4
4 Towers
Guest
maybe 1510 KFNN can get boosters for parts of Phoenix, like Business station AM 1300 in Seattle already has or has applied for, or 77 KKOB albuquerque already has in Santa Fe!
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KFNN Power Up
- Thread starter oldiesfan6479
- Start date
4 Towers said:
Or maybe KFuNN can move to a different frequency that covers more of the metro at night. TMISU would love to unload 8~Sixty.
Nurse Czarina Jeff and I wonder about one thing, though: How could the KFuNNsters bring up day power 45 minutes early if 8~Sixty runs with more power at night than day?
Dr. Akbar said:
Gee Doc, I think we should give the KayFuNNsters credit where credit is due--
they're (apparently) powering up about 35 minutes early, not 45. <grin>
And powering down about nine minutes late.
To bear that out, yesterday was 5:54:09 AM up, 6:09:06 PM down.
We again invite the staff and management of KFNN 1510 Mesa/Phoenix
to post on this board exactly what they are doing and when, in terms
of power up/down, especially if there's some PSRA/PSSA involved that
is not evident to us radio geek listeners.
But if there is a PSRA, why is the power up still before 6:00 AM? And for
a PSSA, why for only nine minutes?
And why does my radio's signal strength meter show the same reading
for the entire period between (early) power up and (late) power down,
which would seem to indicate KayFuNN is running 22 kw the entire time?
4
4 Towers
Guest
If you are very close to the transmitter, then the signal stength meter may be stuck at its highest level so you wouldn't notice the difference night and day.oldiesfan6479 said:
Check for bandwidth and directionality of the signal, this should change to some extent, even if the signal meter doesn't change.
If you have an expensive device calibrated for millivolts per meter (mV/m) you would notice a difference.
4 Towers said:
I'm in the 'Tuke, the KayFuNN sticks (diplexed with KKNT 960) are in
north Phoenix, above the Loop 101/Squaw Peak Pkwy. interchange--
I'm guessing about 25 miles distance between the two.
During day power, I get a constant "6 bars" on the Sangean 909 meter;
when KFNN drops to 100 w-N, their signal basically disappears here.
pberger said:
Last night's power down was at 6:04:05 PM.
So while they got a little closer to the specified down time, the up time was
even further from monthly specs. To use a Lumberyard (and late-night cable)
analogy--it sounds like "lamptimers gone wild." <wink>
The KayFuNNsters wrapped up October with pretty much the same
questionable power up/down times as in recent days.
Saturday was up 5:54:04 AM (for a 6:30) and down 6:04:02 PM
(for a 6:00).
With the new month today, they amazingly
played real close to
the vest (i.e., followed specs)--power up 6:59:04 AM (7:00) and
power down 5:29:02 PM (5:30). For now we'll congratulate them
for playing by the rules, for the first day of November at least.
We do need to ding the "Big" 1480 (KPHX) however, as they were
already on day power at 6:49 AM and were still running five gallons
at 5:40 PM.
And one other power discrepancy...Saturday evening KXXT 1010
Tolleson (15 kw-D, 250 w-N, DA-D) had a jock talk show which
(from what I heard) airs 9 PM-12 AM. During the 11:00 hour the
station seemed to be running quite a bit more than 250 watts,
as my Sangean 909 meter pegged just a bit below where it does
during the day--full strength. Compare to this evening where the
meter is bouncing around at 40-50% and the signal is "tearing" as
it is stepped on by others. Late last night the signal was solid.
questionable power up/down times as in recent days.
Saturday was up 5:54:04 AM (for a 6:30) and down 6:04:02 PM
(for a 6:00).
With the new month today, they amazingly
played real close tothe vest (i.e., followed specs)--power up 6:59:04 AM (7:00) and
power down 5:29:02 PM (5:30). For now we'll congratulate them
for playing by the rules, for the first day of November at least.
We do need to ding the "Big" 1480 (KPHX) however, as they were
already on day power at 6:49 AM and were still running five gallons
at 5:40 PM.
