KLIF OR WBAP-Which gets out farther

[sox fan matt]

..during the day? I know 570 is fuzzy towards Temple to protect 590 from Austin. KLIF'S 5,000 watts seem to get out far according to Radio Locator, but on the other hand I've heard WBAP in Round Rock during the day. Funny thing is WBAP has 50,000 watts.

Is RL not that trustworthy? Thoughts.

Matt

 

[rbrucecarter5]

WBAP is definitely stronger in Houston. Although KLIF is definitely listenable, but noticeably weaker than KTSA San Antonio.

In West Texas, KLIF is weaker than WBAP, although KSKY is almost as strong as WBAP.

 

[Mediafrog+]

570 doesn't protect 590 in Austin, too far apart for that. The 570 signal does have somewhat of a null to the north to protect co-channel WNAX Yankton, South Dakota, which is non-directional in an area with awesome ground conductivity. The KLIF null to the north is more pronounced at night.

In other directions, the signals are almost equal. 570 and 820 make it just across the border into the eastern New Mexico before fading out.

The longer wavelength on 570 helps make up for the power difference.

I have heard KSKY at noon in Tucumcari, New Mexico underneath KTNN, but no signal there at the same time from KLIF or WBAP. All three DFW stations are easily heard in Amarillo during daytime.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

570 doesn't protect 590 in Austin, too far apart for that. The 570 signal does have somewhat of a null to the north to protect co-channel WNAX Yankton, South Dakota, which is non-directional in an area with awesome ground conductivity. The KLIF null to the north is more pronounced at night.

In other directions, the signals are almost equal. 570 and 820 make it just across the border into the eastern New Mexico before fading out.

The longer wavelength on 570 helps make up for the power difference.

I have heard KSKY at noon in Tucumcari, New Mexico underneath KTNN, but no signal there at the same time from KLIF or WBAP. All three DFW stations are easily heard in Amarillo during daytime.

That null on KLIF is amazing at night. I heard it drop and probably WNAX come in while driving in line with the null on 121. Try it!

I heard WBAP on an old Delco car radio to almost Roswell in the 1960's. Pretty consistent on multiple trips at different times of the year. it pretty much faded when you went off the caprock. I have never hear KLIF (then WFAA) do that, although WFAA used to be stronger, it was listenable in Midland when it played music in the early 70's - quite striking signal strength.

Amarillo's KGNC is easily heard if you are far enough away from the local 700 and can null Shreveport. It is about the only West Texas station to make it into the Eastern part of the metroplex, although western sections you can hear KFYO 790 Lubbock.

My daughter's former babysitter lived in the null for KMKI. Sshe wondered why she was hearing WTMJ at night in her house. I confirmed the null driving up and down her street. The null lasted about 3 houses.

 

[richllewis]

At night in some places, the question is who can be picked up the farthest. WBAP with their 50,000 watt flame thrower can be heard farther than KLIF . That is not the question. The question at night is whether WBAP gets out farther than KRLD.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

At night in some places, the question is who can be picked up the farthest. WBAP with their 50,000 watt flame thrower can be heard farther than KLIF . That is not the question. The question at night is whether WBAP gets out farther than KRLD.

A night, unquestionably WBAP. KRLD, being a lot higher in frequency, has some significant issues. I have heard WBAP in California, Florida, parts of Michigan, just about everywhere I have traveled except New England. Not so KRLD.

 

[Lancer]

WBAP would reach out further in all directions - KRLD has a null to the northeast. WBAP is also lower in frequency than KRLD which helps.

 

[dfaulkner]

To the northeast, in Titus Co. TX, 570 sounds almost local during the day, weaker at night. Since 820's tower move in 1984 (?) they are weak during the day. They used to sound local. 1080 is almost as clear as 570 during the day. It's null to the northeast makes it weak at night.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

To the northeast, in Titus Co. TX, 570 sounds almost local during the day, weaker at night. Since 820's tower move in 1984 (?) they are weak during the day. They used to sound local. 1080 is almost as clear as 570 during the day. It's null to the northeast makes it weak at night.

KRLD's null doesn't show up on radio-locator.com. I assume they would have one to protect WTIC Hartford. Or whatever call letters they might have changed to on 1080.

The weaker reception on KLIF at night makes sense, because they need to protect WNAX.

A long time ago, I checked KLIF reception in Tulsa, it still had a respectable signal. At night, though, I bet Tulsa would be owned by WNAX.

 

[dfaulkner]

The 1080 in Hartford is what I've always that KRLD is protecting at night. Someone (I think it was an employee.) once said that, at night, KRLD goes every direction, except northeast. I don't travel much. But, that seems to be accurate. I've heard them clearly at night in Bandera (near San Antonio) & Iowa Park (near Wichita Falls.) A facebook friend recently wrote that he heard KRLD at night in Las Vegas.

 

[jd]

KRLD's null doesn't show up on radio-locator.com. I assume they would have one to protect WTIC Hartford. Or whatever call letters they might have changed to on 1080.

