Jacksonville

[nfladxer]

With such a strong Top 40 heritage between WAPE and WPDQ in the '60's and '70's, the rise of Y-103 in the late '70's into the '80's, plus the resurgence of WAPE, or as Power 95 in 1986 onward, Jacksonville would seem to be a perfect market for a strong Classic Hits/Oldies station. Over the years, IMHO, Cool 96.9's presentation actually got better, especially in the last 4 or 5 years before Cox blew it up to create The Eagle. Even though they've been really successful with KONO, I'm not so sure that Cox has any interest in re-creating another personality oriented Oldies station in Jacksonville, given the expense, and the fact that Eagle's success might be compromised with a real Classic Hits competitor.

 

[jpm3002]

Cox has definitely stuck with 'FYV, but its ratings are getting pretty bad. I would expect that if things don't improve or stay the same there, we will see something happen. I don't know about merging them. With X as Alternative and Rock as Mainstream, I suppose they could go with Active Rock, which is what Planet was. I guess it comes down to what each station is billing, and if they want to sacrifice that by messing with both. X102-9 has maintained a lead over Rock 104.5 in the recent books, but both are declining, something is wrong.

Rock 104.5 is bringing in a new morning show and are going to update their playlist (according to their Facebook page). Do you think this is a sign that they are going to stick with the status quo or do you think this is a last ditch effort to save it?

 

[gamefreak]

Cox has definitely stuck with 'FYV, but its ratings are getting pretty bad. I would expect that if things don't improve or stay the same there, we will see something happen. I don't know about merging them. With X as Alternative and Rock as Mainstream, I suppose they could go with Active Rock, which is what Planet was. I guess it comes down to what each station is billing, and if they want to sacrifice that by messing with both. X102-9 has maintained a lead over Rock 104.5 in the recent books, but both are declining, something is wrong.

Rock 104.5 is bringing in a new morning show and are going to update their playlist (according to their Facebook page). Do you think this is a sign that they are going to stick with the status quo or do you think this is a last ditch effort to save it?

Take a look at what 101.5 The Point in Tampa was in its final year. Cox completed revamped the playlist, added new announcers for sweepers and so on. In fact the new announcers were added 1 month before Cox blew it up to create CHR Hot 101.5. The last year was really 90's and more if you ask me.

 

[nuffsaid]

Since I am no in Jacksonville, is there an Oldies or Oldies/Classic Hits station in the Jacksonville market. Seem to recall there was a Sunny or a Magic in that market that was either AC or Classic Hits.

 

[gamefreak]

Since I am no in Jacksonville, is there an Oldies or Oldies/Classic Hits station in the Jacksonville market. Seem to recall there was a Sunny or a Magic in that market that was either AC or Classic Hits.

There was a Magic 107.3, which was Oldies. There was also Sunny 94.1, which was a soft ac. Magic got flipped to Jack FM back in April and Sunny flipped to Classic Rock last year.

 

[gamefreak]

There is a way that a KONO type greatest hits station can co-exist with the Eagle. The Eagle develops a harder edged Classic Rock playlist with music from the 60's and 70's. They can also start calling themselves "Jacksonvilles Classic Rock Station". 104.5 could be "104-5 WFYV Jacksonville, playing the soundtrack of your life."

 

[gamefreak]

Not to post too many times but what I was trying to say is that there isn't too many Soft AC stations anymore. Stations like WFEZ and WDUV are becoming more and more rare in most markets. Some of the Mainstream AC's are also starting to add heavier stuff to the playlist, as well as tune down pre-1980 material. "Let it Be" by The Beatles", "Your so Vain" by Carly Simon and "Yellow Taxi" by Joni Mitchell were playlist staples on AC Radio for years. KTK in Gainesville was one of those AC stations, leaning on a Gold-Based AC full of softer 70's music. Now the stations sounds more like Variety Hits because they now play harder Classic Rock.

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I like the softer AC formats that still play 60's and 70's tunes.

 

[carolinaradio]

Not to post too many times but what I was trying to say is that there isn't too many Soft AC stations anymore. Stations like WFEZ and WDUV are becoming more and more rare in most markets. Some of the Mainstream AC's are also starting to add heavier stuff to the playlist, as well as tune down pre-1980 material. "Let it Be" by The Beatles", "Your so Vain" by Carly Simon and "Yellow Taxi" by Joni Mitchell were playlist staples on AC Radio for years. KTK in Gainesville was one of those AC stations, leaning on a Gold-Based AC full of softer 70's music. Now the stations sounds more like Variety Hits because they now play harder Classic Rock.

