So Jenn Engel just said today's her last show. Richie Whitt says this has no connection to Greg Williams absence from KTCK. IJS...
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Jenn Engel out...
- Thread starter DroopyDave111
- Start date
WOW...that's interesting. Hmmmm day after summer book is released......What will ESPN roll out now :
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You mean filling the bill with the "Steve Dennis" show doesn't grab ya? ;D
That station is a mess, and it could be so, so much better than what it is. But unfortunately 'Big Brother' refuses to let them stay local... and when they do go local, they allow old has beens and a couple of never will bes handle up on business.
Who knows. Maybe the "Sports Princess" will make a come back.
That station is a mess, and it could be so, so much better than what it is. But unfortunately 'Big Brother' refuses to let them stay local... and when they do go local, they allow old has beens and a couple of never will bes handle up on business.
Who knows. Maybe the "Sports Princess" will make a come back.
The "Sports Princess" is currently doing mornings with a Sub-human on KFCD 990 The Sports Fan. She's the best around. He's the worst ever. Interesting dichotomy.
The Sub-human in charge of the station is telling sponsors and employees (who he hasn't paid in several months) that MICHAEL IRVIN will be the new PM drive show starting October 29.
If SOMEONE out there KNOWS Mr. Irvin, they should probably warn him that he's getting into bed with a guy who hasn't paid his employees in months, has screwed over his best clients, and who's a minimum of $250,000 in debt, has no sales staff, and hasn't managed to make a profit or make a blip in the ratings in over 10 months.
The Sub-human in charge of the station is telling sponsors and employees (who he hasn't paid in several months) that MICHAEL IRVIN will be the new PM drive show starting October 29.
If SOMEONE out there KNOWS Mr. Irvin, they should probably warn him that he's getting into bed with a guy who hasn't paid his employees in months, has screwed over his best clients, and who's a minimum of $250,000 in debt, has no sales staff, and hasn't managed to make a profit or make a blip in the ratings in over 10 months.
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990 is back on the air AGAIN? Wow!
Not that you could tell by listening, but apparently it's been back on since Jan. Yet failed to make a blip on the ratings radar.
I'm sure it won't be on a whole lot longer.
The station's so-called manager gets rid everyone on the air when he has to pay them. (See: Matthews, Timm--who the worst talk host in history/station manager claimed "wasn't good enough for his station.") Or they just leave because he hasn't paid them.
In addition to non-payment, there's the sexual harrassment and domestic violence charges that have police and Department of Labor people making unexpected, unscheduled visits to the station.
Run, don't walk, from this situation, folks.
I'm sure it won't be on a whole lot longer.
The station's so-called manager gets rid everyone on the air when he has to pay them. (See: Matthews, Timm--who the worst talk host in history/station manager claimed "wasn't good enough for his station.") Or they just leave because he hasn't paid them.
In addition to non-payment, there's the sexual harrassment and domestic violence charges that have police and Department of Labor people making unexpected, unscheduled visits to the station.
Run, don't walk, from this situation, folks.
Jubb05 said:I'm not a radio professional - just someone who listens, a lot. The "Press Box" on 990 is the worst radio I have ever heard. The fact that there are serious radio talents not working, and that guy is on the air proves that karma does not exist.
I second that emotion.
Not that it could happen without serious promotion, but there IS a place in Dallas for a station that wants to have local shows talking about local sports from 6a-6p.
Oh, and a sales staff would be nice, too.
GumpyJumptooth said:
Does anybody besides me remember the early days of the ticket. When they had local shows talking about local sports from not just 6am till 6pm, but from 6am till SEVEN pm.
And their ratings SUCKED. They had one good book early on, then went into a tailspin that saw them sold from their original owner to KRLD to Susquehanna. And it was only when they started doing more 'bits' and guy talk that they got successful.
Maybe there are some people that want ALL local sports all day long. But if there were, you'd think that at least one of them would show up with a diary. But almost a year and not even a sniff? Methinks there isn't as much as demand for "all sports all day" as some people think...
Well, which is it? If their ratings sucked at first, they showed up in a diary, didn't they?
And, I would submit to you that since The Ticket went guy talk--two things are true:
1. Sports talk radio has become much more robust. More of it out there, more syndication available, drawing more from the whole talk trend. All sports talk is not the strange animal it was when The Ticket debuted.