The Radio-Locator maps for nighttime coverage are drawn with ground conductivity in mind, and no predicted skywave is taken into account. Here are the patterns of the two stations from the FCC site which likewise don't show skywave contours but clearly indicate the mutual protection between them:

KRLD night http://transition.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/158701-74350.pdf

WTIC night http://transition.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/1413606-113644.pdf

Also worth noting is that WTIC is allowed to remain on their daytime non-directional patten until sunset at KRLD, and that's been going on for decades.

 

[fybush]

Also worth noting is that WTIC is allowed to remain on their daytime non-directional patten until sunset at KRLD, and that's been going on for decades.

As of about two years ago, that's no longer the case, thanks to another 1080 in Michigan that asked the FCC to reconsider that grandfathered extended-daytime operation at WTIC. Hartford now goes to night pattern at Hartford sunset.

(And yes, it's correct that WTIC and KRLD mutually protect each other and nothing else. That's typical of the old I-B clear channels, which typically had two DA-N or DA-1 facilities at opposite ends of the country offering mutual protection to each other at night. Other nearby examples include 1520 Oklahoma City, protecting and being protected by 1520 Buffalo NY, and KFAB Omaha/WBT Charlotte on 1110.)

 

[jd]

Also worth noting is that WTIC is allowed to remain on their daytime non-directional patten until sunset at KRLD, and that's been going on for decades.

As of about two years ago, that's no longer the case, thanks to another 1080 in Michigan that asked the FCC to reconsider that grandfathered extended-daytime operation at WTIC. Hartford now goes to night pattern at Hartford sunset.

I was going by the Memorandum Opinion and Order from 2008, which specified that WTIC's license was changed to reflect that it would receive protection only to their groundwave signal during the "extended daytime operation."

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=10301

There wasn't any mention of them changing to the night pattern at Hartford sunset in there, or anywhere else I've seen. Did things change due to some later MO&O?

 

[gbranch]

The 1080 in Hartford is what I've always that KRLD is protecting at night. Someone (I think it was an employee.) once said that, at night, KRLD goes every direction, except northeast. I don't travel much. But, that seems to be accurate. I've heard them clearly at night in Bandera (near San Antonio) & Iowa Park (near Wichita Falls.) A facebook friend recently wrote that he heard KRLD at night in Las Vegas.

WBAP and KRLD, along with WOAI and KOKC, all boom in like locals at night into the Four Corners. They are as clear as KOA. KRLD is much stronger at night in Durango, CO than Longview, TX.

 

[schmave]

KRLD's null doesn't show up on radio-locator.com. I assume they would have one to protect WTIC Hartford. Or whatever call letters they might have changed to on 1080.

The Radio-Locator maps for nighttime coverage are drawn with ground conductivity in mind, and no predicted skywave is taken into account. Here are the patterns of the two stations from the FCC site which likewise don't show skywave contours but clearly indicate the mutual protection between them:

KRLD night http://transition.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/158701-74350.pdf

WTIC night http://transition.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/1413606-113644.pdf

Also worth noting is that WTIC is allowed to remain on their daytime non-directional patten until sunset at KRLD, and that's been going on for decades.

I think KRLD's null at night is softer than that map indicated. I've read reports on here that KRLD is easily heard in Arkansas at night and has been heard as far northeast as west-central Kentucky. I heard it once here in Columbus, Ohio one night in January 2007, but that was before KRLD went to night pattern (around 6:45 p.m. ET).

 

[Triple Fake Jerry]

The northeast null on KRLD is probably to protect KAAY out of Little Rock, which is on 1090 (but I don't think they power up to 50K at night anymore).

Underneath KLIF north of Dallas, I can hear the time signal of WWV. Weird.

 

[jd]

The northeast null on KRLD is probably to protect KAAY out of Little Rock, which is on 1090 (but I don't think they power up to 50K at night anymore).

Like Scott mentioned KRLD protects WTIC only. KAAY has a very sharp null in their pattern pointing right toward KRLD.

You're right about KAAY not running 50kW at night; they have been operating with an STA that expires in November but may be extended again. That STA allows them to operate with no more than 12.5kW non-directional while repairs are being made. There's been some talk, however, that they may be running as little as 5kW at times.

 

[charles123]

Who cares which station gets out farther, they're both boring to me.

 

[600kogo]

By the way KLIF 570 has to protect (and vice versa) 560 KLVI in Beaumont as well. KLVI is a 5 kw NDA day time and 5kw 4 tower DA night.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

By the way KLIF 570 has to protect (and vice versa) 560 KLVI in Beaumont as well. KLVI is a 5 kw NDA day time and 5kw 4 tower DA night.

It is KLVI that protects KLIF day and night. I remember when KLIF was WFAA and played music, even on a wideband C-Quam stereo radio 570 would be absolutely clear as far south as Conroe, only to be increasingly attacked by 10 kHz heterodyne south of Conroe. Other than that, it would have had acceptable stereo even in Houston, and still did on AM stereo radios where you could null KLVI.