2Son said:KDM 7000 said:ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKS (HOW USEFUL ARE THEY?):
I guess depending on which aspects of a situation is being judged, an armchair quarterback could provide some beneficial helpful information at times (as long as the suggestions or info being presented isn't superficially based purely on personal emotion). This is a discussion I've brought up a few times within the Atlanta section because there have been numerous times board posters (including myself) would complain about specific aspects of certain stations and formats and we'd all provide suggestions on how to 'fix' the situation and make the station better, and there were always those people who said "it could never be done".
THE BENEFITS OF ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKS:
To sum the rest of that story up in a nutshell, a lot of those stations that were complained about had eventually (either knowingly or coincidentally) just happened to finally do precisely as many of the board posters were suggesting all along - and their ratings improved! Which stations specifically? WSB-FM, WALR, and WSTR just to name a few.
THE DETRIMENTS OF ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKS:
So, sometimes, outsiders looking in can see things that the insiders are missing. Does this mean they can program the entire format for multiple days and carry out a station long term? No. But it's possible that at least one or two of the suggestions coming from an armchair quarterback could be valuable and beneficial. However, in most cases, I'm not too sure that I'd recommend paying too much mind to an armchair quarterback because most armchair quarterbacks may base their thoughts and decisions based on personal emotions and expect that a station should flip their entire format to fit their format desires and needs.
THE PASSIVE AGGRESIVE ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACK:
Luckily for me, I have it easy as an armchair quarterback - not only because KZON has already implemented basically every idea I've (verbally and secretly) had in mind for a rhythmic format, and not only because my favorite sound has once again become a marketable chr format sound, but also because (1) It doesn't take much to impress me radio-wise, (2) I've learned to put sensible limits on everything I suggest/expect in regard to radio, and (3) I will basically take whatever I can get from radio (which explains why I seemingly get overly excited over a weekly one hour house/dance show at 3am... and for those of you who were wondering why, now you know!!). The reason it doesn't take much to impress me radio-wise is because I've basically learned over time how radio works, and know that business, sales, and revenue are the primary focus. Therefore, I know to be very thankful even if it's only for a 30 minute specialty program that caters at least somewhat to my personal obscure musical tastes (which now explains why I always focus my suggestions primarily towards specialty shows and mixshows as oppose to wondering why we don't have a full blown pure dance station!). Also notice how it didn't even take much for me to get hooked on KWSS, yet I praised them as if they made the station for me, personally...
I guess, now that I think of it, I'm not that good at this armchair quarterbacking thing. Either that, or I'm satisfied with what I already have for the most part. I'm like a....Passive Aggressive Armchair Quarterback.
MY ARMCHAIR HYPOTHESIS:
Now, lets say that KZON never existed as they are today. If that were the case, I'll admit - I'd be the BIGGEST armchair quarterback on here complaining and talking about how a KZON style rhythmic format should be tried in Phoenix, and I'd be armchair quarterbacking KZZP, KKFR, and KMVA to go that direction so much that I probably would've broken a world record for armchair quarterbacking a fantasy rhythmic format.
I still don't see how much better KZON is than KZZP. Sure, I like DJ Decipher's mix on late Saturdays and I like the amount of mixing that they do, but I just don't like many of the songs they mix. It seems that KZON was a little edgier with their music last summer than they are now. When I start hearing Nadia Ali's "Pressure" or something to the likes of that during regular rotation, I may rethink my opinion of KZON. What I WILL say is that KZON is no former Power 92 (circa '95-'97), but neither is KZZP, KMVA, nor KKFR.
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KEXX Goes Adult Hits
- Thread starter radioresearcher
- Start date
2Son said:
That's very debatable, and at the same time, very hard to explain. While KZZP may have a bigger regular playlist (which is what most of us board posters and radio freaks tend to desire), somehow, KZON still sounds better (at least to me) overall. I'm not sure if it's because they have a lot more mixes where they are able to feature more exclusive music and harder remixes or what, but... I always find myself going back to KZON. I will say that out of all major Phoenix stations that mix, KZON is the one that gets the edgiest out of all audible Phoenix stations on the radio dial during the weekdays. On weekends, they may have SOME competition in regard to edginess, but even so, they still outmix everybody else on the Phoenix radio dial.
