K-Y-A call letters

[e-dawg]

What are the rules having a 3 call letters return? Can 1260 get back those three historical call letters K-Y-A?

 

[MikeAmatori]

I am not positive, but I think the 3 letter calls can be used/Go Back if they were the original ones on that frequency. 1260 KYA. ALSO if 93.3 ever wanted them back, the old KYA-FM and no one else was using them (Meeing the other frequency owned by another company) I think it would work for them too. But I seem to remember that it only applys to the original frequency(s) that were using them. BTW remember when 93.3FM was KOIT in the 60's and doing Rock?

 

[1069_KIFR]

Three letter radio was mentioned in another thred/subject. It was stated that only the original owners could get the letters back on the former frequency. So if the station is sold, the new cannot request the previous three letters.

But they could be known as KYA, for example. Simply get call letters with KYA_ or KKYA (if available) and simply advertise yourself as KYA. A station up in Chico does that. KFMF has been known as KFM since the early '80's.

 

[davideduardo]

I am not positive, but I think the 3 letter calls can be used/Go Back if they were the original ones on that frequency. 1260 KYA. ALSO if 93.3 ever wanted them back, the old KYA-FM and no one else was using them (Meeing the other frequency owned by another company) I think it would work for them too. But I seem to remember that it only applys to the original frequency(s) that were using them. BTW remember when 93.3FM was KOIT in the 60's and doing Rock?

If a station had 3 letter calls and changed them, only the owner when the change was made can get them back. If subsequently it has been sold, the calls are gone forever (with the exception of the Liberman scam in LA).

 

[Madmansam]

I am not positive, but I think the 3 letter calls can be used/Go Back if they were the original ones on that frequency. 1260 KYA. ALSO if 93.3 ever wanted them back, the old KYA-FM and no one else was using them (Meeing the other frequency owned by another company) I think it would work for them too. But I seem to remember that it only applys to

(with the exception of the Liberman scam in LA).

I am wondering how Liberman scammed the FCC? I know that he didn't want to use the calls at the time (KKHJ), because of the vulgar nature of the first 2 letters in Spanish. Couldn't the FCC told Liberman just to find another set of calletters that weren't vulgar?, it occurs to me that another hispanic company could purchase 1260, initially change the calls to KKYA, then later tell the FCC they are vulgar and petition them to grant KYA back? Of course, the easiest way is for Bonneville, to change the calls back to KYA before they sell it?

 

[1069_KIFR]

I guess that KKSF does not get many hispanic listeners?

 

[DrAkbar]

If a station had 3 letter calls and changed them, only the owner when the change was made can get them back. If subsequently it has been sold, the calls are gone forever (with the exception of the Liberman scam in LA).

So the question is: did TMISU get KYA's calls when they purchased the 12~sixty facility from KING Broadcasting in '83, or did the calls immediately change to KOIT-AM at closing? In addition to the KOIT calls on 12~sixty, the Nurse and I recall the short lived news/info/music format known as KXLR. Meanwhile we're anxiously awaiting the sales price for this legendary frequency.

 

[newsperson]

Everyone seems to be quoting rules for 3-letters call signs. The present rules are that 3-letter call signs are prohibited.

In order to obtain a 3-letter call sign today, it requires a waiver of the rules. Therefore the ownership has nothing whatsoever to do with the ability to obtain a waiver.

To obtain a waiver you apply for it with a well-prepared legal document citing the reasons for it and how it will be in the public interest.

KOH, AM 630 was started in Reno back in 1922. It continued until 1993 and it now no longer exists. In 1993 KROW AM 780, Reno applied for the call letters KKOH and received them. In a private business arrangement not filed with the FCC, the owners of KROW paid the owners of KOH for the rights to their network programing and a non-compete agreement for the news-talk format. They did not want to buy the staion because of the huge difference in power with 630 Khz. at 5,000 watts and 780 Khz. at 50,000 watts.

In this case whoever buys KOIT-AM 1260 from Bonneville is free to apply for whatever call letters they desire. Any station is free to apply for a waiver of any rule with the Commission. A 3-letter waiver request for KYA on 1260 Khz. has a good chance of being approved since that has a long history on 1260 Khz. It has nothing to do with who owned it when.

However if somone had KYA on 1260 khz. and wanted to purchase 860 Khz and move the call letters to 860 Khz. that would be a problem. The reason as cited above is that there is not a history of the 3-letter call sign on 860 khz.

If anyone has any questions remember that this is prohibited by the rules and can only be approved by a customized waiver of those rules.

