Buffalo JP done at WECK?

[davideduardo]

That is correct. AM station. WECK is the top rated OLDIES AM in the entire U.S.

But most of its listening is to the FMs. So it is not the top rated "Oldies AM" because the station is on a bunch of translators on the FM band and that is where the bulk of listening occurs.

Average Quarter Hour share. Not bad for a 1KW station.

But most listeners are not using the AM station. They are using the even lower powered translators.

Also remembering that in the latest Nielsen book, WECK cume is only 10k away from WBEN 12+.

Cume is a useless figure for ad sales. Advertisers look at how many people hear each ad... and that is share/rating/AQH Persons. Not cume.

Our agency, which is in WNY works with WECK a lot. We know the owner very well. He is a very good guy, and cares about radio. His station is also a great value for our clients.

No doubt that it is. But when you buy WECK you are, mostly, paying for listening on the FM translators.

In purchasing Albany radio, the top stations have ratings no higher than a 4.9 share. Buffalo is a good radio market, and it is definitely behind the times.

Share is a percentage of those who are listening to radio. Rating is the percentage of all persons, listening or not.
There are always 100 shares. But the ratings in the PPM markets don't add up to over 6% of all people listening 6 AM to Midnight, Monday to Sunday.

In Miami, I am not sure they know radio, especially AM exists.

Most of the Miami AM listening is to Spanish language stations. The market is half-Hispanic and has the highest percentage nationally of Spanish dominant Hispanics.

 

[Radiowaves]

But most of its listening is to the FMs. So it is not the top rated "Oldies AM" because the station is on a bunch of translators on the FM band and that is where the bulk of listening occurs.

But most listeners are not using the AM station. They are using the even lower powered translators.

Cume is a useless figure for ad sales. Advertisers look at how many people hear each ad... and that is share/rating/AQH Persons. Not cume.

No doubt that it is. But when you buy WECK you are, mostly, paying for listening on the FM translators.

Share is a percentage of those who are listening to radio. Rating is the percentage of all persons, listening or not.
There are always 100 shares. But the ratings in the PPM markets don't add up to over 6% of all people listening 6 AM to Midnight, Monday to Sunday.


Most of the Miami AM listening is to Spanish language stations. The market is half-Hispanic and has the highest percentage nationally of Spanish dominant Hispanics.

Cume is a useless figure for ad buying, but not for ad selling. A client wants to know how many people listen.

Can you please show me data [facts] that most WECK listening is done on the FM? I am here to tell you that most WECK listening is done on the AM. Buffalo is an AM market. Just as WBEN and WGR listening is done on the AM.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Cume is a useless figure for ad buying, but not for ad selling. A client wants to know how many people listen.

Can you please show me data [facts] that most WECK listening is done on the FM? I am here to tell you that most WECK listening is done on the AM. Buffalo is an AM market. Just as WBEN and WGR listening is done on the AM.

What makes Buffalo so special to be an "AM market" when everywhere else in the country is completely the polar opposite?

How do you know the listneing is all done on the AM.. if youre going by the ratings i would think that the listing for WECK AM combines the AM signal and translator?

Plus, if its all AM for WECK.. whats the point of the translators then?

 

[davideduardo]

Cume is a useless figure for ad buying, but not for ad selling. A client wants to know how many people listen.

Cume is only used by direct sellers to small businesses. In the cases of both, they don't know what the data means and don't understand that it has nothing at all to do with how many people hear each ad.

I can't defend stupid sellers or ad buyers who don't understand the data. Cavet emptor reigns supreme in this case.

Can you please show me data [facts] that most WECK listening is done on the FM? I am here to tell you that most WECK listening is done on the AM. Buffalo is an AM market. Just as WBEN and WGR listening is done on the AM.

Over and over we have seen in cases where stations have released the confidential data on AM vs. FM translator listening that the translators account for the vast majority of all listening.

In this case, the AM has a small signal high on the dial. It can not be compared with the reasonably good signals of WGR and WBEN.

