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Jack FM is here in Jacksonville
- Thread starter jpm3002
- Start date
I'm saddened that some people have placed Classic Rock 94.1 on a death watch. That's the best pure classic rock station this area's had since Big 106.5. For those who haven't heard it, it's different from The Eagle and Rock 105, because they do ONE genre. (Just speaking as a listener here, and not an armchair radio executive!)
901Rocks said:
Let's be real here. No one is expecting Rock 94.1 to vanish in the near future. It doesn't have a long enough track record. But if it did flip, those of you who like the format/station would be pissed using the same arguments many of us out here are using in the case of Magic 107-3. As for Rock 104-5 - win, lose or draw - at least the company seems to be giving it enough time. What I will stand by is my belief that the decision to flip WSOS to classic rock was not a good one for the cluster and the market. But that's old news now. That decision was made and TR is not in the habit of changing course fast.
What saddens me is actually the use of the word "saddened" as it applies to bringing classic hits back. It's not that WSOS is on a deathbed but how much more fragmented can it get? Jax has a new rock alternative station, an active rock station, a classic rock hits station, a "pure" classic rock station and now Jack with rock elements too. So, for some of us who mourn the loss of the only real classic hits in the market, somehow we are the ones who are looked upon as if we are the selfish ones. I don't get it. Demand for classic hits was real. Listeners were loyal. WJGH made some solid inroads, particularly among lucritive female demos. In the end, listeners don't have a real voice.
Marv-L.A. said:
Before I got distracted, I wanted to answer this. Jax is missing lots of formats. Company by company, here’s what I think could be a win/win for Jax.
CC – the cluster is as they want it. I’d just expect usual format tweaks ahead.
Cox – If even they realize the market is way too rock heavy, WOKV could be placed @ 104-5 and a niche format such as rhythmic AC could be home at 106.5. Everything else stays firm.
Renda – This is always the unknown variable. Past decisions will take a while to correct. WSOS performed at its best, even when it was just a St. John’s County signal, when it acted like an EZ Oldies Station/hybrid Soft AC/even classic hits. That’s where they should have gone. Changes were made that saw the shares drop for years. They blew it up instead of staying the course so we are where we are.
When I made that recommendation – I guess it was 4 years ago, it was long before Cox initiated what I saw as an effective strategy in South Florida but I saw merits for that here as well. Look at the success they have had with EZ Oldies WFEZ. Cox has partnered the station with sister AC WFLC to enhance it’s 25-54 position, just like Renda could have done with WSOS. At the same time, WFEZ has very negatively impacted classic hits WMXJ that leans a little rock. I wouldn’t think the results would be as dramatic against Eagle WJGL but that station had years of no competition. Even if a EZ Oldies/Greatest Hits WSOS chipped away a 1 share from Eagle, it would have helped WEJZ as well. Classic Rock 94.1 does nothing to protect or enhance WEJZ. In fact with classic country in the cluster as well, there is some shared audience between WMUV and WSOS – in effect cancelling each other out.
If the company saw things differently, 100.7 should have moved from rhythmic AC (Movin’ that didn’t have much of a track record at the time) to Rhythmic CHR. They could have drawn a little from the Top 40’s and from urban too. That too if you think about would have been a great sister to WEJZ.
Right now, Jax could use an Urban format that is unique to what CC is offering and we could certainly use a classic hits station, especially one that is more EZ oriented and not rock oriented. Just my take. Jax is way too rock and even country heavy. I’d love to see some changes.
