It's not just KRTH, and not just Los Angeles.

[davideduardo]

Yes. But stations in Flint would have played R & B to an integrated audience in the early 60's, because those artists and groups were performing in and around the Detroit area.

To some extent. But that was still before young people started being in integrated groups.

At my high school in the Cleveland area there were no Blacks at all. But right across the street, I was the only white guy at a Black r&b station, WJMO.

I would imagine they were played on Top 40 stations in the Cleveland area also. That is R & B music, which only a decade earlier, would have been considered exclusive to only a Black audience. That's part of the social change. It's bigger than just "flower power" songs.

No, the Top 40 stations in the later 50's and well into the 60's until Motown came on the scene did not play crossover music. WJMO, the r&b top 40 station, did the job well and Blacks listened to it.

Same in Miami with both WQAM and WFUN. The Black music was on the r&b station.

 

[michael hagerty]

That's too bad. "War" was one of the most incredible tracks Berry Gordy's Motown machine ever produced. And yes, I know that Starr (who wrote the song) became the vocalist only after Gordy's original choice, the Temptations, turned it down, fearing its topical nature would hurt their careers.

Interesting choice, since they'd just hit with "Ball of Confusion".

 

[TheBigA]

No, the Top 40 stations in the later 50's and well into the 60's until Motown came on the scene did not play crossover music.

Although both Ray Charles and Sam Cooke crossed over in 1960. They each had several crossover #1s.

Nat King Cole had a bunch of crossover #1s in the 1950s, starting with Mona Lisa.

 

[michael hagerty]

Michael says he was working in radio in Bishop at 16.
And that is the music that commented on the condition of the world and added to the changes in the world.
I know what was performed at the festivals and in the streets because I was there in person. I know what they played and sang.

Started a few weeks after turning 15. Music Director at 16 and PD at 17.

And here's the thing---I was peripherally aware of the events of the 60s because I didn't leave the room when the grownups turned the news on, but I was 7 when JFK was assassinated. I was 8 when the Beatles arrived in the U.S. I was 9 when Boss Radio launched and Watts burned. I was 11 during the Summer of Love, Flower Power and Tom Donahue launching freeform radio. I was 12 for the Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy assassinations and the Chicago riots. 13 for the moon landing and Woodstock. 14 for Kent State.

I was born in 1956---the year before the first peak year of the Baby Boom. The second peak was 1961. More people were born in each of the years 1956 through 1964 than were born in any of the Baby Boom years prior, which is where I got my statistic earlier that more than half of the Baby Boomers were 13 or younger for Woodstock.

The first time that the Baby Boom, all of it, was at least 13 years old was 1977. So a lot of what people default to (Vietnam, social unrest, flower power, Woodstock) as Boomer stuff is actually anywhere between "yeah, I remember, but it wasn't anything I was involved in" to "before my time" for half---the larger half---of that generation.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Although both Ray Charles and Sam Cooke crossed over in 1960. They each had several crossover #1s.

Agreed. Huge hits. "I Can't Stop Loving You" and other Ray Charles songs with a country sound were huge, at least in L.A. I'm pretty sure, but not certain, that song charted at No. 1. Top 40 stations played the heck out of that, even as a gold song many years later. They usually don't play ballads as gold.
Sam Cooke "Don't Know Much About History" -- official title "Wonderful World" charted pretty high in 1960 - 1961,

 

[TheBigA]

Agreed. Huge hits. "I Can't Stop Loving You" and other Ray Charles songs with a country sound were huge,

Billboard didn't do breakout charts at the time, but several of those songs got lots of airplay on MOR stations too.

 

[davideduardo]

Although both Ray Charles and Sam Cooke crossed over in 1960. They each had several crossover #1s.

Nat King Cole had a bunch of crossover #1s in the 1950s, starting with Mona Lisa.

I would not call those strictly crossovers. While the artists were black, the music was pretty generic. Those artists, particularly Nat "King" Cole were featured on network television, so they were well accepted.

Similarly, Chubby Checker was famous for novelty songs, not for his skin tone.

 

[TheBigA]

I would not call those strictly crossovers. While the artists were black, the music was pretty generic.

It depends on the song. I wouldn't call Chain Gang generic. But I agree about Cole. He was a movie & TV star at the time.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Here's some more example of music crossing cultural divides either in the 60's or by artists who came of age in the during that age.

The first song I learned to sing in Spanish was "La Bamba" by Richie Valens (Valenzuela). We actually sang it in school as part of music class. The teachers chose the song because school age children would know it as a gold song from the 50's. We also sang "Guantanamera" by the Sandpipers, which was actually a Cuban folk song based on a poem by Jose Marti. That's a pretty far-fetched crossover for my suburb, which was almost all white and Republican. Cuba was looked upon as a hostile nation, and here we were singing Cuban songs in 1965.

Linda Ronstadt, of Mexican and German heritage from Tucson, got the idea to record an album of songs in Spanish, backed by well-known mariachi groups from Mexico. As Linda tells the story in her 2019 documentary, her label was shocked. They tried to talk her out of it, saying that it would ruin her career. But she persisted, and "Canciones De Mi Padre" went on to become a double-platinum album.
This trend continues into the 2000's. Luis Fonzi's hit "Despacito" was huge. Ricky Martin was very successful with "La Vida Loca."

