KDBN

[TheRover]

It's surprising it has taken some classic rock stations this long to try to move a little forward and introduce more "modern classics". In reality, in 2008, playing mid-90s to late-90s rock isn't any different than what the format started out as. Nor would be playing a few songs that are a few years old... I'm guessing the demos are finally forcing the issue. The guy who was 20 in 1973 is now outside 25-54 and thus ready to be shunned by advertisers.

Gee.... I thinks I saw a lot of 50ish folks at the Zeppelin concert back in December....not to mention the Eagles shows.... and Roger Waters also.

"Our" Demo will never go away folks....

That's out @#$%ing Legacy ! !

HA HA HA HA HA ! ! ! ! ! !

 

[txchipk]

It's surprising it has taken some classic rock stations this long to try to move a little forward and introduce more "modern classics". In reality, in 2008, playing mid-90s to late-90s rock isn't any different than what the format started out as. Nor would be playing a few songs that are a few years old... I'm guessing the demos are finally forcing the issue. The guy who was 20 in 1973 is now outside 25-54 and thus ready to be shunned by advertisers.

Gee.... I thinks I saw a lot of 50ish folks at the Zeppelin concert back in December....not to mention the Eagles shows.... and Roger Waters also.

"Our" Demo will never go away folks....

That's out @#$%ing Legacy ! !

HA HA HA HA HA ! ! ! ! ! !

But, on the ad-supported radio, the number of stations airing those songs will decline over time. In another 15 years, they will have gone the way of 50s music being heard on the radio today...on a minority of oldies-type stations or the likes of stations like KAAM targeting folks in their 60s+.

As been explained numerous times, the issue with age is that advertisers tend to value older audiences less for the reason that folks in their 50s+ generally tend to be brand-loyal, skepitcal of advertising, etc. Despite the fact they may have more income than some 20-something, to convince the typical person in their mid-50s to switch brands, try something new, etc. takes many more ad impressions (i.e. far less cost-effective if you have only so much money to spend on advertising). So, advertisers value younger audiences...(1) they tend to still be willing to try new products, are more easily tempted to shift brands, etc.; (2) if you can build their brand loyalty over time, you likely will keep them since people tend to stick with what they know as they get older. The last point is validated on this board almost daily...a whole bunch of middle-aged folks posting here who have no interests in trying to other forms of music except the music they grew up with or are comfortable with. This is where satellite radio has an advantage...since they get subscriber fees, they don't have to worry about having formats targeting people old enough for AARP memberships.

I doubt this is going to change unless radio comes up with a different model to generate revenue. KZPS tried something different and got some resistance from advertisers who wanted to use the traditional commercial spot. If anything, you see companies trying to target even younger crowds to build brand awareness and loyalty. Radio Disney is nothing but Disney brand-building for the under-10 crowd. When I left the hockey rink today, a group of 4 and 5 year olds was starting to assemble to get ready for another round of 30 minute "Kids First" free hockey classes put on by the Stars. Those Dallas Stars StarCenters exist primarily for the purpose of being future "fan generators"...starting with programs for very young kids.

 

[Andyf101]

Adverts really oughta rethink that older demo / brand loyalty thing. Heck, I was already brand loyal to products in my late 20's. I am somewhere in the 35 - 54 demo, and I'm still brand loyal to some products. Why do they (the advertisers) think people like me are more easily willing to change brands, and still believe the 55+ crowd isn't?

I also would note that my retired parents, bought a Toyota Hybrid several months ago. Prior to that purchase, they'd never owned a Toyota. They had been loyal to Ford and Chevrolet prior.

Andy

 

[jeffdfw]

Also, the 35+ demo has the cash to get XM or Sirius - forget FM. Let the kiddos have it. FM is the new AM. Unfortunately, HD Radio will go the way of AM Stereo or the Laser Disc Movie Player. ;D

 

[Andyf101]

Also, the 35+ demo has the cash to get XM or Sirius - forget FM. Let the kiddos have it. FM is the new AM. Unfortunately, HD Radio will go the way of AM Stereo or the Laser Disc Movie Player. ;D

HEY! No fair bashing laser discs!!!!! I still have some! And a working laser disc player too! It's fun to watch how fast them things spin!!!! ;D

Andy

 

[TheRover]

Also, the 35+ demo has the cash to get XM or Sirius - forget FM. Let the kiddos have it. FM is the new AM. Unfortunately, HD Radio will go the way of AM Stereo or the Laser Disc Movie Player. ;D

HEY! No fair bashing laser discs!!!!! I still have some! And a working laser disc player too! It's fun to watch how fast them things spin!!!! ;D

Andy

Right !

I someday hope to go back to LP's... Just for the "fun" of it ! ! ;D

 

[Andyf101]

LP's? Nahhh, forget those! Ultra thick n heavy 78 RPM's are more fun ;D

Andy

 

[Gabba Gabba Hey!]