2. No station has provided Dallas with real sports talk all day since that time. And, certainly none of it done in an inventive, entertaining, or interesting manner. Just warmed over newspaper columnists and people who have failed at every station they've worked at.
Now, The Ticket is unassailable. I LOVE it. I just think there's a place for a local, non-syndicated sports station for people who like hard core sports. The difference being that a more sports oriented talk station requires people who are just as talented as the group on The Ticket, and that certainly has not been provided either.
Could it even happen? Depends. I don't think a sports-oriented station would require the heavy staffing on-air that The Ticket enjoys. But, to your point, getting good talent even in lesser numbers might be difficult.
The Fan in NYC is an example of a more sports-oriented station. Sure, Dallas ain't NYC, but I think there are still enough sports fans out there who don't need a recap of the Sopranos to perform profitably. Not to Ticket levels, but profitably.
And the truth is, we can both howl at the moon all we want, but we won't know the answer to the question until someone takes a reasonable shot at it. 990 is FAR, FAR from a reasonable shot.
Abysmal talent. Rotten on-air production value. NO PROMOTION WHATSOEVER. And a revolving door of shows.
You could well be right, but don't hang your assertion on 990. That's like seeing a crippled kid try to play soccer and claiming the sport will never catch on here.
And, I would submit to you that since The Ticket went guy talk--two things are true:
1. Sports talk radio has become much more robust. More of it out there, more syndication available, drawing more from the whole talk trend. All sports talk is not the strange animal it was when The Ticket debuted.
2. No station has provided Dallas with real sports talk all day since that time. And, certainly none of it done in an inventive, entertaining, or interesting manner. Just warmed over newspaper columnists and people who have failed at every station they've worked at.
Now, The Ticket is unassailable. I LOVE it. I just think there's a place for a local, non-syndicated sports station for people who like hard core sports. The difference being that a more sports oriented talk station requires people who are just as talented as the group on The Ticket, and that certainly has not been provided either.
Could it even happen? Depends. I don't think a sports-oriented station would require the heavy staffing on-air that The Ticket enjoys. But, to your point, getting good talent even in lesser numbers might be difficult.
The Fan in NYC is an example of a more sports-oriented station. Sure, Dallas ain't NYC, but I think there are still enough sports fans out there who don't need a recap of the Sopranos to perform profitably. Not to Ticket levels, but profitably.
And the truth is, we can both howl at the moon all we want, but we won't know the answer to the question until someone takes a reasonable shot at it. 990 is FAR, FAR from a reasonable shot.
Abysmal talent. Rotten on-air production value. NO PROMOTION WHATSOEVER. And a revolving door of shows.
You could well be right, but don't hang your assertion on 990. That's like seeing a crippled kid try to play soccer and claiming the sport will never catch on here.
I think the problem will always be that what does the hardcore sports station do in June. When the Cowboys haven't started camp yet, the Stars and Mavs have been eliminated from the playoffs and the Rangers have already been mathmatically eliminated from post-season play ;DGumpyJumptooth said:
...can you fill 12 hours a day with local sports when there are NO local sports? And that's where I give credit to KTCK. They can roll out the wall to wall coverage when it's called for, but can enetertain me in those slow times.
Because I remember the days of Skip and Coop. And I really don't need to hear "Thor" interview the Offensive line coach from SMU...It's not interesting. In more ways than one. And yeah, I'd rather hear Sopranos talk than SMU off-season football talk...
You're making my argument for me.
First, this isn't a discussion of which is better, The Ticket or an all-sports talk station. There's no model to compare The Ticket to, because as I say, no one has taken a legitimate shot at it.
Secondly, SKIP AND COOP? Please. You keep using these WAY lame examples. I'm claiming no one has given it the WFAN shot. Entertaining. Engaging. Caller-friendly. Controversial. Inventive. Yet sports focused.
Again, without someone giving it a reasonable shot, we just won't know.
As for June, hopefully, the Mavs are still active, right? ;D The Rangers are normally done by May 15.
