It's not just KRTH, and not just Los Angeles.

[davideduardo]

But there was also Record World and Cash Box for the retail and jukebox world.

It is fun to peruse Cash Box. I love looking at how the designs of jukeboxes change over the years, with the "hip" later 60's and 70's flashy designs being quite, uh, "representative of the era". I am reminded of my bell bottoms and tie-died shirts and Nehru jackets.

Ah, thinking back, substitute "embarrassed" for "reminded".

 

[semoochie]

I'm not questioning the impact of the rock and soul and blues music of the late '50s and '60s on radio or on popular music as a whole. My point is that I can't buy into any of that music actually changing national or world history. Unions would have become strong whether or not Woody Guthrie was singing about them. Congress didn't need "We Shall Overcome" to pass the Civil Rights Act. Environmental protection legislation didn't get passed because Marvin Gaye sang "Mercy Mercy Me" or the Grass Roots [EDIT: Three Dog Night] sang "Family of Man." Music provides a soundtrack to historical documentaries and to people's memories of historical turning points, but that's not the same as it actually having caused those changes.

Public opinion of the Vietnam War changed dramatically after the mid-'60s, in no small part because of the youth movement!

 

[cc333]

I love looking at how the designs of jukeboxes change over the years, with the "hip" later 60's and 70's flashy designs being quite, uh, "representative of the era".

I have seen jukeboxes that I guess are later (when did 45 RPM single-based jukeboxes stop being made?) and are much more conservatively designed, some to the point that they're basically big, plain boxes with little more than the selector buttons, coin slots and speaker grille(s).

It would be fun to have one someday, as I have a few hundred 45s I could load into one if I wanted (or I could get a few hundred more; if one looks around, lots of one or two hundred can be found for relatively little money. the quality is likely to be highly variable and on average relatively low, but as long as they're still playable without skips, who cares if they're a little noisy?)

What's the topic of this thread again?????

c

 

[davideduardo]

What's the topic of this thread again?????

The topic, as often seen here, is "where ever it takes us".

There are radio sites where there is a "Topic Nazi" stopping or closing subjects. Frank and I, within reason, like to let some topics be like a hike in on a new trail, full of discovery.

Several times this week I have moved a set of posts or a whole thread, but only to make them more visible. I'm not going to get upset when one subject spawns another!

(See, you gave me a chance to go off topic with you!)

 

[CTListener]

Billboard was so clearly aimed at the retailer, rackjobber and wholesaler. What gave them any pull in radio at all were its radio awards and (prior to R&R) Claude Hall with radio industry gossip and the chance for even minor-market jocks (like me) to see their name in print.

In fact, a mention in Vox Jox is what got me the gig in 1976 where I met the woman I married 40 years later, so…thanks, Claude!

I read Billboard regularly from the late '70s through the mid '90s and pretty much ignored all that retail/wholesale stuff. My interests were music and radio. And Vox Jox was usually the first thing I'd read, looking for news from stations I listened to and frequently spotting names of DJs who had moved on to other gigs. My favorite items, though, had to do with wacky promotional gimmicks. My favorite was the station that, to promote itself as well as Ray Parker Jr. and Raydio's then-current hit "You Can't Change That," was given a supply of cheap transistor radios that could receive only one frequency -- that station's! (You can't change that, see?) I believe they were given away to whatever-numbered caller every time that song was played until all were gone. I wonder if any of those radios are still out there.

 

[michael hagerty]

Public opinion of the Vietnam War changed dramatically after the mid-'60s, in no small part because of the youth movement!

That's the conventional wisdom, but it's not really the case.

As late as November, 1969, half of U.S. college students supported President Nixon's Vietnam war policies. It was the 36% approval rating of East Coast college students that dropped it that low. In the South, it was 60%, the Midwest 52% and the West 50%.

Gallup Vault: 1969 College Students' Resistance to Vietnam

U.S. college students, especially those in the East, outpaced the general public in opposing Richard Nixon's policies on the Vietnam War.

news.gallup.com

What turned public opinion were the increasing number of parents whose sons were coming home in boxes or not at all, the absence of a compelling argument or strategy for the war that was killing them, and the exposure of the degree to which the Pentagon was willing to lie about how the war was going.

