Z
zumahans
Guest
Actually, I listen to KOLA frequently, it's your standard 400-600 playlist. Sounds local, though, not sat fed.
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K-Earth 101 Having Thousand-Song Weekend (With No Repeats!)
- Thread starter Joey1986
- Start date
I oughta know, Zuma, I do business with KOLA. Yep, every DJ and all programming is local. I'm not sure about overnights.
Z
zumahans
Guest
I'm in your camp, I was disagreeing with the guy who called it a joke based on one experience.
D
DougD
Guest
Look at their deceptive Web site.
http://www.kolafm.com/
The Beach Boys headline it.
Yet their playlist shows almost nothing from their era - 1963-1967.
KC & Sunshine Band or ABBA would be a more fitting headliner for such a station which has obviously vomited any trace of great oldies or 60s tunes.
http://www.kolafm.com/
The Beach Boys headline it.
Yet their playlist shows almost nothing from their era - 1963-1967.
KC & Sunshine Band or ABBA would be a more fitting headliner for such a station which has obviously vomited any trace of great oldies or 60s tunes.
X
XM RADIO
Guest
AZjoe, Wow you said it all!! KRTH will be the next station for CBS/ Infinity to Flip!! Its impossible for them to compete with XM and the Doggy Satelite! It takes more than a weekend to keep your audience, or whats left of it!! KRTH and KFRC probably have the same PD cause they play Identical songs in rotation! Thanks anyway! Commercial free radio for me, no stupid traffic reports or weather on XM!!They got me 4 accts, If LA looses KRTH to a Movin Format ,XM should gain many more listeners! Its funny how XM is taking listeners daily, and XM is Putting CBS"s $$$ in the XM bank acct. If Doggy and XM merge this would really show CBS whos got their act together!! like i say how many times can you play " Brown Eyed Girl"? Xm plays what listeners want!!Phlash Phelps has so many listeners hes gotta be #1 for oldies radio!! All you KRTH listeners prepare for the Demise of 101.1 Its Coming !!Loyalty @ CBS is in the Circular file!! Kenny in Concord!! For me the choice is Clear, Ill take XM!!
T
TheLaffer
Guest
mostb1 said:
Certain CBS Oldies stations are experimenting with less personality IE: Fewer phone calls on air, less gab, more liner card oriented deliveries. Less is more concept. No doubt another hair brained idea from a consultant or from the creative mind of Greg Strassell. A last ditch effort to cover his ass from the mistakes he has hired!
T
TheLaffer
Guest
zumahans said:
Another geniuse CONsultant at KOLA. Mark Elliot. :
XM RADIO said:
1. There is already a Movin' in LA.
2. KRTH is locally programmed by none lessthan Jhani Kaye, one of the best PDs in America. It is all live and local.
3. There are less than 500,000 satellite subscriptions in the LA area. KRTH cumes three times that number with one radio stations.
4. Most people in local markets want the traffic and local service elements.
5. KRTH is a top 10 biller in LA, although like all oldies stations, it is declining slowly.
6. Most people like to hear songs they like, not stiffs.
7. CBS dropped the Infinity name last year.
Z
zumahans
Guest
"KRTH cumes blah blah blah."
1) I listen to KRTH once in a while. Technically, I cume to KRTH. The second the stop set hits, I'm on XM.
2) I listen to Sat Radio much more, and like ALL sat radiopeople, I do not get measured accurately by the ratings industry.
3) Any company that is bought and paid for by the radio industry per se is not to be believed when it says it measures its competitor accurately.
4) Any corporate radio bigshot who tries to to me otherwise is a liar, and must think I am stupid.
For 70 years the NAB has told American what to listen to, and how to listen to it. Now they ask us to trust them that their ratings are accurate.
No way.
"Local service elements?" On KRTH? Bwah hah hah. Only a radio suit from the sixties can make that mistake.
This is a megalopolis with - what - 15 million people in it? Hearing "Joey from Fontana" make a request on KRTH is as local as the moon.
Something TV news people learned 50 years ago is that "local" equals "familiar". Local news does not mean news about the local area.
To Joe Blow, as a listener, Terry Motormouth Young is exactly as "local" as Shotgun Tom Kelly.
1) I listen to KRTH once in a while. Technically, I cume to KRTH. The second the stop set hits, I'm on XM.
