KGO's Revamp... Take Two

[Gregg]

I'm confused. I thought KGO was moving to an All-News format except for Talk host Ronn Owens, who they'd keep till his contract runs out. But on second look, that's not the case. The only major thing different about KGO's schedule is that they added an All-News block to evenings, 7-10pm. They're listed now in the ratings as a "News" station but they still have plenty of Talk shows throughout the week.

Originally, the story was that Cumulus saw KCBS's big numbers and looked at their own faultering ratings. David Eduardo told us that KGO's audience had aged to the point that, even though 810 was still a Top 10 station 6+, it had fallen to #20 in the 25-54 demo. (It wasn't so long ago that KGO was one of the few large-market AM stations in the country consistantly in the Top 5 in the 25-54 demo.)

But when you looked at KGO's All-News block in the morning, that was around #14 in the market. They were paying lots of money to their Talk hosts when it turned out the AM News block was out-performing the Talk segments in the 25-54 race.

So the theory was, KGO would fire the high-priced Talk hosts, and just expand the All-News blocks to all day. After all, they already had the reporters, writers and anchors for the most part doing AM and PM Drive anyway. It wouldn't cost that much more to extend the All-News blocks all day with the exception of Ronn Owens, who still gets good ratings and who has an iron-clad no-cut contract. They'd have the syndicated Red Eye Radio, which Cumulus already owns, run after midnight, instead of All-News, since overnights aren't really rated anyway.

Looking at the schedule, that's not what happened. They hired a new host for Noon to 2pm (Kim Foster) and another host for 10pm-Midnight (John Kessler). And on weekends, when I thought they'd just opt for infomercials, doctor shows and syndicated specialty shows (gardening, pets, cars, travel) which have their own built-in advertisers, KGO instead has a line up of hosts still getting paid to do local talk.

I'm confused. Was this really a mass-firing of older Talk hosts, designed to look like a format change? Why go to All-News 7-10pm on weeknights when you've still got two Talk hosts in the daytime? CBS AM stations WBZ Boston and KRLD Dallas do All-News in the daytime, then switch to Talk at night. If Ronn Owens has a no-cut contract, why not get him to do 7-10pm, followed by a live airing of Red Eye Radio at ten o'clock? That way KGO would be a real competitor to KCBS with All-News from 4am - 7pm, when people are driving and want quick news stories and frequent weather and traffic? Can anyone other than the Program Director remember when the Talk blocks air and the News blocks air on KGO?

One last question... Why does KGO still do better in the ratings in San Jose than KCBS? Even with this odd jumbled format, KGO tops KCBS in in the latest San Jose ratings by nearly a full ratings point.



Gregg
[email protected]

 

[1069_KIFR]

Unless it is in Ronn Owens contract that he will broadcast at his current time slot, Do not 'get him' to move to the 7pm-midnight shift, the PD tells him he is now on at 7pm. If he refuses, then he leaves on his own. His contract is nullified and KGO moves on with their plans to be All News.

 

[recto101]

Look at December 2011 KCBS was at 6.0 and KGO was at 4.7
in January KCBS went up to 6.6 and KGO went down to 2.7
February 2012 the ratings in the books stayed the same.

Well KGO will have to focus harder on the San Jose books and compete against KLIV if they want to stay in the all-news format.
But look at KGO on the weekend they go all-talk.

 

[recto101]

If KLIV and KGO want to keep all news in San Jose they have to play the Wins and WCBS card in NYC. or the KFWB and KNX card in LA. KCBS would cover the San Francisco, Oakland and the North half of the Bay Area. and KLIV and KGO would have to cover the southern part of the Bay area. KGO would have drop the WEMP card for the 1010 Wins Card. THat means KGO would have to use the slogan "You Give us 22 Minutes we Give you the World" Mantra. But as far as I know this would not work in the Bay Area. One was KNAI was killed off in the 1970's because KCBS and KGO ran them over. Number 2 would be KPIX 95.7 but the CBS merger Killed them off.

 

[SFStatic]

I would bet Ronn has it in his contract that he has to air 9-12n. I had a host once who got moved in LA, and from then on, he had it in his contract that he could only air 6-10am. If you took him off, you paid off the entire contract, period. If Owens is making the kind of money I think he is, *** isn't about to pull him and buy that whole contract out...plus, he has historically had good ratings.

 

[davideduardo]

Well KGO will have to focus harder on the San Jose books and compete against KLIV if they want to stay in the all-news format.
But look at KGO on the weekend they go all-talk.

