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KFRC
- Thread starter BossJock1947
- Start date
Well! Whom would have guessed that was true?
BossRadioDJ said:
Gee, that's the last time I ask you for a hall pass.
The reference was an answer to a question about the universality of Top 40. As such, it is more than apropriate to discuss where the format came from and how far it extended. Many people do not realize that the format name is "Top 40" and not "English lanugage American Top 40" because the format rapidly caught on wherever there was private commercial radio.
The fact that Mike Joseph developed Hot Hits, at least partially, outside the continental US and in Spanish makes this all the more relevant.
Interestingly, some of the early PAMS and CRC and later TM jingles were sung in over a dozen languages in Dallas.
Going back to the initial premise of this thread, here's my take:
We've run out the clock for a non-current music format on a station with the call letters KFRC to have any relevance.
For it to work, it has to do well 25-54. Skewing female wouldn't hurt. Dead center of that target is 39 and a half, which means she turns 40 in August. Some statistics:
She was born in 1968.
Her peak musical awareness years (ages 16-22) were 1984-1990. During that time, KFRC the Top 40 station was in freefall and then became a nostalgia station. There are absolutely no fond memories for her, or for any of the half of the 25-54 demo younger than her.
You've got to get to 41-44 years or older to get any clear connection with the last strong KFRC, the Gerry Cagle era (1981-1983) but that was a blend of rhythmic and rock that wouldn't be part of any oldies station (except maybe Movin', and that hasn't played out).
Before that, it would be the Michael Spears-Les Garland timesweep (1973-1980), but now the likely minimum age is 45, the upper range is 57, and that's pretty much the music that's not working now on 106.9.
Any of these formats might have upsides...even a more traditional late 60s-early-mid 70s oldies station might...but the call letters KFRC carry with them some expectations from geeks like us that have no point of contact with the real-world needs to serve a salable demographic. You may as well call it KSAN, KOBY, KEWB, or KYA...the calls are that out-of-sync with the mission. Time to let them go, or apply them to something completely new (as KSFO and KNBR did).
---Michael Hagerty
We've run out the clock for a non-current music format on a station with the call letters KFRC to have any relevance.
For it to work, it has to do well 25-54. Skewing female wouldn't hurt. Dead center of that target is 39 and a half, which means she turns 40 in August. Some statistics:
She was born in 1968.
Her peak musical awareness years (ages 16-22) were 1984-1990. During that time, KFRC the Top 40 station was in freefall and then became a nostalgia station. There are absolutely no fond memories for her, or for any of the half of the 25-54 demo younger than her.
You've got to get to 41-44 years or older to get any clear connection with the last strong KFRC, the Gerry Cagle era (1981-1983) but that was a blend of rhythmic and rock that wouldn't be part of any oldies station (except maybe Movin', and that hasn't played out).
Before that, it would be the Michael Spears-Les Garland timesweep (1973-1980), but now the likely minimum age is 45, the upper range is 57, and that's pretty much the music that's not working now on 106.9.
Any of these formats might have upsides...even a more traditional late 60s-early-mid 70s oldies station might...but the call letters KFRC carry with them some expectations from geeks like us that have no point of contact with the real-world needs to serve a salable demographic. You may as well call it KSAN, KOBY, KEWB, or KYA...the calls are that out-of-sync with the mission. Time to let them go, or apply them to something completely new (as KSFO and KNBR did).
---Michael Hagerty
"We've run out the clock for a non-current music format on a station with the call letters KFRC to have any relevance."
I think you're giving call letters too much importance, Michael. If/when 90s "Classic Hits" or whatever you want to call them - become popular on the radio, there's no reason the station can't still be called KFRC. To use another example: the KMEL call letters started in the late 70s as an AOR station. Then the station flipped to "All Hits," then morphed into Rap and Hip/Hop; yet the call letters have remained. The "brand" has had different meanings in different decades, and nobody in the station's current core audience knows or cares that it used to be an AOR station with a Camel for a logo.
