KCDX Approved for Better Signal

[davideduardo]

A successful advertising strategy would be to use "national advertisers" as the new KCDX coverage is split between the "exburbs" (extreme suburbs) of metro Phoenix and Tucson.

But there are no agency buys like that. They buy Phoenix a lot, much less for Tucson as it is not even a top 50 market, and then there is little else national placed in the whole state.

A station with nearly no listeners in two markets does not get any more buys from agencies as one with no listening in a single market.

The Flag/Preskit market was dropped by Nielsen as the stations did not get enough agency business to warrant the expense.

 

[Kelly A]

Besides the relocation of the transmitter, much of the improvement may be due to the approved effective radiated power upgrade of the signal from 2.7 kW to 42 kW.

As I stated in my OP, as a fan of the station, I fear that this upgrade, once implemented, will measurably increase the valuation of the signal, possibly making it more attractive for the owner to sell, which would be a loss for the listeners, as this station's current format is unique on the American radio landscape.

This a one of those Kabuki Theater applications. Probably intended to attract a buyer who doesn't know better.

He's losing 318m in HAAT, 568m in AMSL, and going from 36m antenna height to 21m AGL. And those coverage maps are wrong, because not only is he losing a bunch of height, the new antenna is directional to the North to protect 162/163 degrees. The maps you posted aren't taking into consideration the new highly directional pattern. Sure, he picks up a city grade into Florence, but nothing changes toward Phoenix and Tucson. The rattlesnakes with radios will get have a much higher field strength in the valley.

 

[RF101]

Agreement here on the maps - they don't incorporate the pattern influence. Try FCCdata.org which uses maps generated from the FCC Contour API with the antenna pattern being one of the key options.

Directional Antennae: For US stations providing protection to other US stations the general rule is no more than a 2 dB drop for a 10 degree horoizlntal angle change and no more than a 15db maximum drop overall. There are slight differences to pattern rules when protecting Mexican and Canadian stations depending on which binational agreement is applied. For example, the US-to-Canada rule is a 20dB max drop.

Unlike the Canada-US accord , the US-Mexico one is much more protective of the Mexican signal spillover on to US territory. You can more easily shortspace a station near the Canadian border than near the Mexican one, hence the serious dropoff of the proposed KCDX patterns towards Cananea... down to near 1.8kw ERP versus the 42kw ERP max.

 

[RF101]

Very related to the KCDX "nulling" pattern towards Cananea is another example of Tucker's Tucson move-in strategy. In January 2020 the FCC approved the re-location/upgrade of KKYX Sierra Vista to Catalina Foothills. This takes the 101.7 Class A signal (3kw) and shifts it to 101.1 Class C3 (24kw) at a Tucson suburban location. (Tucker subsequently will backfill the 101.7 allotment in Sierra Vista with his Huachuca CIty KXKR (6kw) ).

A prime example of the US-Mexico accord can be seen in Tucker's new antenna pattern at Catalina Foothills. The pattern drops an incredible 23.5dB over 20 degrees, decreasing the 24kw ERP all the way down to 108 watts ERP. The massive drop protects a station in Sasebe, Mexico. Tucker sought an exception to the FCC's 15dB max drop rule imposed for domestic stations as this bigger decline met the context of the US-Mexico accord provisions.

Has anyone down there noted KKYX's 101.1 signal in metro Tucson yet or the KXKR backfill?

(Okay, I could have posted this under "Arizona" or "Tucson" categories but this related to the KCDX pattern strategy)

 

[Sammi Brie]

Very related to the KCDX "nulling" pattern towards Cananea is another example of Tucker's Tucson move-in strategy. In January 2020 the FCC approved the re-location/upgrade of KKYX Sierra Vista to Catalina Foothills. This takes the 101.7 Class A signal (3kw) and shifts it to 101.1 Class C3 (24kw) at a Tucson suburban location. (Tucker subsequently will backfill the 101.7 allotment in Sierra Vista with his Huachuca CIty KXKR (6kw) ).