In June, you have baseball, you have Cowboys training camp coming up--so it's a good chance to get the players before you can't GET the players--and then there's always FC Dallas. Because it IS a down time for football and perhaps basketball, it's a time to get old hall of famers and well-loved old timers on the air for "where are they now" stuff. Is the Byron around then? Arena football? There are lots of things a station can do in June.
I don't think the crucible of a sports focused talk station in Dallas is the one month of the year when sports may or may not be as active as some would like. I think it's finding a way to make whatever you talk about interesting, engaging--with callers included occassionally (Ticket & ESPN NEVER do this and WFAN has a very healthy caller base)--and a little unique.
If you're giving people good insights on sports, fresh takes on the issues, and every now and then inside info and breaking stories when sports ARE active, I think people will "coast" a bit when the news dies down (which I don't agree it ever does. There's ALWAYS something going on. Although much of it involves [insert name of athlete] being arrested for [insert name of violation] while carrying a [insert model of firearm] at [insert early morning time] while beating up a [hooker, fellow player, bar patron] outside a [strip club/church].)
If Howard Cosell were doing noon to 3p in Dallas, I'd listen EVERY DAY. That's the kind or level of talent it would take, but I think it could be done. Howard started somewhere, right? LET ME REITERATE--I don't think such a station would be a legitimate threat to The Ticket on any level. I just think it could be profitable.
I could be wrong, but I won't know--again--until someone takes a decent shot at it. I just don't think anyone has.
Easy? No. Impossible? Also no.
Thanks for the exchange o' info, though.
First, this isn't a discussion of which is better, The Ticket or an all-sports talk station. There's no model to compare The Ticket to, because as I say, no one has taken a legitimate shot at it.
Secondly, SKIP AND COOP? Please. You keep using these WAY lame examples. I'm claiming no one has given it the WFAN shot. Entertaining. Engaging. Caller-friendly. Controversial. Inventive. Yet sports focused.
Again, without someone giving it a reasonable shot, we just won't know.
As for June, hopefully, the Mavs are still active, right? ;D The Rangers are normally done by May 15.
In June, you have baseball, you have Cowboys training camp coming up--so it's a good chance to get the players before you can't GET the players--and then there's always FC Dallas. Because it IS a down time for football and perhaps basketball, it's a time to get old hall of famers and well-loved old timers on the air for "where are they now" stuff. Is the Byron around then? Arena football? There are lots of things a station can do in June.
I don't think the crucible of a sports focused talk station in Dallas is the one month of the year when sports may or may not be as active as some would like. I think it's finding a way to make whatever you talk about interesting, engaging--with callers included occassionally (Ticket & ESPN NEVER do this and WFAN has a very healthy caller base)--and a little unique.
If you're giving people good insights on sports, fresh takes on the issues, and every now and then inside info and breaking stories when sports ARE active, I think people will "coast" a bit when the news dies down (which I don't agree it ever does. There's ALWAYS something going on. Although much of it involves [insert name of athlete] being arrested for [insert name of violation] while carrying a [insert model of firearm] at [insert early morning time] while beating up a [hooker, fellow player, bar patron] outside a [strip club/church].)
If Howard Cosell were doing noon to 3p in Dallas, I'd listen EVERY DAY. That's the kind or level of talent it would take, but I think it could be done. Howard started somewhere, right? LET ME REITERATE--I don't think such a station would be a legitimate threat to The Ticket on any level. I just think it could be profitable.
I could be wrong, but I won't know--again--until someone takes a decent shot at it. I just don't think anyone has.
Easy? No. Impossible? Also no.
Thanks for the exchange o' info, though.
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GumpyJumptooth said:
Gumpy, you bring up some good points; however:
1. If Howard Cosell was just some dude named Howard you never knew, you may be liable to flip the dial on this verbosity, like soooooooooooooo many others did. That wouldn't be so good on ratings initially.
2. I understand the point, but it's the audience not the talent. There are many people in this market that love sports; regretfully, there are even more than love being a voyeur in the indie music scene, laughing about farts and looking at juggs.
3. ESPN wanted to make a full sport station, but the "leader" wouldn't let them. They drug cadavers out of the Star-Telegram closet and kept it real with all national, most of the time. This may work in Fargo, ND... not Big D. Too bad those tools can't figure that out.