As far as them being like Power 92 in 95 - 97, well..... it's hard to say. Question is: Does KZON play more or less back to back uptempo dance hits within a timeslot than Power 92 did in 95 - 97? Another thing that makes it difficult to judge is the fact that back in the 90's, there were popular dance artists and popular pop artists (along with r&b, hip hop, alternative...etc.) all separated. Now, it seems as if the popular artists in pop and r&b and hip hop are also the mainstream dance artists (and vice versa). We no longer have those "established dance artists" who were known strictly as dance, separated from pop, r&b, and hip hop anymore. That's what makes it hard to say if the two eras in time and stations could or should be compared. Today's dance also has way less variety in instrumental production style and sound, less variety in singers, and on top of that, half of today's music is worse, lyrically.
Would I compare 101.5 today to Power 92 in 1995-1997? Not sure. But could I compare 103.9 in 1997 - 1998 and 2000 - 2001 to the current 101.5? Yes. The difference is the times and music has changed, but 101.5 could definitely be a party station. They have the music, the personalities, and everything. The 1997 version of 103.9 didn't even mix things up as much as KZON does now.
Also, KZON somehow sounds more adult friendly than KZZP, which sounds geared more towards a younger audience - when it comes to how the on-air personalities talk and conduct themselves. What's funny about that is I bet KZON isn't even trying to sound more adult friendly. It's just happening naturally. KZON sounds more "family friendly" and gives you a sense of being "at home" in the Az., kind of similar to how FOX 10 NEWS feels more "homey" than the other news channels, even Channel 3. Maybe it's just me, but that's how I feel. KZON is the KESZ of rhythmic and chr.
Arrg, I think I have a headache now. The term for radio is Armchair PD. And it is NOT a person sitting at home debating the rotations. It is a person somewhat coaching the hired PD (like a music director) but the person either gets ignored, or receives no credit for his input / assisting.
DJ Perry, I didnt mean "Armchair PD"...I meant "Armchair QB"...because we are all ARMCHAIR QBs on this message board, pontificating over things we have no control over...
I just wanted to throw my two cents in to page 15 of this debacle. First of all, I don't know anything about radio. I don't know the numbers or the abbreviations or the ins and the outs, the dos and the don'ts. I don't know about signal strength or rotations or Hot AC AAA Urban Rythmic Contemporary Country Christian. I do know this. I am a 37 year old male. I remember videos on MTV. I remember the 80s, the 90s and Y2K. I have a job and kids and a wife and a home and I buy things. I have money and needs and according to a phone call years ago with Gadger, I was the demographic KEDJ wanted. I watched the X Games, I am computer savvy, I have cable and internet and all the things associated with my generation. If I owned a dictionary (I don't, I have Wikipedia instead) and you looked up Gen X, there would be a picture of me and my friends. All of us getting ready for our 20 year high school reunion. I listened to grunge in high school, I listened to hair bands in jr. high, I listened to rap, I listened to rock, I listened to indie and industrial and metal and classic rock and hip hop and techno and my friends listened to country and crunk and contemporary and I think that's one of the problems. Gen X doesn't have one type of music to define us. We listen to lots and lots of songs. I have gigs of MP3s. I have 10 Pandora stations. I have owned thousands of tapes or CDs. No one station is going to hit on all that and I know it. It's OK. What I want is for each station to do what it does and do it well. Don't try to be everything to everybody. KSLX is great if I'm in a classic rock mood. KDKB is great if I want to hear Cindarella. KUPD is great if I want to hear one song on my 45 minute drive to work. And the Edge used to be great at alternative. But somewhere, the Edge lost its way.
I'm really let down by their switch, flip, change, whatever. I don't know why they did it. I don't know how come. The people who run stations don't really know it, but radio can be an important part of peoples' lives. When a DJ get replaced, quits, gets fired, the stations never explain it. They never let a listener know why or what. It's just a new voice announcing the same songs. And when they change formats, it's an even bigger mystery. Maybe that's why I liked the Edge. Robin's been there as long as I can remember. Dead Air Dave was there forever. Kraven's been there for a decade I think. When they got rid of the Morning Ritual, they let Chuck say goodbye. After a while, you start to identify with the people who talk to you while you drive, while you work, while you relax or swim or whatever. Some of my earliest memories of radio are of a guy named Dave getting in big, big trouble on 98. By the time he left, I'd outgrown the music and was listening to alternative, so I barely noticed. When he came to the Edge, I was cautiously optimistic. I wanted to see him succeed, but I was not holding my breath. I listened occasionally, but I also listened to KWSS and KZZP and KSLX and KUPD and NPR and on and on and on. And I listened to CDs and MP3s. But 103.9 was always preset number one on the radio. Until now.
