Re: The province of Dubuque
You make some good points, however I just don't buy a lot of it. They are great historical reasons why something might or might not have worked in the past, but that's not the type of thinking that moves people, businesses, or markets forward. I understand a lot of people would have much to lose, either directly or indirectly if there were a hypothetical shake-up in this TV market, so their initial reaction might be to save their own hyde, and that's fine.
FYI, the "online?" comment is a pretty emotional and useless response. Do you feel your arguments aren't carrying enough weight on their own, so you feel the need to make baseless and silly charges in an attempt to undermind what I'm saying? I know full well the way a capital investment works, and I addressed why it would be important to do so initially, and why it would pay-off.
They said there wasn't enough "money" or "initiative" in Dubuque to make many of the city-saving upgrades that have happened there in the past 10 years. The people who said that are now sitting on the sideline, missing out on the newly generated revenue, while the people who didn't listen to such backward, defeatest, 'save my butt becasue I have much to lose if people take a chance' thinking have made some formerly 'impossible' strides.
Dubuque is shrinking??!?? This makes me think you're about half as familiar with the marketplace as you pretend, so maybe this whole discussion is happening without all parties possessing the neccesary information. In that case, we should probably just move on.
Thanks for the lively discussion...that doesn't happen nearly often enough on this board. Hopefully we'll see which of our respective points stands up in the actual marketplace.
> > First of all, if everybody listented when they were told
> to
> > 'wake up,' nothing would be ever invented, no chances
> taken,
> > and no rewards reached.
> >
> > Secondly, how do you pay for those sorts of upgrades? It's
>
> > called "Capital Investment." You invest wisely from the
> > start and do things the right way from minute one, and
> don't
> > do things half-way like KDUB was.
>
> Where is your business degree from? Get it online? The
> capital investment has to be paid off, and what I and others
> have tried to tell you is that there is not enough money or
> initiative in Dubuque to get it done.
>
> > Why would anyone in Waterloo tune into the "Dubuque"
> > station?
>
> If there were an obvious lack of network representation, it
> might work, but believe me when I say no one is going to buy
> KGAN and place it in Dubuque. The difference in KWWL being a
> power is their long-standing affiliation with NBC and their
> concentration on the counties above Highway 20. They beat
> Dubuque to the punch many years ago.
>
> >Why would anyone in Dubuque tune into the "Waterloo"
> station?
> >I believe you said yourself that one of the major downfalls
> of KDUB/KFXB was >that so many in Dubuque were watching KWWL
>
>
> Because they didn't have a quality alternative. Why is that
> so hard to understand? From the other perspective, why would
> Waterloo viewers watch a Dubuque station when they have a
> station that already caters their area?
>
> >(and Dubuque is the key to why KWWL wins the ratings on a
> consistent basis).
>
> Not true. The Neilsen county-by-county ratings show KWWL and
> KCRG in a battle for Dubuque and they have been for a long
> time.
>
> >You can't have it both
> > ways, so which is it? Do people not watch stations from
> > outside their town, or do they? If KWWL's Dubuque
> viewership
> > was part of what drove KDUB down, then people WILL in fact
>
> > watch an out-of-town station.
>
> The primary reasons for KDUB not succeeding were 1) the
> presence of another ABC affilate in the market in the early
> days and 2) the lack of interest in television from the
> advertising community in Dubuque.
>
> There was a glimmer of hope when KFXB became a Fox
> affiliate, giving Dubuque a shot at being the home to a
> major network affiliate, but predictably the owners moved
> the operation to Cedar Rapids and shut down the news bureau
> in Dubuque because NO ONE CARED.
>
> >If it was not, then a quality station in Dubuque would have
> just as much opportunity for success that KWWL does.
> > Why? Becasue as we've seen documented here, there are more
>
> > people and more money in Dubuque then there is in
> Waterloo.
> > If KWWL can thrive on less homes and less money in their
> > city, why couldn't a station in Dubuque?
>
> Dubuque is losing population just like Waterloo, but it
> takes more than sheer numbers of people to make a station
> viable.