And it's really easy to overstate the 60s culture as being defining for the Baby Boom. Remember---that's a group of people born between 1946 and 1964. In 1969---the year of Woodstock---more than half of Baby Boomers were 13 or younger.

 

[Oldbones]

And it's really easy to overstate the 60s culture as being defining for the Baby Boom. Remember---that's a group of people born between 1946 and 1964. In 1969---the year of Woodstock---more than half of Baby Boomers were 13 or younger.

I was 19 in 1969 and the "Woodstock generation" image was not a very accurate portrayal of most of my social circle at the time. Yeah, there were a few hippies, but for the most part we were just young adults going to college to learn a trade that would hopefully get us a good job.
Personally, I was only vaguely aware that Woodstock even happened until the news stories after the event. And I lived only a couple hundred miles from ol' Max Yasgur's farm.

As far as my college classmates' opinions on the Vietnam war, I'd say it was mixed at best. Granted it was a state tech school, not a university so it was a different crowd. Not even sure where I stood on it...some days was opposed, others maybe not. My draft number was high enough that while I did get called in for my physical, I never got drafted.

 

[semoochie]

That's the conventional wisdom, but it's not really the case.

As late as November, 1969, half of U.S. college students supported President Nixon's Vietnam war policies. It was the 36% approval rating of East Coast college students that dropped it that low. In the South, it was 60%, the Midwest 52% and the West 50%.

Gallup Vault: 1969 College Students' Resistance to Vietnam

U.S. college students, especially those in the East, outpaced the general public in opposing Richard Nixon's policies on the Vietnam War.

news.gallup.com

What turned public opinion were the increasing number of parents whose sons were coming home in boxes or not at all, the absence of a compelling argument or strategy for the war that was killing them, and the exposure of the degree to which the Pentagon was willing to lie about how the war was going.

And it's really easy to overstate the 60s culture as being defining for the Baby Boom. Remember---that's a group of people born between 1946 and 1964. In 1969---the year of Woodstock---more than half of Baby Boomers were 13 or younger.

In 1968, Nixon campaigned on the platform that he was going to end the war, which was a far cry from Johnson/Goldwater in 1964!

 

[michael hagerty]

In 1968, Nixon campaigned on the platform that he was going to end the war, which was a far cry from Johnson/Goldwater in 1964!

An oversimplification. Nixon threaded the needle in 1968, promising "an honorable end to American involvement in Vietnam" through his "Vietnamization" plan, by which US troops would eventually and gradually hand over the fighting to the South Vietnamese.

What was missing were specifics and a timetable. Within 14 months of being sworn in, he invaded Cambodia. And 57% of Americans supported him:

Gallup Poll Finds 57% Support President on Cambodian Policy (Published 1970)

Gallup Poll survey immediately after Nixon Apr 30 s announcing his decision to move into Cambodia finds 57% of those surveyed support him, 31%; disapprove, 12% have no opinion; majority approval linked to belief that move will bring war to early end

www.nytimes.com

 

[TheBigA]

While you were there, did you also read the other following hard to believe stories:

My grandma calls that throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Why not address the message, rather than attack the messenger?

Should we completely dismiss everything Fox News says because they called Arizona for Biden? I guess so.

BTW I didn't say I believed the story...just that it was there. You know what they say about assume?

 

[davideduardo]

Even if you accept the actual Arizona vote count as being accurate, the margin of votes was only approximately 10,000. There is no way ANYONE could have known how the vote was going to turn out until all or nearly all of the votes were counted, which wasn't until late the following morning. Statistics don't lie, but statisticians and reporters on news stations do. I was and am convinced the fix was in, Fox was a big part of it (they clearly had planned to call it as soon as the polls closed all along) , and I won't tolerate being lied to.

There are statistical models for every state and district in them that allow almost instant analysis. When the data looks "obtuse" there is no prediction. When it follows a marked pattern, it is deemed projectable.

In AZ, the models predicted exactly what happened, and very early.

 

[briancraig]

The other thing about Billboard is it was the one trade that had radio news that was easy to access.

Most libraries subscribed to Billboard and it was available for sale on newsstands and in bookstores. Growing up, I never saw any of the others for sale with the exception of R and R at a few newsstands in Nashville. I think CashBox had greater distribution at one time, but by the late 1970s, I never saw it for sale.

