KGAN AND DUBUQUE

[SteveGoodman]

Re: Please don't come to a discussion unarmed

And the "facts" you come with are 1980??? Hell, what about 1880, I bet the population has really changed since then.

From the US Census Bureau, some 'facts' for you. It might be worth reminding all that Dubuque has, since your 1980 numbers, transformed from a very blue-collar, farm industry based community into a more white collar, technology, tourism and service orientated community, but we can leave that for later.


Dubuque County----
Dubuque County 2003 Population: 90,049 (an increase over 2000)
Population growth, 1990-2000: 3.2%
Percent Below Poverty (since it's so poor): 7.8% (State of Iowa: 9.1%)
Retail Sales per capita:

Black Hawk County----
Black Hawk Country Population Growth, 2000-2003: -1.2%
Percent Below Poverty: 13.1%

City of Dubuque----
Population: 57,866
Growth, 1990-2000: -0.1 (mostly due to people moving to Asbury, Key West, Peosta, etc.)
Retail sales per capita: 12,802
Median Household Income: 36,785
Percent Below Poverty: 9.5%

City of Waterloo---
Population: 68,747
Growth: 1990-2000: 3.0%
Retail Sales per capita: 12,623
Median Household Income: 34,092
Percent Below Poverty: 13.7%

Apparently Dubuque compares quite favorably to the home of KWWL, Waterloo, and is in fact growing and does have money to be spent. You don't have 'shrinkage' to bloster your arguments anymore, so what's next?

As I stated before, there were plenty of current (and especially former) Dubuquer's who said that this, that and the other thing would 'never' happen there becasue the city was too small, too cheap, to old, too stuck in it's ways, to this that or the other thing. While you're there, take a look around. See the new Main Street, check out the new Riverfront. Go see the Smithsonian Museum (the only one of it's kind sponosored by the National Museum). Drive down the Arterial and see all the new business' opening, and the new hotels going up. SOMEBODY is cashing in on the erronious, but long held myth that Dubuque is all the things you say it is. They're cashing big checks becasue they're focusing on the current reasons why these things will work, rather then dwelling on now-past reasons why not.

Now that the 'facts' you provided have been updated, let's make one thing clear to all...numbers never tell the whole story. If they did, well we wouldn't need any people to make decisions. Dubuque, and it's recent rebirth, is a great example.



> > Dubuque is shrinking??!?? This makes me think you're about
>
> > half as familiar with the marketplace as you pretend, so
> > maybe this whole discussion is happening without all
> parties
> > possessing the neccesary information. In that case, we
> > should probably just move on.
>
> Well, as I type this while visiting my parent's home in
> Dubuque (where I have appar

ently ignored the marketplace)
> here are some cold hard facts (and I notice, I am the only
> one providing any) about shrinkage.
>
> ---------------------1980 Census---------- 2000 Census
> Dubuque County--------93,745----------------89,143
> Dubuque city-----------62,321----------------57,204
>
> Grant County WI-------51,736----------------49,597
>
> JoDaviess County IL---23,520----------------22,285
>
> I'm done.
>

 

[dsmtv]

My Two Cents

First of all, this has brought out a great discussion, great to see. Here's my input based on what's been said the past few days:

Theoretically, Dubuque COULD have a TV station.The likelyhood of that happening anytime soon is slim. First of all, TV owners are just beginning to make money again after suffering heavily after 9/11. Remember, the success of a TV station in Dubuque would depend on the quality of product. The average figure needed to start up a NEWS operation is $1 million. That's just for the news department. If you're setting up an entire station you also have the cost for a building, equipment, etc. Look at a multi-million dollar investment. That right there is something that FEW owners are willing to do, especially in a mid-size market. Additionally, an owner would most likely look at the past efforts of local news in Dubuque and see that they all have failed. Yes, that's because it was a low-budget operation, but again revenue was the source of most of that. It would definately take a lot of time and money invested in order to make it a success, and again, few if any major TV groups would be willing to do that, and a smaller company would not have the ability to do it. Also, with HDTV coming right around the corner, an owner would need to purchase all of that equipment, including HDTV cameras and equipment for the news operations. Currently less than a dozen LOCAL tv stations are broadcasting all local programs in HDTV-mostly because of the cost. However, this is something that all will have to do. If you were to start out now, it would make more sense just to invest in HDTV now instead of having to do it 2-3 years down the road. Few would be likely to do that.