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I like the softer AC formats that still play 60's and 70's tunes.

It's just the evolution of the format. It's only natural that the format begin to shed pre-80s material as it evolves (just like it shed pre-70s at one point). I think the format will eventually be extinct in many markets (squeezed out by Hot AC/CHR, Classic Hits, and Variety Hits), but I've stated that opinion enough on RI on the AC board. WEJZ has also gotten more modern and added more new songs they wouldn't have touched before; all the more reason that I feel that station could co-exist with a true "Classic Hits" station quite well. There isn't the overlap that there was just a few years ago.

Miami supports WFEZ and Tampa supports WDUV because of the large amount of retirees, I think. While WDUV does well 6+, I don't think they do very well 25-54 which is the "money" demo.

As for WFYV, Cox usually isn't quick to pull the trigger (101.5 The Point in Tampa, an exception, but the "Point" stations were dying/had died off for the most part). If they make changes and things don't improve, I see it getting blown up, though. I wonder if they're going to move in to more of an active direction?

 

[carolinaradio]

With such a strong Top 40 heritage between WAPE and WPDQ in the '60's and '70's, the rise of Y-103 in the late '70's into the '80's, plus the resurgence of WAPE, or as Power 95 in 1986 onward, Jacksonville would seem to be a perfect market for a strong Classic Hits/Oldies station. Over the years, IMHO, Cool 96.9's presentation actually got better, especially in the last 4 or 5 years before Cox blew it up to create The Eagle. Even though they've been really successful with KONO, I'm not so sure that Cox has any interest in re-creating another personality oriented Oldies station in Jacksonville, given the expense, and the fact that Eagle's success might be compromised with a real Classic Hits competitor.

Magic 107.3, IMO, wasn't a weak classic hits station, either. I have read it beat The Eagle in some key demographics. The station had more potential that it never got the chance to live up to. It takes local management's investment in a format and station for it to reach its full potential, and unfortunately, WJGH Magic 107.3 lacked that, at least in its latter months.

 

[upstate29651]

Rock 104.5 is bringing in a new morning show and are going to update their playlist (according to their Facebook page). Do you think this is a sign that they are going to stick with the status quo or do you think this is a last ditch effort to save it?

Morning show: http://www.kissrocks.com/s/billymadisonshow/ . Based out of San Antonio & fellow Cox rocker (heh heh) Kiss 99.5 (an EXCELLENT active rocker). Music to be mixed in with commentary/bits. Not a Lex & Terry for sure (but they've faded into oblivion anyway). A good morning show can be a great lead in to the rest of the day's schedule...and bring about better ratings. I wouldn't call this a "last ditch effort" to save anything.

G

 

[carolinaradio]

Rock 104.5 is bringing in a new morning show and are going to update their playlist (according to their Facebook page). Do you think this is a sign that they are going to stick with the status quo or do you think this is a last ditch effort to save it?

Morning show: http://www.kissrocks.com/s/billymadisonshow/ . Based out of San Antonio & fellow Cox rocker (heh heh) Kiss 99.5 (an EXCELLENT active rocker). Music to be mixed in with commentary/bits. Not a Lex & Terry for sure (but they've faded into oblivion anyway). A good morning show can be a great lead in to the rest of the day's schedule...and bring about better ratings. I wouldn't call this a "last ditch effort" to save anything.

G

Do you think 104.5 will go full active?

 

[vadar]

Billy who???

Is this Billy Vera and the Beaters?

;D

 

[nfladxer]

With such a strong Top 40 heritage between WAPE and WPDQ in the '60's and '70's, the rise of Y-103 in the late '70's into the '80's, plus the resurgence of WAPE, or as Power 95 in 1986 onward, Jacksonville would seem to be a perfect market for a strong Classic Hits/Oldies station. Over the years, IMHO, Cool 96.9's presentation actually got better, especially in the last 4 or 5 years before Cox blew it up to create The Eagle. Even though they've been really successful with KONO, I'm not so sure that Cox has any interest in re-creating another personality oriented Oldies station in Jacksonville, given the expense, and the fact that Eagle's success might be compromised with a real Classic Hits competitor.

Magic 107.3, IMO, wasn't a weak classic hits station, either. I have read it beat The Eagle in some key demographics. The station had more potential that it never got the chance to live up to. It takes local management's investment in a format and station for it to reach its full potential, and unfortunately, WJGH Magic 107.3 lacked that, at least in its latter months.