 

[Kelly A]

Over and over we have seen in cases where stations have released the confidential data on AM vs. FM translator listening that the translators account for the vast majority of all listening.

True. Since FM has vastly superior audio quality over AM, it's automatic the same music over the radio is being listened to via FM, not AM. Anymore, AM is there to keep the FM translator(s) on.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Mr. Piccillo early Tuesday morning posted a response on his Facebook page

 

[Radiowaves]

Mr. Piccillo early Tuesday morning posted a response on his Facebook page

Yes, the response is not correct. WECK had 28 negative comments in about 20 hours. Mr. Piccillo personal post did not have a 100 comments. maybe 10. He took down that post.

Owner of WECK never at anytime thought about pulling show or promos. He only pulled down the unapproved Facebook post

Owner only got involved in programming because he did not like the unfamiliar sound of the music and thought it was getting too progressive for the vision owner has of station and the older demo

 

[Mad Man With A Blue Box]

I don't post a lot on here, but do read quite often...and I'm shaking my head sadly, because I've seen/heard this type of stuff happen so many times, in so many markets, with so many different stations/owner combos/PD's etc.

I don't know who to believe, and frankly that doesn't matter...I would just hope for the best of success for everyone involved as they move forward in their lives and careers.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

Cume is a useless figure for ad buying, but not for ad selling. A client wants to know how many people listen.

Can you please show me data [facts] that most WECK listening is done on the FM? I am here to tell you that most WECK listening is done on the AM. Buffalo is an AM market. Just as WBEN and WGR listening is done on the AM.

You are comparing apples to oranges. WGR and WBEN are not available on FM, and more importantly, are spoken word formats, not music based. Spoken word, to the audience that listens to BEN or GR is acceptable quality on AM.

 

[exdjted]

Well, I guess my vacation's over, and damned if I thought it would be a post about WECK that would drag me back here.

Let's address JP's Facebook post. He wrote:

"When I found out the promo and social media mentions of the show were taken down, I sent the owner an email which probably has his eyes still burning. How could you do that? And not even tell me. I told him that’s it, you won’t hear from me again.. (meaning I’ll do my job, but we have no reason to talk)"

Uh, JP, as a former owner, that is a resignation letter. It's not Ostrander's job to infer context. "You won't hear from me again" should be, and was, met with "Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out". Good for Ostrander. His license, his money, his vision, his signature on your paycheck. End of story. This should have been on your final paycheck:



I love this little gem:

"First off, I’m not guessing, I know, we did a lot to change the culture there..for a while. I wish I had a buck for each time a now former colleague told me how much they loved the new fun environment we brought there."

Pat yourself on the back much? You need to see a doctor for the bruising. Seriously. A dollar for everyone who commented? What can you do with $18 in Buffalo? A couple of Big Macs and some fries? Ostrander was doing fine BEFORE you got there, and he'll do fine now. I don't care for his style, but I'll give him his due. WECK does well, he's happy with it, and that's the bottom line.

As far as AM versus FM listeners, NOBODY that has a choice is going to listen to AM if there is a corresponding FM signal. Ergo, most of WECK's listeners are probably from the FM translators. If Ostrander thought the AM was all he needed, he wouldn't waste the electricity on the FMs now, would he? Want to know what AM listeners look like?



Who cares if WECK is the 1st, 2nd or 53rd most listened to AM Oldies station? Outside of Buffalo, WECK is a roast beef sandwich. Come to think of it, inside Buffalo, WECK means a roast beef sandwich to most people.

 

[Radiowaves]

Well, I guess my vacation's over, and damned if I thought it would be a post about WECK that would drag me back here.