A prime example of the US-Mexico accord can be seen in Tucker's new antenna pattern at Catalina Foothills. The pattern drops an incredible 23.5dB over 20 degrees, decreasing the 24kw ERP all the way down to 108 watts ERP. The massive drop protects a station in Sasebe, Mexico. Tucker sought an exception to the FCC's 15dB max drop rule imposed for domestic stations as this bigger decline met the context of the US-Mexico accord provisions.

Has anyone down there noted KKYX's 101.1 signal in metro Tucson yet or the KXKR backfill?

(Okay, I could have posted this under "Arizona" or "Tucson" categories but this related to the KCDX pattern strategy)

An allotment that I doubt will ever be built with anything. The only broadcast station there is one of the Telemax TV facilities where there's a satellite receiver, transmitter and antenna at the municipal government building or other state government facility. (A bunch of Radio Sonora sites are like this but Telemax has twice the number of total transmitters.) I found this pic from 2017 of the one in the small town of Nácori Grande, which is built into a school.

 

[Kelly A]

An allotment that I doubt will ever be built with anything. The only broadcast station there is one of the Telemax TV facilities where there's a satellite receiver, transmitter and antenna at the municipal government building or other state government facility. (A bunch of Radio Sonora sites are like this but Telemax has twice the number of total transmitters.) I found this pic from 2017 of the one in the small town of Nácori Grande, which is built into a school.

Now that the requirement for local studios has been eliminated, all you really need is a transmission facility. If your programming arrives via satellite, you'll need an antenna for that too. Spending money on things that aren't required, is not indicative of a successful operation or not.

 

[RF101]

A note about a directional antenna arragement near Nogales for a former Tucker outlet.

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/jjs-gives-an-arizona-%E2%80%98amor%E2%80%99-to-a-new-owner.728237/#post-6363673

 

[Kelly A]

He sounds like another one of these classic shoehorn station flippers of old. There was someone similar who did this with "50kW" AM applications. They give some consulting engineer business in bulk, to look for places to shoehorn in CP's that had to be at least 50KW. Never mind that constructing the station would mean several towers and a pattern where most of the listeners would have to be out to sea, literally. Potential buyers would just see 50,000 watts.

Those days are ending. Radio just isn't the investment it used to be. Messing with directional patterns and reducing HAAT to jack up the ERP so it looks good to a potential buyer, doesn't mean the station is going to perform any better or be any more valuable to the marketplace.

 

[kwthom]

He sounds like another one of these classic shoehorn station flippers of old. There was someone similar who did this with "50kW" AM applications. They give some consulting engineer business in bulk, to look for places to shoehorn in CP's that had to be at least 50KW.

If you look at the 60dBu contour, there was a bit of genius that derived that pattern of KCKO, referenced by @RF101, it sure looks like it was deigned to cover all of the Nogales metro area with signal. Even with the terrain limitations of the lower Santa Cruz valley.

Loading Map...

.widthCenter { width:1222px; position:absolute; left:50%; margin-left: -611px; } var theLocation = window.location.hash; // where 'hash' is # theLocation = theLocation.replace(/#/,"https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/contour

www.fcc.gov

On both sides of the fence.

Not that this has anything to do directly with the KCDX situation at this time...it's a construction permit.

 

[Kelly A]

Not sure what genius you're talking about. Most of the field of that station is over jackrabbits. The tiny back lobe is the only signal over the city of license.

 

[kwthom]

Again, this is about KCKO, not KCDX

Not sure what genius you're talking about. Most of the field of that station is over jackrabbits. The tiny back lobe is the only signal over the city of license.

...and also, right where most of the population of Santa Cruz county lives.

Did the same engineering firm come up with some wiz-bang scheme for KCDX? I guess we find out once the CP is really in progress.