I agree, JohnJax, Classic Rock 94.1 probably does nothing to enhance the Renda Jacksonville cluster. This market IS currently too Rock Heavy. From what I know, Renda's original intention with Sunny 94.1, when they shifted to "Continuous Easy Favorites" in early 2006, was to commit to the EZ format, and move the transmitter closer to Jacksonville as quickly as possible in order to achieve better market coverage. Unfortunately, the economy soured, the transmitter move was delayed, the Morning Host dismissed, most of the sales staff was released, and they eventually pulled the plug on Sunny altogether. Considering the success of The Dove in Tampa, and South Florida's New EASY 93.1 in Miami, if they had stayed the course with Sunny 94.1, Renda could have built a very good adult leaning flanker to Lite 96.1, which could have been performing quite well right now. But instead, just after they made the transmitter move, they decided to turn up the volume and go to a pure jockless "Classic Rock" format. I suppose it was their attempt to shake things up, while keeping operating costs down. IMHO, if the powers that be at Renda didn't want to keep the EZ Oldies approach, they could have transitioned Sunny 94.1 to an up tempo "Classic Hits" station, but that, most likely, would have required hiring extra "on air personalities" at a time when just the opposite was happening. The ball is in Renda's court.
that says it all..thus, the flip to a younger demo focus. But how many stations playing old music does any market need?
AnotherCat said:
A properly programmed "Oldies/Classic Hits" station can and should have a much wider appeal than the "Depends" crowd!
So the answer is: Just ONE GOOD Oldies station will do!
Of course, GOOD is subjective, and so it goes. I realize agencies still want the desirable 25 to 54 demo, but it seems to me there could be an HD-2 opportunity waiting for a broadcaster with the means to make it happen.
Oldies/Classic Hits IS mass-appeal. As in all nostalgia-based formats, 55+ folks will pull in the station to make it their own. Song choices, rotation, imaging etc., if properly done, will help ensure target demos are reached in 25-54. On the flip side, the nature of PPM is that listeners who would never listen to certain stations or formats will be counted as listening. As in the case of that Grandmother mentioned before, she could have a meter on and sit in a business place with WAPE playing in the background. BTW, the poster who talked of his grandmother liking Magic also liked Magic too...and he was born in 1989.
No one should underestimate the appeal Magic 107-3 was building in Jax. Having attended a lot of the station's promotions, I saw first hand the typical listeners. Sure, there were some around my age but then there were many who were 10-15-20 years younger. I spoke at length to many of them and the overall consensus was that it was about time Jax had a station like Magic. I won't get into too much specifics but there were a number of dayparts where Magic was #2 overall in woman - a very desirable demo. I'm sorry folks. To take this kind of potential and offer it just on HD2 - no thanks. In a market like Jax, that does not make sense.
The funny thing about Jack is it really is a different interpretation of the Greatest Hits format as it's all about variety. One of my heroes as many of you know is Brian Thomas. He actually programmed the Jack format when CBS Radio pulled the plug on oldies in NYC until they came back to their senses. His philosophy was to build today's hybrid oldies into featuring multiple decades of hit music and going deeper into artist's hits and changing out songs constantly. Jack certainly does this. But then, I've always believed CBS Radio knows and understands the potential of the format better than anyone.
What happens next? Well, CC in Jax is going through all kinds of changes. The OM is now the PD of Jack. Spots are running on TV, something that was not done for Magic. It comes down to support. if management likes a format, they will be very vested in its success.
I'd like to thank Nfladxer for defending Jax in another city board. We don't have a good radio reputation. The way a large number of loyal listeners have been treated is in a word - reprehensible. They have no voice. Christmas Day 2004 Cox pulled the plug on Cool 96.9. It was among the most listened to oldies stations in Florida. Kool was just allowed to die on the vine. I think that lasted around a year. TAMA flirted with True oldie. It was on and off, went from station to staion, then just weekends, then a talk host fill-in, then nothing. Then there was Magic. I suppose a market our size, an on-air team, wound up being a budget buster. Despite all of the jerking around, loyal listeners were finding a home. I go up and down the dial. My God, is this it? Radio is just such a weird business. Classic Country - it's been flat, yet they stay and Magic goes away. I just don't get it....
No one should underestimate the appeal Magic 107-3 was building in Jax. Having attended a lot of the station's promotions, I saw first hand the typical listeners. Sure, there were some around my age but then there were many who were 10-15-20 years younger. I spoke at length to many of them and the overall consensus was that it was about time Jax had a station like Magic. I won't get into too much specifics but there were a number of dayparts where Magic was #2 overall in woman - a very desirable demo. I'm sorry folks. To take this kind of potential and offer it just on HD2 - no thanks. In a market like Jax, that does not make sense.
