KIRO Shakeup

[SeattleRadioPro]

KIRO died when they lost the Mariners, lost programming geniuses Ken Berry and Kris Olinger. There's NOTHING that Bonneville could ever do in a million years to bring KIRO back to 10 shares. For the AM's, it will be a horse race between KOMO, KTTH, KPTK, KJR, and KVI for 25-54.

KIRO was once just like KGO under berry/olinger with 6 shares, but clendening/beck/preidmore went to lifestyle talk with no success. Not the first time lifestyle talk has failed on AM, KOMO tried it with Scott/Dr Laura/Dr Joy Browne/Weissbaum/Art Bell at 3pm.

Now KIRO has even more problems with dayparts, with 7pm-5am essentially with no formally announced permanent replacement hosts.

Ron Reagan should be on KIRO middays NOON-2, he does well with women listeners, with Dori Monson 2-5, Tony Miner 5-7, Ron and Don 7-10, and Bryan Styble 10-1. OK, I live in albuquerque so I have a bias for Styble who was on KKNS down here and had a huge following! Nice guy!

Tony needs to start his news at 5, just one hour starting at 6 is a waste of his talents. And ratings drop after 6, so why even bother. Just start Tony at 5.

Overnights, re-runs of Dave Ross is terrible programming, so how about Rollye James?

Or, if they can afford it, and Turi wants to work all night, Turi Ryder all night would be my first choice over Rollye James.

Or, Turi from 10p-1p, and Styble from 1a-5a. Bryan would probably prefer the deep overnight shift.

Bottom line: KIRO needs to stop firing hosts and take advantage of their weekends folks to get weekday ratings, or 1090 will continue neck and neck.

I gotta tell you, we're REALLY enjoying these out of towners weighing in on KIRO, spewing their opinions based on Google searches. They're making us laugh harder than we usually do reading this board!

But that Southwest heat must really be intense! What else could explain calling Berry and Olinger "programming geniuses" and heaping praise in Styble, the poster child for "people with dead radio careers"?

 

[JPPatches]

They're making us laugh harder than we usually do reading this board!

Of course it's easier to laugh and deny than face reality and weep. We'll talk next spring when you're still sitting with a 3 share against an all news station that can't get it right even WITH baseball. Yep the AZ poster is incorrect as Berry/Olinger were Entercom fodder. But at least yesteryears Bonneville crowd pulled double digits. You can try and downplay that all you want. Oh and BTW, NW native here. Seen the rise and fall of the mighty 710 over the last 25 years and how the mighty have fallen...and can't get up. At least not with the recent changes. See ya next spring and we'll chat.

 

[LAallnews]

LAallnews...like I said, I've never listened to "Nightside" on KSL and you speculate, as did I, on the show's content. Tonight's lineup:
http://nightside.ksl.com/

Will it work in Seattle?

Over-produced imaging, under-produced content. Same old stuff -- what some old guy thinks is hip and young sounding. I agree with one of other other people who posted, I don't think this would even work in SLC.

 

[LAallnews]

KIRO died when they lost the Mariners, lost programming geniuses Ken Berry and Kris Olinger. There's NOTHING that Bonneville could ever do in a million years to bring KIRO back to 10 shares. For the AM's, it will be a horse race between KOMO, KTTH, KPTK, KJR, and KVI for 25-54.

KIRO was once just like KGO under berry/olinger with 6 shares, but clendening/beck/preidmore went to lifestyle talk with no success. Not the first time lifestyle talk has failed on AM, KOMO tried it with Scott/Dr Laura/Dr Joy Browne/Weissbaum/Art Bell at 3pm.

Berry/Olinger/Clendening/Beck all got to KIRO too late to do anything other than try to hang on to a declining share. Other people built the 15 years or so of KIRO's ratings dominance in the market. Failure to develop compelling content for a changing and more competitive market -- and failure to protect key franchises killed KIRO's ratings. In the old days, deals were done in exclusive negotiating periods before competitors like KOMO could even make a crazy bid. (That's why KOMO has had UW sports so often -- public university has to have an open bidding process.)