Also, the 35+ demo has the cash to get XM or Sirius - forget FM. Let the kiddos have it. FM is the new AM. Unfortunately, HD Radio will go the way of AM Stereo or the Laser Disc Movie Player. ;D

Only thing about that is.... a report recently came out that said more people are opting out on keep up with their XM/SIRIUS accounts. They will get the freebie or reduced option when they purchase their new rides, however, when it comes time to re-up... they are passing on it. These people had the attitude of why pay for something that they can get for free.

I am just telling you what I recently read. I have tried looking for the article link. If I find it I will posted it here.

 

[MikeShannon914]

Attrition has always been a problem with satellite radio, but I'm sure it's even more prevalent with the economy sucking and everyone having to make cutbacks somewhere. Also, I'd bet that lots of folks that are parting with their oversized gas guzzlers and downgrading to subcompacts are getting into models that don't even have satellite capability built in...meaning having to buy a standalone satellite unit, get it installed, set up a new account, pay a $15 account fee, etc. (I know, but most folks can't handle installing their own.)

I know my XM unit tends to gather dust, and I could sure use the $14.02 (tax included) each month for other things! But I keep paying it anyway.

 

[johnqdoe]

Attrition has always been a problem with satellite radio, but I'm sure it's even more prevalent with the economy sucking and everyone having to make cutbacks somewhere. Also, I'd bet that lots of folks that are parting with their oversized gas guzzlers and downgrading to subcompacts are getting into models that don't even have satellite capability built in...meaning having to buy a standalone satellite unit, get it installed, set up a new account, pay a $15 account fee, etc. (I know, but most folks can't handle installing their own.)

I know my XM unit tends to gather dust, and I could sure use the $14.02 (tax included) each month for other things! But I keep paying it anyway.

I have a really good friend that I play cards with once a week or so. It's a nice little gathering at his place. We always kinda chuckle because he makes SUCH a big deal out of getting the XM receiver out of the car, plugging it into the jambox, then propping it JUUUUUST right against the window so it will get a signal....then....VIOLA!!!!! His favorites are the EXACT same stuff that's on the Edge. His wife's favs...are the EXACT same tunes on Mix. These folks swear by XM, "could never go back, don't see how you can stand FM...blah blah"...then listen to the exact same music that's avail for free.

 

[jeffdfw]

But you don't have to set through ten minutes of spots for twenty minutes of music.

 

[jerrymac]

This station HAS to go away soon - it's simple logistics unless a company like that just doesn't care. According to friends within Cumulus, its the latter. I hear the engineering department inside the station won't even set the studio up so the morning show can have a delay system. They have to record everything they do and THEN air it. What size market is DALLAS? (Rhetorical question!)

Radio stinks.

 

[MikeShannon914]

It's the Susquehanna Disease. We talked about this MANY times on here in years past...anytime corporate came a-callin' and wanted to know about how the local cluster was performing, local management started saying, LOOK AT HOW GREAT THE WOLF AND THE TICKET ARE DOING!!! and it seemed to de-emphasize how badly KDBN and KLIF were doing. Therefore, guys like Strong and Kovarsky were left in their positions LONG after their time was up, and the Bone--without any fight--became Jeff's personal jukebox (and personal folly, right down to pre-approving every single jock's music choices AND choice of liner cards to read for each shift.)

Most folks have said that the first two months of KDBN's existence were the best...and I have to agree. They simply 'let it all hang out.' A fresh format with lots of strong, solid rock...THEN the meddling began. It was never the same thereafter.

What you STILL have now is a station that COULD be something, given the Cowboys' simulcasts in stereo, and that it's an FM with a respectable signal (nice how some will give them a 'pass' over a 'bad' signal, when the reality is that the format is midguided and the imaging SUCKS!) Blow up the station...new calls, new imaging, everything. Put a PD in who wants the station to succeed. Program modern classic rock to appeal to that sell-able 25-39 male group who DOES tune in for the Cowboys games.

Disagree on this personal assessment if you want...but go back and look at the books and trends that had/have this station tanking in the sub-1.0 range (including many embarrassments at the 0.4 level.) Anyone else (save for The Twister) would have blown up this station LONG ago over those numbers. Now if they're just wanting a nice tax writeoff, that could explain LOTS of things.

 

[TheRover]

They call it "Safe" Corporate Radio.

I look for the redeeming musical value of Dallas Rock radio.....

And I don't find it on --any-- corporate radio stations.

Just all Big Business....

The Buying and Selling of Commercials.

My, how we've come a long long way......

And I don't even have esoteric tastes!!!

Just something other than commercial pop.

But that commerical pop --- is all that Dallas is selling...

You can sense the lack of musical integrity....

It screams louder than words can ever do.

The decline of the Western World.....

We're hearing it, every day on corporate radio.

"I'm So Happy" . . .

 

[ySP]

Disagree on this personal assessment if you want...but go back and look at the books and trends that had/have this station tanking in the sub-1.0 range (including many embarrassments at the 0.4 level.) Anyone else (save for The Twister) would have blown up this station LONG ago over those numbers. Now if they're just wanting a nice tax writeoff, that could explain LOTS of things.