When KFRC flipped to Magic 61, James Gabbert (who appreciated their heritage) offered to buy the call letters from RKO for his fledgling TV station. RKO turned him down, but if we had spent a decade or more watching his "KFRC TV20," they would have a different meaning altogether.
I think you're giving call letters too much importance, Michael. If/when 90s "Classic Hits" or whatever you want to call them - become popular on the radio, there's no reason the station can't still be called KFRC. To use another example: the KMEL call letters started in the late 70s as an AOR station. Then the station flipped to "All Hits," then morphed into Rap and Hip/Hop; yet the call letters have remained. The "brand" has had different meanings in different decades, and nobody in the station's current core audience knows or cares that it used to be an AOR station with a Camel for a logo.
When KFRC flipped to Magic 61, James Gabbert (who appreciated their heritage) offered to buy the call letters from RKO for his fledgling TV station. RKO turned him down, but if we had spent a decade or more watching his "KFRC TV20," they would have a different meaning altogether.
Imagine being a jock at KFRC right now.... how frustrating would that be??
"...and you chose Rod Stewart 'Some Guys Have All The Luck' on KFRC!" As much as I'm completely unimpressed, uninspired and borderline disgusted, I don't have to try and SELL that *explitive deleted*
We've all got so much time to bitch about this...maybe we should hit the studio and roll tape on our idea of the perfect KFRC sample hour. Only problem is, I'd have a tough time consolidating it into ONE hour!!
Dr. Don, can you hear our prayers? It seems our only hope is some sort of divine intervention.
"...and you chose Rod Stewart 'Some Guys Have All The Luck' on KFRC!" As much as I'm completely unimpressed, uninspired and borderline disgusted, I don't have to try and SELL that *explitive deleted*
We've all got so much time to bitch about this...maybe we should hit the studio and roll tape on our idea of the perfect KFRC sample hour. Only problem is, I'd have a tough time consolidating it into ONE hour!!
Dr. Don, can you hear our prayers? It seems our only hope is some sort of divine intervention.
Lkeller said:
Llew: You've actually made my point. KMEL moved on to new things with those old calls...it hasn't tried to re-invent 70s album rock today as a retro format targeting people too young to have vivid memories of the connection.
The KFRC calls actually cause two problems for the current classic rock station...they can't live up to the expectations of those of us who heard the original...and they have no value for the actual target listener. The call letters at best don't help, and at worst, they hurt.
---Michael Hagerty
Call letters are nostalgic but for most, they don't really mean much!
It has been and always will be about the content...great presentation is the "frosting on the cake" in radio and the ratings game.
Content (in this case, musically) is number one in the equation and that's what makes the calls come alive and mean something to people.
If you took KFRC's playlist and put it on KRTH right now, you'd see KRTH'S numbers drop like a rock. Even though KRTH sounds slick and has great presentation, if they play crap, people will push the buttons.
It has been and always will be about the content...great presentation is the "frosting on the cake" in radio and the ratings game.
Content (in this case, musically) is number one in the equation and that's what makes the calls come alive and mean something to people.
If you took KFRC's playlist and put it on KRTH right now, you'd see KRTH'S numbers drop like a rock. Even though KRTH sounds slick and has great presentation, if they play crap, people will push the buttons.
F
Fastphilly
Guest
I have found the perfect combination of music to get KFRC back on top!!!
Only play the songs from these artists only:
Beatles
Supremes
Eagles
Doobie Brothers
Van Morrison
Elton John
Huey Lewis
Rod Stewart
Bruce Springsteen
Journey
with a touch of Motown various artists and It will be a kick-a$$ classic Hits station in no time... ;D
NOT!!!
Only play the songs from these artists only:
Beatles
Supremes
Eagles
Doobie Brothers
Van Morrison
Elton John
Huey Lewis
Rod Stewart
Bruce Springsteen
Journey
with a touch of Motown various artists and It will be a kick-a$$ classic Hits station in no time... ;D
NOT!!!
F
Fastphilly
Guest
On a serious tip though.....
I'm sure that most ppl on this forum have worked in radio some time or another so I know my knowledge compared to most in here on what it takes to make a great station takes a back seat......I am just a radio geek with a LARGE record collection....But if I was in charge of getting things turned around I would think interaction with the listeners is key...along with the music being played......
