KBIG-MY/fm Cited by the FCC

[calguy]

Saw this today in Don Barrett's page. Yes, he still does a smaller version of LARP. I've re-written it so we don't get in trouble, but he got it from All Access. MY/fm was cited by the FCC for an improper on-air legal ID. Apparently they failed to provide the requisite call letters and city of license on January 23.

Could this be the result of a PD who comes from New Zealand and doesn't know the rules?

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Saw this today in Don Barrett's page. Yes, he still does a smaller version of LARP. I've re-written it so we don't get in trouble, but he got it from All Access. MY/fm was cited by the FCC for an improper on-air legal ID. Apparently they failed to provide the requisite call letters and city of license on January 23.

Could this be the result of a PD who comes from New Zealand and doesn't know the rules?

It's also because the FCC doesn't strictly enforce the rules. They should. Most stations here in LA do a good job, but I have heard very poor ones over the years in my travels about the country.

I've never understood what is so difficult about announcing your station's call letters and COL at the top of the hour. Stations should be proud to announce this information, but many stations act like it is some big secret that is too sensitive to be shared with the public.

 

[Thomps2525]

What are the rules regarding legal IDs in other countries? In the early 1980s XETRA-690, broadcasting from Rosarita Beach in Baja California, had a top-40 format and the ID would usually air anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes before the top of the hour.

 

[davideduardo]

What are the rules regarding legal IDs in other countries? In the early 1980s XETRA-690, broadcasting from Rosarita Beach in Baja California, had a top-40 format and the ID would usually air anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes before the top of the hour.

Most countries of the world do not require call letter use on the air, and many do not have rigid ID requirements, feeling that stations will use their station name often for purely commercial reasons.

I've worked at stations where nobody on the staff knew the call letters!

Mexico copied the archaic US ID rules and made them worse. They require two IDs an hour, including the name of the owner as well as station name, calls and location.

Some countries that do require IDs do not require them at a specific place in the hour.

 

[davideduardo]

It's also because the FCC doesn't strictly enforce the rules. They should.

Why should they? Call letters are relatively useless today, where most stations identify by means of a name, so the calls are superfluous.

In fact, if an ID is needed for reasons of identifying interference, etc., the Arbitron PPM system of embedding a data burst in the station audio as often as 12 times a minute is really superior and does not waste time.

 

[ercjncpr]

It's also because the FCC doesn't strictly enforce the rules. They should.

Why should they? Call letters are relatively useless today, where most stations identify by means of a name, so the calls are superfluous.

In fact, if an ID is needed for reasons of identifying interference, etc., the Arbitron PPM system of embedding a data burst in the station audio as often as 12 times a minute is really superior and does not waste time.

I think that the US is one of the very few countries that ID with call letters because of a government rule

 

[Neel]

In regards to call letters in Mexico, when I used to listen to Z90 from Tijuana in the 90s, they never announced their call letters but instead just said "zeta noventa, Baja California, Mexico" at the hour. It wasn't until years later that I found out their calls were XHTZ or is it XHITZ?

 

[nmoore6676]

Saw this today in Don Barrett's page. Yes, he still does a smaller version of LARP. I've re-written it so we don't get in trouble, but he got it from All Access. MY/fm was cited by the FCC for an improper on-air legal ID. Apparently they failed to provide the requisite call letters and city of license on January 23.

Could this be the result of a PD who comes from New Zealand and doesn't know the rules?

BIG YAWN, as in who cares? A local station here in Iowa doing a local talk show often misses the TOH-ID when the discussion gets hot. They are 250 watts on AM so nobody really ever knows. Other stations bury the legal ID in a barrage of promotions and their station's imaging identification.

As David Eduardo points out on here elsewhere they so pump up their commercial branding that there is no question as to who they are. Perhaps the ID requirement is an archaic holdover from a time when there were few stations on the air and no FM or TV so their signals could at opportune times be heard for many miles, even worldwide. Even then the ID was most useful to DXers wanting to know who and from where what they were hearing came from. It isn't likely that a pirate operator was ever going to give such information so as to have the officials know here he was.

So do IDs really serve any official purpose?

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I think the IDs were always indended to identify a particular transmitting station, not necessarily an ownership chain or franchised format. In order to be able to identify the point of origination on the frequency you're listening to. For any number of reasons. And with so many simulcasts and translator networks now, it seems even more useful to know what you're actually listening to.

The ID rules also help to reinforce the "obsessive compulsive" nature of a lot of radio folks.

I once worked at a station back in the days of LPs, where I played an orchestral/choral version of Handel's Hallelujah Chorus to finish out the hour I was hosting, to end at midnight, before the overnight guy took over playing the music. But the backtiming was off by a few seconds. The overnight announcer still felt he had to do a fast fade just as "Messiah" was finishing on its glorious high note, in order to start the recorded 20-second legal ID cart right at Midnight on the dot. Assuming the clocks were all that accurate, anyway. (The station had no live network programming.) It was a real lesson for a young broadcaster in how easy and eager stupid people can ruin a beautiful moment for listeners.

 

[nmoore6676]

I think the IDs were always indended to identify a particular transmitting station, not necessarily an ownership chain or franchised format. In order to be able to identify the point of origination on the frequency you're listening to. For any number of reasons. And with so many simulcasts and translator networks now, it seems even more useful to know what you're actually listening to.