There is no money in the San José sub-market; it amazes me that there are still subscribers to the book.

San Francisco is market #4, with nearly $300 million in revenue. San Jose is market 37, and is lower than 70th in billings on its own.

KGO used to bill more than the combined billing of all the San Jose market stations combined.

 

[davideduardo]

One last question... Why does KGO still do better in the ratings in San Jose than KCBS? Even with this odd jumbled format, KGO tops KCBS in in the latest San Jose ratings by nearly a full ratings point.

I am sure that there is more to it than this, but keep in mind that KGO's transmitter is at the south end of the bay, and puts a better signal over Santa Clara county than it does over the city of San Francisco. KCBS AM is located at the far north end of the bay, and even though the main lobe goes directly south, it is not quite as good in SJ as KGO. KCBS-FM is more of a Northbay signal, too.

 

[radio dx]

I don't know about anybody else but I jumped ship and started listening to 910. Although I am not a fan of Clearchannel I think they did a great job to fill the local "newstalk" crowd and I for one will not go back to KGO and Sebastian with the news grew on me.

I would like a more extensive local news block and more Jim Gabbert otherwise 910 sounds good to me.

 

[MC]

Is KGO now flip-floping back to more TALK? or was this there plan all along? Seems like they are back-peddling on their orginial remake. Like COKE, back to classic Coke.

 

[DavidKaye]

Looking at the schedule, that's not what happened. They hired a new host for Noon to 2pm (Kim Foster) and another host for 10pm-Midnight (John Kessler). And on weekends, when I thought they'd just opt for infomercials, doctor shows and syndicated specialty shows (gardening, pets, cars, travel) which have their own built-in advertisers, KGO instead has a line up of hosts still getting paid to do local talk.

This is why I've kept saying to wait and see. I also brought up the evidence that Cumulus support live and local talk because of what they've done with KNBR, which they've owned for a number of years. When they took over from Susquehanna they didn't fill the schedule with infomercials; they kept the live and local talk with not one but usually two co-hosts.

I figured they'd stay live and local with KGO as well, much to the chagrin of the doom & gloomers who thought Cumulus was just going to dismantle KGO and turn it into an infomercial machine.

In fact, the revered KKSF 910 has a boatload of infomercials. I don't think KGO has any at the moment.

 

[recto101]

But Wait In NYC WCBS is based on the the 1-hour cycle and its news content are based on the NY Times. WINS is on a 20-minute cycle and its news content is based on the NY Post.

However in San Jose KLIV is on a 1 hour cycle but its news content is based on the San Jose Mercury. KGO is on a 1 hour cycle and its content is based on the features and some of the top local headlines section of the San Francisco Chronicle. KCBS on the Other hand is more focused on National, World and Local of the San Francisco Chronicle and its on the 1 hour cycle too.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I'm not sure the way you define these radio stations in terms of newspaper coverage is quite accurate, at least from the station's content-gatherers would say, but you do make a worthwhile distinction here to demonstrate who there is room for more than one "all news" outlet in a radio market.

Then again, the top news stories are the top news stories. I think it's good to hear more than one treatment of these items, to be a genuinely well-informed citizen. To do that, however, I make a point to listen to BBC and CBC coverage from time to time, and I would like to hear news treatment of world and US items from even more news sources, domestic and from other countries.

Being well informed, and comparing different perspectives on an issue, seems like something many commercial radio operators seem to think is not in their interest anymore. To the detriment of the broadcasting industry, and the nation, as I see it.

 

[recto101]

I listen to NewsRadio International from time to time and I know that the content is better than the Commercial all-news operations. News Radio international is more detailed oriented and more World news oriented.

http://www.newsradiointernational.com/

 

[MC]

I thought the switch to all news was the bold intelligent move, now they are flipping back to talk? Looks to me like they made a mistake and they are correcting it.

 

[DJBigOne]

I thought the switch to all news was the bold intelligent move, now they are flipping back to talk? Looks to me like they made a mistake and they are correcting it.

If I make a mistake, I'm man enough to admit it...and fix it.

Laying off good, popular talent is not the way to gain listeners. If I tune to a station at X time, I would like to know my favorite host will be there.

 

[DavidKaye]

Laying off good, popular talent is not the way to gain listeners. If I tune to a station at X time, I would like to know my favorite host will be there.