And while radio stations may have paid no attention to the Billboard charts, they became the definitive chart for the public and news media. If it is not number one in Billboard then most people don’t consider a record being a legitimate number one. I’m sure AT40 and ACC had a lot to do with this in the 1970s. Also Joel Whitburn’s books made it easy to use Billboard for historic research. It has been only recently that he and now his heirs have done chart books on CashBox, Record World, R and R and Gavin.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

I read the entire long article very carefully. One of the premises of the article is that many young people of the 60’s and many young people of today are conservatives and not liberals.

 

[davideduardo]

I read the entire long article very carefully. One of the premises of the article is that many young people of the 60’s and many young people of today are conservatives and not liberals.

... or have split perspectives that do not match 100% either party's platform, which explains the huge number of independents.

 

[davideduardo]

The other thing about Billboard is it was the one trade that had radio news that was easy to access.

But, other than looking for your own name or your friend's names in VoxJox, it did not cover radio particularly well.

Most libraries subscribed to Billboard and it was available for sale on newsstands and in bookstores. Growing up, I never saw any of the others for sale with the exception of R and R at a few newsstands in Nashville. I think CashBox had greater distribution at one time, but by the late 1970s, I never saw it for sale.

And the subscriptions to the "real" programming publications was much more expensive.

And while radio stations may have paid no attention to the Billboard charts, they became the definitive chart for the public and news media. If it is not number one in Billboard then most people don’t consider a record being a legitimate number one. I’m sure AT40 and ACC had a lot to do with this in the 1970s. Also Joel Whitburn’s books made it easy to use Billboard for historic research. It has been only recently that he and now his heirs have done chart books on CashBox, Record World, R and R and Gavin.

Again, many radio stations, including those I was involved with, never bought Billboard. So I never got my name in VoxJox and did not even attend most Billboard programmer seminars.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

So the writer believes that there are parallels between the generation of today and of the 60’s. It’s a long article and that is only one of the premises. The writer believes that the people in the streets protesting and the people at Woodstock festival 1969 were largely, but not all, of the previous generation.

The music being written, produced, and played on radio was that of young people in their teens and 20’s. College age and slightly older people were a big force in popular music.
The Woodstock festival and the Monterey festival in 67 were big events that determined the course of music and record sales.
The people born in the late 40’s would have been the average age to attend the events and write the music.
The air talent who programmed and played the music were for the most part in their early 20’s.
David.says he owned his first station at age 18.
Michael says he was working in radio in Bishop at 16.
And that is the music that commented on the condition of the world and added to the changes in the world.
I know what was performed at the festivals and in the streets because I was there in person. I know what they played and sang.

 

[TheBigA]

The writer believes that the people in the streets protesting and the people at Woodstock festival 1969 were largely, but not all, of the previous generation.

The writer doesn't believe that. He quotes people and studies that say that. Two different things. But what we know is that most of the musicians and leaders of the 60s were born in the early 1940s, which is before the baby boom.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

WHBQ in Memphis was the first station IIRC to play Elvis and Carl Perkins’s music. They were signed with Sam Phillips on the Sun label.
They were not radicals, but they had Black friends who were musicians, and they wanted them to be able to attend the concerts.
WHBQ was not staffed with radicals. They wanted to play music which attracted listeners.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

The writer doesn't believe that. He quotes people and studies that say that. Two different things. But what we know is that most of the musicians and leaders of the 60s were born in the early 1940s, which is before the baby boom.

Fine, no problem.
I think the writer is pointing out that not all boomers and not at Zer’s are liberal. That seems to be his premise, regardless of his personal beliefs.

 

[davideduardo]

The air talent who programmed and played the music were for the most part in their early 20’s.

By the 60's Top 40 stations were programmed by the PD and MD, and jocks could not change the music.

A few progressive rock FMs prospered from the late 50's into the 70's, but were mostly rapidly killed by Lee Abrams' Superstars system and copies of it. No jock choices, either

David.says he owned his first station at age 18.

And I was in South America and any protest or social content song in English was guaranteed not to be a hit. About the closest I came to that was "Sounds of Silence". We did play maybe 35% songs in English, but no thing about the war or flower children.

And that is the music that commented on the condition of the world and added to the changes in the world.
I know what was performed at the festivals and in the streets because I was there in person. I know what they played and sang.

But in a lot of markets, let's say Birmingham or Flint or Tulsa, the "flower power" thing was more of a novelty than a movement.