 

[AZcowgirl]

Well, I'll admit that it's a little warm down here. But, for the record:

1. I'm a native of Rain City and can still remember my Mom listening Bob Hardwick, who referred to Seattle in those days as, "the Queen City". Who knows where THAT came from- it was dropped from the lexicon to be replaced first by "Jet City' and, finally, "Emerald City".

2. Don't have the energy to reread my earlier post, but if I said Berry and Olinger were Bonneville people, that is NOT what I mean. Of course they were Entercom.

3. I for sure did not call KB or CO "geniuses"- but I think that both of them were decent programmers, especially Chris.

 

[ABQTom]

Quotes from LAnews:

"Berry/Olinger/Clendening/Beck all got to KIRO too late to do anything other than try to hang on to a declining share."

I would disagree, KIRO had the Mariners and a thriving N/T format under Berry/Olinger, but certainly it's possible that you know something that I don't know.

"Other people built the 15 years or so of KIRO's ratings dominance in the market."

Absolutely, and that was maintained until they lost the mariners to KOMO.

"Failure to develop compelling content for a changing and more competitive market -- and failure to protect key franchises killed KIRO's ratings."

I would re-phrase that to - failure to renew the contracts of hosts providing good ratings - like Mike Webb and Lou Pete. I mean, they fire Webb, and Malloy of all people on kptk 1090 beats Webb's substitutes. And, since webb's firing KIRO STILL has not fornally announced a permanent host for 9p-1a. Last time I saw the KIRO-AM web site a few weeks ago it was Turi Ryder, before that it was Frank Shiers.

And, no permanent host since Pete's departure either, 1a-5a. The Midnight truckers network in a blue city with a high creative class score (Richard Florida) and lots of high tech industry? Get in touch with reality. Ridiculous, it's poor management, not to mention all of Ken Beck's tabloid lifestyle talk (like Ron/Don, Shiers, etc.) that doesn't sell. Surveying an audience for opinions on a local issue like dog ordinances for 1-2 hours doesn't get ratings. They even did this with Prell 9a-NOON, who sometimes went to 2 hours with the same topic. That might work on the old KDWN in Vegas, but not in Seattle!!!

J.P. - yes indeed, we'll watch and see what happens in the spring.

 

[LAallnews]

Quotes from LAnews:

"Berry/Olinger/Clendening/Beck all got to KIRO too late to do anything other than try to hang on to a declining share."

I would disagree, KIRO had the Mariners and a thriving N/T format under Berry/Olinger, but certainly it's possible that you know something that I don't know.

"Failure to develop compelling content for a changing and more competitive market -- and failure to protect key franchises killed KIRO's ratings."

I would re-phrase that to - failure to renew the contracts of hosts providing good ratings - like Mike Webb and Lou Pete. I mean, they fire Webb, and Malloy of all people on kptk 1090 beats Webb's substitutes. And, since webb's firing KIRO STILL has not fornally announced a permanent host for 9p-1a. Last time I saw the KIRO-AM web site a few weeks ago it was Turi Ryder, before that it was Frank Shiers.

ABQTom,

I think if you'll review the ratings you'll see about '95 (that would have been during Clendening's first visit) news and talk shares were declining, steadily, especially in the demos. That made the station very dependent on the sports franchises for that extra distance between the competition. It may have been inevitable, but fairly quickly after that time dominance turned into just hanging on 12+ -- and continued decline 25-54, men 35+. The M's pushed it over the edge.

By compelling content, I'm talking about something broader than night talk hosts. I don't know Webb, I've heard Pate, Shires, and Turi -- but 9-1a is not going to drive that radio station. The battle is already lost. What happened to a news franchise that -- in it's day -- had a stronger image than TV? It's sort of sad. At one time, that station was a must listen -- 1 out 3 people in Seattle turned it in.

