KHJ

[michael hagerty]

I have to agree with Michael Hagarty. During the Drake era, KHJ was the flagship, and naturally the innovator. But from 73 on, KFRC was the better station, in my opinion. In the late 70s (I think, Michael would remember the year) they morphed into a top 40-soul-funk format that was terrific, and somewhat imitated by KMEL a few years later. As a listener in those days, I would often think that they would have been unbeatable if they had an FM stereo signal. So it wasn't just the delayed dominance of FM in the Bay Area that made KFRC great

Llew: It was 1981. Gerry Cagle replaced Les Garland as PD...tried maintaining the Garland approach and then after a few weeks or months, went off on his own concept. If I remember, everyone except Dr. Don was shown the door, Marvelous Mark was brought back from Boston along with Harry Nelson, Dave Sholin returned from his corporate RKO music gig and Bill Lee came in from Hartford-New Haven.

And by the way, it sounded great in AM Stereo!

---Michael Hagerty

 

[calguy]

I have to agree with Michael Hagarty. During the Drake era, KHJ was the flagship, and naturally the innovator. But from 73 on, KFRC was the better station, in my opinion. In the late 70s (I think, Michael would remember the year) they morphed into a top 40-soul-funk format that was terrific, and somewhat imitated by KMEL a few years later. As a listener in those days, I would often think that they would have been unbeatable if they had an FM stereo signal. So it wasn't just the delayed dominance of FM in the Bay Area that made KFRC great

Llew: It was 1981. Gerry Cagle replaced Les Garland as PD...tried maintaining the Garland approach and then after a few weeks or months, went off on his own concept. If I remember, everyone except Dr. Don was shown the door, Marvelous Mark was brought back from Boston along with Harry Nelson, Dave Sholin returned from his corporate RKO music gig and Bill Lee came in from Hartford-New Haven.

And by the way, it sounded great in AM Stereo!

---Michael Hagerty

Actually Marvelous Mark came back earlier than that pushing Terry Nelson who came to 610 from KFI out of the midday slot he was in to 10 to 2 at night. Terry eventually left for Sacramento in Feb 1980 to program KXOA. Harry came in a bit later than that.

 

[doublecashkgb]

Hunter: You've been successful in finding two individuals who agree with you, however they are clearly discussing post 1973 KHJ versus KFRC. I actually tend to agree that overall, in the post 1973 era KFRC was a more consistent radio station. AM Top 40 stations peaked by the early 70's, fragmentation and erosion set in at a fairly rapid pace.

KFRC was an exception as explained previously, plus it was a very good radio station. But in the peak years of Top 40 KHJ clearly was the best. Now some people will argue that WABC, WLS, or WFIL was the best. They were close, highly influential & each reflected their market. KFRC simply doesn't belong in that class. They borrowed almost exclusively from KHJ and were fed jocks via the Drake network of consulted stations. Plus, I would argue that all KFRC jocks were waiting for their chance to work at KHJ. Even in the late 70's it was the place to be.
You speak of KFRC circa 1983, it was basically on the critical list, Lee & Armstrong never had the kind of numbers there that would impress anyone except jocks who admired their style.

 

[LKellerIII]

Michael Hagerty said: "Llew: It was 1981. Gerry Cagle replaced Les Garland as PD...tried maintaining the Garland approach and then after a few weeks or months, went off on his own concept. If I remember, everyone except Dr. Don was shown the door, Marvelous Mark was brought back from Boston along with Harry Nelson, Dave Sholin returned from his corporate RKO music gig and Bill Lee came in from Hartford-New Haven. And by the way, it sounded great in AM Stereo!"

Thanks for providing the history, Michael. I remember that when KMEL flipped from AOR to their modified "All Hit" CHR format (again, you would probably remember the year) - Marvelous Mark was involved, on-air at least. I don't know - but wondered then and now - if he was involved in programming KMEL at that time.

Doublecash said: "You speak of KFRC circa 1983, it was basically on the critical list, Lee & Armstrong never had the kind of numbers there that would impress anyone except jocks who admired their style."