No radio station could hope to compete with the variety of music I have at my disposal. I could have an iPod with 1000 songs on it, so I can pretty much hear whatever song I want, whenever I want. But an iPod could never compete with a DJ. A person behind the music. Someone who is passionate and knowledgable and good(ish) at what they do. Someone to talk about the music and to educate me on music, both new and old. I know the radio can not play only the songs I like and even if they did, it would never be at the right time. Don't worry though, if I flip channels, I'll be back. And most of all, don't pander. My genration can smell insincerity. Don't pretend to be something you are not.
I am Generation X, but I am not who 103.9 plays music for. My wife may be. My mom may be. Heck, my little sister may be, but this station is not for me. This is not my 103.9. The Edge is my 103.9.
I'm really let down by their switch, flip, change, whatever. I don't know why they did it. I don't know how come. The people who run stations don't really know it, but radio can be an important part of peoples' lives. When a DJ get replaced, quits, gets fired, the stations never explain it. They never let a listener know why or what. It's just a new voice announcing the same songs. And when they change formats, it's an even bigger mystery. Maybe that's why I liked the Edge. Robin's been there as long as I can remember. Dead Air Dave was there forever. Kraven's been there for a decade I think. When they got rid of the Morning Ritual, they let Chuck say goodbye. After a while, you start to identify with the people who talk to you while you drive, while you work, while you relax or swim or whatever. Some of my earliest memories of radio are of a guy named Dave getting in big, big trouble on 98. By the time he left, I'd outgrown the music and was listening to alternative, so I barely noticed. When he came to the Edge, I was cautiously optimistic. I wanted to see him succeed, but I was not holding my breath. I listened occasionally, but I also listened to KWSS and KZZP and KSLX and KUPD and NPR and on and on and on. And I listened to CDs and MP3s. But 103.9 was always preset number one on the radio. Until now.
No radio station could hope to compete with the variety of music I have at my disposal. I could have an iPod with 1000 songs on it, so I can pretty much hear whatever song I want, whenever I want. But an iPod could never compete with a DJ. A person behind the music. Someone who is passionate and knowledgable and good(ish) at what they do. Someone to talk about the music and to educate me on music, both new and old. I know the radio can not play only the songs I like and even if they did, it would never be at the right time. Don't worry though, if I flip channels, I'll be back. And most of all, don't pander. My genration can smell insincerity. Don't pretend to be something you are not.
I am Generation X, but I am not who 103.9 plays music for. My wife may be. My mom may be. Heck, my little sister may be, but this station is not for me. This is not my 103.9. The Edge is my 103.9.
I don't know Dave Pratt, but I must ask; If this format flip didn't involve Dave Pratt, would it have become as nearly famous as it did?
Would there be as much talk about it if it were just one of those "normal regular unknown guy" format changes? For some reason, this flip seems to be receiving an incredible amount of attention. I wonder what would've happened if this KEXX format flip was "snuck" in slowly, similar to how KYOT transitioned over... or what if they just went Christmas over December then came back with the new format music instead of doing a full blown switch randomly in the middle of the week. Would it have made a difference?
And how is a format that was said to have such low ratings (I never actually researched KEDJ/KEXX for myself) being missed so much, while KMVA, which I remember being around a 3 share and having pretty much the same signal strength as KEDJ before flipping in 2011, caused no "heartbreak" when they flipped?
Would there be as much talk about it if it were just one of those "normal regular unknown guy" format changes? For some reason, this flip seems to be receiving an incredible amount of attention. I wonder what would've happened if this KEXX format flip was "snuck" in slowly, similar to how KYOT transitioned over... or what if they just went Christmas over December then came back with the new format music instead of doing a full blown switch randomly in the middle of the week. Would it have made a difference?
And how is a format that was said to have such low ratings (I never actually researched KEDJ/KEXX for myself) being missed so much, while KMVA, which I remember being around a 3 share and having pretty much the same signal strength as KEDJ before flipping in 2011, caused no "heartbreak" when they flipped?
It's not the format per se. For all KEDJ's/KEXX's flaws, they did (past tense) have an impressive stable of "exclusive" tracks that were never played on any other terrestrial AM/FM's - local artists like The Format and Authority Zero and alt-rock would-be staples like Social Distortion's "Angel's Wings (acoustic version)" and My Chemical Romance's version of "Grace Under Pressure," not to mention that disturbingly-addictive, I-know-it's-not-really-Kurt-Vonnegut commencement speech remix. I still remember hearing the Oasis/Green Day mash-up 'Boulevard of Broken Dreams,' which is unlikely to get airplay ever again. When you're able to maintain a programming ratio like that, it goes without saying you're going to feel hosed when you turn on that same station one day and hear some 1970's crap like "Carry On My Wayward Son." There's nothing remotely "exclusive" about anything they're playing anymore.KDM 7000 said:
KDM 7000 said:
Because generally speaking listeners of alt. rock radio are passionate about music and actually love music (see the post above by "philthy" in this thread) while listeners of smooth jazz or rhythmic ac use the radio as an appliance.