 

[Faraway]

Ron Reagan should be on KIRO middays NOON-2, he does well with women listeners, with Dori Monson 2-5, Tony Miner 5-7, Ron and Don 7-10, and Bryan Styble 10-1. OK, I live in albuquerque so I have a bias for Styble who was on KKNS down here and had a huge following! Nice guy! Tony needs to start his news at 5, just one hour starting at 6 is a waste of his talents. And ratings drop after 6, so why even bother. Just start Tony at 5.Overnights, re-runs of Dave Ross is terrible programming, so how about Rollye James? Or, if they can afford it, and Turi wants to work all night, Turi Ryder all night would be my first choice over Rollye James.Or, Turi from 10p-1p, and Styble from 1a-5a. Bryan would probably prefer the deep overnight shift.

I just don't know where to start. Like them or not, Ross, Monson and especially Ron and Don are the big ratings winners (actually, El Rushbo on KTTH is the big winner but I digress...). It's usually considered a good programming practice to put your strongest shows in the best dayparts. Ron and Don at night? I don't particularly care for them either - but it's my understanding they are highly rated. So why change them out?

ABQ credibility drops further with his line about Bryan having a huge following in Alb,...at a station that has never shown up in the ratings!

But the coup de grace...sugesting Rollye or Turi...their careers haven't exactly been on fire lately...may be a reason for that!

 

[searadiofreak]

Well, I'll admit that it's a little warm down here. But, for the record:

1. I'm a native of Rain City and can still remember my Mom listening Bob Hardwick, who referred to Seattle in those days as, "the Queen City". Who knows where THAT came from- it was dropped from the lexicon to be replaced first by "Jet City' and, finally, "Emerald City".

2. Don't have the energy to reread my earlier post, but if I said Berry and Olinger were Bonneville people, that is NOT what I mean. Of course they were Entercom.

3. I for sure did not call KB or CO "geniuses"- but I think that both of them were decent programmers, especially Chris.

Funny about the nicknames for Seattle. Yes, The Queen City did exist, way back before Seattle had a large gay population...no relationship there.

The Jet City moniker was the coolest...I think started with the SST program at Boeing, but continued into the 70's with the 747.

I never liked the "Emerald City". Nobody in Seattle ever uses it, the only time you hear it is in intros to sports broadcasts!

I vote to bring back "Jet City". Queensryche was right on target. Boeing, while moving a few hundred upper management people to Chicago, still is Seattle/Everett's most prolific employer. Come on, Seattle media, bring it back...it's COOL!

 

[ABQTom]

Quoting LA news:

"ABQTom,

"I think if you'll review the ratings you'll see about '95 (that would have been during Clendening's first visit) news and talk shares were declining, steadily, especially in the demos. That made the station very dependent on the sports franchises for that extra distance between the competition. It may have been inevitable, but fairly quickly after that time dominance turned into just hanging on 12+ -- and continued decline 25-54, men 35+. The M's pushed it over the edge."

Too bad that KIRO had problems so long ago, I'm not familiar with those ratings.

"By compelling content, I'm talking about something broader than night talk hosts. I don't know Webb, I've heard Pate, Shires, and Turi -- but 9-1a is not going to drive that radio station. The battle is already lost. What happened to a news franchise that -- in it's day -- had a stronger image than TV? It's sort of sad. At one time, that station was a must listen -- 1 out 3 people in Seattle turned it in."

Agree - 7pm-5am isn't nearly as important as daylight hours but it does play a role. Constantly firing and rotating hosts through those nightime hours isn't a good way to run a radio station. I don't think Olinger/Berry would have dumped Webb and I'm sure that Pete would still be there. Webb and Pete were beating Art Bell.

