I know they're somewhat cookie cutter, but last time I went to Palm Bay I enjoyed listening to Oldies 103.7/WQOL at the Treasure Coast. There's just something about oldies and the beach that I love. 
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Jacksonville
- Thread starter nuffsaid
- Start date
carolinaradio said:
You've brought this up a number of times and let me throw out what I think happened. When Jack was launched, the station sounded like a typical variety hits format that included lots of genres of music over multiple decades. There were a good number of pop-oriented hits too, especially from the late 80's through the 90's. In social media, I noticed a number of RadioNow listeners who were liking what they were hearing on Jack. Perhaps ratings were showing some erosion of upper end RadioNow listeners to Jack.
One of the RadioNow jocks is the promotions guy for Jack. It's entirely possible in his interaction with Jack listeners and/or taking calls on the air @RadioNow that things were getting a bit too close for comfort. Perhaps this explains the increased rock slant.
When I've read about what consultants etc. have said about variety hits is the road to success starts with getting listeners to add the station to car presets. If you lean rock, perhaps all those rock lovers will take you in too. Nowadays, most people listen to lots of stations and cume is shared all over the place so maybe that's the answer too. The other thing too is with the format so new, perhaps they are just trying to get a core audience and going from there. They may be just throwing things on the wall and seeing what works. Maybe they don't have a clue what they are doing. Anything is possible, especially for CC Jax.
JohnJax said:
LOL! JohnJax, well said! Hopefully it's not my imagination, but I've noticed that when Magic 107-3 was still going strong, 96-9 The Eagle started leaning a bit more "Classic Rock", but since Magic went away, and with the subsequent launch of Jack-FM and their more "Rock" heavy variety hits, The Eagle seems to be sounding more "Classic Hits", if you get my drift. The OM/PD seems to be adjusting the rotation in response to the competition, a clever "balancing" act!
I know tons of markets with variety hits where they have a sister station that is a CHR (including recent CC Variety Hits startups in Miami, Charlotte, and Boston). Maybe this is true in Jacksonville since RadioNow is more of an adult friendly CHR. It seems to me, though, that Clear would have forseen this before they launched Jack.JohnJax said:
With Jacksonville having 5 rock or rock-based stations, 3 of which are classic, one will have to give, at least in the classic arena. Which one, will be the question. Is Classic Rock 94.1 reacting any to the recent changes? I have no way of knowing what they are playing until I'm down there next month.
The last two posters have raised some interesting points. Cox and CC are major radio owners in Jax. But that’s where the similarities end. Cox is well-run and CC Jax is in a word – dysfunctional.
Cox’s Eagle probably utilizes several versions of a playlist depending on market conditions etc. Prior to Magic 107-3 coming to market, Eagle was leaning a little heavy. Within a day, Eagle sounded like they did when they launched – super safe titles and more classic hits sounding. At the time, Magic went commercial free at 8AM and Eagle immediately did the same moving “the flight” from 8:30 to go head –to-head with Magic.
It continues to show a company and local management is solidly behind their product. Through the years, Eagle has been tweaked and refined. But their overall sound has remained consistent and listeners never got uneasy and so they stayed loyal. Eagle is too one dimensional and boring for my taste but it proves that when a company and local management are vested in a station/format success, the odds greatly increase that station/format will indeed be successful.
Without getting bogged down in lots of details, Magic was not as fortunate as Eagle. There was way too much interference and every few months, despite any building momentum, the overall sound kept changing. Sometimes they were WEJZ-ish, sometimes they were Eagle-ish. Senior management should have known better. They turned a deaf ear to a team who had a lot of smarts. So now the 4th format is in place @107-3 over the last few years.
So now there is Jack and I swear they sound different month-to-month to month. I was serious when I said they are just throwing things out there to see what works. Apparently, there is no learning curve for them. They brought in a MM who knew squat. He gets demoted to sales. The OM/PD of Jack lasted about a month doing the format. Now, who knows who handles programming? With everyone wearing multiple hats nowadays, maybe someone from RadioNow is involved in Jack’s operation. A new MM is brought in and all the dirty work is done. I’d say they are dysfunctional with all these rapid changes.