Now the original post was assuming that we move KGAN to Dubuque. They wouldn't have to purchase tons of new equipment, they could just move the old. Would you want to hire new talent, or use what you currently have? If you want to use the current talent, you must convince them all to move to Dubuque and they would expect you to help with moving expenses.

So let's say you open KGAN in Dubuque does that mean everyone in Dubuque will magically turn their TV's to KGAN? Probably not- some will feel they are served enough already by KCRG and KWWL. They would not switch immediately, especially with the past history of TV in Dubuque. There probably would be more people in CR turning off KGAN than those in Dubuque tuning in. Those tuning out would then help make KCRG the clear leader in the market-it's just a simple fact. CR and IC have more people watching than Dubuque or Waterloo.

Bottom line, history DOES play a major role in TV. That's why people tune into stations, because of their history. Yes, things can change. Look at how KGAN once was and what it is today. KWWL has a strong history in the Waterloo area. It's consistent in that part of the market and that's the reason a place like Waterloo can sustain a TV station. If the tables were turned I'd feel the same way. Let's say Dubuque has had a strong TV station there for 50 years, and let's say Waterloo did not have a TV station. If someone were to pose this question that way, I would say then that Waterloo could not make a TV station a success because they don't have a strong history to support them.

In theory a TV station in Dubuque COULD work. In reality it's unlikely to happen. Just too many factors at this time working against it. Perhaps if Dubuque continues to grow and develop into the city people say it is, then it might work in the future. But an unstable economy right now makes it doubtful that anything like this would happen in the market.

 

[SteveGoodman]

Re: My Two Cents

Dsm, very well stated, and pretty much what I'm trying to get across.

I'm not saying a TV station WILL be placed in Dubuque, or that one SHOULD be placed in Dubuque, but rather that one COULD.

There are other factors that play against it. There are no network affiliations to be had at this point, for one. A relocation would be easier then a start-up, but isn't very easy to pull off.

I think it's possible Dubuque will have a TV outlet again one day, and I think if done correctly it will have every opportunity to be both competitive and successful. The point is that it's concevable, and that's what I've been trying to say.


> First of all, this has brought out a great discussion, great
> to see. Here's my input based on what's been said the past
> few days:
>
> Theoretically, Dubuque COULD have a TV station.The
> likelyhood of that happening anytime soon is slim. First of
> all, TV owners are just beginning to make money again after
> suffering heavily after 9/11. Remember, the success of a TV
> station in Dubuque would depend on the quality of product.
> The average figure needed to start up a NEWS operation is $1
> million. That's just for the news department. If you're
> setting up an entire station you also have the cost for a
> building, equipment, etc. Look at a multi-million dollar
> investment. That right there is something that FEW owners
> are willing to do, especially in a mid-size market.
> Additionally, an owner would most likely look at the past
> efforts of local news in Dubuque and see that they all have
> failed. Yes, that's because it was a low-budget operation,
> but again revenue was the source of most of that. It would
> definately take a lot of time and money invested in order to
> make it a success, and again, few if any major TV groups
> would be willing to do that, and a smaller company would not
> have the ability to do it. Also, with HDTV coming right
> around the corner, an owner would need to purchase all of
> that equipment, including HDTV cameras and equipment for the
> news operations. Currently less than a dozen LOCAL tv
> stations are broadcasting all local programs in HDTV-mostly
> because of the cost. However, this is something that all
> will have to do. If you were to start out now, it would make
> more sense just to invest in HDTV now instead of having to
> do it 2-3 years down the road. Few would be likely to do
> that.
>
> Now the original post was assuming that we move KGAN to
> Dubuque. They wouldn't have to purchase tons of new
> equipment, they could just move the old. Would you want to
> hire new talent, or use what you currently have? If you want
> to use the current talent, you must convince them all to
> move to Dubuque and they would expect you to help with
> moving expenses.
>
> So let's say you open KGAN in Dubuque does that mean
> everyone in Dubuque will magically turn their TV's to KGAN?
> Probably not- some will feel they are served enough already
> by KCRG and KWWL. They would not switch immediately,
> especially with the past history of TV in Dubuque. There
> probably would be more people in CR turning off KGAN than
> those in Dubuque tuning in. Those tuning out would then help
> make KCRG the clear leader in the market-it's just a simple
> fact. CR and IC have more people watching than Dubuque or
> Waterloo.
>
> Bottom line, history DOES play a major role in TV. That's
> why people tune into stations, because of their history.
> Yes, things can change. Look at how KGAN once was and what
> it is today. KWWL has a strong history in the Waterloo area.
> It's consistent in that part of the market and that's the
> reason a place like Waterloo can sustain a TV station. If
> the tables were turned I'd feel the same way. Let's say
> Dubuque has had a strong TV station there for 50 years, and
> let's say Waterloo did not have a TV station. If someone
> were to pose this question that way, I would say then that
> Waterloo could not make a TV station a success because they
> don't have a strong history to support them.
>
> In theory a TV station in Dubuque COULD work. In reality
> it's unlikely to happen. Just too many factors at this time
> working against it. Perhaps if Dubuque continues to grow and
> develop into the city people say it is, then it might work
> in the future. But an unstable economy right now makes it
> doubtful that anything like this would happen in the market.
>