And one other power discrepancy...Saturday evening KXXT 1010
Tolleson (15 kw-D, 250 w-N, DA-D) had a jock talk show which
(from what I heard) airs 9 PM-12 AM. During the 11:00 hour the
station seemed to be running quite a bit more than 250 watts,
as my Sangean 909 meter pegged just a bit below where it does
during the day--full strength. Compare to this evening where the
meter is bouncing around at 40-50% and the signal is "tearing" as
it is stepped on by others. Late last night the signal was solid.
oldiesfan6479 said:The KayFuNNsters wrapped up October with pretty much the same
questionable power up/down times as in recent days.
Saturday was up 5:54:04 AM (for a 6:30) and down 6:04:02 PM
(for a 6:00).
With the new month today, they amazingly
the vest (i.e., followed specs)--power up 6:59:04 AM (7:00) and
power down 5:29:02 PM (5:30). For now we'll congratulate them
for playing by the rules, for the first day of November at least.
The rubber meets the road Monday morning at 6am as KFuNN goes live, local and first (hmmm...why does that sound vaguely familiar ??? ) with Bidniss For Breakfast. If the Buckeye Boyz hypothesis is correct, somehow the Big 15~Ten will manage to bump the power up from 100 watts to ummmmm....something like 22kw so their live morning show can be heard. We've asked the Lamptimer and Illegal Power Grabber Czar (aka Oldiesfan) to conduct a scientific test of our hypothesis and anxiously await his findings!
I wonder who's giving KGA a bad time tonight up here in Idaho. Going on 8:30P Mountain.
The guys running the Media Hut will be taken aback to learn that
again this morning it was a treat--no trick--at KayFuNN 1510.
The 7:00 AM power up was at 6:59:04, exactly as on Sunday.
again this morning it was a treat--no trick--at KayFuNN 1510.
The 7:00 AM power up was at 6:59:04, exactly as on Sunday.
Nurse Czarina Jeff and I began listening to KFuNN around 6:10 Monday morning....we knew they were not on night power as those 100 watts come nowhere close to the Media Hut's front door! A lot of skywave interference from the 15~Ten in Denver. In fact we heard the Mile Hi station run an EAN test with KFuNN pulsing in and out. Shortly before 7am the carrier dumped and two seconds later the full 22kw came blasting on. Obviously they're using some kind of PSRA...but at what power? And why would there be a carrier dump going from PSRA to full power as there is no change of pattern? And at what time do the KFuNNsters do their pre-sunrise run up....6am or 5:45am-ish. Dunno as the Nurse Czarina snores so loudly it's hard for me to hear the radio! Guess the mystery remains.
T
The Beave
Guest
Dr. Akbar said:
Doc...
I looked here: http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/235881-22651.pdf
there actually is a change in pattern from night to day... as The main lobe points off to the North East (why I have no clue what anyone was thinking on that one) with the secondary lobes directed at Mesa and Black Canyon City.
Here's the killer...
At night the main lobe points TOWARDS GLENDALE/Buckeye. But at only 100 ounces, Usually in the early morning (5am to sunrise) AM stations tend to skip something awesome. Up in ND, our 400 ounces was received as far away as Germany and Finland... But some other factors played into that such as weather, and ground conductivity. I wouldn't doubt that KuNNers could be heard at that hour.
When I looked at the license online, The only bad boy activity I saw was the great EAS failure of Y2k.
Nothing yet about power issues.
The Beave
The Beave said:
Dear Mr The Beave...
Our understanding of PSRA is a station may use their daytime pattern, but at a reduced power setting until local sunrise. If that's the case, KFuNN would switch from four sticks (100 watts) to two at 6am with their PSRA power (whatever the hell that is). Then at 7am, bump that baby up to 22kw. It's also our understanding that most newer transmitters can make the switch from low to high power without dumping the carrier (carrier being dumped when patterns are changed to prevent frying valuable xmttr parts & scorpions). That's why we wondered why the Big 15~Ten dumped their carrier shortly before 7am on Monday.
