KGO's signal

[airpab]

Other than KOA/850 at night out of Denver, I am amazed at KGO's signal. When I'm in AZ or Southern Cal or anywhere within a 1000 miles of SF, I can get KGO easily at night. And during the day, they must have the most penetrating signal I've ever heard. It doesn't matter where you are, they boom. Does anyone know where their tower is because it must be in a phenomenal spot??

 

[1069_KIFR]

AM 810 is on a 'clear channel'. No one else is on that frequency. Just like KOA. Also KFI 640AM. So at night they can keep their signal strength high and be heard all over.

 

[CarterB]

KGO is directional, its 50KW is beamed north and south. This is designed to keep the signal from moving inland to an extent. The only 50KW non directional signal in the Ba Area is KNBR. The pattern on 810 is very effective up and down the coast.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

KCBS and KGO can be heard very well here in LA after sunset.

 

[OldVWs]

KGO transmitter is at the eastern end of the Dumbarton Bridge between Menlo Park and Newark CA. It is at sea level and surrounded mostly by water / salt evaporation ponds. I do remember driving past the station after the 1989 earthquake, and 2 of the 3 antennas were toppled over. I think they upgraded all three shortly afterwards.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

IIRC, KGO's site was "Miss February" in this year's
Tower Site Of The Month calendar (Scott Fybush).

 

[LKellerIII]

"I do remember driving past the station after the 1989 earthquake, and 2 of the 3 antennas were toppled over. I think they upgraded all three shortly afterwards."

I don't know to what extent the signal was "upgraded" in 89, but I remember that my mother (a talk radio addict) would listen to KGO at night in the San Fernando Valley (LA) in the 60s and early 70s. KGO came through as loud and clear as the stronger LA stations - without any static.

 

[SFStatic]

KGO is not one of the old 1A clear channels. There are at least 6 50Kw stations in the cont. US on 810 (at least according to the FCC site 5 minutes ago), and a boatload of lower power stations. As I recall, there were about 20 of the 1A clears...50Kw non-D, and the sole station on the particular frequency. That said, KGO does have a hell of a signal, but not the level of KNBR.

 

[livingfruitvirus]

KGO is not one of the old 1A clear channels. There are at least 6 50Kw stations in the cont. US on 810 (at least according to the FCC site 5 minutes ago), and a boatload of lower power stations. As I recall, there were about 20 of the 1A clears...50Kw non-D, and the sole station on the particular frequency. That said, KGO does have a hell of a signal, but not the level of KNBR.

Well let's see. There's 810 WGY - Albany, NY (non-directional pattern). I don't know of any other 50,000 watt nighttimers on 810 AM.

Also, I'm in Los Angeles and can hear KGO as if I was right in San Francisco.

 

[ABQTom]

KGO null SE, E, NE:

in Albuqueqrue New Mexico we can't get KGO at all because it is directional, three towers, I think 4200mV/m at its max.

But we can get both KCBS 740 and KNX 1070 and KNBR 680.

If you travel on I-40 between Albuquerque and Flagstaff, I suspect that at some point you can get KGO n/t 810.

How about in Utah and Colorado, are they in the null, too?

Or, once you get to Idaho and Montana and perhaps North Dakota, are they out of the null?

 

[Channel Surf]

KGO is not one of the old 1A clear channels. There are at least 6 50Kw stations in the cont. US on 810 (at least according to the FCC site 5 minutes ago), and a boatload of lower power stations. As I recall, there were about 20 of the 1A clears...50Kw non-D, and the sole station on the particular frequency. That said, KGO does have a hell of a signal, but not the level of KNBR.

Well let's see. There's 810 WGY - Albany, NY (non-directional pattern). I don't know of any other 50,000 watt nighttimers on 810 AM.

Also, I'm in Los Angeles and can hear KGO as if I was right in San Francisco.

In addition to WGY, there is also 810-WHB-Kansas City, Mo. WHB is 50,000 watts non directional by day, but is 5000 watts directional with a north/south pattern at night. The pattern suggests that it is protecting both KGO and WGY.

 

[sloux]

KGO is not one of the old 1A clear channels. There are at least 6 50Kw stations in the cont. US on 810 (at least according to the FCC site 5 minutes ago), and a boatload of lower power stations. As I recall, there were about 20 of the 1A clears...50Kw non-D, and the sole station on the particular frequency. That said, KGO does have a hell of a signal, but not the level of KNBR.

