Re: what's the problem with Hispanics?
>
> Oh so now we're heading in the prejudiced direction. People
> of Hispanic heritage are as much American as anyone. They
> are however an immigrant community who came to the US with
> their own language and culture. That doesn't make them
> better or worse than someone born in Kew Gardens. BUT, WADO
> and other Spanish language stations do NOT appeal to the
> average NYer because... WE CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE
> SAYING!!! Most New Yorkers do not speak Spanish and so the
> appeal of such stations is to a minority population. That
> has nothing to do with whether it had more or fewer
> listeners than WOR, or WPOW or any other NY station.
I really, truly do not see what difference that makes. All stations that can be heard in a market are seeking part of the 100% of listening share that is available, whether they be in different languages or formats, talk or music, AM, or FM or satellite.
A Methodist Christian station would similarly be limited... there are only a few percent of the people in NYC who are Methodist or who might be intereted in a Methodist message.
Similarly, a classical music staiton has a disadvantage. Classical music is waning, and very few younger people have been exposed to it. So such a station is at a disadvantage.
On the other hand, nearly one out of every four New Yorkers is Hispanic, and a good percentage of them speak Spanish. This population is growing, while the non-Hispanic white population is not, so the chances for a number of spanish staitons making the top 10 is incredibly large in the next few years, as is the pobability of more Spanish stations being started, since every new one grows the total Spanish shares.
Being a station in Spanish in NY is not a disadvantage, any more than being a station in English is a disadbvantage in McAllen.
>
> >
> > Arbitron finds there are 23% Hispanics in NY. They send
> out
> > 23% of the Diaries to Hispanics. It must be that they are
> > New Yorkers, too.
>
>
> Gee, someone is very defensive. I'm no bigot and bigotry has
> nothing to do with this discussion.
Well, I still can not figure out why you dismiss Spanish staitons as inferior. The go for the same shares all other staitons do, and are sucessful. Now that Arbitron has fixed many aspects of ethnic measurement, these staitons have a greater chance to actually have their audiences reflected in the ratings.
> >
> > > The majority of NYers
> > > do not speak or understand Spanish.
> >
> > What difference does the language issue make? WADO is as
> > much a part of the NY market as its format equivalents,
> WOR
> > and WABC.
>
> Because WOR AND WABC are English language stations and
> although not written in law as it is in many country's,
> ENGLISH is the (semi)official language of this country and
> the one most citizens of the United States speak. It's also
> the language my Great Grandparents had to learn in the
> 1800's to become part of American society. That doesn't make
> English better or worse but as is seen in Canada, language
> can be a very divisive subject.
But we are talking about radio, not the social aspects of language usage. The issue is that Spanish staitons compete very successfully... I gave several examples and there will be more as the Hispanic population in NYC continues to grow faster than the general market, and language usage of Spanish increases.
Simply stated, a 2.4 is a 2.4 no matter whether the staiton is in English, Spanish or Russian. And that 2.4 is 2.4% of the total listening that is not going to a different station.
> >
> >
> > Yet WADO for decades has beaten whatever was on 1190, and
> > has beaten close to WCBS on a number of occasions. It
> > certainly beat 50 kw WQEW all the time.
>
> Well congratulations are in order. WQEW is a 24 hour
> infomercial aimed at very young children.
It was big big band and standards, andbefore that, classical. WADO pretty consistently beat it.
> A very narrow
> market. There are hundreds of English language stations
> which can be heard in the NY market.
It is very conclusively proven that people will not listen to signals that can be heard, but only signals that can be heard well. 70 dbu on FM accounts ofr over 80% of the AQH listening, like 10 mv/m on AM does the same in urban environments. There is very little outside that.
40 commercial stations show up in the NY book, and a handful of non-coms do as well... I did not take time to count them. Thee are not hundreds that have any chance of achieving even residual levels in NY. 57 stations, including non coms, got enough listening to get a 0.2 share (below minimum for being in the book) and many of htose do not fully cover the market of portions of it.
Of these, 4 FMs and several AMs are fulltime Spanish, with another handful at the fringes (Bridgeport, etc).