 

[TowersRus]

This CP will never be built. Tucker has had this same CP renewed about 3 times now for 3 years each time and never been built. It is an obvious app to protect (pig) spectrum. It proposes a full class C from his current C1. It covers up potential open spectrum in the Tucson area, which Tucker protects by many various means since he apparently is consumed with the Tucson market. He rarely builds out CP's, and has lost a good many stations in recent years for lack of building them out. He is really good at creating and protecting spectrum. Will give him credit for that. But everyone here is wasting their time wondering what the signal will be like from this new CP. Almost physically impossible to get built, let along what it would cost to build it. Trust me, this is only a place card holder as it has been for 10+ years.

 

[Kelly A]

Rim shots into the Phoenix market are not only nothing new, but have always WAY under performed the expectations from a revenue standpoint. This guy is a classic-wants to swing his proposed larger wattage number around, whether he's shopping the station, or looking for potential investors.

 

[davideduardo]

A successful advertising strategy would be to use "national advertisers" as the new KCDX coverage is split between the "exburbs" (extreme suburbs) of metro Phoenix and Tucson.

There is no ad market for overlapping stations that cover pieces of two nearby markets. While there might be some car dealers and the like that can attract a fringe area buyer based on lower prices, there is not much else. This is basically a Casa Grande station.

David vs. Goliath (the other "David") works in the Bible. It does not have a parallel with radio signals.

 

[CAVEMANager]

In response to RF101 on Jan 6: As of Monday afternoon I can say with certainty that KKYZ was transmitting from Sierra Vista on 101.7 and also on a translator on 99.1 in Sierra Vista. Tucker has had permission to move KKYZ to various suburbs of Tucson for many years but has dragged his feet in making the move. I think he is trying to find a way to both keep KKYZ in Sierra Vista and also move it to the Tucson area. It's the old have your cake and eat it too. Sierra Vista and Tucson are far enough apart.
Also for years, Tucker has had the right to move the city of license for his Douglas station to Tombstone and transmit with 100KW from a communications site between Benson and Willcox. The land is owned by the State of Arizona and I doubt that he'd be permitted by the Land Department to transmit with 100 KW as it would cause havoc to two way radio stations already there. Yet another proposal that never gets implemented.

 

[kwthom]

Not every swing of the bat is a hit. Strike(outs) do happen.

 

[Peglomaniac]

Hi everyone ... does anyone know what changed at KCDX about a month ago? I can no longer get it ... My desktop computers give the message "an error occurred while loading this video" and my phones say "unsupported media type".

Is it just me (I'm all Apple), or did something change a few weeks ago. I know Flash is being phased out - would that have anything to do with it?

Appreciate any insight, up here in Canada, it's a lonely ol world now without KCDX. 🥺

 

[Peglomaniac]

Anyone who thinks that KCDX is just a labor of love knows nothing about Tucker's mode of operation which is to eventually move stations into the big city and sell them at huge capital gains. There is no better example than 95.1 which is licensed to Sun City West. It began in Winslow. After it moved it got sold for over $18 million. Nearly all the Tucker stations are commercial free until they get sold. One of the few exceptions is KKYZ in Sierra Vista which does sell advertising.

Hello, what is the duration Mr Tucker has generally owned stations until he sells for a profit, such as mentioned above. Losing KCDX would be a sad day indeed.

 

[kwthom]

KCDX?

Twenty years and counting, by my estimate.

I'm thinking this one might just be his 'flagship' station, and he may never dispose of it.

Yet, never say never.

The web page hasn't been updating the 'what's playing' part in months. Only IT needed to keep it running seems to be the scope at this time.

 

[EDwalker]

Good News - I have not seen discussed that KCDX's filing for a modification to its transmitter location and signal strength was approved 6/18/2020. According to FCCData.org (FCCdata.org - powered by REC) the rimshot will be improved over both Phoenix metro and especially in Tuscon with an ERP increase from 2.7KW to 42KW and a transmitter location further south and slightly west - new location is directly just a bit north of Oro Valley.

Just a FWIW, this is KCDX's second construction permit for 42kw. It was first granted in 2014. Expired in 2017. Applied for and granted again shortly thereafter. Expired in 2020. Applied for again and granted again. We'll see what happens in 2023.