And they impressed NON-jock radio-fans like me who also admired their style.

 

[davideduardo]

When KFRC was at its best (1973-1983), none of the above stations were at theirs.

KFRC was at its best when it launched closely following the flip of KHJ from MOR to Top 40. KHJ and KFRC had two of the KPOI Poi Boys, Ron Jacobs and Tom Rounds, as PDs and KFRC blew away the existing Top 40's like KEWB in a matter of a few months. Rounds, as some may know, went on to create American Top 40 with Jaclobs and Casey, a move which was most significant as being the first viable case of program syndication by barter, which is now pretty much the model.

 

[Hunter]

I have to agree with Michael Hagarty. During the Drake era, KHJ was the flagship, and naturally the innovator. But from 73 on, KFRC was the better station, in my opinion. In the late 70s (I think, Michael would remember the year) they morphed into a top 40-soul-funk format that was terrific, and somewhat imitated by KMEL a few years later. As a listener in those days, I would often think that they would have been unbeatable if they had an FM stereo signal. So it wasn't just the delayed dominance of FM in the Bay Area that made KFRC great

I don't want to get off subject, but as a side note, KMEL used to be KFRC FM in the mid 70's and played a constant automated countdown of the current top 20, but it never caught on. A consultant suggested to RKO that FM would never amount to much in the bay area due to terrain issues, so they sold the station with a 5 year non compete to a new company who took it Top Tracks AOR. Ironic that RKO would give up the signal that eventually would bring KFRC down.

 

[Hunter]

Now some people will argue that WABC, WLS, or WFIL was the best. They were close, highly influential & each reflected their market. KFRC simply doesn't belong in that class.

Thanks for your amusing opinion.

I would argue that all KFRC jocks were waiting for their chance to work at KHJ. Even in the late 70's it was the place to be.

Yes, for those who wanted to work in LA, market #2.

You speak of KFRC circa 1983, it was basically on the critical list, Lee & Armstrong never had the kind of numbers there that would impress anyone except jocks who admired their style.

The station was having challenges, due to market changes, formatics, and especially FM fragmentation, not lack of talent by BL, JA, DDR or anyone else.

 

[briancraig]

---When KFRC was at its best (1973-1983), none of the above stations were at theirs.---

WLS remained very strong into the early 1980s despite FM competition.

I'd put Larry Lujack, John Landecker, Bob Sirott, Yvonne Daniels, Tommy Edwards etc. up against anyone on KFRC or KHJ from that era.

 

[wgliradio]

Never been to any of those four cities, but through the magic of airchecks, have heard WLS, WCFL, WKNR, CKLW, WFIL, WIBG, WINS, WMCA, WABC, WOR-FM (and later 99X). All great radio stations. And while I'm a huge KFRC fan, I will grant you (and DoublecashKGB) this: KFRC's peak was accentuated by the fact that it occurred during the decline of AM Top 40 elsewhere. When KFRC was at its best (1973-1983), none of the above stations were at theirs.

WABC was thru 1978, WLS thru 1980, and while the others came earlier there is no doubting their greatness and contributions.

KFRC was a great station as well. I was never a huge KHJ fan (except for Charlie Tuna).

 

[jrplbg]

---Michael Hagerty

Are you the Michael Hagerty that used to hang out on Compuserve?

 

[doublecashkgb]

Now some people will argue that WABC, WLS, or WFIL was the best. They were close, highly influential & each reflected their market. KFRC simply doesn't belong in that class.

Thanks for your amusing opinion. ---Ha Ha. I'm glad you're amused by the truth.

I would argue that all KFRC jocks were waiting for their chance to work at KHJ. Even in the late 70's it was the place to be.

Yes, for those who wanted to work in LA, market #2. ---Let's see, would they jump at a gig at KIIS in 1978, nope, KPOL I doubt it, KRLA-never. No the winner is "they wanted to work at 5515 Melrose" end of story.

You speak of KFRC circa 1983, it was basically on the critical list, Lee & Armstrong never had the kind of numbers there that would impress anyone except jocks who admired their style.