QUOTING SEA RADIO FREAK

"ABQ credibility drops further with his line about Bryan having a huge following in Alb,...at a station that has never shown up in the ratings!"

you guys don't like Styble up there, I'm not sure why. Bryan's exceptionally talented, started radio in high school, and has a career at heritage stations and he's got credible references. Lots of people are probably jealous like that blatherwatch creep.

"But the coup de grace...sugesting Rollye or Turi...their careers haven't exactly been on fire lately...may be a reason for that!"

Turi has said many times on the air that she is raising a family. she just added more archives to her web site
http://turiryder.com

Rollye James is one of the most caller friendly talk hosts in the industry, whether you agree with her somewhat conspiratorial style or not. I wouldn't suggest Rollye for overnights on KIRO, maybe for KTTH, however, She does better in more conservative smaller and medium sized markets like Albuquerque.

 

[equalinercard]

ABQ:

Not sure if you were at Hempfest, but, in 1995 & 1996 KIRO was #1 12+ AND #1 25-54. Not sure how you figure they were declining when they were #1. Look it up.

Then, in 1997, KIRO was bought by Entercom and the long decline began.

If you want to take a little google time, look it up. Or just post your opinions and your inaccurate information.

BTW:

1. Rollye James has NEVER gotten decent ratings ANYWHERE.

2. Turi Ryder had good ratings in Minneapolis in the late 80s. She hasn't had decent ratings or even a full-time radio job ANYWHERE since then.

3. And, I kind of enjoy a little bit of Bryan Styble too. But Styble had a very brief stint doing overnights on WJR in Detroit (a few months, and then fired) and then was out of work for several years before landing at an unrated station in New Mexico (the station folded). Now, very limited part-time at KIRO. You may think he's the s--t, but Dave and Dori aren't worried about Styble taking their jobs.

 

[LAallnews]

ABQ:

Not sure if you were at Hempfest, but, in 1995 & 1996 KIRO was #1 12+ AND #1 25-54. Not sure how you figure they were declining when they were #1. Look it up.

You may be looking at the ratings in the wrong way. A station like KIRO at that time can be declining and still be number 1. I think if you study the numbers, you'll see signs the station's non-sports product was declining, making it all the more important to keep the sports franchises. It's not an easy situation to be in -- a good programmer will see the need to change/evolve but doesn't want to kill the golden goose.

 

[djdan]

A quick check of the numbers shows KIRO dominating when they had the Mariners. Book to book there were variations, primarily driven by baseball, but overall the station was number one 25-54 and top three in morning drive book to book and year to year. After losing the Mariners KIRO began to slip out of the top ten. KOMO got the Mariner numbers, but has remained out of the top ten in prime demos in prime dayparts.

Over the past year KIRO's talk shows of Dave, Dori, Ron and Don have moved back into the top ten and the station, outside of nights, have been on a three book increase. In the last trend these shows were among the top three in the market in each daypart. Bonneville seems to recognize the success and has capitalized on it. Add Mariners and KIRO becomes number one again, by far.

My bet is KOMO keeps the Mariners and takes one or two of KIRO's talk talent that are now rating well. That would make them number one overall and in prime day-parts. The Mariners and the three growing talk shows will determine which of the AM's win.

A side note is that as the KIRO talk shows have gained strength, the other AM talk stations have declined. Even Rush is not delivering the numbers he did two years ago.

Good battle for number one on AM. Will KIRO get the Mariners and win it all or will KOMO keep the Mariners, grab Ross or Dori and win it all? If KIRO does indeed simulcast on an FM that makes it even more a battle.

 

[Faraway]

A quick check of the numbers shows KIRO dominating when they had the Mariners. Book to book there were variations, primarily driven by baseball, but overall the station was number one 25-54 and top three in morning drive book to book and year to year. After losing the Mariners KIRO began to slip out of the top ten. KOMO got the Mariner numbers, but has remained out of the top ten in prime demos in prime dayparts.