Newsperson

 

[davideduardo]

Everyone seems to be quoting rules for 3-letters call signs. The present rules are that 3-letter call signs are prohibited.

In order to obtain a 3-letter call sign today, it requires a waiver of the rules. Therefore the ownership has nothing whatsoever to do with the ability to obtain a waiver.

If anyone has any questions remember that this is prohibited by the rules and can only be approved by a customized waiver of those rules.

Actually there is an exception based on administrative procedure. An owner who gives up a set of 3-letter calls can recover them if there is no change in ownership of the licencee. A new owner can not recover them.

There is one exception, made for KKHJ in LA. Beasly gave up the calls, and then sold to Liberman (for KRTH). Liberman got KKHJ assigned, and used them for about 6 or 7 years, and then did the "it sounds like "Ka Ka" in Spanish scam, and the FCC gave them back KHJ. This is the only exception made. There are numerous same-owner reversions on the record, though.

 

[newsperson]

There is one exception, made for KKHJ in LA. Beasly gave up the calls, and then sold to Liberman (for KRTH). Liberman got KKHJ assigned, and used them for about 6 or 7 years, and then did the "it sounds like "Ka Ka" in Spanish scam, and the FCC gave them back KHJ. This is the only exception made. There are numerous same-owner reversions on the record, though.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

David,

What you said above is just my point. Any licensee can ask for a waiver of the rules and it could be granted. In the case you cited above, this was granted by a waiver request.

A Washington law firm justifies its role by knowing how to ask for waivers and getting them granted.

In my legal opinion there is nothing that prevents any future owner of KOIT-AM 1260 from obtaining the call letters KYA as long as their counsel cites the proper cases and justifies the waiver.

Even if your same owner legal argument carries weight, a buyer for KOIT-AM could simply have Bonneville submit the call-letter waiver request prior to the transfer.

So who is this mystery buyer anyway? Would they even want those call signs?

How about some responses with speculation on who the buyer could be?

Another poster mentioned the Oakland A's, couuld it be them? Or would they argue over the price too much?
We know they have a great new AM and FM affiliation with KYCY and KIFR so they are not in a crying need for a station.

Is is a religous buyer?

How about a foreign language buyer?

Let the speculation begin!

newsperson

 

[davideduardo]

What you said above is just my point. Any licensee can ask for a waiver of the rules and it could be granted. In the case you cited above, this was granted by a waiver request.

Actually, no waiver is needed to restore calls the same licensee had used previously. There are the rules (which only say that new calls must have 4 letters), and then there is administrative procedure. Administrative procedure is the kind of thing that establishes how to start HD broadcasting, which is not in the rules. Same goes for call reversion for 3-letter ones. There is, as far as I can find, no rule about 3 letter calls in part 73 except that new ones will not be assigned unless to owners of a station with those calls in a different service. There is a set of procedures, though, that the FCC employs uniformly (see below).

The KKHJ case required a waiver of administrative procedure as well as 73.3550 of the rules by the Broadcast Bureau. I believe that, since then, they realized they had been "taken for a ride" and I doubt that a request based on "we want them back" would ever progress.

From the FCC:

The Commission's policies and regulations governing the reservation and authority actions of radio and television broadcast station call signs are set forth in detail in the Report and Order in MM Docket No. 98-98, 14 FCC Rcd 1235 (1998); and 47 C.F.R. Sections 73.3550 and 74.783(e). Any questions concerning the policies and regulations, or requests for waiver thereof, should be directed to the Call Sign Desk at telephone number (202)418-1600.

Note that part 73 is only a portion of the procedures relating to calls.

 

[Tom_KYA1260]

Can you tell I want those call letters back?

 

[VerneWhiteLLC]

I met with Bonneville board trying to buy the AM or LMA it with a buyout about 7 months ago. Everything at the time was looked into and yes you could change the call letter back according to my engineer as long as it was the same freq/ city etc. I had a great reception with them and they were not looking to do anything at that time. I did know there was a major deal in the works as they wanted out of SF market.
I agree with newsperson TOO MUCH $$$$$ for anyone to make money. Now I am going after the new owners to let our Corp LMA or make an agreement to put the original KYA back. We have copywrited KYARadio and hve used it on the internet very successfully and we are operating 3 FMs using the Jingles which I own and the KYA format. we will keep trying to get KYA back it could be a huge winner for the bay!!!!
If anyone has any interest in investing in the 1260 SF please email me [email protected]

 

[BossRadioDJ]

I met with Bonneville board trying to buy the AM or LMA it with a buyout about 7 months ago.