I agree with many of you that our market is way beyond being too rock heavy and something "should give." Jack should never have happened @107-3. Say what you will but Magic performed far better than many doing the format elsewhere. I have no idea what is coming next but I’m just so tired of incompetence, over-serving strategies and market manipulation. Just look to the south and Sunny 105-9. They prove that a format that gets bad wraps can be innovative and exciting. It's apparent they are given latitude to be responsive to their community. Today, corporate and local management stands behind them. We haven't been as fortunate in Jax. I look at radio here and keep saying it shouldn't have to be this way.
Cox’s Eagle probably utilizes several versions of a playlist depending on market conditions etc. Prior to Magic 107-3 coming to market, Eagle was leaning a little heavy. Within a day, Eagle sounded like they did when they launched – super safe titles and more classic hits sounding. At the time, Magic went commercial free at 8AM and Eagle immediately did the same moving “the flight” from 8:30 to go head –to-head with Magic.
It continues to show a company and local management is solidly behind their product. Through the years, Eagle has been tweaked and refined. But their overall sound has remained consistent and listeners never got uneasy and so they stayed loyal. Eagle is too one dimensional and boring for my taste but it proves that when a company and local management are vested in a station/format success, the odds greatly increase that station/format will indeed be successful.
Without getting bogged down in lots of details, Magic was not as fortunate as Eagle. There was way too much interference and every few months, despite any building momentum, the overall sound kept changing. Sometimes they were WEJZ-ish, sometimes they were Eagle-ish. Senior management should have known better. They turned a deaf ear to a team who had a lot of smarts. So now the 4th format is in place @107-3 over the last few years.
So now there is Jack and I swear they sound different month-to-month to month. I was serious when I said they are just throwing things out there to see what works. Apparently, there is no learning curve for them. They brought in a MM who knew squat. He gets demoted to sales. The OM/PD of Jack lasted about a month doing the format. Now, who knows who handles programming? With everyone wearing multiple hats nowadays, maybe someone from RadioNow is involved in Jack’s operation. A new MM is brought in and all the dirty work is done. I’d say they are dysfunctional with all these rapid changes.
I agree with many of you that our market is way beyond being too rock heavy and something "should give." Jack should never have happened @107-3. Say what you will but Magic performed far better than many doing the format elsewhere. I have no idea what is coming next but I’m just so tired of incompetence, over-serving strategies and market manipulation. Just look to the south and Sunny 105-9. They prove that a format that gets bad wraps can be innovative and exciting. It's apparent they are given latitude to be responsive to their community. Today, corporate and local management stands behind them. We haven't been as fortunate in Jax. I look at radio here and keep saying it shouldn't have to be this way.
JohnJax said:
Amen, Brother!
Again, JohnJax has pretty much summed up the current Jacksonville radio scene! There's no doubt that Cox Media is the only major player that seems to be hitting on all cylinders in the market right now. And, with their upcoming takeover of two major TV properties in Jax, it will be interesting to see how their increased presence plays out! 8)I agree with you analysis, JohnJax. If only Magic 107.3 had been given the countless chances and time that Magic ("Majic") 102.7 down in Miami has been given...Lincoln Financial also does a very good job with that station. I don't like The Eagle, either. They play a lot of good songs, but it doesn't have enough variety of other genres for my tastes. Magic 107.3 was a unique classic hits station for Clear Channel - they seem to have treated their others in PPM markets much better, and they are all successful.
Speaking of 107.3, WWJK got a 5.4 in the last PPM. I guess whatever they are doing is working for them. Where those listeners are coming from would be interesting - both of the Cox rockers are down, but I don't think the audience is coming from there as much as WJGL and WSOS.
Could WFYV be a candidate for a flip? Both it and WXXJ are down, but 'FYV's numbers are bad, especially.
Speaking of 107.3, WWJK got a 5.4 in the last PPM. I guess whatever they are doing is working for them. Where those listeners are coming from would be interesting - both of the Cox rockers are down, but I don't think the audience is coming from there as much as WJGL and WSOS.
