KBRT to leave Catalina Island

[david]

I believe KBRT is allowed 113w at night but at the moment choose not to use it as the wattage cannot make it across the channel.

If this is true, and KBRT chooses to remain on air at night with that power, this may cause serious trouble with the ability to pick up KCBS in inland Orange County and the adjacent areas of Riverside County (Corona, Riverside, Chino Hills). I for one would be sorry to see that happen as KCBS provides a better public service.

And, no one needs to begin preaching on this thread that SoCal is way out of KCBS' designated area, and how SoCal has no monetization value to the station. The issue here is programming content, and KCBS is the superior product. Nuff said.

 

[MR5229]

I believe KBRT is allowed 113w at night but at the moment choose not to use it as the wattage cannot make it across the channel.

Back in 2001 when I was visiting Southern California, I remember KCBS 740 fighting it out with KBRT at night. In Redondo Beach and Irvine, two places where I stayed KCBS 740 would mix with KBRT, with KCBS winning the fight over KBRT signal-wise. I guess that's a good reason why they don't stay on at night.

 

[davideduardo]

If this is true, and KBRT chooses to remain on air at night with that power, this may cause serious trouble with the ability to pick up KCBS in inland Orange County and the adjacent areas of Riverside County (Corona, Riverside, Chino Hills). I for one would be sorry to see that happen as KCBS provides a better public service.

And, no one needs to begin preaching on this thread that SoCal is way out of KCBS' designated area, and how SoCal has no monetization value to the station. The issue here is programming content, and KCBS is the superior product. Nuff said.

But with about 75% of the news content and almost all the commercials of interest only in the Bay Area, why would anyone in the OC have even the most remote interest in that content? Besides, it's only listenable some nights, and we know what the all-news format listenership is (actually, "is not" would be better) at night.

 

[radio1015a]

I believe KBRT is allowed 113w at night but at the moment choose not to use it as the wattage cannot make it across the channel.

I stand corrected - should have double checked the FCC database first. Always thought they were a daytimer - and hope they stay that way. Those of us like David at USC enjoy hearing how a well-run, true all-news station sounds and the fact that their primary service area is the Bay Area is irrelevant. Good radio is good radio and the premise that news radio listening is less at night doesn't negate that. From my experience, KCBS is listenable most nights here as is KGO, a great example of a major market talk station that outshines anything we have here. Nothing KBRT could offer would replace the potential loss of listening to KCBS.

 

[radiocph]

In fact, KBRT should synchronize their carrier with KCBS after dark, and carry their programming....

 

[ercjncpr]

just curious as to whether the city of license will still be Avalon? (not that it really matters, I suppose and yes, I know the rules about col)

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Did we ever answer the question whether or not KBRT actually
stays on at night? It is definitely authorized:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?stat...&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9

SoCal locals, please advise!

And here's the "for entertainment purposes only" night coverage map
with the infamous red inner "circle":

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KBRT&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

If KBRT does not use its night authorization, then my next question
has to be--is the tower site in a lumberyard? ;D

 

[radio1015a]

just curious as to whether the city of license will still be Avalon? (not that it really matters, I suppose and yes, I know the rules about col)

Without a studio or transmitter presence on Catalina, I can't see how it wouldn't change.

Did we ever answer the question whether or not KBRT actually stays on at night? It is definitely authorized:

If KBRT does not use its night authorization, then my next question has to be--is the tower site in a lumberyard? ;D

Every night at sunset, they run the standard "we're outta here for the day" announcement followed by the interference free sound of KCBS. As they encounter a fair amount of background KCBS before they disappear, it will be interesting to see if how that changes, if at all. Hopefully they continue to throw the switch. As for the tower site, I believe it's planned near a rather large lumberyard called the Cleveland National Forest.

 

[radio1015a]

.

 

[w9wi]

just curious as to whether the city of license will still be Avalon? (not that it really matters, I suppose and yes, I know the rules about col)

Without a studio or transmitter presence on Catalina, I can't see how it wouldn't change.

If it continues to provide enough signal (5mV/m) across Avalon from the new site, it can continue to be licensed to Avalon.

 

[Carmine5]

just curious as to whether the city of license will still be Avalon? (not that it really matters, I suppose and yes, I know the rules about col)

Without a studio or transmitter presence on Catalina, I can't see how it wouldn't change.

If it continues to provide enough signal (5mV/m) across Avalon from the new site, it can continue to be licensed to Avalon.

This raises a couple of questions: in the FCC's eyes, if a station's nighttime signal no longer covers its COL does that mean the station must change its COL? I'm thinking that it will mean a change unless the Commission grants a waiver. Also with KBRT's new antenna array and accompanied change in pattern will KBRT be able to broadcast with more power, day or night?