David would be able to tell us if those songs were considered just "for gringos" , or if they did well in Puerto Rico. I always wondered if P.R. radio stations played them, or if they were thought of as not to be taken seriously by local listeners. -- D.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

The one in the mountains is in an affluent resort area and seems to make money. But it would not be considered beautiful by your definition. Maybe the others wouldn't either. I don't know how many vocals KAHM plays and I didn't like it the last time it was free.

If I bring up stations that are "obscure" or "a hobby", blame my Facebook group which treats all streaming stations as equals, as long as access is free and a stream is dependable. And believe me, those people have a different attitude than people here about whether music is outdated or whether anyone should be bothering to play it. Many of the stations they talk about exist only online.

No, if YOU bring it up, that is you. Not some alleged Facebook group. Maybe that poor sap you allegedly conned from the motel across the street can explain that concept.

 

[gr8oldies]

Oh great, no future! The people with all the guns are just fine with authoritarianism! The gullible will do us in once and for all!

I guess we do have to have our experiment with fascism after all.

 

[davideduardo]

This trend continues into the 2000's. Luis Fonzi's hit "Despacito" was huge. Ricky Martin was very successful with "La Vida Loca."

David would be able to tell us if those songs were considered just "for gringos" , or if they did well in Puerto Rico. I always wondered if P.R. radio stations played them, or if they were thought of as not to be taken seriously by local listeners. -- D.

Those were huge, enormous hits in Puerto Rico. The Fonisi/Daddy Yankee song was recorded in La Perla, a poor class slum on the shoreline of the peninsula/island that is Old San Juan. It sits under a wall, nearly in front of the Capitol Building and is the source of lots of lyrical references in all manner of Puerto Rican music. By adding Miss Puerto Rico as sumptuous eye candy, filming in La Perla, doing a song that was borderline erotic and doing a duo with two of the Islands biggest stars, they could not miss.

While La Vida Loca is mostly in English, it was a big hit on pop and AC stations that play English songs on the Island.

 

[gr8oldies]

That's too bad. "War" was one of the most incredible tracks Berry Gordy's Motown machine ever produced. And yes, I know that Starr (who wrote the song) became the vocalist only after Gordy's original choice, the Temptations, turned it down, fearing its topical nature wouaar. ld hurt their careers. Starr was never much of a hit maker as a singer, so he was risking nothing, as he could just continue to write songs.

The Temptations recorded it and it is an album track. I had heard the story a little differently, that Berry didn't want to release the Tempts version as a single because of not wanting to have one of his marquee acts with that song on the radio. So they turned to one of their artists who had had a couple of hits but was far from a superstar.

The song was written by Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong

 

[gr8oldies]

I got caught in thread drift once after a big snowstorm. Could not leave t he house for three or four days.

Now we have a whole app called Threads

 

[gr8oldies]

Interesting choice, since they'd just hit with "Ball of Confusion".foe

As I mentioned above, the Tempts did indeed record the song before Starr and it was on one of their albums. There were requests for a single release, but the label didn't want the Temptations version as a single, so Norman Whitfield tapped Edwin Starr (hits being "25 Miles" and S.O.S. (Stop Her on Sight), and "Agent Double-O Soul a " to re-do the song. As Motown did, they attempted a sound-alike follow-up in "Stop the War Now".

 

[CTListener]

As I mentioned above, the Tempts did indeed record the song before Starr and it was on one of their albums. There were requests for a single release, but the label didn't want the Temptations version as a single, so Norman Whitfield tapped Edwin Starr (hits being "25 Miles" and S.O.S. (Stop Her on Sight), and "Agent Double-O Soul a " to re-do the song. As Motown did, they attempted a sound-alike follow-up in "Stop the War Now".

It had been a while since I'd read the "War" story and I should have looked it up again before posting. Sorry about that. Could have sworn that Starr was the writer! Norman Whitfield, as producer and songwriter, definitely took the Temps in a more socially conscious direction. It worked for a while, but the bloated, self-important "Masterpiece" killed all the momentum.

 

[gr8oldies]

It had been a while since I'd read the "War" story and I should have looked it up again before posting. Sorry about that. Could have sworn that Starr was the writer! Norman Whitfield, as producer and songwriter, definitely took the Temps in a more socially conscious direction. It worked for a while, but the bloated, self-important "Masterpiece" killed all the momentum.

There's a jock who worked for both WKNR and CKLW who sat in on the recording session. Can you imagine witnessing that?

 

[CTListener]

There's a jock who worked for both WKNR and CKLW who sat in on the recording session. Can you imagine witnessing that?

For "War" or "Masterpiece"?

 

[brokentuner]

Is it, though?

KRTH is number one for the second month in a row.

WCBS-FM is fourth in New York.

KOLA is number one in Riverside/San Bernardino.

KJEB is number two in Seattle.

KONO is number one in San Antonio.

KQQL is third in Minneapolis.

KXKL is number two in Denver.


....and those are just the stations mentioned in the Sean Ross piece as having modernized their music.



Looks like literally anything but a disaster.

Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t a lot of Classic Hits stations rolling during covid? I feel like there was a resurgence during the pandemic.

 

[tall_guy1]

The aim for Oldies…now Classic Hits…is not an arbitrary number of years but whatever 35-45 year olds want to hear right now. If that ends up being a five year old record, you play it.

No station plays anything that new in the format, though. A lot of stations like AC cover the ground for that age range in terms of newer music. Also, there is very little music from the time period even on this station from when that age range was growing up, and most classic hits are barely entering the '90s, which means as of now whatever 35 to 45 years old want to hear is absolutely nothing from when they were growing up, which I find hard to believe. That sounds like it came from some sort of textbook.