Over the past year KIRO's talk shows of Dave, Dori, Ron and Don have moved back into the top ten and the station, outside of nights, have been on a three book increase. In the last trend these shows were among the top three in the market in each daypart. Bonneville seems to recognize the success and has capitalized on it. Add Mariners and KIRO becomes number one again, by far.

My bet is KOMO keeps the Mariners and takes one or two of KIRO's talk talent that are now rating well. That would make them number one overall and in prime day-parts. The Mariners and the three growing talk shows will determine which of the AM's win.

A side note is that as the KIRO talk shows have gained strength, the other AM talk stations have declined. Even Rush is not delivering the numbers he did two years ago.

Good battle for number one on AM. Will KIRO get the Mariners and win it all or will KOMO keep the Mariners, grab Ross or Dori and win it all? If KIRO does indeed simulcast on an FM that makes it even more a battle.

Maybe it IS because of Hempfest that the postings have been so ... interesting.

As for Rush bit "delivering" like he used to, you may want to check the latest Arbitron. He had one of his best books in Seattle, and as I recall, the number one talk show in the market.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any large or major market station that had "double digits" a decade or two ago, anywhere near those lofty numbers today. In many cases, those stations may still be number one, but not like they used to. I don't think this is because programmers of big AM properties have suddenly become dumb. More likely, it's been a trend over the last 20 - 25 years - compression of numbers, meaning, it's not out of the realm of possibility that two share points split the top 10 - 15 stations. Entercomm may have made some poor decisions, but the trend was set before Bonneville sold...which when you think of it, may be why they sold...see high, buy low.... which is why Bonneville is too smart let any of their top talent get away - especially after seeing what happened when Entercomm let the Mariners go.

 

[djdan]

Rush is not performing like he did a couple of years ago 25-54. At one time he was number one in the market 9a-12n. With the exception of the month of May and one good month in Fall, he is generally performing around 12th. On a four book he is not top ten in demo. Last book in core demo's he was not the top show. Several beat him, including Ron and Don, Ross and on FM BJ Shea, T-Man and Bob Rivers. All of these are talk shows with no music.

Don't get me wrong. He is still a factor 12+ and is one of the top talk shows on the radio, but no longer dominates like he did four to five years ago.

I agree that the days of "double digit" AM stations are gone and the market is compressed. I can imagine an AM station a top three player 25-54 in prime dayparts. KOMO could do it if they steal a KIRO talk host or two. KIRO could do it if they steal the Mariners back. For now, outside of Mariners games, no AM is top ten 6a-7p on a four book average in the Seattle market.

 

[AQH]

As for Rush bit "delivering" like he used to, you may want to check the latest Arbitron. He had one of his best books in Seattle, and as I recall, the number one talk show in the market.

Compared to what? His ratings have been declining for the past couple of years. Probably due to being caught doctor shopping and/or the rapid malcontent within the Republican party.

Rush's decline is not a landslide, just simple erosion. A little loss here and a little loss there adds up after awhile.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any large or major market station that had "double digits" a decade or two ago, anywhere near those lofty numbers today. In many cases, those stations may still be number one, but not like they used to. I don't think this is because programmers of big AM properties have suddenly become dumb. More likely, it's been a trend over the last 20 - 25 years - compression of numbers, meaning, it's not out of the realm of possibility that two share points split the top 10 - 15 stations. Entercomm may have made some poor decisions, but the trend was set before Bonneville sold...which when you think of it, may be why they sold...see high, buy low.... which is why Bonneville is too smart let any of their top talent get away - especially after seeing what happened when Entercomm let the Mariners go.

You're right about some N/T stations having "double digits" and not having them now. Look up KDKA, KMOX or WCCO for starters. They had them for awhile, but they don't now.

The media buffoonery displayed at a regular steady level nowadays (both on TV and radio) has given reason for people to look elsewhere for their information needs.

But the biggest reasoning doesn't solely fall upon the PD's shoulders. The primary reason is technology.