2) I listen to Sat Radio much more, and like ALL sat radiopeople, I do not get measured accurately by the ratings industry.
3) Any company that is bought and paid for by the radio industry per se is not to be believed when it says it measures its competitor accurately.
4) Any corporate radio bigshot who tries to to me otherwise is a liar, and must think I am stupid.
For 70 years the NAB has told American what to listen to, and how to listen to it. Now they ask us to trust them that their ratings are accurate.
No way.
"Local service elements?" On KRTH? Bwah hah hah. Only a radio suit from the sixties can make that mistake.
This is a megalopolis with - what - 15 million people in it? Hearing "Joey from Fontana" make a request on KRTH is as local as the moon.
Something TV news people learned 50 years ago is that "local" equals "familiar". Local news does not mean news about the local area.
To Joe Blow, as a listener, Terry Motormouth Young is exactly as "local" as Shotgun Tom Kelly.
zumahans said:
A request is not a "service element." You may have been out of radio when the term came into use, about 20 or so years ago, to denote weather, traffic, news, sports, PSAs, etc... any information, supposedly of value, that is neither music nor commercials nor DJ chatter. In radio, "local" news is news about thelocal area... that is, the metro the station serves.
LA metro is 10.6 million for radio. That is the 12+ population.
Arbitron is paid for, mostly, by radio but audited and accepted by the ad industry. The MRC, which audits Arbitron and Nielsen, is made up of folks the ad industry appoints to monitor and accredit and audit ratings companies that want MRC approval. The MRC (formerly EMRC) came out of the hearings on the Hill in the 60's regarding media ratings and guarantees that advertisers will get data that comes from an approved and audited methodology.
There has been no dissatisfaction with the data by its end users, the advertisers... just a desire to move to electronic measurement in the future.
Arbitron measures satellite, also. But the math is simple: Most satellite installs are in car. In car is 30% of radio listening. That means that each subscriber counts for total listeners 0.3 at the most. So this is the equivalent of about 4 million "complete" listeners, or the cume of the two top NY radio stations. In any one market, the potential is less than a half a share of listening, across 300 channels.
Z
zumahans
Guest
---->A request is not a "service element." You may have been out of radio when the term came into use, about 20 or so years ago, to denote weather, traffic, news, sports, PSAs, etc... any information, supposedly of value, that is neither music nor commercials nor DJ chatter. In radio, "local" news is news about thelocal area... that is, the metro the station serves.
What a quaint, antiquated notion.
People don't give a crap about "local". People make fun of local.
It ignores the emergence of iPods, video games, computer servers, etc. None of your "local service element" there - it's actually listener-chosen music, hyperlocal.
--->LA metro is 10.6 million for radio. That is the 12+ population.
I don't give a crap about your industry's parsing or phrasing. The 5-county area is 15 million.
----->Arbitron is paid for, mostly, by radio but audited and accepted by the ad industry.
Oh, goody, it's not like the advertising industry doesn;t have its ass to cover. Gee, do you think the ad industry has any vested interest in keeping up the pretense that the mass advertising model is healthy and secure? GIGO.
----->The MRC, which audits Arbitron and Nielsen, is made up of folks the ad industry appoints to monitor and accredit and audit ratings companies that want MRC approval. The MRC (formerly EMRC) came out of the hearings on the Hill in the 60's regarding media ratings and guarantees that advertisers will get data that comes from an approved and audited methodology.
1960s industries, 1960s business models, and 1960 technologies. Wroekd great when there were three networks and you either drank Coke or Pepsi. Thank you for confirming my worst suspicions.
---->There has been no dissatisfaction with the data by its end users, the advertisers...
So what? That most certainly does not make the lies true.
---->Arbitron measures satellite, also.
No, it doesn't. And I can prove it: what does Arbitron say about the 70 million iPods out there? Or the however million X-Boxes? Those don't show up in the ratings, and the people conducting the ratings have no incentive to count them accurately.
------>But the math is simple: Most satellite installs are in car. In car is 30% of radio listening. That means that each subscriber counts for total listeners 0.3 at the most. So this is the equivalent of about 4 million "complete" listeners, or the cume of the two top NY radio stations. In any one market, the potential is less than a half a share of listening, across 300 channels.