 

[DeanSB]

Re: The province of Dubuque

> It can't and won't happen. A TV station based in Dubuque and
> focusing on SW Wisconsin and NW Illinois would be a mutt.
> You're talking about potentially four different TV DMAs
> being represented -- Cedar Rapids, Madison, Rockford and the
> Quad Cities. This means that absolutely no agency money
> would ever be allocated to this new hybrid market that
> you've dreamed up. If you think a TV station can survive,
> especially with all the blue sky, high-paid talent,
> equipment and sets you want, without national and regional
> money, you're nuts. And tourists don't watch your station.
>
> Dubuque had it's shot with KFXA/B, and the locals didn't
> support it. Those $15 spots were just toooo much of a budget
> buster for those car dealers who battle each other for the
> full-color front page of that fish wrapper of a newspaper. I
> always found it hilarious that those civic-minded Dubuquers
> who screamed the loudest over the loss of KFXB were also the
> ones who avoided advertising on that station like it was
> toxic.
>
> As far as the broadcast media goes, Dubuque is a radio town
> and for that we should all be thankful.


But there's not very many stations in the Dubuque area, though.

I sometimes travel through there with my family on our way to see relatives in the Chicago area, and whenever I listen to my Walkman in the Dubuque area, about the ONLY REALLY GOOD station is KLYV 105.3...K-Live 105.

Yes yes, I know they're now known as "Y-105", and they still play pretty good Top 40 music on there.

But I was kinda disappointed when I first heard the station after changing its name to "Y-105". "Y-105" is such an UN-ORIGINAL name!!

There's TONS of FM radio stations across the nation which use one or two of the letters in their callsigns to identify themselves. Examples include not only "Y-105" in Dubuque, but also "B-96" in Chicago, "KG-95" in Sioux City, "Z-98" in Sioux City, or other shortened ID's.

I felt that KLYV had a GOOD THING GOING with ID'ing their station as "K-Live 105". I felt that that name was truly ORIGINAL, and gave an extra "pizzaz" to the uniqueness of their station!!

So, if any of you in the Dubuque area, who are part of Cumulus Broadcasting (which owns KLYV), I would LOVE to see your station go back to identifying youselves as "K-Live 105"!!

Oh, and another thing...

KLYV should stream their station on the 'net, so that I can listen to them from my home here in Storm Lake, Iowa.

To me, it kinda sucks that their station only has a 50,000 watt signal going only 50 miles with a good car radio.

Why couldn't KLYV double its broadcasting power to 100,000 watts, and start streaming their signal online so that I can listen from here in northwest Iowa?