Let's address JP's Facebook post. He wrote:

"When I found out the promo and social media mentions of the show were taken down, I sent the owner an email which probably has his eyes still burning. How could you do that? And not even tell me. I told him that’s it, you won’t hear from me again.. (meaning I’ll do my job, but we have no reason to talk)"

Uh, JP, as a former owner, that is a resignation letter. It's not Ostrander's job to infer context. "You won't hear from me again" should be, and was, met with "Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out". Good for Ostrander. His license, his money, his vision, his signature on your paycheck. End of story. This should have been on your final paycheck:

View attachment 7324

I love this little gem:

"First off, I’m not guessing, I know, we did a lot to change the culture there..for a while. I wish I had a buck for each time a now former colleague told me how much they loved the new fun environment we brought there."

Pat yourself on the back much? You need to see a doctor for the bruising. Seriously. A dollar for everyone who commented? What can you do with $18 in Buffalo? A couple of Big Macs and some fries? Ostrander was doing fine BEFORE you got there, and he'll do fine now. I don't care for his style, but I'll give him his due. WECK does well, he's happy with it, and that's the bottom line.

As far as AM versus FM listeners, NOBODY that has a choice is going to listen to AM if there is a corresponding FM signal. Ergo, most of WECK's listeners are probably from the FM translators. If Ostrander thought the AM was all he needed, he wouldn't waste the electricity on the FMs now, would he? Want to know what AM listeners look like?

View attachment 7325

Who cares if WECK is the 1st, 2nd or 53rd most listened to AM Oldies station? Outside of Buffalo, WECK is a roast beef sandwich. Come to think of it, inside Buffalo, WECK means a roast beef sandwich to most people.

So are you saying that picture of skeletons represents AM listeners of WBEN and WGR as well, since they are AM? You are wrong in saying that WECK listenership is mostly on the FM. It is not. We have data from Nielsen that 70% listening is done on AM. The rest is FM since they have different coverage areas. The station also has a very good streaming numbers, locally. Mostly the voice activated devices.

Have you seen the national article less than a year ago that pointed out Buffalo is the most listened to AM market? These assumptions made that AM listeners are skeletons and very, very, old are just not true.

WECK, WBEN, WGR are all in the top 10 12 plus. They are in the top 7 35 plus.

Obviously in the case of WECK, the FM’s are a good paring to the AM. I bet if they were all offered to WBEN or WGR, they would not turn them down (well maybe now since they’re in bankruptcy court). WECK is an Uber metro signal on the AM. Its tower is on Genesee St in Buffalo, so none of the thousand watts are wasted serving Pike, NY. In the metro, the signal is as strong as WBEN or WGR. However, WECK has the added benefit of 3 FM’s. As an owner, if I had my choice to purchase stations for Buffalo metro coverage only, and the choice was to buy 1 5KW AM only, or 1 1KW AM, plus three metro FM translators, I would purchase WECK! In the metro, all these three AM stations sound the same, but WECK has the additional options of 3 great translators.

I respect your ownership position, but I also know some facts you don’t. Buffalo is the hottest AM market in the nation, and they are not all skeletons.

 

[Radiowaves]

You are comparing apples to oranges. WGR and WBEN are not available on FM, and more importantly, are spoken word formats, not music based. Spoken word, to the audience that listens to BEN or GR is acceptable quality on AM.

It’s acceptable to WECK listeners as well, because 70% of the audience listens on AM

 

[Radiowaves]

Yes, the response is not correct. WECK had 28 negative comments in about 20 hours. Mr. Piccillo personal post did not have a 100 comments. maybe 10. He took down that post.

Owner of WECK never at anytime thought about pulling show or promos. He only pulled down the unapproved Facebook post

Owner only got involved in programming because he did not like the unfamiliar sound of the music and thought it was getting too progressive for the vision owner has of station and the older demo

Need to edit my own post…sorry…28 negative comments in under 1 hour…not 20 hours

 

[exdjted]

I respect your ownership position, but I also know some facts you don’t. Buffalo is the hottest AM market in the nation, and they are not all skeletons.

The skeleton meme is aimed at AM overall, which is a dying medium. No question. Buffalo is an anomaly in that regard. Even Ostrander knows that AM has a finite lifespan. That's why he's streaming, utilizing FM translators, and will one day, no doubt, acquire a full-market FM signal, as he should. I never said he's not smart.