Could WFYV be a candidate for a flip? Both it and WXXJ are down, but 'FYV's numbers are bad, especially.
carolinaradio said:
Yes, It's way too bad that Magic 107-3 was never really given the chance to succeed. As has been discussed, there were too many changes in formatic presentation, and too many changes behind the scenes. Overall, Magic had the right talent, with the right knowledge, on air, and there was more available locally, had the powers that be wanted to take advantage of it, and really build Magic into the major player it could have been!
carolinaradio said:
Carolinaradio, This question has come up again and again! Even with the over abundance of Rock choices availabe in Jax right now, Cox seems to be sticking with WFYV. Although, I'm guessing contingency plans are in place at the top levels in programming!
otharadioman said:
It's interesting to note that Clear Channel recently upgraded their translator at 106.9 FM, and is now broadcasting WFXJ with a rather good signal (at least in my car radio) over a large section of Jacksonville, especially the Southside and the Beaches. With their strong connections to Premier radio, Clear Channel could consider talk, but with WOKV's dominance, this doesn't make much sense. Especially considering that many Sports radio stations are capable of scoring (no pun intended) healthy revenue without large numbers. Right? Wrong? In any event, unless Clear Channel wants to sell or LMA AM 930 WFXJ, I'm not seeing many options. ;D
carolinaradio said:
If given a choice between dumping the mainstream rocker or the supposed alternative station, I'd be dumping the alternative first. Less broad based appeal.
G
The ratings were indeed interesting for at least the numbers we can see. I've come to the conclusion that social media is becoming a very important tool in forecasting outcomes. When Jack launched I reported on this board that I noticed a very large number of X102-9 listeners who were liking what they were hearing on Jack. The overall opinion was formats like Eagle would be impacted more. I never thought was the case. Eagle is down but their cume is up. Classic hits formats tend to trend down in Summer and the holidays. I'm also more confident in acknowledging there indeed appears to be a RadioNow factor in all of this as well.
It would seem, at least from an age perspective, that RadioNow and X102-9 share upper-end listeners (the 30 somethings). If CC noticed the same thing I did, then it would seem logical they would try to impact X more and RadioNow less so that could explain the shift from being more pop-oriented to more rock oriented. I remember an X102-9 listener on Jack's FB page actually saying "more rock, less pop." Here's something else to think about. A number of times in my visits to CC Jax, I heard comments from a number of people who apparently liked L&T and who really hated seeing Planet go. Maybe, just maybe, a little justice is being sought - just a thought.
CC is the leader in market share and it jumped big time in the latest PPM. Rock 104-5 and X102-9 combined come under a 6 in share. While I realize, no one in their right mind makes decisions based on one book, it has to be clear that the over-serving of one genre can not be sustained. When WSOS became classic rock, I said back then that was the tipping point. Now add, rock oriented features of Jack and it is beyond ridiculous.
A number of times I asked this question and no one has yet to answer it. Can format elements of X102-9 and Rock 104-5 be combined to create some kind of super rock station? I can understand the reluctance to blow up a 3 decade + heritage rocker but as Upstate points out, if there is a choice to be made perhaps it is X. If combining two genres of rock does exist and is successful elsewhere then it would seem logical that can happen here as well.
As far as where Renda may stand in the ratings, this is just a guess based on past performance and given this time of year. AC generally trends down in the summer so I'd say WEJZ could be around a 7.5 share. WAPE has been impacted by RadioNow. I expected them to be #1 overall. For Country, I've noticed that when WQIK goes up, WGNE usually goes down but they are pretty neck and neck so I'd put WGNE around a 6.5 share. WMUV (Classic country) has a track record of being flat so I'm sure they are in the low 3's. WSOS is probably around a 2 share, if even that much. I wish we can get all the numbers too.
To answer what's next for Jax, I just wish we could go back and reverse what Renda did @WSOS and what CC did at 107.3. I still say we would all be better off.
It would seem, at least from an age perspective, that RadioNow and X102-9 share upper-end listeners (the 30 somethings). If CC noticed the same thing I did, then it would seem logical they would try to impact X more and RadioNow less so that could explain the shift from being more pop-oriented to more rock oriented. I remember an X102-9 listener on Jack's FB page actually saying "more rock, less pop." Here's something else to think about. A number of times in my visits to CC Jax, I heard comments from a number of people who apparently liked L&T and who really hated seeing Planet go. Maybe, just maybe, a little justice is being sought - just a thought.
