KFRC

[calguy]

Does anyone remember the format of krth in the 80's? they played everything. and there was nothing Jay Coffey could do about it.

For most of the 80's Jay Coffey was working at KIQQ. KRTH in the 80's was sort of a quasi gold based ac/top 40 mix. They were really still classified as oldies as I remember, but my memory may be fuzzy. I feel that they should've moved the KHJ airstaff and calls over to 101.1 back when KHJ went country. It would've been a great way to save a legend, and by now they would probably be oldies anyway.

 

[LKellerIII]

"I feel that they should've moved the KHJ airstaff and calls over to 101.1 back when KHJ went country. It would've been a great way to save a legend, and by now they would probably be oldies anyway."

As a former babyboomer who grew up in LA, I bow to the legend that was Boss Radio KHJ. However, I can't help looking at it from a historical perspective:

KRTH 101.1 was actually KHJ-FM until 1972 (or possibly 73) when they changed the call letters - reportedly because they were going to put in an Album Rock format. However, they changed their minds at the last minute - there were a number of popular AOR stations on the FM dial in LA at that time (KMET, KLOS, etc.), but no FM Oldies station. They were smart, and kept the "K-Earth" branding, despite the fact that it sounding kind of hippie-ish..you know, earth day, whole earth, the environment, etc.

This change happened about 7 years before KHJ went country. By the time KHJ flipped, K-Earth was an established brand.

KRTH has been an established (and generally popular station) with the same basic format for 35 years. The Top 40 KHJ format ran from 1965 to 1980; only 15 years.

The owners - RKO General - did not appreciate the developing value of FM in those days. At least they didn't sell 101.1. In San Francisco in the mid 70s, RKO sold off KFRC-FM (106.1), believing FM was never going to gain wide acceptance, despite ample evidence to the contrary. When 610/KFRC tanked in the 80s due to the popularity of music on FM, they had no place to move the format, and 106.1/KMEL was among the competitors that finished them off.

 

[skyrocker]

...The owners (of KHJ) - RKO General - did not appreciate the developing value of
FM in those days. At least they didn't sell (KRTH) 101.1. In San Francisco in the mid 70s,
RKO sold off KFRC-FM (106.1...

Fast forward to history repeating itself just last year: The owners, unable to appreciate the
value of AM these days - sold off KFRC 610AM. Without that solid foundational signal,
big numbers will be very hard to come by.

 

[DavidKaye]

Fast forward to history repeating itself just last year: The owners, unable to appreciate the
value of AM these days - sold off KFRC 610AM. Without that solid foundational signal,
big numbers will be very hard to come by.

When KFRC sold off the AM signal, the ratings did not change significantly. KFRC AM and FM had been rated together. I think they were off about .3, which is probably within the rounding error.

 

[oldies76]

cahokia Does anyone remember the format of krth in the 80's? they played everything. and there was nothing Jay Coffey could do about it.

K-Earth 101 in the early to mid 80's was one of a kind!! A good way of comparing KRTH then, is what WCBS is now.
KRTH played almost everything in the Top 10 or lower from the mid 50's thru the early 80's. They had a HUGE playlist then with incredible themed weekends and some nightly themes, as well as legendary jocks.

I mean, KRTH even played every Number One Song off the old KHJ charts in chrono-order, by week (1955 thru 1984) over Labor Day weekends. It was fascinating!! The weekend before that, they'd play the #2's.

KRTH's playlist went into a tailspin after about 1989, about when Coffey took over there as PD (mid 90's). It has improved lately since Jhani Kaye took over in '05, but sounds far short of what WCBS plays now. I guess demos has something to do with that.

(check out the long thread on "KRTH songs should be heard" under the L.A. market posts)

 

[LKellerIII]

"I mean, KRTH even played every Number One Song off the old KHJ charts in chrono-order, by week (1955 thru 1984) over Labor Day weekends."

I assume you mean 1965, when the Boss Radio format first came to KHJ.

"KRTH's playlist went into a tailspin after about 1989, about when Coffey took over there as PD (mid 90's). It has improved lately since Jhani Kaye took over in '05, but sounds far short of what WCBS plays now. I guess demos has something to do with that."

Your history is off, and a little over-simplified. K-Earth became much more popular when Mike Phillips took over as PD(not sure of the year - that might be the 1989 change you speak of, and tightened the playlist to 300 songs. Whenever the advocates of tiny playlists would make their case, they would point to the Phillips KRTH as proof that mind-numbing repetition does work. Coffey took over when Phillips retired (2001 or 2002, I think). Though Coffey made a lot of noise about change, he basically continued with the same restrictive format, which was already on the decline, in terms of ratings.