Gumpy, you bring up some good points; however:
1. If Howard Cosell was just some dude named Howard you never knew, you may be liable to flip the dial on this verbosity, like soooooooooooooo many others did. That wouldn't be so good on ratings initially.
2. I understand the point, but it's the audience not the talent. There are many people in this market that love sports; regretfully, there are even more than love being a voyeur in the indie music scene, laughing about farts and looking at juggs.
3. ESPN wanted to make a full sport station, but the "leader" wouldn't let them. They drug cadavers out of the Star-Telegram closet and kept it real with all national, most of the time. This may work in Fargo, ND... not Big D. Too bad those tools can't figure that out.
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1. Cosell was one of the most spectacularly popular and spectacularly hated figures of all time. He pulled HUGE numbers during his heydey. He had his own VARIETY show at the height. And, he was the ultimate sports journalist before there were sports journalists. I'm saying he's the KIND of a talent that such a station would need.
2. I'm not really contending that the "WFAN-style" format would outperform The Ticket. I simply think there is a market--a significant if not overwhelming one--that is not being served. I have ZERO actual data to back this up, other than speaking to sports fans. I'm STUNNED when they don't like The Ticket. Their complaint most often is "they don't talk about sports." Anecdotal to be sure, but I just happen to think there's something to it, as other major cities have a serious sports talk station (which doesn't have to be boring or un-funny, or un-juggy.)
3. I'm in 100% agreement on ESPN. I still wish someone had taken a decent, legitimate, reasonable shot at what I'm talking about. Many other cities--particularly ones of Dallas' size--have such stations. If a good shot had EVER been taken, we'd know with more accuracy if it would work here.
I have a question. Is The Ticket rabidly popular because there isn't a good alternative for people who like raunchy humor and they're the best at it? In a lot of towns, that gets served by a Stern type--and I haven't heard anything here that serves this audience. Russ Martin ain't even close.
In other words--to your point--would the jugs and indie crowd be at the Ticket as heavily if there were a better alternative for them? Again, as usual, I don't have any idea. I'm just asking.
1. If Howard Cosell was just some dude named Howard you never knew, you may be liable to flip the dial on this verbosity, like soooooooooooooo many others did. That wouldn't be so good on ratings initially.
2. I understand the point, but it's the audience not the talent. There are many people in this market that love sports; regretfully, there are even more than love being a voyeur in the indie music scene, laughing about farts and looking at juggs.
3. ESPN wanted to make a full sport station, but the "leader" wouldn't let them. They drug cadavers out of the Star-Telegram closet and kept it real with all national, most of the time. This may work in Fargo, ND... not Big D. Too bad those tools can't figure that out.
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1. Cosell was one of the most spectacularly popular and spectacularly hated figures of all time. He pulled HUGE numbers during his heydey. He had his own VARIETY show at the height. And, he was the ultimate sports journalist before there were sports journalists. I'm saying he's the KIND of a talent that such a station would need.
2. I'm not really contending that the "WFAN-style" format would outperform The Ticket. I simply think there is a market--a significant if not overwhelming one--that is not being served. I have ZERO actual data to back this up, other than speaking to sports fans. I'm STUNNED when they don't like The Ticket. Their complaint most often is "they don't talk about sports." Anecdotal to be sure, but I just happen to think there's something to it, as other major cities have a serious sports talk station (which doesn't have to be boring or un-funny, or un-juggy.)
3. I'm in 100% agreement on ESPN. I still wish someone had taken a decent, legitimate, reasonable shot at what I'm talking about. Many other cities--particularly ones of Dallas' size--have such stations. If a good shot had EVER been taken, we'd know with more accuracy if it would work here.
I have a question. Is The Ticket rabidly popular because there isn't a good alternative for people who like raunchy humor and they're the best at it? In a lot of towns, that gets served by a Stern type--and I haven't heard anything here that serves this audience. Russ Martin ain't even close.
In other words--to your point--would the jugs and indie crowd be at the Ticket as heavily if there were a better alternative for them? Again, as usual, I don't have any idea. I'm just asking.
Define 'legitimate shot'. Because You've had ESPn, Fox Sports, 990 and others all take their shot, no?
