precisely 10 minutes, looked up and said, "Well, here's what the problem is! We've got a cume problem. And there's only one way to fix that, we've got to promote. We're not spending enough money! Let me make a couple of phone calls across the street." By that afternoon, we had money...we bought TV ads, we increased the promo budget for the next book, and next time, we were back on top. A lot of GM's would have blamed a jock (or jocks) or the PD and fired them. Dave said,
in effect, the promotional strategy was wrong...and he was right. The station was budgeting big bucks at the time, but was restraining the spending. That's ok sometimes, but we had restrained for too long.
As to your "slogan" story, I've heard many stories about the station, (but, I'll let those closer to the situation than I tell them), just not that one. It's probably interesting, though. And, it's probably best to hear it from someone who was there. Nonetheless, just about any competent country consultant or programmer would advise to stay far away from that slogan, for the very reasons I stated.
Just don't try and make the suggestion that "Wild" was in the 3's most of the time, but dropped in the 2's only after going to "Country 98.9". That would be trying to revise history. I don't still have every Arbitron book from those days, but I'm not that old yet...and my memory isn't that foggy. No offense or insult intended here. It's just the way it was.
Yes, we knew Wild wouldn't last. But knowing that going in, we had a blast! And, I learned alot. Being in a competitive situation makes one better. I feel fortunate to have started my early career at two underdog stations (Hot 105 and then Wild).
And, pbf, the slogan's not the best story... Recall the live commercial read after midnight?... Or the limo story... Man, do I miss my 20's!
And, pbf, the slogan's not the best story... Recall the live commercial read after midnight?... Or the limo story... Man, do I miss my 20's!
R
Radioboy989
Guest
This thread brought back a memopry.
I was in studio the night of the flip from The Mix 98.9 to Columbus Country 98.9. It was a strange transition. Dave Leitch was on the air, I was there with Bob Randolph and I believe Rob Ellis. The last song played on WXMX, Natalie and Nat Cole, Unforgettable...
Of all the hot country songs of the era, all the Garth Brooks, Travis Tritt, Trisha Yearwood uptempo, feel-good tunes to play...does anyone remember the very first song we played on "WRVF-Columbus Country 98.9"?
I was in studio the night of the flip from The Mix 98.9 to Columbus Country 98.9. It was a strange transition. Dave Leitch was on the air, I was there with Bob Randolph and I believe Rob Ellis. The last song played on WXMX, Natalie and Nat Cole, Unforgettable...
Of all the hot country songs of the era, all the Garth Brooks, Travis Tritt, Trisha Yearwood uptempo, feel-good tunes to play...does anyone remember the very first song we played on "WRVF-Columbus Country 98.9"?
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