I tuned in, it's really sad how such a mighty independent station that was cutting edge in the Northwest has fallen. And worse it's like Green River College just doesn't seem to care anymore. Where's the GM? Are they simply phoning it in? Time for someone with the brass ones to buy the station, turn it independent, revive the Today's Rock format and say screw it make a go at being a local brand the community recognizes. Hell, it probably could be bought for a bargain before some church decides to buy it and put another KLove format on the air (I'm still jaded at 104.5, what a waste letting that go to EMF...Unbelievable)
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KGRG goes silent
- Thread starter valvashon
- Start date
I see what you did there..... we play that on KLMI
KGRG is toast. To some extent, I get it. To another extent, I don’t.
I think it’s pretty clear that the well of funding ran dry. It seems like Green River College has moved away from teaching the art of broadcasting. I made my opinion clear earlier on in this thread (but I’ll say it again): I don’t think radio and broadcasting is something you always need formal training for. It’s something you can pick up from experience if you have the talent and aptitude. Rather, I think broadcasting school can be a bit of a risky endeavor, since getting a degree in broadcasting doesn’t necessarily mean that you have the natural skill to do it. I’ve personally seen examples of people who attended an education program for radio (but lacked the natural ability to do it well). I think it may be best to let people who want to learn it through internships, volunteering, etc.. So in short, I appreciate when schools let students learn a bit, but get a chance to broadcast (whether they’re in the magic program or not). My old
university operated this way. You could get a chance to spend time at the student radio station without committing yourself to a broadcasting degree.
Also, as I recall, Charlie Harger was a pretty major part of the Green River broadcasting program. I believe he was teaching some me the courses. As we know, he’s now hosting a very important show on one of the most listened to radio stations in Seattle. If many of those staff members have moved on to other opportunities, it would probably be difficult to sustain the program over time.
With all of that out of the way, I will also say this: I’m not sure I understand completely giving up on KGRG either. You don’t need to be the biggest signal in town. Who cares? As I stated before in this thread, I would have explored the possibility of locating the transmitter right at Green River College. You’re already on Lea Hill, so you’ll probably get decent coverage. It’s nothing special, but the point of KGRG is to be an effective teaching tool. You can let students learn and experiment, and it doesn’t matter if they’re on the internet, on FM, or on 1330AM.
Lastly, I don’t understand giving up on the rock format. Sure, rock isn’t as strong of a format as it once was, but who cares? I see KGRG as being more of an internet presence anyway. The FM doesn’t exist to attract a ton of listeners, and I think it was pointless to try and flip it to some sort of CHR (in hopes of getting it to somehow attract a following). I’d argue that what they had before probably had more listeners (again, online).
I think it’s pretty clear that the well of funding ran dry. It seems like Green River College has moved away from teaching the art of broadcasting. I made my opinion clear earlier on in this thread (but I’ll say it again): I don’t think radio and broadcasting is something you always need formal training for. It’s something you can pick up from experience if you have the talent and aptitude. Rather, I think broadcasting school can be a bit of a risky endeavor, since getting a degree in broadcasting doesn’t necessarily mean that you have the natural skill to do it. I’ve personally seen examples of people who attended an education program for radio (but lacked the natural ability to do it well). I think it may be best to let people who want to learn it through internships, volunteering, etc.. So in short, I appreciate when schools let students learn a bit, but get a chance to broadcast (whether they’re in the magic program or not). My old
university operated this way. You could get a chance to spend time at the student radio station without committing yourself to a broadcasting degree.
Also, as I recall, Charlie Harger was a pretty major part of the Green River broadcasting program. I believe he was teaching some me the courses. As we know, he’s now hosting a very important show on one of the most listened to radio stations in Seattle. If many of those staff members have moved on to other opportunities, it would probably be difficult to sustain the program over time.
With all of that out of the way, I will also say this: I’m not sure I understand completely giving up on KGRG either. You don’t need to be the biggest signal in town. Who cares? As I stated before in this thread, I would have explored the possibility of locating the transmitter right at Green River College. You’re already on Lea Hill, so you’ll probably get decent coverage. It’s nothing special, but the point of KGRG is to be an effective teaching tool. You can let students learn and experiment, and it doesn’t matter if they’re on the internet, on FM, or on 1330AM.
Lastly, I don’t understand giving up on the rock format. Sure, rock isn’t as strong of a format as it once was, but who cares? I see KGRG as being more of an internet presence anyway. The FM doesn’t exist to attract a ton of listeners, and I think it was pointless to try and flip it to some sort of CHR (in hopes of getting it to somehow attract a following). I’d argue that what they had before probably had more listeners (again, online).
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I worked as "VP" for an owner with about a dozen stations in Puerto Rico. He began as an engineer for WHOM in New York, and became CE at a TV station in San Juan. Later, he bought part of a radio station with a partner, and soon had his own AM with one of those FMs nobody wanted. The FM spent a quarter century as #1 in the market. And he built 3 FM island-wide networks and an AM news net, too.
He always avoided personally interviewing college graduates with broadcast degrees. His comment: "They all think they know more than I do".