The ID rules also help to reinforce the "obsessive compulsive" nature of a lot of radio folks.

I once worked at a station back in the days of LPs, where I played an orchestral/choral version of Handel's Hallelujah Chorus to finish out the hour I was hosting, to end at midnight, before the overnight guy took over playing the music. But the backtiming was off by a few seconds. The overnight announcer still felt he had to do a fast fade just as "Messiah" was finishing on its glorious high note, in order to start the recorded 20-second legal ID cart right at Midnight on the dot. Assuming the clocks were all that accurate, anyway. (The station had no live network programming.) It was a real lesson for a young broadcaster in how easy and eager stupid people can ruin a beautiful moment for listeners.

I worked at and programmed the music on a classical outlet and I believe there was an exception made for long classical pieces. Usually we played it safe but some works just wouldn't fit so the ID was late. We would have been given a lecture if we had ever potted down out of the middle of a segment to do the ID.

 

[stewie]

It's also because the FCC doesn't strictly enforce the rules. They should.

Why should they? Call letters are relatively useless today, where most stations identify by means of a name, so the calls are superfluous.

In fact, if an ID is needed for reasons of identifying interference, etc., the Arbitron PPM system of embedding a data burst in the station audio as often as 12 times a minute is really superior and does not waste time.

Excellent point but does EVERY station in EVERY market embed PPM bursts at this point?

As much as I've ranted and raved about how "cool" I thought it was back in the day when stations used call letters as part of "the brand", I realize those days are long gone. Being a long time amateur radio operator, I guess I'm just a creature of habit when it comes to using a radio frequency.

 

[MarioMania]

How does the FCC know of a station isn't doing on ID TOH most of the time?

There's alot of stations

 

[jonbruce]

From what I read about this on Tom Taylor's newsletter the FCC was responding to a complaint. Of course they could sit and listen randomly to stations but I doubt they have the time or the staff to do that. I recall one entire weekend in 1966 on 1500 KBLA Burbank for a speciality wknd. the top of the hour ID had no COL on it. Never heard they got cited. A couple of LA stations thru the years, KACE 103.9 Inglewood and KEZY Anahiem "muted" the actual COL with a lower volume. But I see no reason why KBIG with an actual L.A. COL would want to hid that fact.

 

[MarioMania]

How can someone complain about a ID at the TOH for?

 

[oldtimeradio]

There are exceptions to IDs at the top of the hour for classical pieces or a program that is in progress and cannot be interrupted. For example, a speech. Sports broadcasts can ID at a natural break in action.

However, an automated station back in Indianapolis, and then other stations using thjis type of automation equipment, ID'd exactly on the hour and half-hour. The song was simply potted down by the automation system, the ID played, and then the same song was potted up to finish out.

I guess some engineer took the FCC regs to an extreme and did the IDs exactly on time. ;-)

 

[davideduardo]

Excellent point but does EVERY station in EVERY market embed PPM bursts at this point?

No, they don't. But my point is that there is much better technology... the PPM code, RDS, etc., for IDing a station.

We are much more than half a century past the time when much of listening was done to out of town or distant stations. And past the time when interference due to faulty gear was a bigger issue.

And for anyone who thinks IDs are helpful, I challenge them to understand the HD subchannel IDs. Simply confusing.

Among the things that make radio "old fashioned" to newer consumers is stuff like IDs. Does Pandora have IDs? Nope...

The consumer has no need for call-letter IDs. And the FCC et. al. can identify a station much faster via coding than waiting for an hourly ID.

 

[Thomps2525]

Remember the 1978-82 tv series WKRP in Cincinnati? n the mid-1980s there was an oldies station at 1550 in Salt Lake City. The call letters were KRPN. They gave their legal ID as "W...KRPN, Salt Lake City." Apparently ithe ID was legal, albeit deceptive. It was enunciated in such a way as to make listeners hear "WKRP in Salt Lake City." Didn't they wonder why they never heard Venus Flytrap of Dr. Johnny Fever on the station?

 

[davideduardo]

Remember the 1978-82 tv series WKRP in Cincinnati? n the mid-1980s there was an oldies station at 1550 in Salt Lake City. The call letters were KRPN. They gave their legal ID as "W...KRPN, Salt Lake City." Apparently ithe ID was legal, albeit deceptive. It was enunciated in such a way as to make listeners hear "WKRP in Salt Lake City." Didn't they wonder why they never heard Venus Flytrap of Dr. Johnny Fever on the station?

That's like the much-commented ID of WGTZ, Eaton, OH many years back...

... to seem more like a Dayton station, this rimshot FM IDed as "WGTZ, eatin' Dayton alive"

It is a legal ID, and pretty amusing still, years later.

 

[Thomps2525]

I guess we can be glad that there are no radio stations in Intercourse, Pennsylvania. Someone might have come up with an ID that would have embarrassed all of us.

 

[radiohistory]

From the 1934 creation of the FCc and for many years after, stations had to give legal IDs every 30 minutes, twice an hour! I don't know when that rule changed to once an hour. Also, in the heyday of DXing, in the 1920s to early-1930s, the radio hobbysists always complained about stations that did not give the call letters more often and about announcers who did not enunciate the call letters.

Jim Hilliker
Monterey