For the folks in here, what would you think about this:
On the 5PM drive home, Monday through Friday, have a "Battle of the Classic Hits" by playing one "battle" per day
Play two songs that were released within a year or two apart that are not currently on the normal rotaion playlists....Example,
1979- Shine a Little LOve by ELO vs. Gold by John Stewart
1973- Shambala by Three Dog Night vs. Smoke on the Water by Deep Purple
1971- Scorpio by Dennis Coffey vs. I Gotcha by Joe Tex
At the conclusion, tell the listeners to call in and vote on which one they prefer (call it "fly or fry","Make it or Break it") ,make an incentive for ppl to call in and vote (every 20th caller will recieve a $25 voucher for Amazon, or a $50 gift card for Black Angus....Depending on the budget that CBS allots for the station)......
You kill two birds with one stone, not only are you going through the classic hits with a fine tooth comb to add to the playlist, YOU ARE GETTING THE LOST SONGS ON THE AIR!!!
Plus there is some added incentive of hearing a forgotten tune and possibly getting a free dinner on KFRC's tab by voting.....
Also, at 8PM play back the top 5 songs that were popular on KFRC on this date in such a such a year........
All I am asking for is some variety.... :'(
I'm sure that most ppl on this forum have worked in radio some time or another so I know my knowledge compared to most in here on what it takes to make a great station takes a back seat......I am just a radio geek with a LARGE record collection....But if I was in charge of getting things turned around I would think interaction with the listeners is key...along with the music being played......
For the folks in here, what would you think about this:
On the 5PM drive home, Monday through Friday, have a "Battle of the Classic Hits" by playing one "battle" per day
Play two songs that were released within a year or two apart that are not currently on the normal rotaion playlists....Example,
1979- Shine a Little LOve by ELO vs. Gold by John Stewart
1973- Shambala by Three Dog Night vs. Smoke on the Water by Deep Purple
1971- Scorpio by Dennis Coffey vs. I Gotcha by Joe Tex
At the conclusion, tell the listeners to call in and vote on which one they prefer (call it "fly or fry","Make it or Break it") ,make an incentive for ppl to call in and vote (every 20th caller will recieve a $25 voucher for Amazon, or a $50 gift card for Black Angus....Depending on the budget that CBS allots for the station)......
You kill two birds with one stone, not only are you going through the classic hits with a fine tooth comb to add to the playlist, YOU ARE GETTING THE LOST SONGS ON THE AIR!!!
Plus there is some added incentive of hearing a forgotten tune and possibly getting a free dinner on KFRC's tab by voting.....
Also, at 8PM play back the top 5 songs that were popular on KFRC on this date in such a such a year........
All I am asking for is some variety.... :'(
Most people say they want variety, but when you actually play a huge playlist, the ratings drop like a bomb. One well-known research company used to make all their AC stations run a liner with variety in it "the variety station," "a better variety of your favorite songs," etc. Of course, they only had the stations play around 300 songs at a time! (Never said a BIGGER variety.)
Generalizing (never good to do, but..), men seem to like variety, women familiarity when it comes to music radio.
Have taken a station with a playlist of 3000 songs, and cut it to 500 and doubled the ratings in less than 6 months more than once, so from my point of view, a larger variety isn't necessarily a good way to get the most listeners.
Generalizing (never good to do, but..), men seem to like variety, women familiarity when it comes to music radio.
Have taken a station with a playlist of 3000 songs, and cut it to 500 and doubled the ratings in less than 6 months more than once, so from my point of view, a larger variety isn't necessarily a good way to get the most listeners.
Actually SFStatic....In the past what you say has been true, especially in Hit Radio or even Classic Rock.
But radio listeners have become way more sophisticated, baby boomers have grown up and even kids like a lot of this music. Oldies/Classic Hits strikes a cord if the right variety of music is played...and to top it off, it's very family/office friendly radio....It's working very well when it's done right.
So, in the Oldies/Classic Hits format, the opposite of your assertion is occurring.