What a pile of assumptions heaped upon ancient listening habits.
Most sat radios so far have been sold to early adopters. Those people are generally rabidly happy about their investment. Millions of home units and portable sat radios have been sold. Your 1980s-era technological model depends upon in-car units remaining in the car. Mine travels into the house every afternoon. So do millions of others.
Your "ratings" are wishful thinking multiplied by guesses and then multiplied again by wishful thinking.
Hooey. Your sales staff may have (diminishing) success with idiots who haven't read "How To Lie With Statistics". But don't expect me to swallow your fables.
What a quaint, antiquated notion.
People don't give a crap about "local". People make fun of local.
It ignores the emergence of iPods, video games, computer servers, etc. None of your "local service element" there - it's actually listener-chosen music, hyperlocal.
--->LA metro is 10.6 million for radio. That is the 12+ population.
I don't give a crap about your industry's parsing or phrasing. The 5-county area is 15 million.
----->Arbitron is paid for, mostly, by radio but audited and accepted by the ad industry.
Oh, goody, it's not like the advertising industry doesn;t have its ass to cover. Gee, do you think the ad industry has any vested interest in keeping up the pretense that the mass advertising model is healthy and secure? GIGO.
----->The MRC, which audits Arbitron and Nielsen, is made up of folks the ad industry appoints to monitor and accredit and audit ratings companies that want MRC approval. The MRC (formerly EMRC) came out of the hearings on the Hill in the 60's regarding media ratings and guarantees that advertisers will get data that comes from an approved and audited methodology.
1960s industries, 1960s business models, and 1960 technologies. Wroekd great when there were three networks and you either drank Coke or Pepsi. Thank you for confirming my worst suspicions.
---->There has been no dissatisfaction with the data by its end users, the advertisers...
So what? That most certainly does not make the lies true.
---->Arbitron measures satellite, also.
No, it doesn't. And I can prove it: what does Arbitron say about the 70 million iPods out there? Or the however million X-Boxes? Those don't show up in the ratings, and the people conducting the ratings have no incentive to count them accurately.
------>But the math is simple: Most satellite installs are in car. In car is 30% of radio listening. That means that each subscriber counts for total listeners 0.3 at the most. So this is the equivalent of about 4 million "complete" listeners, or the cume of the two top NY radio stations. In any one market, the potential is less than a half a share of listening, across 300 channels.
What a pile of assumptions heaped upon ancient listening habits.
Most sat radios so far have been sold to early adopters. Those people are generally rabidly happy about their investment. Millions of home units and portable sat radios have been sold. Your 1980s-era technological model depends upon in-car units remaining in the car. Mine travels into the house every afternoon. So do millions of others.
Your "ratings" are wishful thinking multiplied by guesses and then multiplied again by wishful thinking.
Hooey. Your sales staff may have (diminishing) success with idiots who haven't read "How To Lie With Statistics". But don't expect me to swallow your fables.
zumahans said:
That in itself is funny. When we talk to real listeners, they are interested in and want the local elements, the local talent and DJs and other stuff that is the glue that makes a radio station different from an iPod.
If a station plays the music listeners want, they use radio as much as ever, particularly if the station blend is better than an iPod on shuffle and it is entertaining beyond just a list of songs. An iPod is just a portable juke box... a way of listening "extra" to personal favorites.
Radio market areas are based on coverage of radio stations. The LA market, with LA stations, is LA and Orange Counties.
The ad industry is using, and has always used, all available media. The internet is moving in on newspapers much more than radio. Check car dealer ads and classified and real estate, the source of 60% or more of newspaper revenue.
The PPM, which measures all electroinc media, is today's model for ratings. It is already running. It even can do things like measure ad impact via capturing instore vs. stations listened to.
[/quote]
---->There has been no dissatisfaction with the data by its end users, the advertisers...
So what? That most certainly does not make the lies true. [/quote]
You have no proof other than your unsubstantiated opinion that the data is not true.
Arbitron measures all radio, icluding streaming and satellite. And it also shows listening levels, which, compared to 10 years ago, are surprisingly similar int he radio demos. There is less than 2% listener erosion since 1996.
Not really assumptions. Studies of satellite find (in addition to a 48% first year churn rate) that satellite listeners spend 25% of their radio time with satellite.