I indicated on an earlier post that I thought Magic 107-3 WAS headed in the right direction! Clear Channel management, at some level, apparently didn't fully support the format, and blew it up way too soon. The knowledge and talent exists in this market to make some "Cool" "Magic" shine, just like "Sunny"! ;D

 

[John FL]

Who would have ever thought the subject of Jacksonville would get this kind of response. There are lots of opinions and lots of subjects have been covered. If there is some glue that binds it all together, it’s the fact that if owners and managers are vested in the continuation of a station or format, they will make it happen. If not, well you know the rest.

Personally, I’ve had a love affair with radio going so far back that I even wonder if my ideas or even core beliefs are even relevant anymore. I’ve grown cynical about the radio business and I wish it weren’t the case.

As I read about the latest new morning show over at 104.5 and yet another playlist tweak, and yet another chance I thought if Rock 104-5 was exactly where they are today and if they had a morning show, management and high priced consultants would opt to get rid of the warm body and replace that person or team with more music and no talk in the morning and they would think they were just brilliant.

In fact, it wasn’t too long ago Rock 104-5 ran with what I thought was a very effective advertising campaign where they put the listeners in the center of it all speaking in their voice and saying we listened to you - we like music in the morning too…yadda yadda yadda. Press releases always proclaim something great is about to happen and it’s all about the listener. At any rate, there’s probably all kinds of data that says the new morning show will hit all these lucrative targets and there it is. But really, for the Rock 104-5 fans, count your blessings. Cox has given this station tons of opportunities to succeed.

As far as WEJZ advancing in time musically, it appears it was all part of a strategy. I don’t remember when this was but in whatever year Ed Fairbanks left WEJZ, the station updated their sound, became a bit more up tempo and introduced some more 80’s etc. Magic 107.3 came on the scene and some of those 70’s hits were dusted off and rotated back, probably to marginalize Magic. Maybe it’s all a big coincidence but now Magic is gone and so are some of those same songs both stations featured. There’s many displaced and loyal listeners out there but that doesn’t matter. Something is very wrong about that.

If there is anything I take from all of this in how WEJZ positioned themselves, including flipping to the Christmas format early and how Eagle responded to Magic as well. I can only conclude that both Cox and Renda regarded Magic as a formidable competitor. It’s a shame Clear Channel apparently did not see the value of what they had. Again, some stations and formats are given lots of opportunity to succeed.

We keep hearing old stuff is not viable but when you look at the radio landscape, classic rock hits is OK, country oldies is OK, classic rock is OK, oldies on AC – that’s OK too. This place is something else. I’m all for competition and winning but this town has a reputation among all 3 major owners of protecting the cash cows at all costs and to hell with stations and formats that don’t make that bonus bigger. In effect, they are saying to hell with listeners too. Something is just terribly wrong. Personally, I’m just tired of all the B.S. and the fact that a large number of listeners and creative and talented broadcasters are treated like crap.

Many of you who want a gig in radio keep pounding the pavement to get back in. I have to wonder why. For me, I have to wonder when I'll wake up one day and just say screw this...it's time to enjoy something that gives me pleasure and is fun. There is something about radio though. It's a shame it has gotten to where it is and I wish decency and caring about listeners can one day be just as important as ratings, market share and revenue.

 

[nfladxer]

Who would have ever thought the subject of Jacksonville would get this kind of response. There are lots of opinions and lots of subjects have been covered. If there is some glue that binds it all together, it’s the fact that if owners and managers are vested in the continuation of a station or format, they will make it happen. If not, well you know the rest.

Personally, I’ve had a love affair with radio going so far back that I even wonder if my ideas or even core beliefs are even relevant anymore. I’ve grown cynical about the radio business and I wish it weren’t the case.

As I read about the latest new morning show over at 104.5 and yet another playlist tweak, and yet another chance I thought if Rock 104-5 was exactly where they are today and if they had a morning show, management and high priced consultants would opt to get rid of the warm body and replace that person or team with more music and no talk in the morning and they would think they were just brilliant.

In fact, it wasn’t too long ago Rock 104-5 ran with what I thought was a very effective advertising campaign where they put the listeners in the center of it all speaking in their voice and saying we listened to you - we like music in the morning too…yadda yadda yadda. Press releases always proclaim something great is about to happen and it’s all about the listener. At any rate, there’s probably all kinds of data that says the new morning show will hit all these lucrative targets and there it is. But really, for the Rock 104-5 fans, count your blessings. Cox has given this station tons of opportunities to succeed.