CC is the leader in market share and it jumped big time in the latest PPM. Rock 104-5 and X102-9 combined come under a 6 in share. While I realize, no one in their right mind makes decisions based on one book, it has to be clear that the over-serving of one genre can not be sustained. When WSOS became classic rock, I said back then that was the tipping point. Now add, rock oriented features of Jack and it is beyond ridiculous.
A number of times I asked this question and no one has yet to answer it. Can format elements of X102-9 and Rock 104-5 be combined to create some kind of super rock station? I can understand the reluctance to blow up a 3 decade + heritage rocker but as Upstate points out, if there is a choice to be made perhaps it is X. If combining two genres of rock does exist and is successful elsewhere then it would seem logical that can happen here as well.
As far as where Renda may stand in the ratings, this is just a guess based on past performance and given this time of year. AC generally trends down in the summer so I'd say WEJZ could be around a 7.5 share. WAPE has been impacted by RadioNow. I expected them to be #1 overall. For Country, I've noticed that when WQIK goes up, WGNE usually goes down but they are pretty neck and neck so I'd put WGNE around a 6.5 share. WMUV (Classic country) has a track record of being flat so I'm sure they are in the low 3's. WSOS is probably around a 2 share, if even that much. I wish we can get all the numbers too.
To answer what's next for Jax, I just wish we could go back and reverse what Renda did @WSOS and what CC did at 107.3. I still say we would all be better off.
JohnJax said:
Look what happened in New York when CBS Radio reversed its terrible decision to blow up WCBS-FM! Now it's back, successful, and a very healthy part of the NY Radio landscape! Although I agree that WSOS-FM was better off as Sunny 94.1, and 107.3 was heading in the right direction and building audience share as Magic 107-3, the main difference is the New York listeners let their unhappiness with CBS's demise be known! If there were more JohnJax's and Carolinaradio's hammering the local managers, then it's possible something might happen, but I'm betting, not probable! The current crop of managers occuping the corner offices seem mainly concerned with dollars, not programming, and keeping their own gigs
PPM is the problem. Of course all the "safe" stations playing the same OLD worn out music will get higher numbers that way. Just 'cause I'm standing near a radio playing more "classic hits" (yawn) in a store or somewhere, and my meter hears it, doesn't mean I actually LISTEN to that stuff. X102.9 needs to stay put. To me it's the only thing, since the demise of Planet. I'm sure there's more that feel this way, than these numbers will ever represent. JMHO
Totally agree. I maintain that WSOS is the weakest of all of the rock or rock leaning stations. However, I do give them credit for living up to what they claim to be, classic rock. I simply believe that signal needs a format unique to the market and classic rock was a flat out bad choice. Had CC not had the format at the time, classic hits would have been a no-brainer when the station changed formats last year. WEJZ has been pretty "hot" (in tempo) lately compared to the past, and I think that format would help serve as a buffer for its bigger sister while not snagging much audience away from it. If I had a dollar for every time I've said that, though ...JohnJax said:
Cox has definitely stuck with 'FYV, but its ratings are getting pretty bad. I would expect that if things don't improve or stay the same there, we will see something happen. I don't know about merging them. With X as Alternative and Rock as Mainstream, I suppose they could go with Active Rock, which is what Planet was. I guess it comes down to what each station is billing, and if they want to sacrifice that by messing with both. X102-9 has maintained a lead over Rock 104.5 in the recent books, but both are declining, something is wrong.
WSOS, if I recall, was getting around the mid-upper 1's in its last published PPM's. With Jack on the scene with its current lean, I'd speculate they're in the mid-1's. I agree with your guesses on WEJZ and WGNE.JohnJax said:
carolinaradio said:
Before they had moved the WSOS transmitter closer to Jacksonville, I talked to the Renda OM about the possibility of Sunny 94.1 shifting to a more uptempo "Sunny", like in Orlando, and becoming "Jacksonville's Greatest Hits"! My point was exactly what you brought up - something missing and/or unique to the market was needed to attract listeners to a weaker signal. But, CC made their move sooner, Renda didn't, and you know the rest of the story!