I have to disagree with your assertion. KGO is in fact, "one of the old 1A clear channels." The fact that it operates directionally (some data suggests it is to protect the 810 KHz non-directional facility in New York) does not negate it's clear channel status. Your query into AM class A stations in the US should have returned exactly two results: KGO and WGY (it worked when I ran the query.) Another interesting page from the FCC on the complete list of clear channel stations is found here: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/amclasses.html

Placing Class A clear channel stations in sub-categories of DA and ND is a nuance relative to FCC class.

Another idea out there is that you cannot have two 50KW non-directional stations on the same frequency in the US. Contradicting that notion is the April, 2007 authorization by the FCC for KICY to operate 50KW day and night non-directional at 850 KHz, in the same manner KOA is doing.

Perhaps you live near the shadow of the KGO null point, and find KNBR's signal more impressive. However if you have traveled the west coast, you will find KGO's punch north-south is unparalleled by KNBR. True, if one listens in the Rockies, KNBR has more reach. Yet KGO's directional arrays seem to provide ERP's far in excess of the true power. Going back to the KICY example, they are equipped to operate directionally at 50KW to fire directly at the Russian Far East, and do just that from 11 p.m to 4 a.m. Alaska time each night. The ERP of the KICY directional 50KW signal from the vantage point of Russia is in excess of 200KW.

 

[vibe]

Why the hell would a west coast station like KGO want to be anything but directional north and south?
I think LA and Portland OR are better secondary markets than Tucumcari NM and all the snakes/lizards in the desert (I'm NOT referring to Phoenix) in between. Or DX ers in Honolulu!

 

[LKellerIII]

"Perhaps you live near the shadow of the KGO null point, and find KNBR's signal more impressive. However if you have traveled the west coast, you will find KGO's punch north-south is unparalleled by KNBR. True, if one listens in the Rockies, KNBR has more reach. Yet KGO's directional arrays seem to provide ERP's far in excess of the true power."

As a kid, I was a late night insomniac and did a lot of DXing from my home in suburban Los Angeles. As I said previously, KGO came in as strong at night as the stronger local LA stations. I could also bring in KCBS, 610/KFRC, and (strangely) KDON 1460 in Salinas/Monterey. I don't remember ever hearing in KNBR, though I guess it's possible I heard Andy Williams or some other MOR artist, and moved on.

 

[CarterB]

I remember the time Ron Fell, the PD at KNBR called me to comment about something I had said on the air. I said, "thought you were in Denver with the Raiders today". He replied, "I am in Denver, listening to you now." The downside of all that power: can divert the talent from the task of working the local market, thats where the sales and ratings are to be found.

 

[davideduardo]

I have to disagree with your assertion. KGO is in fact, "one of the old 1A clear channels."

No, it is not and never was a 1-A.

The 1-A's were the 50 kw non-directional stations on non-shared channels (frequencies are the Post-NARBA allocations):
640 LA
650 Nashville
660 New York
670 Chicago
700 Cincy
720 Chicago
750 Atlanta
760 Detroit
770 NY
780 Chicago
820 Ft worth
830 MPls
840 Lousiville
870 NO
880 NY
890 Chi
1020 P'burg
1030 Boston
1040 Des Moines
1100 Cleveland
1120 St Louis
1160 SLC
1180 rochester
1200 San Antonio
1210 Philly.

Those were the only US 1-A clears... in their day, duplicated by no fulltime station anywhere in the US.

There were also 1-B clears, some of which were non-directional like WTIC in Hartford, 680 in San francisco, 810 in Schenectedy. Others were directional, like KFAB in Omaha, WBT in Charlotte, KGO in San Francisco. Such channels had duplication... sometimes two directionals, like 1000 in Chicago and Seattle, or New York and Seattle on 710, and there were others with a mix... 810 is one, with more dominant stations in SF (directional) and NY (non-d) and secondaries in San Juan (50 kw) and Kansas City and a few other smaller stations.

A's and B's were both clear channels, and only because the power could be as high as 50 kw. Mexico allows 250 kw on its clears, like 540, 730, 900, 940, 1570, 1050, 800, etc., most of which are shared with Canada. Even the Bahamas has a clear, 154o per NARBA.

The fact that it operates directionally (some data suggests it is to protect the 810 KHz non-directional facility in New York)

It's licence requires a null centered on Schenectedy.

does not negate it's clear channel status.

But it was licensed as a 1-B, not a 1-A clear. Today, all are the same class, but were not created equal.

Your query into AM class A stations in the US should have returned exactly two results: KGO and WGY (it worked when I ran the query.)