The stations you mentioned in Buffalo also are niche formats. Oldies is very specifically aimed at a certain age segment, as is News-Talk. Those listeners are older and grew up listening to AM, so they don't have to be enticed to the band. A lot of younger listeners never listened to AM, and fairly soon, we're going to encounter a generation that hasn't grown up listening to terrestrial Radio at all.

Enjoy AM while it's here, mourn it when it's gone, and then start worrying about how in the hell you're gonna keep them listening to FM next.

 

[Radiowaves]

The skeleton meme is aimed at AM overall, which is a dying medium. No question. Buffalo is an anomaly in that regard. Even Ostrander knows that AM has a finite lifespan. That's why he's streaming, utilizing FM translators, and will one day, no doubt, acquire a full-market FM signal, as he should. I never said he's not smart.

The stations you mentioned in Buffalo also are niche formats. Oldies is very specifically aimed at a certain age segment, as is News-Talk. Those listeners are older and grew up listening to AM, so they don't have to be enticed to the band. A lot of younger listeners never listened to AM, and fairly soon, we're going to encounter a generation that hasn't grown up listening to terrestrial Radio at all.

Enjoy AM while it's here, mourn it when it's gone, and then start worrying about how in the hell you're gonna keep them listening to FM next.

You said “here is what AM radio looks like” . You did not preface it with format.

AM does have a finite lifespan. So does life. What’s your point?

 

[tbolt909]

The JP incident sounds like a bad Soap Opera. Bottom line -- the guy who owns the station gets to run it his way. Whatever rings the cash register is all that matters to most. I've known independent owners who traded commercials for free food, carpeting, autos, hair salon service, etc... None of those transactions have anything to do with Programming, but are perks of ownership.

Some owners Micromanage everything and others delegate decision making. If JP thought he was the Program Director, he was mistaken. I recall a story from last year that said he had quit BEFORE he had started the job over some dispute with the owner. That should have been a red flag...

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

You said “here is what AM radio looks like” . You did not preface it with format.

AM does have a finite lifespan. So does life. What’s your point?

I see you didnt answer my questions, but you replied to everyone else.. im still interested in answers to my questions

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

The JP incident sounds like a bad Soap Opera. Bottom line -- the guy who owns the station gets to run it his way. Whatever rings the cash register is all that matters to most. I've known independent owners who traded commercials for free food, carpeting, autos, hair salon service, etc... None of those transactions have anything to do with Programming, but are perks of ownership.

Some owners Micromanage everything and others delegate decision making. If JP thought he was the Program Director, he was mistaken...

im lucky, at this point in my career, i wont work for someone who micromanages me.. they dont at KLMI, they dont at KSKO. i understand micromanaghing .. or something close to it, can be kinda sorta important in radio... were talking big markets... buffalo aint a big market

 

[exdjted]

AM does have a finite lifespan. So does life. What’s your point?

My point is exactly what I said. AM is dying. You're so Buffalo-centric that you won't look at outside markets. AM may last a bit longer in Buffalo and other markets, but it won't last. Neither will FM. As far as life? You're right. If I were to listen to what my doctor says, maybe 12 months or so. Oh well, Guess I'll never know if there's something buried on Oak Island.

What is it with people from Buffalo and Western New York who think the world ceases to exist outside of their geographic area? Good God. Take a trip somewhere. Even Ostrander goes to Florida. You might discover that what works in Buffalo won't work in Tallahassee or Wichita. Conversely, what works somewhere else doesn't fly in Buffalo.

My original point was that JP did himself in, and has nobody else to blame for being unemployed but himself. Good for Ostrander in calling his bluff.

 

[tbolt909]

I see you didnt answer my questions, but you replied to everyone else.. im still interested in answers to my questions

If most of the listening is still on the AM signal, then the FM translators may just be used during the sales process. You tell a client they'll get an AM/FM combo! I have no idea why anyone would be listening to music on an AM Radio in 2024. They might as well stream it, unless Buffalo really prefers rotary dial phones also...