>
> > Again, Dubuque business' may have a "thrifty" image.
> That's
> > awful thinking, and a prime reason why people who should
> be
> > making plenty of money in the media in that town aren't.
> > Waterloo had the same image, and that's not the case any
> > longer. They also said larger 'chain' stores would never
> > make money in Dubuque, becasue the city was 'cheap' and
> > 'provincial' and blah blah blah. Take a look at what's
> > sprung up in Dubuque in the past 10 years and get back to
> > me.
>
> Dubuque should have been on the ball forty years ago when it
> really meant something. The past ten years have been nice
> for the tourists, but again I say, tourists don't watch TV.
>
>
>
> > > Steve--seriously--you need to wake up here. KDUB/KFXB
> was
> > > sub-standard because there was no money there to support
>
> > it.
> > > The question remains, where are you going to get the
> money
> >
> > > for all the improvements you'd need to make. Plus, as
> > > parochial as this divided TV market is, why would anyone
>
> > in
> > > Waterloo tune in to the "Dubuque" TV station? They seem
> to
> >
> > > have a pretty good one in Waterloo right now, but NOT
> > > according to viewers in Cedar Rapids who overwhelmingly
> > > choose KCRG, which overindexes the national ABC numbers
> > > because of it's bonzo news numbers in the CR/IC
> corridor.
> > >
> > > And by the way, you can look at market population for
> > radio,
> > > but don't forget that Iowa City is not part of the CR
> > survey
> > > area as it should be. If it were, CR would be market
> 151.
> > > The difference in populaion is more like 150,000 which
> > from
> > > an advertising standpoint is enormous. The total dollars
>
> > > spent in the CR radio market dwarf the money spent in
> > > Dubuque or Waterloo. Period.
> > >
> > > Let's not say Dubuque is cheap. Just "thrifty".
> > >
> > >
> > > > Remember what was being sold...a pretty sub-par
> station,
> >
> > > > especially when compared to the rest of the market.
> When
> >
> > > the
> > > > video quality is bad, the talent poor and the station
> is
> > a
> > >
> > > > running joke in town, of course they aren't going to
> be
> > > able
> > > > to sell ads, even at low prices.
> > > >
> > > > Same goes for Dubuque radio. The stations both benefit
>
> > and
> > >
> > > > are hurt by that bowl they sit in...ie, no outside
> > > > competition. Again, if the quality exists, people will
>
> > pay
> > >
> > > > for it.
> > > >
> > > > The "cheap" argument is weak at BEST, I don't care how
>
> > > > 'in-the-trenches' somebody is. Just a few years ago,
> the
> >
> > > > same argument was made about Waterloo-Cedar Falls,
> when
> > > > everybody was charing 8, 10, 12 and 20 dollars a spot.
>
> > All
> > >
> > > > the 'in-the-trenches' people said nobody in those
> cities
> >
> > > > would pay more then that, that they were 'cheap' and
> > > > whatnot. Then some people fixed some things, did the
> > hard
> > > > work, used their heads and I can tell you that they're
>
> > > > getting several times those previous rates today.
> > > >
> > > > It can work in Dubuque as well, but nobody has made a
> > > > commitment, in radio or in TV, to make it happen at
> this
> >
> > > > point.
> > > >
> > > > > > This sounds to me like typical eastern Iowa,
> > "Dubuque
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2nd class city" thinking
> > > > >
> > > > > Dubuque isn't a second class city, it's a cheap
> city.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wall Cloud's right: nobody was buying TV there, even
>
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > bargain basement rates that 40 was selling their
> news
> > > for,
> > > >
> > > > > and radio is significantly undervalued compared to
> > > cities
> > > > > its' size. That's not "typical eastern Iowa
> > thinking,"
> > > > > that's been-in-the-trenches Dubuque experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > Should Dubuque have its' own TV station?
> Absolutely.
> >
> > > > Would
> > > > > Dubuque support it to the extent it could provide
> the
> > > > > services discussed in this thread? Not a chance.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