Placing Class A clear channel stations in sub-categories of DA and ND is a nuance relative to FCC class.

No, it is not a nuance. The FCC, for 6 decades, considered KGO and, for example, WABC, two different classes of stations.

Another idea out there is that you cannot have two 50KW non-directional stations on the same frequency in the US. Contradicting that notion is the April, 2007 authorization by the FCC for KICY to operate 50KW day and night non-directional at 850 KHz, in the same manner KOA is doing.

KICY has a three tower night directional. And it is outside the Continental US, nearer to Russia than

Yet KGO's directional arrays seem to provide ERP's far in excess of the true power.

All you have is 50 kw of power "funneled" in a tight figure 8, meaning that in the center of the maoin two lobes, it is the equivalent of 200 kw, while in the null, like 1000 watts.

 

[sloux]

Another idea out there is that you cannot have two 50KW non-directional stations on the same frequency in the US. Contradicting that notion is the April, 2007 authorization by the FCC for KICY to operate 50KW day and night non-directional at 850 KHz, in the same manner KOA is doing.

KICY has a three tower night directional. And it is outside the Continental US, nearer to Russia than

David, thanks for the great historical background and your several clarifications.

You are incorrect though with regard to KICY broadcast status. It is licensed for non-directional 50KW day and night. It is also licensed for what the FCC terms, "CRITICAL HOURS" wherein it goes directional for broadcasts into the Russian Far East each day from 11 p.m. to 4 a.m. However, much of its "nighttime" broadcast hours (and especially so in the winter) are non-directional 50 KW from its center tower, with the other two towers idle. The FCC granted this license modification last April; more details are found here: www.covchurch.org/cov/news/item5513

Also, I might have been overstating the case a bit with regard to non-directional 50KW stations sharing the same frequency, as Western AK is a good distance from the contiguous (not continental) US. Correct me if I'm wrong, but only in Alaska does it appear it is possible to duplicate the clear channel 50KW ND power.

 

[the golden boy]

KGO null SE, E, NE:

in Albuqueqrue New Mexico we can't get KGO at all because it is directional, three towers, I think 4200mV/m at its max.

That's weird. I was able to get KGO in West Texas four years ago. Has it always been like that in the ABQ?

 

[davideduardo]

You are incorrect though with regard to KICY broadcast status. It is licensed for non-directional 50KW day and night. It is also licensed for what the FCC terms, "CRITICAL HOURS" wherein it goes directional for broadcasts into the Russian Far East each day from 11 p.m. to 4 a.m.

"Critical hours" are a period prior to local sunset, and after local sunrise. They vary by month. I suspect the FCC lists CH when in fact, the station is really authorized to be non-D or directional at its choice at any time. Since it is too far away to affect Lower 48 stations, this would make sense. The FCC site is not letting me see the license application, so I can't check now.

Similarly, Hawaiian stations, before the 1-A's were "broken down" in the 70's were allowed up to 10 kw non-d on 1 A clears, like 650 and 760 and 870 and 1040. Too far off to bother WSM, WJR, WWL and WHO. And there are other cases of 50's... KFQD in Anchorage has 50 kw on 750, home of originally designated 1-A WSB, but I believe the increase to 50 kw came after the breakdown of the clears... KFQD in the 60's and 70's was 10 kw on 730, and later moved to the better 750 as 730 had some canadians on it.

Also, I might have been overstating the case a bit with regard to non-directional 50KW stations sharing the same frequency, as Western AK is a good distance from the contiguous (not continental) US.

Sorry about that... coming from Puerto Rico where I lived most of my life... we call non-Puerto Rican Americans "continentals." Alsaka is, of course, in North America.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but only in Alaska does it appear it is possible to duplicate the clear channel 50KW ND power.

The only 50 ever in Hawaii, 870 KAIM, was directional. And in Puerto Rico, WKVM, the only 50 there, was always directional. So I think you are right... nobody ever asked for 50 kw in Pago Pago, so we don't know about that one. But they are on 9 kHz intervals, anyway.

 

[Hunter]

KGO transmitter is at the eastern end of the Dumbarton Bridge between Menlo Park and Newark CA. It is at sea level and surrounded mostly by water / salt evaporation ponds. I do remember driving past the station after the 1989 earthquake, and 2 of the 3 antennas were toppled over. I think they upgraded all three shortly afterwards.

Let's not forget the importance of ground conductivity for an AM's signal. Water is a great conductor.