LOL- so do you think all those stations said 'hey we don't want to be entertaining or engaging'. No, they tried, but they haven't succedeed. Perhaps no one can give it the WFAN shot, because recreating WFAN, much like recreating the ticket, it an impossibility.
(and my point about using Skip and coop is pointing out that they've done caller driven, sports intensive, and it didn't work..)
Google sports research. Ask around. You'll find out that there's huge interest in the Cowboys. Decent interest in Mavs and Rangers. Some interest in Stars and NASCAR, and little to NO interest in FC Dallas, minor league baseball, Desperados, golf, etc. SMU is lucky to get 10 thousand to a game. Why talk about something that only interests a small fraction of your audience?
And you missed my point. The problem isn't getting through the 'sports months', the problem is getting through the down times. Post superbowl to NBA and NHL playoffs. Post NBA/NHL playoffs until training camp, etc...
They coast more than a little bit. Like I said, do a little research- look at what happens to sports stations cume in the 'off' seasons...
I would define "legitimate shot" as hiring talent. Not warmed-over columnists and failed local people. Either successful out of market or in market talent. People with a proven track record or those who are up and comers. Secondly, it would require the proper promotion, support and sales staffing. Thirdly, it would require management with experience. Should also be prepared to "seed" the programs without knee-jerk reactions and replacement of shows every few months. Lastly, it should be totally local and live from 6a-6p.
I don't think those criteria have been met thus far. If I'm wrong show me where. ESPN is handcuffed by not-that-enticing syndication (made more so by Patrick's departure.) Fox Sports? To be honest, I'm not as familiar with that endeavor, but I think they also had syndication. 990 is a joke. FAR FAR from a legitimate shot on every level.
No, I don't think they said they don't want to be entertaining or engaging. I think they hired a bunch of carbon copy, blowhard, ineffectual windbags. Tired old re-hashers. Who was the big star any of them hired? Not necessarily a big name, but someone doing something different. Or interesting. Skip and Coop aren't exactly going to turn a lot of heads no matter where they're on the air. And I personally don't consider them very caller-driven in the WFAN mold.
I already know all those things. I just don't agree with your assertion that there has to be a big news cycle for a station to be interesting. It's like sports marketing. The #1 thing that affects attendance is WINNING on the field or court. The sports marketer had to get people to the game REGARDLESS of the winning record. I think the same holds true for a sports station. If you have interesting personalities, people will listen to them read the phone book. In other words, if you're depending on the news cycle to keep listeners, why have talent?
As for why do you do something that only interests a small fraction of your audience, you do it for two reasons. 1. To expose them to something new and educate them, or 2. to grow an audience.
I didn't miss your point. I just don't think it was a good one. You're telling me that from early February to May there's nothing to talk about in sports? I just don't buy that assertion, but even if I did, I fall back on what I just wrote. If you have entertaining personalities on the air, they can make the Dallas Cup interesting. Also, there are plenty of basketball issues in this time period. Mavs. We have the Stars. There are all sorts of controversies. Refs, scandals, you name it.
Are those months as interesting to the average fan as Cowboys season. Probably not. As interesting to the hard core sports fan? More likely so. This isn't going after The Ticket audience. To the contrary. It's first and foremost going after sports fan the ticket doesn't appeal to because of the non-sports content.
I don't know that we have the same definition for "coast." My point is that if the sports news isn't Uberscintillating, you're OK if you have entertaining personalities in place who engage listeners. The sports fan who doesn't want Soprano talk will more likely listen to sports of any kind if it's delivered up in an engaging manner. And I don't agree that the WFAN model is a one-off. Although the Ticket might be.
Little1,
By the way, I'm not trying to be contentious here, and am enjoying the exchange. Could I ask you something?
Who, in your opinion, outside the Ticket is the premier "raunch radio" or "guy talk" radio in town? And what do you think of the notion that the Ticket is the number one alternative for this audience--whereas in many large cities that might rest with a non-sports station?
By the way, I'm not trying to be contentious here, and am enjoying the exchange. Could I ask you something?
Who, in your opinion, outside the Ticket is the premier "raunch radio" or "guy talk" radio in town? And what do you think of the notion that the Ticket is the number one alternative for this audience--whereas in many large cities that might rest with a non-sports station?
1. I've made this challenge before. Name me 2 people that meet your definition of in market talent. Everybody and their brother has had their shot, and the vast majority of them have failed.