However, the Nurse Czarina and I could be out of our minds on this one due to the late hours we spent explaining what to do when MST returns in the Valley on the last Sunday of October. Perhaps less medicated minds...like Professor Fybush or even the Old Gringo... can confirm or deny our lunacy?!
Dr. Akbar
ps - here's why KFuNN sounds so dual personality between 6 and 7am this month: http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KCKK&service=AM&status=L&hours=N That's 25kw pointed right in our direction and on MST. YIKES!!
KayFuNN 1510 wins the "DJ, tight board, good news, production, third phone"
award again today (Tuesday), with power up at 6:59:04 AM and power down
at 5:29:01 PM.
award again today (Tuesday), with power up at 6:59:04 AM and power down
at 5:29:01 PM.
T
The Beave
Guest
Dr. Akbar said:
I examined the FCC site really close (I need to bill someone for those 2 hours - then again it's all charity.)
KFuNNers do not have any listed PSRA or PSSA times meaning (as it reads) they have to make that switch right at the monthly sunrise/sunset times as dictated on their license.
I'm suprized there is no carrier drop as the phasor and diplexer swich between power & tower modes at the last 2 stations I was at we had "BRAND SPANKIN' NEW" transmitters and equipment. The Harris TX at the last station would drop for 3 seconds then come on in the mode selected, this happened even if you switched it right on the transmitter box.
The only thing I can think of is that someone is doing the dirty, and firing up the night transmitter then making the switch, then powering off the day TX. (that is really hard on equipment, expensive, and dangerous)
On the Denver station the ground conductivity must be a lot better there, than here in the caliche.
By my calculations the primary contour should only be 12 nautical miles at night @ 100 watts. The fringe should approximately push out 28-30 nautical miles on a good night... and skip well on an overcast night or if the valley has that thick brown cloud that stays overnight. I have consulted a few AM Engineering wizards and there is some head scratching there also.
I would believe Dr. Scott PhD., would be able to tell us about the deal with 1510am.Dr. Akbar said:
The Beave said:
Your request for compensation has been denied by the Buckeye Boyz Radio Czars because you missed KFuNN's PSRA http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=4109 and PSSA http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=2079 However the next time you're at the Media Hut, we'll buy you a cup of coffee from our aged vending machine.
Dr. Akbar said:
The Beave said:
We agree, but don't leave out the Old Gringo as his knowledge of ancient modulation far exceds his reputation for modesty! Oh...one final thought - Nurse Czarina Jeff and I somehow remember reading once that PSRA is maxed at 500 watts. If that's the case, how can KFuNN even be heard between 6 and 7am this month when the Denver station is still using their 25kw blowtorch pattern to the southwest?
T
The Beave
Guest
Dr. Akbar said:
This is complete news to me.
As it does change the complete picture I now know why fringe signal is appearing in Buckeye at 6 am...Dr. Akbar said:
500 Watts on a crowded frequency is not a powerhouse But it will be heard UNDER a stronger signal 40 nautical miles (as the buzzard flies) away from it's source sometimes even farther depending on atmospheric conditions.
The authorization suprized me... As I didn't see it on the original FCC records, but is fairly recent (2007/2008)
The power and distance don't.
Make it a Margarita, and you are on!
The Beave said:
Those are only served when Professora Wacky Patty is lecturing!
We don't know how many watts KFuNN runs during their PSRA time...anywhere from 5 or 6 up to 500. The wording of the authorization is way beyond our mental comprehension.
To verify they're running legal, Oldiesfan would have to take a measurement at 5:30am when KFuNN is supposed to be running 100 watts. Then at 6:30am when they're using their PSRA. And then after 7am when the Big 15~Ten cranks out the Big 22kw. Nurse Czarina Jeff and I realize this is a lot of work for O.F., but we know he's up to the high calling of our daily work at the Buckeye Media Hut!
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