DeanSB2004<P ID="signature">______________
Dance Music RULEZ!! </P>

 

[DeanSB]

Re: The province of Dubuque

> A TV station serving Dubuque wouldn't even come close to
> touching either of those markets, and I don't mean they
> wouldn't be able to penetrate, I mean the geography is
> prohibitive...the cities just aren't as close as you're
> thinking they are. Most likely, at a reasonable power rate
> and depending upon tower location, it would get
> Dubuque/Waterloo/Cedar Rapids and quite possible the Quad
> Cities (QC TV stations are on Dubuque cable to this day.)
>
> This sounds to me like typical eastern Iowa, "Dubuque is a
> 2nd class city" thinking, which used to be true. The fact is
> that it's probably the most affluent of the major towns in
> the market, and it's tremendously underserved. All a TV
> outlet in Dubuque needs to do to both compete and make good
> money is serve Dubuque and find a way to hit Waterloo...just
> ask KWWL.


But it WOULD help if the Dubuque TV station would make its signal available to most of the Eastern Iowa market, as well as a GOOD part of SW Wisconsin and NW Illinois.

Also, it would help if the Dubuque station would be an affiliate of UPN, since Eastern Iowa is presently without a full-power UPN affiliate.

DeanSB<P ID="signature">______________
Dance Music RULEZ!! </P>

 

[icybluelake]

105.3

> KLYV should stream their station on the 'net, so that I can
> listen to them from my home here in Storm Lake, Iowa.
>
> To me, it kinda sucks that their station only has a 50,000
> watt signal going only 50 miles with a good car radio.
>
> Why couldn't KLYV double its broadcasting power to 100,000
> watts, and start streaming their signal online so that I can
> listen from here in northwest Iowa?
>
> DeanSB2004
>
I liked the K-live moniker (back in the day) better than say, Q103 or Q102 or B96. Different, if only slightly different. I've tuned in on rare occasion from CR, whenever I could, and can't say I was disappointed.

I think the main issue with FM stations in Eastern Iowa/western Illinois/SW Wisconsin is the size of the stick, not so much the wattage. 100,000 watts used to be hard to come by, although that's changed in recent years in Cedar Rapids/Iowa City/Muscatine (and WLLR in the Quad Cities has been at 100,000 watts for as long as I can remember).

With all due respect to the station, if you want internet streaming and you love dance music, why wish for internet streaming from a Top 40 station from Dubuque? Isn't it a good thing to have other dance-oriented stations that stream available to you? Not that there's any problem with listening to it, just that there is other, different fare to be had in cyberspace.

 

[jmmt59]

Re: Please don't come to a discussion unarmed

I'm sorry Steve but as a former resident of the Dubuque area and a person who frequently traveled from Dubuque to Sioux City (traveling through Waterloo) I know that there are important factors missing from this arguement.

First off, I would love to see a local newscast from Dubuque again. I watched KDUB and even though it wasn't the best newscast it still gave me the information needed from my local area.

But here is the problem.

You say that based on population numbers Dubuque matches up well with Waterloo. This is true. However you are forgetting that Waterloo is adjacent to Cedar Falls which adds approx. 35,000 people to the market area. Cedar Falls is also the part of the area where the most money is. So the poverty statistics on Waterloo are slightly misleading. When adding Cedar Falls to Waterloo you have a community of nearly 100,000 people which also does not include the fairly large student population from UNI.

Dubuque cannot compete with those numbers unless it goes into a major growth spurt in the near future. And, being from Dubuque and knowing the way things work that is not very likely. Dubuque is and always has been a community opposed to major change. Even though it has gone through a slight change from blue collar to white collar no employer will ever be more important to the Dubuque economy than John Deere which will always make Dubuque mostly a blue collar town.

I love Dubuque, however it is not feasible for anyone to make money broadcasting TV. That is just reality.

 

[weatherduck]

>>1) Whatever happened to Eileen Loan from KGAN, was she let go? or is she >>working somewhere else now?

>She was on KWWL over the weekend. I don't know if she was
> hired by them full time or if she was just filling in for
> the weekend newscasts as a vacation fill in.

She's filling in for current mets. so vacation time evens out, you'll see her one more time this year and that would be this upcoming weekend...