Then why are preinstalled car subscribers in nearly half the cases discontinuing subscriptions after the first year? XM and Sirius have downgraded subscriber projections twice this year, as value-seekers, the group that follows early adopters, are not rusing to subscribe. Most in car installs are not porable, and in most places reception outside the car is spotty. I bought a Panasonic Inno and cancelled after 1 month, since my normal walking and riding locations only got the signal part of the time.
Spoken like the judges at the Salem witch trials. Ratings are highly accurate for their intended purpose.
Our radio sales are up 6.5% this year. That is double the rate of inflation, and it is because we generate results, which is the ultimate rating.
Z
zumahans
Guest
---->When we talk to real listeners, they are interested in and want the local elements, the local talent and DJs and other stuff that is the glue that makes a radio station different from an iPod.
I learned in TV news that everybody always says they want local, local, local, and then doesn't care if the "local" content that they consume is from 10 miles or 3,000 miles distant.
Let's take El Cucuy. His show is every bit as "local" in LA as it is in any other market it airs. Reason? The listener defines local as "relating to me." Rush Limbaugh and Al Stewart are "local" to their fans.
----->If a station plays the music listeners want, they use radio as much as ever, particularly if the station blend is better than an iPod on shuffle and it is entertaining beyond just a list of songs.
But with formats splintering, that great big "if" is less and less likely.,
---->Radio market areas are based on coverage of radio stations.
Not talking about markets, we are talking about people. Too bad Mister Bigshot Radio Executive can never see this!
---->The internet is moving in on newspapers much more than radio.
Aha! So the internet is affecting radio. You have been denying that ad nauseum.
----->The PPM, which measures all electroinc media, is today's model for ratings. It is already running.
The whole industry is predicated on your blind faith in that technology, David, and I don't swallow it for one second.
-----.Arbitron measures all radio, icluding streaming and satellite.
Not accurately.
----->And it also shows listening levels, which, compared to 10 years ago, are surprisingly similar int he radio demos.
Not true. Just not true. Impartial media examinations show that radio TSL is dropping like lead shot.
---->Then why are preinstalled car subscribers in nearly half the cases discontinuing subscriptions after the first year?
Really? Prove it. Where did you get that data? Another "survey" by another "independent company" that makes its coin by selling "scientific data" to radio companies?
Your assumptions about in-car listening etc. are not backed up by any data whatsover, not even your suspect, fishy industry-paid numbers.
---->Our radio sales are up 6.5% this year. That is double the rate of inflation, and it is because we generate results, which is the ultimate rating.
Dead cats bounce.
I learned in TV news that everybody always says they want local, local, local, and then doesn't care if the "local" content that they consume is from 10 miles or 3,000 miles distant.
Let's take El Cucuy. His show is every bit as "local" in LA as it is in any other market it airs. Reason? The listener defines local as "relating to me." Rush Limbaugh and Al Stewart are "local" to their fans.
----->If a station plays the music listeners want, they use radio as much as ever, particularly if the station blend is better than an iPod on shuffle and it is entertaining beyond just a list of songs.
But with formats splintering, that great big "if" is less and less likely.,
---->Radio market areas are based on coverage of radio stations.
Not talking about markets, we are talking about people. Too bad Mister Bigshot Radio Executive can never see this!
---->The internet is moving in on newspapers much more than radio.
Aha! So the internet is affecting radio. You have been denying that ad nauseum.
----->The PPM, which measures all electroinc media, is today's model for ratings. It is already running.
The whole industry is predicated on your blind faith in that technology, David, and I don't swallow it for one second.
-----.Arbitron measures all radio, icluding streaming and satellite.
Not accurately.
----->And it also shows listening levels, which, compared to 10 years ago, are surprisingly similar int he radio demos.
Not true. Just not true. Impartial media examinations show that radio TSL is dropping like lead shot.
---->Then why are preinstalled car subscribers in nearly half the cases discontinuing subscriptions after the first year?
Really? Prove it. Where did you get that data? Another "survey" by another "independent company" that makes its coin by selling "scientific data" to radio companies?
Your assumptions about in-car listening etc. are not backed up by any data whatsover, not even your suspect, fishy industry-paid numbers.
---->Our radio sales are up 6.5% this year. That is double the rate of inflation, and it is because we generate results, which is the ultimate rating.