The Jhani Kaye KRTH does sound much better, but is somewhere in the middle in terms of the playlist. It's certainly not the loose KRTH of the 80s, but there is much more variety than in the Phillips/Coffey era.

 

[oldies76]

LKeller I assume you mean 1965, when the Boss Radio format first came to KHJ.

Sorry, you're correct 1965. KRTH used other charts before that to compile the #1's. (not sure if it was KRLA or others?)
But they did begin at July 1955 with "Rock Around the Clock". After 1980, when KHJ went country, KRTH used other surveys to compile thru 1984 or '85. It might have been their own surveys, but can't tell you for sure.

LKeller Your history is off, and a little over-simplified. K-Earth became much more popular when Mike Phillips took over as PD(not sure of the year - that might be the 1989 change you speak of, and tightened the playlist to 300 songs. Whenever the advocates of tiny playlists would make their case, they would point to the Phillips KRTH as proof that mind-numbing repetition does work. Coffey took over when Phillips retired (2001 or 2002, I think). Though Coffey made a lot of noise about change, he basically continued with the same restrictive format, which was already on the decline, in terms of ratings.

The Jhani Kaye KRTH does sound much better, but is somewhere in the middle in terms of the playlist. It's certainly not the loose KRTH of the 80s, but there is much more variety than in the Phillips/Coffey era.

Just going by some memory, since I no longer live in Socal. I was there from 1978 thru 2005 and tuned to KRTH mainly after 1983 and discovered all the themed weekends, like the #1's and A-Z weekends, Firecracker 500, 70's..etc..

I used to listen annually to the #1's weekend (it was a blast!!) and suddenly in 1989 (Labor Day Weekend) KRTH didn't air it. I was not a happy camper then! I figured out that a new PD (Phillips) had taken over and destroyed the wonderful playlist they had. And you're right, it's been restrictive until Coffey left and Jhani Kaye took over in '05. KRTH does sound much better, than in years past for sure, but still lacks the variety that WCBS offers currently.


Bob Hamilton sure knew how to please listeners then. It was a great time in radio.

 

[cahokia]

Is there any chance of Bobby Ocean coming back to KFRC?

 

[LKellerIII]

"Is there any chance of Bobby Ocean coming back to KFRC?"

That was asked by a number of people when Classic Hits KFRC came to 106.9. Somebody who was supposedly 'in the know' responded that CBS met with Bobby to discuss his return, and he apparently trashed CBS and said he'd rather have a root canal...not necessarily in those words...but that was the gist. It was also said that he compared CBS management unfavorably to his current employers (Bonneville, at that time, now Entercom). Remember, CBS fired him from KFRC in a cost cutting move in 2004 because they felt he was making too much money.

I think he's probably happy doing VO work at home, and coming into town from time to time to fill in at KOIT.

 

[skyrocker]

Thursday evening says Friday afternoon on KOIT is one of those ;D happy days.

 

[calguy]

"I feel that they should've moved the KHJ airstaff and calls over to 101.1 back when KHJ went country. It would've been a great way to save a legend, and by now they would probably be oldies anyway."

As a former babyboomer who grew up in LA, I bow to the legend that was Boss Radio KHJ. However, I can't help looking at it from a historical perspective:

KRTH 101.1 was actually KHJ-FM until 1972 (or possibly 73) when they changed the call letters - reportedly because they were going to put in an Album Rock format. However, they changed their minds at the last minute - there were a number of popular AOR stations on the FM dial in LA at that time (KMET, KLOS, etc.), but no FM Oldies station. They were smart, and kept the "K-Earth" branding, despite the fact that it sounding kind of hippie-ish..you know, earth day, whole earth, the environment, etc.

This change happened about 7 years before KHJ went country. By the time KHJ flipped, K-Earth was an established brand.

KRTH has been an established (and generally popular station) with the same basic format for 35 years. The Top 40 KHJ format ran from 1965 to 1980; only 15 years.

The owners - RKO General - did not appreciate the developing value of FM in those days. At least they didn't sell 101.1. In San Francisco in the mid 70s, RKO sold off KFRC-FM (106.1), believing FM was never going to gain wide acceptance, despite ample evidence to the contrary. When 610/KFRC tanked in the 80s due to the popularity of music on FM, they had no place to move the format, and 106.1/KMEL was among the competitors that finished them off.