As far as WEJZ advancing in time musically, it appears it was all part of a strategy. I don’t remember when this was but in whatever year Ed Fairbanks left WEJZ, the station updated their sound, became a bit more up tempo and introduced some more 80’s etc. Magic 107.3 came on the scene and some of those 70’s hits were dusted off and rotated back, probably to marginalize Magic. Maybe it’s all a big coincidence but now Magic is gone and so are some of those same songs both stations featured. There’s many displaced and loyal listeners out there but that doesn’t matter. Something is very wrong about that.

If there is anything I take from all of this in how WEJZ positioned themselves, including flipping to the Christmas format early and how Eagle responded to Magic as well. I can only conclude that both Cox and Renda regarded Magic as a formidable competitor. It’s a shame Clear Channel apparently did not see the value of what they had. Again, some stations and formats are given lots of opportunity to succeed.

We keep hearing old stuff is not viable but when you look at the radio landscape, classic rock hits is OK, country oldies is OK, classic rock is OK, oldies on AC – that’s OK too. This place is something else. I’m all for competition and winning but this town has a reputation among all 3 major owners of protecting the cash cows at all costs and to hell with stations and formats that don’t make that bonus bigger. In effect, they are saying to hell with listeners too. Something is just terribly wrong. Personally, I’m just tired of all the B.S. and the fact that a large number of listeners and creative and talented broadcasters are treated like crap.

Many of you who want a gig in radio keep pounding the pavement to get back in. I have to wonder why. For me, I have to wonder when I'll wake up one day and just say screw this...it's time to enjoy something that gives me pleasure and is fun. There is something about radio though. It's a shame it has gotten to where it is and I wish decency and caring about listeners can one day be just as important as ratings, market share and revenue.

JohnJax, Even though it may be difficult, I hope you don't lose your passion for radio! I've been blessed to have worked in a profession I love for over four decades, and, for the most part, with some great people, at some great stations! I had the opportunity to leave Jacksonville for an excellent opportunity many years ago, but, my passion and family were here in Jacksonville! While there's no doubt I made the wrong professional decision, I'll never regret staying for personal reasons. You ask why would anyone in their right mind stay in radio, or maybe even get in radio. The answer is simple. You have to be slightly crazy to want to be in it in the first place! You think the current economy is bad. Think about being involved in a career, where low salaries, insecurity, and subjectivity rule. That's radio, and, to be fair, pretty much the rule in most any form of "entertainment". But, there's always the possibility of making it big, or at least being somewhat successful. Certainly, Howard, Ryan, and Rush, come to mind. While 98 to 99% of the people on the talent side may never experience their kind of success, it does happen. You have to have a strong belief that what you are doing is right, and more importantly, your managers, PD's, etc. have to share that belief! While, I may never step into another radio studio again, I hope I do, and, if and when that happens, I hope my experience and passion will make a positive difference. And again, for the record, IMHO, a "Jacksonville's Greatest Hits" format WAS a good idea, and still is! Why in the hell Clear Channel didn't stay with the format is mystifying. I realize radio is a business, and it's always all about the money, but Jacksonville deserves to have some "Magic" on the air and available again!

 

[radiobum]

I haven't seen anyone mention that 107.3's ratings went UP in the latest book. Hmmm.

 

[nfladxer]

I haven't seen anyone mention that 107.3's ratings went UP in the latest book. Hmmm.

This is an excellent point. I'm not sure what's happened to the ratings since the launch of 107-3 Jack-FM, and although some of us preferred Magic to Jack, the reality is, as long as Clear Channel sees in increase in revenue, and a healthier bottom line, as a result of the newly installed format, management will most likely feel it was the right move.

 

[carolinaradio]

I haven't seen anyone mention that 107.3's ratings went UP in the latest book. Hmmm.

If you look back, I pointed that out a couple of pages back. I was curious about where that increase came from, and at whose expense. We don't have a very clear picture since WSOS isn't published. Maybe some of those are older listeners from WFYV.

All I can say is...Jacksonville loves to rock, apparently!

 

[carolinaradio]

But really, for the Rock 104-5 fans, count your blessings. Cox has given this station tons of opportunities to succeed.

JohnJax, I thought I would chime back in and comment on this. Cox is, for the most part, a class act and knows how to operate their stations. They give them chances (for the most part) and seem to give them the tools to succeed. Companies like Clear Channel and Cumulus throw something on the air, give it a 8 or 9 months, and if it doesn't work, try something else. Cox seems to make careful decisions and stick with them for a fair amount of time. They stuck with the "All 80s" "Point" concept way longer in a handful of markets than any other corporate company did. Yes, a lot of their stations are conservative and somewhat boring (The Eagle is a good example), but they obviously research and position their stations well for success. I think they are to be commended in many areas.