Jacksonville isn't the only city with these issues. Other than CBS oldies/ greatest hits is a largely avoided format anymore. Most companies prefer 70's and 80's Classic Rock formats over Oldies. Same with Soft AC stations, stations such as WDUV and Easy 93.1 are becoming almost extinct anymore. Even mainstream AC's like KTK are now playing Joan Jett and AC/DC.
Formats that were once soft are adding harder rock to their playlists. Classic Rock is getting preference over Greatest Hits and Oldies formats.
If Cox were to dismantle Rock 104-5 I would replace it with Oldies. Duplicated after Cox's KONO 101.1 out of San Antonio, link is below.
http://www.kono1011.com/
Cities across the United States are saturated with stations playing the same Def Leppard songs over and over. Play me some of the Greatest Songs of all time. Music I can dance to, cry to, sing along to and so on.
Formats that were once soft are adding harder rock to their playlists. Classic Rock is getting preference over Greatest Hits and Oldies formats.
If Cox were to dismantle Rock 104-5 I would replace it with Oldies. Duplicated after Cox's KONO 101.1 out of San Antonio, link is below.
http://www.kono1011.com/
Cities across the United States are saturated with stations playing the same Def Leppard songs over and over. Play me some of the Greatest Songs of all time. Music I can dance to, cry to, sing along to and so on.
I wouldn't say Classic Hits is going the way of Soft AC. More markets have classic hits stations than not (outside of the southeast). In addition to CBS, Clear Channel is committed to the format in a quite a few large markets, but saw opportunity elsewhere in Jacksonville. Cumulus is also, as well as many smaller operators. If you look to the north, midwest, and west, you'll see that the format is much more prominent, and in many cases, more successful than in the south.
Classic Hits stations are less prominent in the southeast (sans Florida), for various reasons I have seen mentioned here that could be debated (younger demographics due to transplants from the north, higher popularity of country music, higher ethnic populations), etc. Atlanta could be an example of that; it had all of those factors working against its last classic hits format that eventually changed formats this year after its classic hits station had lukewarm performance. My home market, Greenville SC, lacks a classic hits station (but does have a VERY classic hits leaning variety hits outlet). However, I feel that Jacksonville definitely has the demographics to support such a format. I feel there is more viability in Classic Hits (mainstream, not like Eagle) than Soft AC.
I have noticed that greatest/classic hits stations keep the tempo up WAY more than "oldies" stations used to - most of the greatest hits/classic hits stations, like Majic 102.7, SunnyFM, Q105, etc. are heavy on classic rock, disco, R&B/funk, new wave, etc. elements, and only play very popular "slower" hits ("Lean On Me", "Let's Stay Together", "Dancing In The Moonlight" are good examples). Soft music is definitely disappearing from Mainstream AC, even.
KONO is a good station and is probably what Cool 96.9 would sound like if it were still been around. I just have concerns Cox would not attempt it due to the fact it would share a ton of audience with 96.9 The Eagle.
Classic Hits stations are less prominent in the southeast (sans Florida), for various reasons I have seen mentioned here that could be debated (younger demographics due to transplants from the north, higher popularity of country music, higher ethnic populations), etc. Atlanta could be an example of that; it had all of those factors working against its last classic hits format that eventually changed formats this year after its classic hits station had lukewarm performance. My home market, Greenville SC, lacks a classic hits station (but does have a VERY classic hits leaning variety hits outlet). However, I feel that Jacksonville definitely has the demographics to support such a format. I feel there is more viability in Classic Hits (mainstream, not like Eagle) than Soft AC.
I have noticed that greatest/classic hits stations keep the tempo up WAY more than "oldies" stations used to - most of the greatest hits/classic hits stations, like Majic 102.7, SunnyFM, Q105, etc. are heavy on classic rock, disco, R&B/funk, new wave, etc. elements, and only play very popular "slower" hits ("Lean On Me", "Let's Stay Together", "Dancing In The Moonlight" are good examples). Soft music is definitely disappearing from Mainstream AC, even.
KONO is a good station and is probably what Cool 96.9 would sound like if it were still been around. I just have concerns Cox would not attempt it due to the fact it would share a ton of audience with 96.9 The Eagle.
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