Some specific examples across the country:
KONO/San Antonio....Sounds great and has a wide and varied playlist. Pulling a 5.9 in that market. (Can look at great playlist on their site)
KOLA/Riverside...As soon as they added the 70's and lite 80's, ratings popped.
KRTH/LA....Greatly expanded their playlist with 70's and lite 80' and the ratings show
WCBS/NY...Same as KRTH & KOLA
KOOL/PHX..With their expanded playlist, consistently at or near the top ratings wise in the desert.
To top it off, those stations core listeners are women. An advertisers dream!
For some puzzling reason(s), KFRC just refuses to adjust...and their owner (CBS) has very successful product in WCBS , KOOL & KRTH!
Go figure on this one??
But radio listeners have become way more sophisticated, baby boomers have grown up and even kids like a lot of this music. Oldies/Classic Hits strikes a cord if the right variety of music is played...and to top it off, it's very family/office friendly radio....It's working very well when it's done right.
So, in the Oldies/Classic Hits format, the opposite of your assertion is occurring.
Some specific examples across the country:
KONO/San Antonio....Sounds great and has a wide and varied playlist. Pulling a 5.9 in that market. (Can look at great playlist on their site)
KOLA/Riverside...As soon as they added the 70's and lite 80's, ratings popped.
KRTH/LA....Greatly expanded their playlist with 70's and lite 80' and the ratings show
WCBS/NY...Same as KRTH & KOLA
KOOL/PHX..With their expanded playlist, consistently at or near the top ratings wise in the desert.
To top it off, those stations core listeners are women. An advertisers dream!
For some puzzling reason(s), KFRC just refuses to adjust...and their owner (CBS) has very successful product in WCBS , KOOL & KRTH!
Go figure on this one??
It is about listener usage.
Keep in mind most "average" folk listen to the radio between 15 minutes to 3 hours...depending on their activity, commute, etc...
If you can listen at work then that goes way up, but still only 6-8 hours, and it is passive at best for most music formats.
Those listening longer..."Super Cumer's" are NOT the average listener, and do not use radio the way 90% of everyone else.
So we need to bear that in mind when talking about variety or music and playlists.
At the same token, the magic of making a station sound like it is playing a ton of music, is in the way it is scheduled and layed out. I have known many a meticulous MD's (me being one for 10+ years) and it is an art form to make a station sound fresh while only playing 300-600 songs depending on format.
Also, I have witnessed many a lazy MD's and PD's who just let Selector or whatever music software they are using rip and go without massaging the music and paying close attention to rotations and dayparts for the music.
Either way it is two different things being discussed, but they share a common theme, and that is paying attention, and giving a damn about your listener, giving them consistency, but throwing a surprise (though a well planned researched one) at them to keep up their interest, and keep them listening and coming back.
Keep in mind most "average" folk listen to the radio between 15 minutes to 3 hours...depending on their activity, commute, etc...
If you can listen at work then that goes way up, but still only 6-8 hours, and it is passive at best for most music formats.
Those listening longer..."Super Cumer's" are NOT the average listener, and do not use radio the way 90% of everyone else.
So we need to bear that in mind when talking about variety or music and playlists.
At the same token, the magic of making a station sound like it is playing a ton of music, is in the way it is scheduled and layed out. I have known many a meticulous MD's (me being one for 10+ years) and it is an art form to make a station sound fresh while only playing 300-600 songs depending on format.
Also, I have witnessed many a lazy MD's and PD's who just let Selector or whatever music software they are using rip and go without massaging the music and paying close attention to rotations and dayparts for the music.
Either way it is two different things being discussed, but they share a common theme, and that is paying attention, and giving a damn about your listener, giving them consistency, but throwing a surprise (though a well planned researched one) at them to keep up their interest, and keep them listening and coming back.
BnRinBayArea said:
Dear Bin,
I guess you missed all the "Spirit of KFRC" nonsense.
I do know that if Dr. Don is listening to this on the big cosmic AM/FM radio...he's gotta be saying to the Real Don Steele..."Let's get an I-Pod."
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