It makes complete sense. I think the best thing that ever happened to me was getting the chance to actually watch and learn from real people. As a young 18 year old kid getting into radio and media, I most definitely thought I knew more than everyone else. But instead of going to school for any broadcasting degree, I ended up learning by experience. Learning on the job is the perfect way to bring myself back down to earth quickly. I wouldn’t change that experience for the world.
I think people who have been in the business long enough would agree (as your personal story suggests). At the very least, someone who wants to learn from experience can learn from scratch, whereas someone with a degree is going to come in thinking they have the solution (based on a class they took). I developed a very strong relationship with some of my mentors because they were able to teach me what they knew from a clean slate. That kind of experience is worth its weight in gold.
And to be fair, my dad always said “no” to the prospect of doing any sort of broadcasting tech program when I mentioned it to him growing up. I probably saved him some money.
Back in 1971 I dropped out of college in Boston to take a job at a NH Seacoast AM/FM station.....
The job was offered to me as "part time" ....the jock had to leave for medical reasons, and "he might come back....."
He never did......and in the 3 1/2 months I spent there (the new owners cleaned house -- from GM to weekend jocks!) I
learned more about engineering and announcing than my school could have taught me in 4 YEARS!!
Fond memories of the pipe-smoking engineer, Tony ----and Howie, the (then) PD....
They sparked - and KEPT - my interest in broadcasting more than any other person I've worked for ---
This past April I began my 54th year in "the biz" (albeit semi-retired......).....
The job was offered to me as "part time" ....the jock had to leave for medical reasons, and "he might come back....."
He never did......and in the 3 1/2 months I spent there (the new owners cleaned house -- from GM to weekend jocks!) I
learned more about engineering and announcing than my school could have taught me in 4 YEARS!!
Fond memories of the pipe-smoking engineer, Tony ----and Howie, the (then) PD....
They sparked - and KEPT - my interest in broadcasting more than any other person I've worked for ---
This past April I began my 54th year in "the biz" (albeit semi-retired......).....
I had my college experience, it was fun and I did learn a lot but when I got to be part of an AM drive show, that's where I really learned the ropes from on-air to Production/Imaging/VO. I'd still love to get a group of people (or former KGRG staff) to do a nonprofit to buy KGRG FM and AM and turn it into a little indie station. If Green River doesn't care, toss it to people who actually do.
While it's probably true that most college radio programs are dying, I disagree with the idea that one doesn't need college radio experience to get a radio job, if only because the equipment needed to operate a radio station is something you just can't buy off the shelf and experiment with at home. The experience I got at KCMU was enough to probably land me a board op job at a local station, because the equipment and technology was very similar, and the general concept was the same.
I ended up in the industry working with sound files, but what I learned at KCMU was probably the equivalent to an apprenticeship. A radio station can't just pull in someone off the street and train them to do anything at radio -- unless it's to be the janitor. For one thing, companies -- including radio companies -- don't train people anymore. They expect you to at least already understand the tech used, and general concepts of operating radio. For that, you need at least some sort of training. For another, radio companies are working with much less staff than they did when I got into radio in the late 1980's. They don't have time to train someone who has zero radio experience. That's where the college station programs come in.
That said, I agree with Fordranger that KGRG should just mount a transmitter on the roof of the highest building at GRCC and transmit that way, if they're going to keep the program running. It's ironic that the station is reportedly going off the air, after they just fixed the AM transmitter. I haven't heard it lately, but then I haven't tuned in. Last time I tuned to 1330 it was 5 a.m. and I heard nothing, really.
Online-only will probably work, though. Except it's anyone's guess how many people use KGRG's stream. I suppose it's similar to the old fashioned carrier current AM college and high school stations of the 1950's and 60's. Perhaps, in that case, audience doesn't matter.
I ended up in the industry working with sound files, but what I learned at KCMU was probably the equivalent to an apprenticeship. A radio station can't just pull in someone off the street and train them to do anything at radio -- unless it's to be the janitor. For one thing, companies -- including radio companies -- don't train people anymore. They expect you to at least already understand the tech used, and general concepts of operating radio. For that, you need at least some sort of training. For another, radio companies are working with much less staff than they did when I got into radio in the late 1980's. They don't have time to train someone who has zero radio experience. That's where the college station programs come in.
That said, I agree with Fordranger that KGRG should just mount a transmitter on the roof of the highest building at GRCC and transmit that way, if they're going to keep the program running. It's ironic that the station is reportedly going off the air, after they just fixed the AM transmitter. I haven't heard it lately, but then I haven't tuned in. Last time I tuned to 1330 it was 5 a.m. and I heard nothing, really.
Online-only will probably work, though. Except it's anyone's guess how many people use KGRG's stream. I suppose it's similar to the old fashioned carrier current AM college and high school stations of the 1950's and 60's. Perhaps, in that case, audience doesn't matter.
no, no its not... just about all streaming providers can te;ll you how many a tuined in at a given time, the average listeners per day, how long each user listens, the average time spent listening, and the longest time a listened tuned in.