You don't need to tune into the radio anymore to get your news. Nowadays, people get it e-mailed to them from any of the cable outlets or simply look it up on the computer and/or PDA. Quicker, and people have the chance to look at the stories that interest them.

People will still tune into KIRO or KOMO for traffic reports and/or a quickie weather forecast. Those things you can't really do on the phone very well on the freeway (not that people don't do it anyway).

 

[AQH]

My bet is KOMO keeps the Mariners and takes one or two of KIRO's talk talent that are now rating well. That would make them number one overall and in prime day-parts. The Mariners and the three growing talk shows will determine which of the AM's win.

A side note is that as the KIRO talk shows have gained strength, the other AM talk stations have declined. Even Rush is not delivering the numbers he did two years ago.

Good battle for number one on AM. Will KIRO get the Mariners and win it all or will KOMO keep the Mariners, grab Ross or Dori and win it all? If KIRO does indeed simulcast on an FM that makes it even more a battle.

Unless the Mariners come down in price, KOMO won't pick up the Mariners again. They realized quickly that they paid way too much for them.

Bonneville back in the market is probably good news for the Mariners, as I'm sure they will be the beneficiary of a radio station desperately wanting them back.

 

[SeattleRadioPro]

Unless the Mariners come down in price, KOMO won't pick up the Mariners again. They realized quickly that they paid way too much for them.

Bonneville back in the market is probably good news for the Mariners, as I'm sure they will be the beneficiary of a radio station desperately wanting them back.

Absolutely right on the money, AQH. Fisher has a new CEO that's not from these parts, unlike the former head man who was more interested in pretty buildings and name recognition than profits.

If the Ms go from KOMO, that's the death knell for their all-news format, especially since the suits at AM 1000 are totally convinced it's their news product that's attracting listeners - not baseball.

 

[searadiofreak]

Wow! Lot's of speculation here. Anyone know how far out KOMO's M's contract goes?

While the KOMO CEO may not be from around these parts, he can't be stupid enough to realize what a loss it would be should the Mariners move. If he doesn't, he should not be in his position.

As for KOMO stealing KIRO's top talk talent? For what, to read news? If they did try this, then a format change would be in order for KOMO.

Bottom line: The M's are still in it this year, and winning on the field means winning on the radio. You can't bet this will happen every year.
But, for now, KOMO will almost certainly have a great summer book, and probably a good Fall one as well. Being within a few games of the Angels, then fighting for the wildcard, priceless!

There are two major AM players in Seattle, and KOMO and KIRO are it. KTTH and KVI are in the fight, but it comes down to KOMO and KIRO...the non-sports programming is important, but probably not the most critical issue that will drive ratings.

 

[ABQTom]

quoting equalinercard

"Not sure if you were at Hempfest, but, in 1995 & 1996 KIRO was #1 12+ AND #1 25-54.....If you want to take a little google time, look it up. Or just post your opinions and your inaccurate information..... Rollye James has NEVER gotten decent ratings ANYWHERE....Turi Ryder had good ratings in Minneapolis in the late 80s. She hasn't had decent ratings or even a full-time radio job ANYWHERE since then....."

Just riduclous. I haven't posted any inaccurate info. I never said Rollye had high ratings in fact I don't know her ratings. Whether Turi has ever had good ratings since whenever is irrelevant to the points I was making. I don't live there or attend your ILLEGAL hempfests so I have no idea what you mean.

The MAIN POINT is that lifestyle talk under clendening/beck/pridemore and the hosts cancelled and rotated from 7pm-5am webb, pete, hart, etc. made things worse. Just talk to PD's and they'll agree w/ what I'm saying. I don't see how anyone could disagree w/ me that the lifestyle talk era on KIRO failed. That began after Olinger/Berry departed. They decided to put Prell 9-Noon, with Dave Ross drivetime. Big mistake. They didn't bring Ross back, and had Proccaccinno w/ Reagan on 9-NOON. Big mistake. As for the sports franchises, I can't respond since I don't know the situation well enough there.

rimember

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