The funny thing about Jack is it really is a different interpretation of the Greatest Hits format as it's all about variety. One of my heroes as many of you know is Brian Thomas. He actually programmed the Jack format when CBS Radio pulled the plug on oldies in NYC until they came back to their senses. His philosophy was to build today's hybrid oldies into featuring multiple decades of hit music and going deeper into artist's hits and changing out songs constantly. Jack certainly does this. But then, I've always believed CBS Radio knows and understands the potential of the format better than anyone.
What happens next? Well, CC in Jax is going through all kinds of changes. The OM is now the PD of Jack. Spots are running on TV, something that was not done for Magic. It comes down to support. if management likes a format, they will be very vested in its success.
I'd like to thank Nfladxer for defending Jax in another city board. We don't have a good radio reputation. The way a large number of loyal listeners have been treated is in a word - reprehensible. They have no voice. Christmas Day 2004 Cox pulled the plug on Cool 96.9. It was among the most listened to oldies stations in Florida. Kool was just allowed to die on the vine. I think that lasted around a year. TAMA flirted with True oldie. It was on and off, went from station to staion, then just weekends, then a talk host fill-in, then nothing. Then there was Magic. I suppose a market our size, an on-air team, wound up being a budget buster. Despite all of the jerking around, loyal listeners were finding a home. I go up and down the dial. My God, is this it? Radio is just such a weird business. Classic Country - it's been flat, yet they stay and Magic goes away. I just don't get it....
JohnJax, Yes, I understand that a properly programmed Oldies/Classic Hits format IS mass appeal! I agree, a Good Classic Hits station should be available on a main analog FM channel, and companion HD-1, BUT if it can't happen, for whatever reason, I was offering the HD-2 option as an alternative. Got it?! ;D It will be interesting to see if ANY Jacksonville broadcaster has the fortitude to fill the format hole created by the all to early demise of Magic 107-3. Unfortunately, most of the mega companies like Clear Channel seem to love the Jack FM type formats. Load the "researched" music in Selector, create and insert some "attitude" liners, and then let it roll on Nexgen. And here's the thing they really love: Without any airstaff! Consequently, there's no salaries, no benefits to pay, no dealing with those "prima donnas"! LOL Well, it is what it is. And whether we who have a passion for radio like it or not, if enough of the listening public buys into these robot formats, it's a done deal!
John Holcomb II said:
Since there's a high percentage of full power analog FM's without a "live and local" presence, the likelyhood of a broadcaster going "live and local" on an HD2 or HD-3 is very remote!!!! But, operating a "robo" type format, showcasing a particular music genre, is a more likely scenario. In and around the Jacksonville area, Clear Channel, in some sort of agreement with Reach Communications, has secured 3 or 4 construction permits for analog FM translators, on different frequencies, with power outputs ranging from 99 to 250 watts. Since, there must have been a reason to aquire these construction permits, you make your own conclusions!
John Holcomb II said:
Most of the most successful pop oriented, Oldies leaning, Classic Hits stations HAVE been, more or less, live and local, since their presentation usually involves personalities presenting the Oldies! This was the case with Cool 96.9, until they flipped to The Eagle, and the personality element became less important. If, for instance, Clear Channel wanted to roll out another version of "Oldies" on, say, an HD-2 channel, they could keep the personality aspect alive because of their access to "Premium Choice" - it's their pool of hand picked CC voice-track talent. Otherwise, most operators just roll the music and insert some "image" liners, and, for the most part, so far, it's been commercial free. I would speculate most operators WOULD like a new revenue stream with these available HD sub channels, but, maybe as a result of the slow economy, that hasn't been happening, because of relatively few HD radios in use. The HD Radio technology has been controversial, especially among broadcast engineers, and DX'ers. But, more auto companies are now including HD Radio capability in new vehicles, either as an option, or as a standard feature.