Dead cats bounce.
zumahans said:
Yeah, pleeeeease take El Cucuy. Nearly no one else does.
His show is on all of 4 radio stations, all in California, and it has huge local breaks in every hour where the local co-host does news, traffic, local angles on Cucuy's agenda, like voter registration, etc. It certainly can be said that he truly understands the need for local content by Hispanic listeners.
Formats are not splintering. Formats have not splintered since the 70's when FM became viable. Today, they just mutate as some die and others come on the scent.
Nonetheless, the LA radio market is not 15 million people.
It has hardly affected radio at all. Radio's share of ad budgets is at 8% for the first time since the mid-50's. Maybe it would have grown more without the web. Nobody can tell that... but it has not decreased. Newspapers, very definitely have.
There is no blind faith. The technology has been under development for 15 years, with real time testing for the last 4 years. It is live right now in Houston, and we even get weekly ratings. The technology is excellent, and it will continue to improve over time.
You have no proof. You should have been a politician.
Not true. The alarmist stuff you refer to is not focused on 18-54, where cume erosion is less than 2% in 10 years and TSL is only off slightly... In LA, for example, in 1998 the 18-54 TSL was 19 hours a week, and today it is 17 hours 45 minutes. One hour 15 minutes loss in total listening in a period of 9 years, where all kinds of technology has created immense numbers of entertainment options. That is only 6.6% in 9 years... less than 0.8% a year. Maybe in 10 more years we will be down to 16 hours... which is still a lot of time (10% of the total week) for a medium as old as radio.
When you prove that ratings are NOT accurate (something even a senate hearing could not do) then I will talk about the sources for the XM and Sirius data... but you can check the Q3 10Q filings when released.
T
TheLaffer
Guest
OldGringo said:
Jhani Kaye one of the best PD's in America??? How about one of the most overrated pd's in America. Sounds like Old Gringo campaigning for a gig :
TheLaffer said:Jhani Kaye one of the best PD's in America??? How about one of the most overrated pd's in America. Sounds like Old Gringo campaigning for a gig :
Anyone who could keep KOST at the top in a huge money demo for as many years as he did is obviously one of the bezt PDs in America.
I have a "gig" and certainly would not be asking Jhani for one in any case.
Z
zumahans
Guest
---->When you prove that ratings are NOT accurate (something even a senate hearing could not do) then I will talk about the sources for the XM and Sirius data... but you can check the Q3 10Q filings when released.
Here's your proof:
The ratings you keep quoting, ad nauseum, ad inifinitum, say that zero Americans listen to iPods, streaming audio, computer hard drives, or video game boxes.
Zero share, zero cume.
And here's where you lie outright:
From the XM third quarter 10Q filing:
XM also said its average "churn," or subscriber dropout rate, increased to 1.83 percent from 1.40 percent a year ago.
1.83 percent per month? Multiply by 12 and that's 22 percent per annum - and some of those people are dropping XM to pick up Sirius.
For any subscription-based service, that's an enviable figure. I bet DirecTV is similar. I know local cable here has a 30 percent churn.
I bet you added 22 percent from XM and a similar figure from Sirius to come up with your ludicrous fugure.
Another case of your erroneous assumptions transmogrifying in your blind faith into "real" statistics.
Here's your proof:
The ratings you keep quoting, ad nauseum, ad inifinitum, say that zero Americans listen to iPods, streaming audio, computer hard drives, or video game boxes.
Zero share, zero cume.
And here's where you lie outright:
From the XM third quarter 10Q filing:
XM also said its average "churn," or subscriber dropout rate, increased to 1.83 percent from 1.40 percent a year ago.
1.83 percent per month? Multiply by 12 and that's 22 percent per annum - and some of those people are dropping XM to pick up Sirius.
For any subscription-based service, that's an enviable figure. I bet DirecTV is similar. I know local cable here has a 30 percent churn.
I bet you added 22 percent from XM and a similar figure from Sirius to come up with your ludicrous fugure.
Another case of your erroneous assumptions transmogrifying in your blind faith into "real" statistics.
B
BACKnUSSR
Guest
First off, I agree with OldGringo ( I do??? yes...) Jhani Kaye is one of the most talented programmers in America,'
whether his magic works at KRTH we'll see.......