The station was having challenges, due to market changes, formatics, and especially FM fragmentation, not lack of talent by BL, JA, DDR or anyone else.---Well gosh I am sorry they had so many challenges but I thought to be "the best station of all time" you had to be dominant with listeners, I mean I loved Ten Q's jocks and style, but they never added up to good ratings (probably because it was too late for AM Top 40 in Los Angeles)

 

[michael hagerty]

---Michael Hagerty

Are you the Michael Hagerty that used to hang out on Compuserve?

Nope. Compuserve was before my online time.

---Michael Hagerty

 

[michael hagerty]

Now some people will argue that WABC, WLS, or WFIL was the best. They were close, highly influential & each reflected their market. KFRC simply doesn't belong in that class.

Thanks for your amusing opinion. ---Ha Ha. I'm glad you're amused by the truth.

I would argue that all KFRC jocks were waiting for their chance to work at KHJ. Even in the late 70's it was the place to be.

Yes, for those who wanted to work in LA, market #2. ---Let's see, would they jump at a gig at KIIS in 1978, nope, KPOL I doubt it, KRLA-never. No the winner is "they wanted to work at 5515 Melrose" end of story.

You speak of KFRC circa 1983, it was basically on the critical list, Lee & Armstrong never had the kind of numbers there that would impress anyone except jocks who admired their style.

The station was having challenges, due to market changes, formatics, and especially FM fragmentation, not lack of talent by BL, JA, DDR or anyone else.---Well gosh I am sorry they had so many challenges but I thought to be "the best station of all time" you had to be dominant with listeners, I mean I loved Ten Q's jocks and style, but they never added up to good ratings (probably because it was too late for AM Top 40 in Los Angeles)

A piece at a time:

While KFRC was dominant in San Francisco for 15 years or more, and did reflect its market, it was not influential in the way WABC, WLS and WFIL were. It was a clone of KHJ and KGB (tweaked a bit for the market) from 1966 until 1972 or so (Sebastian Stone actually started throwing away the Drake rules before Michael Spears arrived in '73)....and though almost everyone I've met loved the sound of the station, there weren't really stations that patterned themselves on the post-1973 KFRC sound the way WABC, WLS and WFIL were copied. So it does fail the influence test.

Were the jocks at KFRC itching for a shot at KHJ? The answer is clearly yes. Here's who made it:

Bill Wade
Chuck Browning
Mark Elliott
Dick Sainte
Charlie Van Dyke
Jim Carson (briefly)
Bobby Ocean
Beau Weaver
Shana
Sally Adams
Mucho Morales
Big Bob Anthony

And then there were Bobby Tripp and Pete McNeal, who left KYA for KHJ, rather than crossing the street to KFRC. And, of course, Michael Spears himself left KFRC for KHJ.

There were also near misses like John Mack Flanagan (who did a one-day fill-in and has said on the San Francisco board that he would have loved to have worked at KHJ) and Marvelous Mark (who was rumored to be heading for L.A. to replace the Gunner under Spears...never happened).

Let's not kid ourselves. Except maybe during the Sebastian era, and except maybe for DDR, any KFRC jock who got the call to KHJ would have been there the next day if they needed to be.

But was it an awesome station to listen to? Yes. Was it strong at a time when AM Top 40 was in decline? Yes. Did it make the most successful transition after Bill Drake's departure of any of the RKO stations? Yes.

---Michael Hagerty

 

[Surfer]

This thread screams volumes about what a great radio station can sound like. Get good air talent, don't patronize your listeners, and deliver a wide variety of music. Maybe that's why radio is dying. Listeners (or advertisers, for that matter) can't identify with a station that has no identity.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

This thread screams volumes about what a great radio station can sound like. Get good air talent, don't patronize your listeners, and deliver a wide variety of music. Maybe that's why radio is dying. Listeners (or advertisers, for that matter) can't identify with a station that has no identity.