VT is just that. There's something 'bout that local live presents. I understand the world of entertainment has changed, and in a way i should be counting my blessings that technoligy hasn't totaly replaced anything, just made it so that there's more available without the new replacing the old.
This has been an interesting discussion. Regardless of format, listeners are speaking in one voice as to what turns them on and off. I’d like to speak to local-ism to include talent knowledge of the market. I’d also like to discuss corporate management as well. If a format that was tried in Company A winds up in Company B, no one should expect outcomes to be more successful unless Company B seriously addresses the actions that kept the format from reaching its’ full potential.
In this string, a poster pointed out that with all the Jax stations playing old music, how many does the market really need? Well, she’s actually correct. But really, it comes down to more differentiation in the music than anything else and that’s what helps set a station apart from the others.
The naysayers and those who don’t like a hybrid oldies format totally believe the Jacksonville market does not support it. Let’s look at the facts. In the first few months Magic 107-3 was on the scene, it performed extremely well in 25-54 earning a #3 spot overall. Listeners were responding to what was a significant programming hole in the market. Remember too, competition took Magic very seriously. About 6 months ago, Magic actually beat Eagle in certain female demos in AM drive and middays. Eagle responded by running TV spots. During the Christmas flip, Renda apparently didn't want to take any chances as they responded very quickly.
Early on musically, titles leaned to attracting females but there was still a wide variety of songs where 60’s, 70’s and 80’s were actually pretty well balanced. Listeners also responded the 90 minute music sweeps that ran several times a day. National contests and excess clutter didn’t exist and it’s clear that did more to promote the station than what corporate eventually dictated.
Eagle has been mentioned a few times here. Cox executes formats very well. Certainly that was the case with Eagle. With Planet literally bleeding to death with the expense of L&T and a talent roster while going commercial free to compete with X, it probably explained why it took so long to hire a PD and talent. I wouldn’t be surprised if the severance expense had to be finished before new payroll was added. That was no doubt a corporate decision but momentum and opportunity was lost.
I heard Eagle a few months back while I was in a business somewhere. They were running some kind of contest where the station would call the listener at a time of his/her preference. Wow, I thought – what an effective way to promote the station. It doesn’t waste their time. The stop sets were done so effortlessly that I didn’t notice the commercials until the music effortlessly started. Perhaps this is all corporate decision as well proving they get it right sometimes too.
Clear Channel has a different interpretation about the format than CBS Radio. CC does not subscribe to running music specials or doing something really big on holiday weekends. Recently I was reminded by someone who knows a thing or two about radio. He said listeners would rather hear a song they like and heard 1000 times than something they don’t know. No doubt that is true. But they also like to be wowed, especially in the hybrid oldies format. They weren’t enough wow in Magic as CC regional programmers played it was too safe IMO. The format BTW is moving into the 90’s. There’s a lot of room for growth. If more autonomy could have been given at a local level, I believe you would have seen far less overlap and a bit more identity.
I had a chance to speak to Tony Mann last weekend. Here’s a guy who has been in this market since 1977, give or take a year. He and others believed the early Christmas flip was a mistake. Opinions of a local team and especially for one who knows this market inside and out meant nothing. Well, Christmas was to Magic like the iceberg was to the Titanic. I looked at him as such an asset, especially in regards to helping pick the music. I would have liked to have seen Magic expand further in time musically and for Radio Now to go back a little bit further making the two true sister stations. Well, now with Jack that is apparently the case but I saw a different approach but with a RIF, Jack became the solution.
Apologies for being long-winded but what I hope changes in this market are the need to give a little more latitude and certainly more voice to those who know and understand the community served. The format could land here or could land there but if local and corporate management are even lukewarm to it, this will be another exercise and futility and continued screwing over of whom are the real clients of the business – the listeners.
In this string, a poster pointed out that with all the Jax stations playing old music, how many does the market really need? Well, she’s actually correct. But really, it comes down to more differentiation in the music than anything else and that’s what helps set a station apart from the others.