Frankly, I was a KGO listener and have long felt that (with the exception of Gil Gross) that their second string hosts were better than their first string. Ronn Owens bores me to tears. John Rothmann is stuck in the Teddy Roosevelt administration, and unless you're a presidential cultist his talkshow is BORING. Gene Burns has absolutely nothing new to contribute to any topic, and is woefully out of touch about everything but food and wine snobbery. THAT he knows well. In fact, his assistant is better on his food show than he is. Ray Taliaferro, though I agree with him politically, was repeating the same stuff, literally repeating, for two decades. I could barely listen to KGO.

Notice that KGO has stopped its slide. Sure they have fewer listeners now, but maybe they have closer to the demographics they want. In every batch of rotgut whisky you have to throw out the methanol to get the ethanol. Sometimes in talkradio you have to throw out the hosts who aren't cutting it and do something else.

I have a feeling that once they work out the kinks in the news operation and settle on a decent weekend talk host schedule, KGO's ratings may indeed start heading up again.

As for me, I'm so confused about the KGO talk schedule that I only occasionally listen. I do listen to their afternoon news because Chris and Brett are the very top anchors in the Bay Area, always asking intelligent questions and making intelligent statements about every topic they encounter. I wish they could do something with midday and nights that are even half as good. Maybe they will in time.

 

[chris319]

Sure they have fewer listeners now, but maybe they have closer to the demographics they want.

Given their drop in overall ratings, I have a hard time believing they have a larger 25 - 54 audience now than they did six months ago.

Their overnight show is unlistenable and not appropriate for the market. They may as well turn off the Nautel from midnight to 5 am. Assuming they pay 15 cents per kWh and 50% transmitter efficiency, it costs them $75 to keep it turned on for five hours. I doubt their solar array does them much good during those hours. That's $525 per week or $27,300 per year, probably more than KGO makes from running Red Eye Radio.

 

[DavidKaye]

Given their drop in overall ratings, I have a hard time believing they have a larger 25 - 54 audience now than they did six months ago.

Their overnight show is unlistenable and not appropriate for the market. They may as well turn off the Nautel from midnight to 5 am. Assuming they pay 15 cents per kWh and 50% transmitter efficiency, it costs them $75 to keep it turned on for five hours. I doubt their solar array does them much good during those hours. That's $525 per week or $27,300 per year, probably more than KGO makes from running Red Eye Radio.

You don't know what their bottom line and their sales are. It could well be that with the cuts and the change that they're making more money than they were before. Again, you don't know; I don't know.

I agree that the overnight is unlistenable to us, but the show is jam-packed with ads, something that Doug McIntyre didn't have when he had Red Eye. And as for Ray Taliaferro, he had fewer spot breaks during his show, and as far as I know the spots were all ROS, which as you know is the lowest cost ad there is.

 

[chris319]

You're talking about billing and cost of doing business; I'm talking only about ratings and demos. Yes, they did lower their expenses by getting rid of the talk hosts. I can't imagine Ray T. made much money for the station after his and his producer's salaries were taken into account.

I know Red Eye Radio is an in-house (Cumulus) job, so how does it put money into KGO's coffers with all that advertising? Through local avails?

 

[DavidKaye]

You're talking about billing and cost of doing business;

That's all it comes down to. All commercial stations must make money at some point or they're not worth running. Very few commercial broadcasters run charities. We can probably count them on one hand and the owners have always run classical formats: the Bullitt sisters (KING) in Seattle, the KCRL woman in Reno, and a few others. They had enough money that they could take the financial drain of running money-losing radio. But even they kept their expenses to a minimum. Classical is fairly easy; you don't need production, you don't need the DJs do do much work so they can be automated or do other things around the station while on-air, and there are a lot of works out there that do not require payment of performance royalties.

I know Red Eye Radio is an in-house (Cumulus) job, so how does it put money into KGO's coffers with all that advertising? Through local avails?

I'm sure whatever ads KGO might be running in the overnight are just ROS, so it doesn't matter whether there are any listeners at all as the advertisers are buying rock-bottom priced packages. ("We'll give you 1 spot a week on Ronn Owens, 5 a week during news blocks, and 60 a week run of schedule.") Except for C Crane, I can't think of any advertiser who would specifically buy overnights.

And Cumulus would be approaching their national advertisers saying, "Okay, for X dollars we'll give you NY, LA, Miami, SF, Phoenix..." Having those larger markets in the package can swing a sale, whether or not the advertiser actually gets sales in that particular market it still sounds like a good thing for the guy who placed the ad to tell his boss, "Hey, look, we're in the top 20 markets!"