I know the history of all 4 of these stations. I believe KFRC-FM was sold because RKO was supposed to buy a Denver station and from what I understand Harry Nelson left WRKO to be its PD. But the Government nixed the sale and RKO had already given up KFRC-FM by that time. They were losing their licenses and the fed's weren't about to let them buy any new stations.

Yes, KRTH was a known brand at the time, but it was for the most part an automated station and while the timing wouldn't have been perfect, it would've been a good move as the KHJ brand was for a time a pretty powerful one. But hey, it's only an opinion. Knowing the way history played out makes me wish they had done it. The same for KFRC. Moving to FM before the brand became oldies may have preserved a current based format for the KFRC call-letters.

 

[skyrocker]

The owners - RKO General - did not appreciate the developing value of FM in those days.

Alas, it's as you say - much like today's owners are confused about everything from their own properties to the nearly limitless possibilities of the net. There's no way to audience-test development; that's uncharted domain.

To appreciate a thing, it always seemed these guys required solid, researched, documented proof --and found those who would be willing to provide it even though the future's obscurity can never provide that sort of thing.

So, then and now, perhaps to make numbers happen and pacify stockholders for that quarter, they sold off genuine treasures, eliminating their chances of that huge revenue, they waited until the medium had already been pioneered to add a web site, they refused to appreciate the promotional value of streaming their audio.

Like Zelig, I was around. I protested the change of call letters at KHJ-FM and I was outspokenly against KFRC's selling their FM, which became KMEL. As if anyone behind those desks ever listened to a mere performer while, after all, THEY were the businessmen.

Yet, who's to say we wouldn't have done the same thing? I love working at a radio facility but shudder at the responsibilities inherent in owning one.

 

[davideduardo]

...The owners (of KHJ) - RKO General - did not appreciate the developing value of
FM in those days. At least they didn't sell (KRTH) 101.1. In San Francisco in the mid 70s,
RKO sold off KFRC-FM (106.1...

Fast forward to history repeating itself just last year: The owners, unable to appreciate the
value of AM these days - sold off KFRC 610AM. Without that solid foundational signal,
big numbers will be very hard to come by.

If I recall correctly, they had to sell a signal to comply with changed overlap rules and market maximums when Viacom and CBS became separate entities, which counted as a transfer to the FCC.

 

[LKellerIII]

"Alas, it's as you say - much like today's owners are confused about everything from their own properties to the nearly limitless possibilities of the net. There's no way to audience-test development; that's uncharted domain."

Granted my perspective is only from outside the business - but it seems like station owners have always included the clueless. People bitch about huge corporate radio these days...with good reason, of course. But I remember radio professionals I have known complaining back in the 70s about the clueless owners they have worked for - who have no appreciation for radio...just the bottom line.

Even with the old ownership limits, it seems like many or most stations in major markets were owned by big corporations with other agendas. Even then, the independent owners like James Gabbert and Pat Henry were not typical.

If I remember correctly, RKO General's main business by the 60s was the General Tire, not radio and TV. The broadcast properties were just part of their portfolio, so concern for radio was hardly the only thing driving their business decisions.

Even in the early days of radio, many pioneering broadcasters were people who were attracted to radio for its potential to advertise the products that they really made their money on - like Don Lee (original owner of KFRC and KHJ), who sold Cadillacs. Earle C. Anthony (in LA) was another station owner car dealer (KFI and others), though he was one who grew to love the broadcasting business, and put some love and care into his stations.

It seems like the best pre-deregulation owners were people like Gene Autry, who had a background in show business. Whatever his personal failings, he loved TV and radio, and was willing to spend money to do it right.

 

[1069_KIFR]

CBS had to sell a property in SF. Because they were buying the Sacramento CBS KOVR TV Station. With that purchase, they had too many overlapping stations. KFRC 610, was the only property they vould unload while making the FCC happy. Thus 610 was sold/traded for 106.9FM.

 

[DavidKaye]

Alas, it's as you say - much like today's owners are confused about everything from their own properties to the nearly limitless possibilities of the net. There's no way to audience-test development; that's uncharted domain.

This is the main difference between entrepreneur ownership and corporate ownership. The entrepreneur has only their own small group of investors to please, and often there is one main investor, often the manager. Corporate ownership means pleasing stockholders every three months, people you've never met and couldn't care less about you or your mission. And if they don't get the return they want, they simply dump the stock. That's a lot pressure to put on station management.