Perhaps CC which runs successful alternative rock stations in Denver (4.2 6+) and Dallas (3.2 6+), and is defeating its sister station Active Rock competition in those respective markets, will give the format a go at 95.5. They have received great ratings with KMXP and its slight alternative lean. This would enable them to split that off to give it its own format at 95.5, allowing KMXP to be more in the adult realm instead of playing Franz Ferdinand, Muse, Depeche Mode and The Offspring amongst the Hot AC titles. The demise of 103.9 would then become somewhat of a blessing in disguise if the market were to join LA, Boston, Kansas City, Seattle and the many other areas that have the format on a strong signal.
The music log for 103.9 shows that it played Pet Shop Boys "What Have I Done to Deserve This" yesterday in between slow jams by Journey and REO Speedwagon. Fitting; it's as though the station itself is trying to speak
The music log for 103.9 shows that it played Pet Shop Boys "What Have I Done to Deserve This" yesterday in between slow jams by Journey and REO Speedwagon. Fitting; it's as though the station itself is trying to speak
the one in denver is so funny. every afternoon they play some atrocious POS song. It's a contest called "Please Make it Stop" They usually give away tickets to something or another. Anywayz, I love the horrible - non-alt - songs they pick, and how fast the listeners are to come up with the title and artist so it WILL stop.
Wow there's a lot of crappy music floating around.... (104.3 seems to have picked up a boatload of such crap at a thrift store).
Wow there's a lot of crappy music floating around.... (104.3 seems to have picked up a boatload of such crap at a thrift store).
KDM 7000 said:
Prior to the format change, Pratt stood out like Ted Nugent at a PETA convention. And that's aside from the fact that he's a washed out bitter old man who can't cope with growing old. He thinks he is a real wit but he has the intellect of Rick Perry. Maybe that's where he should find his next niche: in right-wing hatespeak radio. He could team up with another quarter-watt wit, John David Hayworthless. Boy would that ever be a duo! Probably be the first show to garner a negative share.... Being subjected to Pratt's lowbrow mentality and collection of KTEL hits grows old really fast. ;D
The worst. The peak now sounds like an alternative station in comparison. Dave Pratt is a snake oil salesman. Hope they go broke quite frankly. All this hype about Gen-X and social media makes me ashamed to be a digital marketing professional. THIS IS NOT GEN X - it's tail end big hair baby boom and bad adult contemporary in some strange melange - if you can call it anything at all. Just another retread of stations already in this market doing a better job. They just increased the listener base of 106.7.
RIP edge, X and especially Craven. Hope the old crew lands on their feet and on air.
RIP edge, X and especially Craven. Hope the old crew lands on their feet and on air.
:-X
Lips, SEALED.
By the way, do they play anything by Seal on KEXX?
OH, AND ANOTHER QUESTION:
I remember back when 103.9 KPTY played "barbie girl" by Aqua nonstop, back to back, for an extended period of time as an attempt to raise donation money or something for some situation. The goal was to keep playing it until a certain amount of money was made, and only when they reached the minimum desired amount, would they stop the song from repeating.
I wonder how doing such things affects ratings. Do people actually keep listening, or could you lose a mass amount of listeners at once by doing this?
WHICH ALL GOES BACK TO....
-------> *And how is this worse than doing a 5 or 10 minute quick mix of exclusive electro dance or some other style of music and keep listeners engaged by having people call in around that time for a large scale prize?*
Not to mention this:
How do these stations get away with these type of things while a 10 minute day time quick mix of mainstream dance music or something of that nature on a rhythmic / top 40 station would be (considered) devastating?
Lips, SEALED.
By the way, do they play anything by Seal on KEXX?
OH, AND ANOTHER QUESTION:
Bill Drake said:the one in denver is so funny. every afternoon they play some atrocious POS song. It's a contest called "Please Make it Stop" They usually give away tickets to something or another. Anywayz, I love the horrible - non-alt - songs they pick, and how fast the listeners are to come up with the title and artist so it WILL stop.
I remember back when 103.9 KPTY played "barbie girl" by Aqua nonstop, back to back, for an extended period of time as an attempt to raise donation money or something for some situation. The goal was to keep playing it until a certain amount of money was made, and only when they reached the minimum desired amount, would they stop the song from repeating.
I wonder how doing such things affects ratings. Do people actually keep listening, or could you lose a mass amount of listeners at once by doing this?
WHICH ALL GOES BACK TO....