Then we have Crawford's fanatic support for AM HD, how will this change in location affect adjacent stations? We know they have experimented with the asymmetrical sideband technique for AM and found that it works so maybe they will use it full time as a way of reducing interference.

c5

 

[oldiesfan6479]

This raises a couple of questions: in the FCC's eyes, if a station's nighttime signal
no longer covers its COL does that mean the station must change its COL?

KBRT is a class D station. In class Ds, night authorization (with usually
minimal power) was a later afterthought for former daytimers, and the
nighttime signal does not have to cover the COL.

Perhaps the Old Gringo or Professor Fybush can explain the above better.

Case in point: KFNN 1510 Mesa (Phoenix market). Formerly 10 kw-D with
a single stick in Mesa, now 22 kw-D, 100 w-N, DA-2 with multiple sticks
(diplexed with KKNT 960 Phoenix) at a site in far north Phoenix:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KFNN&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

The night pattern doesn't get anywhere near Mesa (well, except when they
don't power down at the specified monthly time ;D).

 

[LA_Guy]

KBRT will find another community to be licensed to on the mainland. The 100 watt 88.7 noncom at Avalon will remain as a full time local service. I wouldn't be surprised if Amaturo and/or Crawford donated big bucks so this station could go on-as they both have or will have increased the values of their stations considerably because of it.
The FCC deregulated city of license moves for AMs a few years ago. As long as SOME radio station remains licensed to the city of license, you can change yours as a minor change now.

 

[K6JHU]

Amaturo left Catalina for the drier confines of Fountain Valley years ago.

 

[w9wi]

KBRT will find another community to be licensed to on the mainland. The 100 watt 88.7 noncom at Avalon will remain as a full time local service. I wouldn't be surprised if Amaturo and/or Crawford donated big bucks so this station could go on-as they both have or will have increased the values of their stations considerably because of it.
The FCC deregulated city of license moves for AMs a few years ago. As long as SOME radio station remains licensed to the city of license, you can change yours as a minor change now.

Not sure whether that will be necessary or not.

To remain licensed to Avalon they must put 5mV/m across Avalon **during the day**. As "oldiesfan6479" says, KBRT is a Class D station, so it doesn't matter whether they have any nighttime signal across Avalon.

Looking at the existing 2.5mV contour on radio-locator.com, they wouldn't make 5mV across Avalon by simply moving the existing array onshore. But I'd be pretty sure that's not what they're going to do. There aren't any stations in that null -- looks to me as if that null is there simply to avoid wasting power across the open Pacific. I would imagine they may have to protect KCBS, but that isn't much impediment to getting a good signal over Catalina from an Anaheim site.

Since they haven't filed anything yet, no way of knowing what pattern they actually plan.

 

[goriajk]

In fact, KBRT should synchronize their carrier with KCBS after dark, and carry their programming....

I like that...Top of the hour id "KCBS-AM & HD, KFRC-FM & HD1 San Francisco - KBRT-AM & HD Costa Mesa"

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Hey Joe, a belated Happy Birthday to you!!!!!!!!!!

Re. the "drier confines of Fountain Valley", can anyone tell me why JILL-FM picked the COL to be Fountain Valley?? Their OC tower is not there, their main office is in Thousand Oaks and their sub-office is in Lake Forest. What the heck do they have in FV??

[oh and BTW what "valley" is Fountain Valley in anyway? ;D ]

 

[davideduardo]

Hey Joe, a belated Happy Birthday to you!!!!!!!!!!

Re. the "drier confines of Fountain Valley", can anyone tell me why JILL-FM picked the COL to be Fountain Valley?? Their OC tower is not there, their main office is in Thousand Oaks and their sub-office is in Lake Forest. What the heck do they have in FV??

[oh and BTW what "valley" is Fountain Valley in anyway? ;D ]

It was probably all FCC-slash-legal. To leave Avalon, they would have to make the signal fit existing protections on the mainland, and they would have had to pick a city of license (actually, the FCC calls it "community" of license) that was without radio service and which was inside the defined city grade contour of the newly moved transmitter. That meant, of course, looking at a map of what the new signal covered based on available transmitter sites, and picking one.

 

[ercjncpr]

Found this today in The Daily Mirror (The LA Times online history blog)--this was from January 1960:

Disc jockey Bob Gage of KBIG, Catalina, received a fan letter stating, "You're good enough to be promoted to Hollywood. And the walk would do you good."

 

[amisdead]

So what cities, probably in Orange County, don't have primary aural service?

Population is important, but I would guess they would choose a city that is small in terms of land area so as not to be too confined if they want to make any signal adjustments later. And, since LA is the primary market, nothing too far south...

- Costa Mesa
- Fullerton
- Huntington Beach (KOCE-TV, can't remember if FCC factors in licensed TV stations)
- Westminster

Any more guesses?