This might be of some interest. page 7 makes it clear. 64pages. pdf
Yep, that outlines it pretty well. While I don’t argue with any of the data that Green River presented, I’m not sure I fully agree. This report almost makes it sound like there’s no value in radio at all, and that nobody is using it. That’s definitely not true.
What is true is that there’s no longer a strong demand for a whole cohort of broadcasting school students to enter the workforce. The days of tons of board op jobs (and other entry level opportunities) are gone. For that reason, there’s no need to maintain a broadcasting program that prepares students for these types of careers. Colleges and universities have a reputation to uphold, and it doesn’t reflect well on the institution if students come out and try to enter a job market that doesn’t exist.
What I don't understand is turning the license back in without an attempt to sell.
Someone needs to buy it and turn it into a volunteer non-profit. Screw Green River
Well, I went to a wedding my janitor's little band played at and heard him work the crowd between songs. I was about to do a format flip from Beautiful Music to all-salsa in a few weeks, and I had him do some demos with out production guy. He was a natural. I hired him to do middays at what would be WZNT, and a bit over 6 weeks later, the station was #1 in market #12 with a 22.5 share.
Monchi, the former janitor, had shares just as high as the others. He had learned "the board" in less than a day as he was used to handling audio for his band.
Over the years, I have taken lots of people off the street and put them on successful stations. It's about their personality and how they sound. Learning the board takes about a day. If the person wants to do production and editing and the like, they can learn while the work.
There are still opportunities at small market stations, but much of what they do is not of value. But the issue today is the huge decline in radio revenue, not training. There just are no positions for anyone at most stations.
I like the concept, but I’d have serious concerns about how that would work in Auburn. There are many examples of small non-profit radio stations that serve a small chunk of a major market, but I think it may be pretty challenging in Auburn. I’m not sure what type of format would fit. It’s also debatable where the transmitter could be located.
I agree with everything you said here. I do think it’s possible for someone to get better at their presentation skill, but overall, radio appears to be the kind of job that you either have an aptitude for (or don’t). And that’s not to say that it’s an insult not to be a natural. I’ve come across many smart people who were curious about a career in radio, and then abandoned the idea after realizing that it’s not as easy as it sounds. Most of these folks were people I’ve met through college radio. Many got a chance to try it out, but not many felt comfortable enough behind the mic to pursue any sort of paid career.
Yep. "Personality" can't be learned. I've had lots of announcers with nice voices, friendly styles and all the other basics. But they did not have the ability to touch listeners with some kind of magnetism or empathy. You can not teach that.
I learned as an early teen that I did not have that. So I focused on how to manage, program and run a station.
To one with the skills (I married one!) each show and each time the mike opens it is fun and exciting. To me, it was a task. While not every air talent is the equivalent of Picasso or Dali or Rembrandt, most of us are "paint by numbers" and don't have the inspiration that makes listeners love them at the same time that it is fun for the talent!
That could apply to a lot of other 'skills' that college teaches, radio or no radio. Journalism courses are still taught at colleges, even though the jobs have dried up. In the 80's, journalism was a viable field. Today, when there are less than 46K journalists in a country that use to have 350K or more (in the 80's, the apex of journalist employment), journalism is just another semi-useless humanities degree.
Some of this is included in the linked GRCC report -- on page 10 it notes that news reporters, journalists, etc. will see a 3% decline in job openings between 2023-2033. I would say the job loss percentage would be more like 30%. In 2023 2000+ local newspapers folded in the US. Not good news for the news industry. The median pay shown in the GRCC report for journalists, of course, is set rather high. I don't know anyone who worked in journalism, personally, who made that much. Maybe some of the big names in TV news make a lot of money, but your average reporter for a local paper (providing they're still in business) doesn't make that much, and many of them never have.
College counsellors often tout a program telling you there will be lots of job opportunities when you graduate, and then you find that you're not only competing with thousands of other graduates in the same field when you get your degree, but either the vagaries of the economy, or tech has reduced the number of open jobs. The 30% of job listings being non-existent, 'ghost jobs' of course doesn't help, either.
And some of the more technical fields like software coding will soon see job losses due to AI. We all know how college degrees have less value in the employment arena than they did in the 1990's, when the value was less than it was in the 1970's.
It's a tough time for radio, and also a tough time for colleges these days. KGRG-1 and KGRG were, in a sense, hit by a double whammy.
Sad to see the plug pulled on KGRG-1 and KGRG, though.
I completely agree. I think colleges and universities do need to take some responsibility for promoting degrees that have no tangible value in the job market. I know some people who actually studied at GRCC, and ended up pursing education in certain subjects that meet this criteria. Of course, that can be the case at any educational institution (and frankly, I’d rather get a degree at a community college in something not useful as opposed to waste tons of money at a more expensive school). While I’m not sure that if lump KGRG completely into this category (since I can think of worse examples), I do understand the issue here. Not only is the value in getting a broadcasting degree bottoming out, but there’s a significant cost overhead of operating two radio stations and paying for more than just the staff members to teach broadcasting related courses.
I think that GRCC felt that it was (justifiably) time to wind down their broadcasting program, and were probably looking for an excuse to eliminate all of the extra expenses that were associated with KGRG.