-------> *And how is this worse than doing a 5 or 10 minute quick mix of exclusive electro dance or some other style of music and keep listeners engaged by having people call in around that time for a large scale prize?*
KDM 7000 said:
Not to mention this:
Martin Mac said:
How do these stations get away with these type of things while a 10 minute day time quick mix of mainstream dance music or something of that nature on a rhythmic / top 40 station would be (considered) devastating?
Another question:
To the average listener who may not know Dave or the entire situation; Is it more likely that there'll be more listeners who are unhappy with the format change, or will there be more listeners who are happy once they discover the new format?
I'm just trying to see, from a fair and balanced outsider point of view, whether or not the format flip and choice of new format was genuinely a good idea. How would the average listener, the person on the outside looking in, feel about it? And would the people disappointed with the format change exceed the amount of people who are happy with the new format if we randomly selected and forced 2,500 old KEDJ listeners and 2,500 new listeners to listen to KEXX for 8 days and followed it with a vote on which format they desire most?
And based on the feelings expressed here so far, would it have made any difference what 103.9 flipped to? And since we're still in the Martin Luther King spirit, I must ask; Are we judging Dave based more on his format change, personal feelings towards him, or on the true character of the person?
I know there's been something going on for quite some time now since the whole Barbeque era, but.... never knew exactly what or why.
To the average listener who may not know Dave or the entire situation; Is it more likely that there'll be more listeners who are unhappy with the format change, or will there be more listeners who are happy once they discover the new format?
I'm just trying to see, from a fair and balanced outsider point of view, whether or not the format flip and choice of new format was genuinely a good idea. How would the average listener, the person on the outside looking in, feel about it? And would the people disappointed with the format change exceed the amount of people who are happy with the new format if we randomly selected and forced 2,500 old KEDJ listeners and 2,500 new listeners to listen to KEXX for 8 days and followed it with a vote on which format they desire most?
And based on the feelings expressed here so far, would it have made any difference what 103.9 flipped to? And since we're still in the Martin Luther King spirit, I must ask; Are we judging Dave based more on his format change, personal feelings towards him, or on the true character of the person?
I know there's been something going on for quite some time now since the whole Barbeque era, but.... never knew exactly what or why.
You don't have to know him. Just listening to his arrogant, condescending and unfunny tripe for more than five minutes is like having a root canal with no meds.
Bill Drake said:You don't have to know him. Just listening to his arrogant, condescending and unfunny tripe for more than five minutes is like having a root canal with no meds.
What I'd like to know is why MC has to be his perennial sidekick. I thought the p.y.t. was his sidekick. What's a TV news anchor doing on a radio show if someone else is doing news? Whoever The Mayor wants to hang out with gets be his sidekick, too? Not only have I removed 103.9 from the pre-sets, I have also stopped watching Channel 12 news - which, as his employer, is where MC belongs. Not on the radio, unless it's adjunct to his job duties at AZCentral/Gannet/Channel 12. Which I don't think "Dave Pratt Lives" qualifies as, since it's an entirely different company.
indieradioguy said:Bill Drake said:You don't have to know him. Just listening to his arrogant, condescending and unfunny tripe for more than five minutes is like having a root canal with no meds.
What I'd like to know is why MC has to be his perennial sidekick. I thought the p.y.t. was his sidekick. What's a TV news anchor doing on a radio show if someone else is doing news? Whoever The Mayor wants to hang out with gets be his sidekick, too? Not only have I removed 103.9 from the pre-sets, I have also stopped watching Channel 12 news - which, as his employer, is where MC belongs. Not on the radio, unless it's adjunct to his job duties at AZCentral/Gannet/Channel 12. Which I don't think "Dave Pratt Lives" qualifies as, since it's an entirely different company.
I thought that "sidekick" crap went out with the "Morning Zoo" b.s.!
Who is their voiceover guy? Sounds very familiar.
103.9? Jerry Clifton (former owner of 103.9 KPTY, Arizona's Party Station
It might've been Jerry Clifton last week...but now it is mos def Nick Michaels. This guy costs a pretty penny...which I guess you can afford when you have virtually no airstaff for the time being?
His website says that his voice "has appeared on over a billion dollars of paid advertising."
Holy Voiceover, Batman!!! ;D
103.9? Jerry Clifton (former owner of 103.9 KPTY, Arizona's Party Station
It might've been Jerry Clifton last week...but now it is mos def Nick Michaels. This guy costs a pretty penny...which I guess you can afford when you have virtually no airstaff for the time being?
His website says that his voice "has appeared on over a billion dollars of paid advertising."
Holy Voiceover, Batman!!! ;D
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