Dear Mr. Shannon,

While I whole-heartedly agree with the overall assessment of KDBN in this thread, and believe it is far under-performing beyond what can be blamed simply on its signal, I must also point out that what you past as factual information is nowhere near factual. As you suggested, I have gone back and looked at all the books and trends... just where has KDBN ever shown up with a 0.4?

In the 25 books since "The Bone" was launched, it has only once scored under a 1 share (0.9 - Winter 2004) among Persons 12+. Among Persons 25-54, its lowest showing has been a 1.1 in the same survey. And even in a demo that's not primary for KDBN, like Persons 18-34, there have only been 3 sub-1.0 share finishes, the lowest being again in the Winter 2004 (0.7). Nowhere do I see any of those "many" embarassing 0.4 shares you mention. Not a one.

Stellar ratings? Nowhere close.
Time to dump the Bone? Probably, but that ultimately depends on a myriad of factors beyond just basic ratings.
Embarssing ratings? Yep.
"Many embarassments at the 0.4 level"? None.

While you prefaced your statement as a personal assessment, you make a point based upon ratings information as if it was factual - and it clearly is not. It's really not that difficult to double-check the facts before making such a claim. And I'm sure any number of us who actually have access to demographic information would be glad to help clear such matters up for you in the future.

 

[jeffdfw]

Not to split hairs here but they did finish with a 0.9 in the past phase 2 trend. ;D

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,96738.0.html

 

[Chuck]

<snip>
The last point is validated on this board almost daily...a whole bunch of middle-aged folks posting here who have no interests in trying to other forms of music except the music they grew up with or are comfortable with. This is where satellite radio has an advantage...since they get subscriber fees, they don't have to worry about having formats targeting people old enough for AARP memberships.
<snip>

Although I don't disagree with the other points in this post, I think it is fair to point out that many of the folks "who have no interest in other forms of music" actually do have wide musical tastes. The problem is they simply don't care for a lot of today's popular music. They’ve listened to it and they just don’t like it.

Perhaps they aren’t supposed to. If there was a Rap or Hip-Hop song that really appealed to middle age, balding white guys, then it would probably be the worst Rap or Hip-Hop song ever. Think about it.

Just like our parents were alienated by The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc, now it's our turn to be alienated by today’s artists.

Still I firmly believe that advertisers are doing themselves a disservice by ignoring the over 50 crowd. There is a very large group of people driving around in those quarter of a million dollar plus RVs that are towing a Harley or Cadillac Escalade behind it. Somebody is leaving money on the table.

 

[MikeShannon914]

While I whole-heartedly agree with the overall assessment of KDBN in this thread, and believe it is far under-performing beyond what can be blamed simply on its signal, I must also point out that what you past as factual information is nowhere near factual. As you suggested, I have gone back and looked at all the books and trends... just where has KDBN ever shown up with a 0.4?

OK, I'll have to concede the ratings point for the moment...I do have a printout of where exactly I got that info, but it's buried at home. I will find it. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong...and I'll be the first to apologize. If the info I do have is flawed, I'll be happy to answer for that. I did surf the web after your posting, and could not find a complete year-by-year breakdown of KDBN's 12+ numbers, but found a great quote that had Cumulus 'likely changing the format of KDBN after the sale (from Susquehanna) due to low listenership and a poor signal.'

I see that you're a new poster on the board, and when a response of your nature happens when something or someone is under attack, it's usually damage control from the "target." I believe yours is the first post ever that truly defends the station, although I salute you for owning up to the obvious problems. I didn't set out to launch an attack here, but I get so frustrated with The Bone, knowing what it COULD be and what it actually is. The Modern Classic Rock approach I've described on this board many, many times is something that keeps the Classic Rock roots and would appeal to a coveted demo. The latest format 'tweak' of playing old, then new, then kinda old, then whatever is no way to build TSL...it's an invitation for listeners to tune out en masse after each song. (Ask Jack how that inconsistency has stunted their growth.) Also, that Modern Classic Rock just might appeal to the Dallas Cowboys crowd.

Tell you what...starting next Friday, I'll start playing such a format for the next few weeks over KMNY-1360 and we'll see what the response is (once folks get past the fact that it's on AM.) If it fails, I'll gladly shut up about it for good. If it succeeds, please take some notes!

 

[jeffdfw]

While I don't know if I qualify for middle age yet at 43... I think I have a wide musical taste. Sure I am probaly this boards biggest advocate for smooth jazz but I also like Alt Rock, Classic Alt, Dance (club music) and Hot/Modern AC. While I can get some of this music on FM (Edge & Mix) most of it I get from XM. Flight 26, BPM, Fred, Ethel, Lucy & Watercolors. What am I listening to right now? No, not Dave Koz... The Bravery. My dislikes (if you care - and you probably don't) All forms or Country, Spanish, Classical, Rap/Hip Hop & Classic Rock to name a few.

 

[little1]

Not to split hairs here but they did finish with a 0.9 in the past phase 2 trend. ;D

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,96738.0.html

Really? Because when I click through that link and the following link, it shows a 1.2