Great post, Surfer! When most of us were young, before iPods, MTV, etc., we all could name the jocks and their shifts on each of our favorite stations...some of us (like me) listened regularly to at least 3 Top 40-type stations growing up in the 60s and 70s. I used to listen to each station's survey countdown and write them down-- Growing up in New Jersey, I regularly listened to WABC, WINS, WMCA, and WIBG in the 60s. Knew every DJ and when they were on. Compare that to the mostly nameless faceless "DJs" or Air Talent on today. Except for a few exceptions, how many of the typical KIIS-FM listener can name ALL the AT and shifts they're on (except for Ryan Seacrist)? Or more obscure, the lineup at Star 98.7 or Indie 103.1? Can the typical KOST listener name all the air talent like Mark & Kim; Mike Sakellirides et al? Times have changed indeed.

 

[LKellerIII]

This thread screams volumes about what a great radio station can sound like. Get good air talent, don't patronize your listeners, and deliver a wide variety of music. Maybe that's why radio is dying. Listeners (or advertisers, for that matter) can't identify with a station that has no identity.

Great post, Surfer! When most of us were young, before iPods, MTV, etc., we all could name the jocks and their shifts on each of our favorite stations...some of us (like me) listened regularly to at least 3 Top 40-type stations growing up in the 60s and 70s. I used to listen to each station's survey countdown and write them down-- Growing up in New Jersey, I regularly listened to WABC, WINS, WMCA, and WIBG in the 60s. Knew every DJ and when they were on. Compare that to the mostly nameless faceless "DJs" or Air Talent on today. Except for a few exceptions, how many of the typical KIIS-FM listener can name ALL the AT and shifts they're on (except for Ryan Seacrist)? Or more obscure, the lineup at Star 98.7 or Indie 103.1? Can the typical KOST listener name all the air talent like Mark & Kim; Mike Sakellirides et al? Times have changed indeed.

For me, it was KHJ, KRLA, KFWB, and other stations like KBLA or KDAY, depending on the year. But I think we need to remember that we who post on this website are a self-selecting sample - as kids and adults, we loved radio for the jocks, the contests, the jingles, etc. - and not just the music. The "typical" Top 40 listnener of my age in would probably remember that their favorite radio station growing up was KHJ or KRLA, but I bet only a few could name a favorite jock of that era - The Real Don Steele, Charlie Tuna, Emperor Hudson, Bob Eubanks, or whoever.

As for the current state of radio: betweeen "less talk," long music sets with those pre-recorded bumpers between songs, and constant liner-card reading - the jocks don't have much opportunity to ad-lib, or showcase their personality.

 

[Hotseat]

KHJ these days is the #3 AM in the market 12+. Whatever that's worth.

 

[LKellerIII]

"KHJ these days is the #3 AM in the market 12+. Whatever that's worth."

I'm not sure that's worth anything, considering that KHJ is the 5th rated Spanish language station (the others are all FM), and considering AM stations do so badly in LA in general.

I guess that having slightly higher ratings than the 2 English language news stations - KFWB and KNX - says something, but I think it's more an indication of how poorly those 2 CBS stations are doing.

 

[michael hagerty]

It is funny, though, to look at the AM 12+ rankings today and see (apart from KFI's dominance and KABC's 2nd place among AMs), nearly a mirror image of L.A. AM Radio in 1967: KHJ in the lead, with KNX, KFWB and KRLA all somewhere behind.

And how ironic that KHJ is 0.1 ahead of Charlie Tuna's current home...KBIG.

---Michael Hagerty

 

[davideduardo]

"KHJ these days is the #3 AM in the market 12+. Whatever that's worth."

I'm not sure that's worth anything, considering that KHJ is the 5th rated Spanish language station (the others are all FM), and considering AM stations do so badly in LA in general.

Actually, KHJ is the 7th rated Spanish station 12+, with the rank order being KSCA, KLVE, KLAX, KBUE, KXOL, KRCD, and then KHJ way behind. On 25-54, the rank is KSCA, KLVE, KLAX, KBUE, KRCD, KLYY, KSSE, KXOL and then KHJ tied with KTNQ. In 25-54, KHJ has approximately one fifth of the numbers of the #1 station.

There are nearly no Spanish ad buys for older demos, as the sub-market is so young.