1a. And aren't you proposing a catch 22. You don't want a writer-turned talker, but you want someone with some sports credibility, sports knowledge, etc. In most cases, if you ask for the sports expert' you're going to get a writer-type.
2. And it's not that there's nothing to talk about, it's that there is nothing important to talk about. Let's say I'm a Mavs fan. I won't miss a game when it counts. But do I really care about catching every minute of every game in mid february? And tuning in teh next morning to see what the talk show guys have to say about it? No. In June, sure, I want to rehash what Shaq did, or how D-Wade never gets called for a foul- but am I going to get up in arms about that in January or February? Highly doubtful...
3- And it's actually back to 1. You say if you have engaging personalities, that will draw people in during off times, keep them around and engagd, etc. Name me a couple of people (preferrably alive (so Cosell is out) and willing to do local radio (so Costas, etc is out) that fit your bill. Because I can't argue your point. We'd all love to hear entertaining peeps on the air. I just don't know if we can find people that fit your mold.
1a. And aren't you proposing a catch 22. You don't want a writer-turned talker, but you want someone with some sports credibility, sports knowledge, etc. In most cases, if you ask for the sports expert' you're going to get a writer-type.
2. And it's not that there's nothing to talk about, it's that there is nothing important to talk about. Let's say I'm a Mavs fan. I won't miss a game when it counts. But do I really care about catching every minute of every game in mid february? And tuning in teh next morning to see what the talk show guys have to say about it? No. In June, sure, I want to rehash what Shaq did, or how D-Wade never gets called for a foul- but am I going to get up in arms about that in January or February? Highly doubtful...
3- And it's actually back to 1. You say if you have engaging personalities, that will draw people in during off times, keep them around and engagd, etc. Name me a couple of people (preferrably alive (so Cosell is out) and willing to do local radio (so Costas, etc is out) that fit your bill. Because I can't argue your point. We'd all love to hear entertaining peeps on the air. I just don't know if we can find people that fit your mold.
It would probably be any of the 105.3 shows, or Lex and Terry on the Edge. I don't think any other major show really qualifies as guy talk or raunch radio...GumpyJumptooth said:
But I'd take exception to your idea that they are the #1 alternative for that audience. Doing some counter-programming research a few years back, discovered that the Ticket shares more with the traditional talk stations and a couple of music stations much more than 105.3. IIRC, only like 10% of their audience flips between 1310 and 105.3.
I think we're agreeing here. I don't think there necessarily HAS been this type of talent in Dallas. I can think of only one currently on the air and that's Norm Hitzges. In Chicago, I'd call it Chet Coppack. I think the failure of the Dallas market is that the Dale Hansens of the world are annointed and they're just not that good at radio. Rhyner and the gang are simply GOOD AT RADIO. I'd listen to them talk about watching cars rust in Topeka.
I also think Bob Sturm could be that guy, but he's not on a station where he's required to.
I think this again points out the difference. I'm a big sports fan, so I love it when they talk about the game the next day. So I know the latest, most up to date, most inside info. So I hear every debate about every point. Also, there's the rest of the NBA to consider. And the rest of the NHL, etc. Hard core sports fans want that next-day take of the interesting radio guy. I might also point out that just because a station is sports-centric doesn't mean it has to be unimaginative or boring. I think that's a failure of the ESPN/990 efforts, too. Same ol', same ol' done poorly.
I don't know if we can find them, either. That's part of my quest for truth. I DO think, however, that out of market talent will come to Dallas if they're in a #20 or #30 market. Mark Boyle in Indy is very, very good. As was Mark Patrick. I'd have to research some of these guys, but it's kinda tough since we don't know what kind of dollars might be available, or what someone would want to come to Dallas.
I think The Sports Princess (Kate Delaney) is another name I'd add to Norm's. "Local" radio in one of the top five markets ain't super "local." (In other words, it's a good gig that could springboard someone to syndication, if that was their goal.) I also think a local Michael Irvin show would be going in the right direction. Good local tie, GREAT CONTROVERSIAL ENGAGING PERSONALITY, with experience and skins on the wall. I'd tune in to see what he'd say next.
Thanks for the stimulation.
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