Gee, Verne ... according to the key people at Bonneville, they didn't meet with you:

San Francisco Chronicle (August 27, 2006): "White said he was working with partners to get control of KOIT's 1260 AM signal and restore KYA. KOIT's general manager, Chuck Tweedle, and program director, Bill Conway, are unaware of any such proposal, according to Conway."

Perhaps it was your "cousin," or your mysterious attorney "Sal," that met with them. Which board members were actually at the meeting? Did you tell them you were THE Chris Edwards?

From Ben Fong-Torres:

Right away, we have a problem. The real Chris Edwards was at KYA when this one (Verne White) claimed to be, and the Edwards I've known for years says, "I was the only Chris Edwards there."

And what about KFRC? "I don't think so," says John Catchings, who was news director there. Catchings and about 1,000 other former employees are listed in a program produced for KFRC's 25th anniversary reunion in 1991. There is no mention of Chris Edwards or Chris Edwards White.

Go back to Clovis, Verne.

 

[DrAkbar]

we will keep trying to get KYA back it could be a huge winner for the bay!!!!

Just like Firebaugh, huh? Let's see...is that market #3,548 or #8,453?

[glow=red,2,300] KYA 12~Sixty The Boss of Firebaugh!

 

[davideduardo]

I met with Bonneville board trying to buy the AM or LMA it with a buyout about 7 months ago. Everything at the time was looked into and yes you could change the call letter back according to my engineer as long as it was the same freq/ city etc.

Your "engineer" needs to read FCC administrative law and see a case history of the call reversions granted to date: every one but one was to the licnesee who dropped the calls, and if there was any change in ownership, it was not possible.

I had a great reception with them and they were not looking to do anything at that time. I did know there was a major deal in the works as they wanted out of SF market.

I am sure they would not have told you, in any case, unless you showed up with an irrevocable letter of credit for the purchase price... if KFRC (now KEAR) went for $35 million, probably $15 to $20 million might have gotten Bonneville's attention for a rather dreadful signal.

If anyone has any interest in investing in the 1260 SF please email me [email protected]

The check is NOT in the mail.

 

[DrAkbar]

if KFRC (now KEAR) went for $35 million, probably $15 to $20 million might have gotten Bonneville's attention for a rather dreadful signal.

Anything north of $10m TMISU should seriously consider...provided that hillside art deco xmttr building is included. Gotta love puttin' an AM stick on the side of the hill when everywhere you look is flat land surrounded by water!

 

[BossRadioDJ]

we will keep trying to get KYA back it could be a huge winner for the bay!!!!

Just like Firebaugh, huh? Let's see...is that market #3,548 or #8,453?

[glow=red,2,300] KYA 12~Sixty The Boss of Firebaugh!

Verne recently emailed me that he had an offer worth millions of dollars to sell the imitation Internet KYA, which he says "averages 23,000 listeners an hour."

Of course, his server stats are easily accessible and show he can only have 25 listeners at a time. Maybe the 23 people that were listening to him once each had 999 friends in the room at the same time.

Verne's "KYA" server stats: http://kyaradio1.primcast.com:7860/

DJ

 

[davideduardo]

Verne recently emailed me that he had an offer worth millions of dollars to sell the imitation Internet KYA, which he says "averages 23,000 listeners an hour."

Of course, his server stats are easily accessible and show he can only have 25 listeners at a time. Maybe the 23 people that were listening to him once each had 999 friends in the room at the same time.

Verne's "KYA" server stats: http://kyaradio1.primcast.com:7860/

DJ

I also notice that the average listen time is 62 seconds. Great TSL.

 

[XM RADIO]

Verne, give me a break, If you had a honest bone in your body you would surrender your stream to the "Real Chris Edwards" and butt out on all bay Area transactions!! Just what we need the "Immitation " with any further involement in this "Complicated Bay Area Radio Market" I gotta wonder how the "Real 1260 am Avco Employed Chris Edwards feels knowing your on the loose? The Real Chris Edwards comes to KYA in March 1968, With Tall Tom Campbell, and "Bill Holley, these guys send the ratings soaring, in the late 60s and Verne is here 39 years later taking credit, and portraying to be someone you will never be! I hope Bonneville never sells to you!! Big Daddy Tom Donahue would roll over in his grave knowing you "Verne" were up to!! Wow Im glad I was right here in Concord in 1962 ,tuned into KYA 1260, and you were 200 miles away in that jerkwater town of Firebaugh!! Whats next? Verne get on Interstate 5 southbound and go home!! Kenny in Concord