Of the stations with a 1 share or more, there are 25, including non-coms, based on the average of the last 5 books. 5 are in Spanish. That mirrors almost exactly the percentage of Hispanics who are speaking Spanish in the NY metro...
> How many Spanish
> stations are there? maybe five or six? You can't compare the
> competition for English language radio with that of Spanish
> or Polish which has 2 NY area stations simulcasting
> programming from Chicago. By the way, 12+ WOR beat WADO in
> the latest book.
I was talking about when I programmed it. You question, several iterations of this message ago, asked my whether I had actually programmed in NY. WCAA/WZAA beats WCBS FM, WCBS, WFAN, WOR, WPLJ and about 50 more of the rated stations in NY.... as do WPAT and WSKQ.
Were there 6 CHR stations, Z-100 would be fragmented, and non might be in the top 30 stations. This is more about formats than it is about language.
>
> >
> >
> Hmm, I'll have to look into this. I don't doubt the billing
> but which is bigger? NY stations are the flagships and
>
> >>
> > What significant radio networks are in NY? Premiere and
> > Westwood are in LA!
>
> WRONG, Westwood one is in NYC.
All Westwood operations, all major management and most orogramming comes out of LA. As does Premiere management, programming coordination and many of the shows. No one wants to be in NY due to cost.
> Only formats come from
> Valencia and they appeal to small market stations. ABC, CBS,
> NBC, PBS, Fox, HBO, etc etc are all based in NYC.
Much of PBS is in Washington. HBO is not a radio network.
If you talk TV, nearly all TV operations are in LA, particularly programming and decision making on programming. NY operations are still needed since the larger national agencies are there, but this is changing too.
>
> >
> > Clear Channel is in San Antonio, Emmis and Univision are
> in
> > LA, SBS is in Miami, so the biggest station gfroups and
> many
> > of the others are not based in NY
>
> WRONG!!!
Only infinity among the big owners is in NY.
Radio One is in the DC area. Emmis is in LA, Univision is in LA, Clear is in Texas, Cumulus is in Atlanta, Cox is in Atlanta, Entercom is in Philly, SBS is in Miami, ABC is in Dallas, Saga is in Detroit, etc. Most radio companies can not afford to HQ in NY due to costs.
> >
> I never said less important, but it must be pointed out that
> the billing for Spanish language stations is nowhere near
> that for top rated English stations and even though LA has
> some top ten billing stations, I believe many of the top
> billing station are in NYC, WLTW and WFAN being amongst
> them.
WSKQ has consistently biller dover $40 million ove rhte last 5 or 6 years, and it is at parity with other stations with comparable ratings and salable demos. The stations that underperform are ones like Hot and Power, because the demos are very young. WADO, WPAT and WCAA all perform with close to 1 to 1 power ratios.
WLTW is and has been #1 in NY for a long time. Being #1 allows you to grab a lot of low hanging fruit, and the station has very salable demos. WFAN is a bad example, as sports stations overperform in nearly every large sports-fanatic metro due to the huge amount of advertising targeted at 25-44 men.
In general, most stations that deliver well in 25-54 will get a proportion of advertising commensurate with thier commercial station share (since non coms do not compete here). While Spanish and Black stations had issues a decade or more ago, this is 2005 and in some markets, like Miami and Houston, Spanish stations outperform the market average... which is where it is headed in NY, too.
> Look David, I'm not a bigot and to have you allude to
> such is disturbing to say the least. You have no idea who I
> am or anything about me but you make assumptions because you
> don't like the counter points I've given to some of your
> statements. WADO, WBNX and hey, WZRC (Korean) are all NY
> stations. So was WEVD in its day as the station which speaks
> your language. Geography does not make a radio station a
> general market facility. For the vast number of NY citizens
> Spanish is a foreign language. That's not an insult. It's a
> fact.
My point: there are only 100 share points abailable. Around 15 of them will go to Spanish stations, and, thus, are not available to English stations. Spanish staitons compete just as much as any other station in the market... as the real issue is format, where language may or may not be a component. I'd rather take a full B FM to Spanish today than be Jack, for example.
>