As far as WEJZ advancing in time musically, it appears it was all part of a strategy. I don’t remember when this was but in whatever year Ed Fairbanks left WEJZ, the station updated their sound, became a bit more up tempo and introduced some more 80’s etc. Magic 107.3 came on the scene and some of those 70’s hits were dusted off and rotated back, probably to marginalize Magic. Maybe it’s all a big coincidence but now Magic is gone and so are some of those same songs both stations featured. There’s many displaced and loyal listeners out there but that doesn’t matter. Something is very wrong about that.

WEJZ can't be blamed, really, for the musical advance - 70s music, while still viable on classic rock, adult hits, and classic hits, is becoming too "old" for mainstream AC everywhere and is being phased out. It's getting harder to properly program early Elton John alongside AC hits like Carly Rae Jepsen.

 

[John FL]

Carolinaradio, you bring an interesting perspective to the board. And Nfladxer, thanks for being the professional you are, being a friend to this board and to radio and your overall fellowship, especially to me.

Lots of interesting comments have been made. One of the drawbacks of forums such as this is the written words are not always understood by the readers. We all, including me, bring our own bias and interpretation to subjects but I always thought it was quite evident that we acknowledged and discussed at length the impact Jack at 107-3 was making, particularly on the Cox rock stations. If ratings weren't trending up, there would be little impact. It was probably said so as to justify the flip. Incidentally, Jack has yet to earn the highest share of its' predecessor. A good deal of the conversation was around the fact that some stations and formats, here and elsewhere, can appear to have low ratings but are given opportunity after opportunity to keep going. Apparently, that message somehow got lost in all the posts.

Early on someone mentioned PPM as being the problem with regard to the poor showing of one of Cox's rock stations. I'll go a step further. PPM is the problem - period. Any measuring device will have pros and cons but IMO Jax has taken PPM to an extreme in that little/no latitude is given to talent to use their judgement. There's also a trend today to throw out a hook like a factoid, celebrity news etc. and then to come back to it minutes later. The problem with that, especially in AM and PM drive is listeners are constantly tuning in and out. Some will probably feel lost in they are only hearing bits and pieces but this is called good radio. Also, I think it damages talent's standing with the listeners contributing to their feeling there is lots of irrelevance out there. Not good but maybe that's the plan anyway. I realize things change but after having lived in big markets all my life, when I came to Jax I thought this was just a really good radio market because it had personality. WCBS-FM was mentioned earlier. Even in the biggest market in the country, it's evident the jocks are given some leeway and it makes for better radio. PPM for Jax also clearly puts stations, such as Class A's at a total disadvantage due to our land mass. The attitude is much is not invested in them and that's not usually a win/win for listeners.

When you mentioned the Point, it may be thought Cox gave the format tons of time to perform better but I look at it differently. The Point had a lot of potential but here's another case where I believe that station and format was intentionally held back to protect WAPE. The 80's music that was presented did not really reflect that decade because it was so narrow. If they would have gone more Freestyle and pop-oriented and also moved deep into the 90's a lot earlier sounding like WAPE did back then, well they would have impacted that station no doubt. With a different owner and perhaps one who would want to see WAPE impacted, it's entirely possible the Point would still be around today. After all, 80's/90's formats are popular. Ironically too, greatest hits formats like Magic 107.3 have already progressed very deep into the 80's and they are already beginning to add early 90's titles. Viability will always be there because the format features 25-40 year old music. That "sweat spot" may keep changing over time but the concept remains the same.

As far as WEJZ goes, I'm not distressed in the fact they are dropping some 70's. It's about time. But really, it is about the timing. Personally, I wish they would have dropped the 70's all together as many other AC's around the country were doing a year ago. If you think about it, the 70's is a decade that should be represented on an oldies station to give the format breathing room and to differentiate it from the rest. Had the greatest hits format been a part of the Renda cluster, WEJZ would probably had rotated 70's far less. Those are just the facts. Some stations are protected at all costs. Others aren't so lucky. But one thing I've hoped I've proven. The MM/OM role is a very important one. These guys influence outcomes to their advantage. It may be the way it is around here but there are some exceptions around the country. Maybe this can help explain my overall distaste with the business of today's radio.