Scott Shannon created legend at Z-100 in NY, and then really didnt light up LA with Pirate.....so ya never know.....
In other news though............
Or at least the affiliates believe in it, if they use the breaks that way. Howard Stern (when he did terrestrial) was able to do a non-local thing that worked.....Limbaugh is a good example, so is Hannity or Delilah. I'm sure you'll agree that success has as much to do with appeal to local sensibilities than actual local information. Radio has changed a bit in that regard.
"Modern Rock" "Active Rock" "Hot AC" "Rhythmic CHR" "Hip Hop" "All Sports" all DID NOT EXIST as formats in 1980.
These all splintered off existing formats.
Okay....still missing the point it seems. What's the number if we estimate the "illegals" you argued are not included in the radio data??
So David, you are saying you believe fully in the accuracy of the current methodology?
Proving a negative. Proving something is NOT so. The oldest slight of hand trick there is.
whether his magic works at KRTH we'll see.......
Scott Shannon created legend at Z-100 in NY, and then really didnt light up LA with Pirate.....so ya never know.....
In other news though............
OldGringo said:
Or at least the affiliates believe in it, if they use the breaks that way. Howard Stern (when he did terrestrial) was able to do a non-local thing that worked.....Limbaugh is a good example, so is Hannity or Delilah. I'm sure you'll agree that success has as much to do with appeal to local sensibilities than actual local information. Radio has changed a bit in that regard.
They're not splintering???? Cmon.
"Modern Rock" "Active Rock" "Hot AC" "Rhythmic CHR" "Hip Hop" "All Sports" all DID NOT EXIST as formats in 1980.
These all splintered off existing formats.
Okay....still missing the point it seems. What's the number if we estimate the "illegals" you argued are not included in the radio data??
So David, you are saying you believe fully in the accuracy of the current methodology?
Proving a negative. Proving something is NOT so. The oldest slight of hand trick there is.
zumahans said:
That is ludicrous. Radio is not an iPod or some other music player. Radio ratings rate radio, meaning terrestrial, satellite and streaming. They don't rate music players any more than they rated the playing of 45's in the 50's and 60's.
You do not read very well. I said churn was at 48% for the installs in new cars after the first year.
And I would not believe the XM figures, as both have been caught counting unsold cars as subscribers and both have downgraded their subscriber estimates twice this year. The XM estimate was confirmed yesterday as being at the very low side of the advisory given just a few months ago, which was a downward revision.
And satellite is still about 0.5 percent of US radio listening.
They're not splintering???? Cmon.
"Modern Rock" "Active Rock" "Hot AC" "Rhythmic CHR" "Hip Hop" "All Sports" all DID NOT EXIST as formats in 1980.
These all splintered off existing formats.[/quote]
Where are beautiful music, chicken rock, progressive free form rock, standards, as formats. Some come and some go. We have seen all kinds of passing flavors, like Jammin' Oldies, too. We are seeing oldies dead in most markets, somooth jazz about to diasppear, AAA on the decline, and so on. I think the number of really separate formats is a funcition of number of staiton in a market, not the times.
Nobody knows, but probably a million more in LA.... if you go by percentages, LA has about one out of every 8 US Hispanics, so that math works.
I believe in the stated accuracy of a random probability sample, within the margin of error of a sample. Arbitron does a really good job, so I believe in the current product and in the PPM. They do a fine job. They are accurate enough for the purpose, given sample size vs. cost considerations.
"Modern Rock" "Active Rock" "Hot AC" "Rhythmic CHR" "Hip Hop" "All Sports" all DID NOT EXIST as formats in 1980.
These all splintered off existing formats.[/quote]
Where are beautiful music, chicken rock, progressive free form rock, standards, as formats. Some come and some go. We have seen all kinds of passing flavors, like Jammin' Oldies, too. We are seeing oldies dead in most markets, somooth jazz about to diasppear, AAA on the decline, and so on. I think the number of really separate formats is a funcition of number of staiton in a market, not the times.
Nobody knows, but probably a million more in LA.... if you go by percentages, LA has about one out of every 8 US Hispanics, so that math works.
I believe in the stated accuracy of a random probability sample, within the margin of error of a sample. Arbitron does a really good job, so I believe in the current product and in the PPM. They do a fine job. They are accurate enough for the purpose, given sample size vs. cost considerations.
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