The naysayers and those who don’t like a hybrid oldies format totally believe the Jacksonville market does not support it. Let’s look at the facts. In the first few months Magic 107-3 was on the scene, it performed extremely well in 25-54 earning a #3 spot overall. Listeners were responding to what was a significant programming hole in the market. Remember too, competition took Magic very seriously. About 6 months ago, Magic actually beat Eagle in certain female demos in AM drive and middays. Eagle responded by running TV spots. During the Christmas flip, Renda apparently didn't want to take any chances as they responded very quickly.
Early on musically, titles leaned to attracting females but there was still a wide variety of songs where 60’s, 70’s and 80’s were actually pretty well balanced. Listeners also responded the 90 minute music sweeps that ran several times a day. National contests and excess clutter didn’t exist and it’s clear that did more to promote the station than what corporate eventually dictated.
Eagle has been mentioned a few times here. Cox executes formats very well. Certainly that was the case with Eagle. With Planet literally bleeding to death with the expense of L&T and a talent roster while going commercial free to compete with X, it probably explained why it took so long to hire a PD and talent. I wouldn’t be surprised if the severance expense had to be finished before new payroll was added. That was no doubt a corporate decision but momentum and opportunity was lost.
I heard Eagle a few months back while I was in a business somewhere. They were running some kind of contest where the station would call the listener at a time of his/her preference. Wow, I thought – what an effective way to promote the station. It doesn’t waste their time. The stop sets were done so effortlessly that I didn’t notice the commercials until the music effortlessly started. Perhaps this is all corporate decision as well proving they get it right sometimes too.
Clear Channel has a different interpretation about the format than CBS Radio. CC does not subscribe to running music specials or doing something really big on holiday weekends. Recently I was reminded by someone who knows a thing or two about radio. He said listeners would rather hear a song they like and heard 1000 times than something they don’t know. No doubt that is true. But they also like to be wowed, especially in the hybrid oldies format. They weren’t enough wow in Magic as CC regional programmers played it was too safe IMO. The format BTW is moving into the 90’s. There’s a lot of room for growth. If more autonomy could have been given at a local level, I believe you would have seen far less overlap and a bit more identity.
I had a chance to speak to Tony Mann last weekend. Here’s a guy who has been in this market since 1977, give or take a year. He and others believed the early Christmas flip was a mistake. Opinions of a local team and especially for one who knows this market inside and out meant nothing. Well, Christmas was to Magic like the iceberg was to the Titanic. I looked at him as such an asset, especially in regards to helping pick the music. I would have liked to have seen Magic expand further in time musically and for Radio Now to go back a little bit further making the two true sister stations. Well, now with Jack that is apparently the case but I saw a different approach but with a RIF, Jack became the solution.
Apologies for being long-winded but what I hope changes in this market are the need to give a little more latitude and certainly more voice to those who know and understand the community served. The format could land here or could land there but if local and corporate management are even lukewarm to it, this will be another exercise and futility and continued screwing over of whom are the real clients of the business – the listeners.
JohnJax, As usual, your observations are well taken. However, from my observation, having spent many years in the broadcasting business, Clear Channel, and some of the other large radio groups, seem to be operating from a central authority. This has given rise to "cookie cutter" formats across the country, and more so than not, leaves the local programmers following orders. It seems to be the exception, rather than the rule, that a local OM or PD, is given much latitude to make large programming decisions. I agree, that you would think radio personalities who have spent many years in a given market, who've built a following, become part of the community, and have valuable market knowledge, would be a tremendous asset to any local station. But, unfortunately, "experience" is not always viewed that way in the world of radio. Needless to say, Radio is a "unique" business that way. There IS a Classic Hits/Oldies hole in this market again, and an opportunity for a smart broadcaster to gain audience share and market revenue, if done correctly! Oh, and one more thing, there IS experienced, local, knowledgeable talent available RIGHT NOW, to help make it happen!
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