KLOS Sold - Now it's a Fact!

[CTListener]

One of the things I can count on year in and year out on this board is the animus directed at satellite radio or frankly any other medium that is not heard on the AM/FM dial whenever it is brought up. I admit that I like rock radio. Since I was told earlier on this thread that "rock is rock" and there should be no difference paid to the actual type of rock music played, I did a comparison. Local rock radio comprises of KCBS-FM, KLOS, KRTH (Rock/Pop blend), KYSR, KROQ, and KCSN - six stations in total, all of which have narrow playlists and high commercial load, except for KCSN. KCSN does have a large playlist and few commercials, but can only be heard in the most specific of locales.

Sirius has (count 'em!) 23 channels devoted exclusively to rock music in one form or another, all with broader playlists than local radio can support and no commercials. This count doesn't even include the channels that are pop/rock mixes such as the five decades channels and the PopRocks channel, nor does it include the online-only channels such as Yacht Rock and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (which can easily be played via the phone if one were so inclined).

But I am told that this is a niche product and the local broadcasters needn't worry about it as competition.

I've been an XM subscriber since 2003. I also am not in the radio industry. I have no dog in this fight, no personal animus. I just can't see, realistically, why terrestrial radio should be dreading "competition" from a rival delivery system that has only found 30 million users (probably less in terms of actual listeners given the New York sharpies' at SXM's way of cooking the "subscriber" numbers to barely pass muster with the SEC) in nearly two full decades. Satellite radio is a nice, profitable little niche. I appreciate much of what it offers. But I never bought into th thinking that it was a bona fide existential threat to terrestrial radio, and see no reason to start doing so now simply because a 60-plus-year-old genre of popular music is winding down. .

 

[TheBigA]

I just can't see, realistically, why terrestrial radio should be dreading "competition" from a rival delivery system that has only found 30 million users

I'm not aware anyone in radio sees Sirius that way. But I know they see AM/FM as competition, and their CEO talks about it every chance he gets.

 

[radiojomo]

One of the things I can count on year in and year out on this board is the animus directed at satellite radio or frankly any other medium that is not heard on the AM/FM dial whenever it is brought up. I admit that I like rock radio. Since I was told earlier on this thread that "rock is rock" and there should be no difference paid to the actual type of rock music played, I did a comparison. Local rock radio comprises of KCBS-FM, KLOS, KRTH (Rock/Pop blend), KYSR, KROQ, and KCSN - six stations in total, all of which have narrow playlists and high commercial load, except for KCSN. KCSN does have a large playlist and few commercials, but can only be heard in the most specific of locales.

Sirius has (count 'em!) 23 channels devoted exclusively to rock music in one form or another, all with broader playlists than local radio can support and no commercials. This count doesn't even include the channels that are pop/rock mixes such as the five decades channels and the PopRocks channel, nor does it include the online-only channels such as Yacht Rock and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (which can easily be played via the phone if one were so inclined).

But I am told that this is a niche product and the local broadcasters needn't worry about it as competition.

I absolutely do not think rock is dead - it's just more specialized today, which is why rock radio tries to play tracks that are common denominators that can try to reach as many people as possible to maximize audience and revenues, with exception to KCSN of course.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

With only 30 million or so subscribers (some of which are not people at all, but activated radios sitting in unsold cars on dealer lots), the math would indicate that, at most, SiriusXM is beinlg listened to by only 5 percent or so of the available listeners in any given market. The remainder aren't subscribers, and even a good number of subscribers still use conventional radio at times.

The "at times" are becoming fewer and fewer. I don't subscribe to SiriusXM but they continue to chase me almost every month since I bought a new car in Nov 2017 but I never subscribed even though I had a free 4 month subscription. I find there's only so much time in my life following the news, politics, baseball (2 teams), and of course my favorite pastime listening to music I like and love. So it's 88.5 FM for the most part, and Spotify as a secondary option and sometimes oldies on TuneIn Radio Pro. I pay for BOTH Spotify and 88.5. I pay for MLB.TV for my baseball fix. And of course I pay for HULU my TV stream. Commercial radio gets my ears mayyyyybe 1-2% of my time. That's how _I_ do it. I cannot be one of the ONLY few, right??

 

[michael hagerty]

One of the things I can count on year in and year out on this board is the animus directed at satellite radio or frankly any other medium that is not heard on the AM/FM dial whenever it is brought up. I admit that I like rock radio. Since I was told earlier on this thread that "rock is rock" and there should be no difference paid to the actual type of rock music played, I did a comparison. Local rock radio comprises of KCBS-FM, KLOS, KRTH (Rock/Pop blend), KYSR, KROQ, and KCSN - six stations in total, all of which have narrow playlists and high commercial load, except for KCSN. KCSN does have a large playlist and few commercials, but can only be heard in the most specific of locales.

Sirius has (count 'em!) 23 channels devoted exclusively to rock music in one form or another, all with broader playlists than local radio can support and no commercials. This count doesn't even include the channels that are pop/rock mixes such as the five decades channels and the PopRocks channel, nor does it include the online-only channels such as Yacht Rock and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (which can easily be played via the phone if one were so inclined).

But I am told that this is a niche product and the local broadcasters needn't worry about it as competition.

No animus here, ChannelFlipper. I listen (I especially like Real Jazz)---but the statistics show pretty clearly that in the 17 years since Sirius and XM launched as separate services, only a small fraction of listeners have the service (SiriusXM claims 34 million, which would be a shade over one-tenth of the U.S. population), much less use it to the exclusion of broadcast radio.

 

[davideduardo]

No animus here, ChannelFlipper. I listen (I especially like Real Jazz)---but the statistics show pretty clearly that in the 17 years since Sirius and XM launched as separate services, only a small fraction of listeners have the service (SiriusXM claims 34 million, which would be a shade over one-tenth of the U.S. population), much less use it to the exclusion of broadcast radio.

And, with the streaming services still a small part of the total user count, 34 million is only about one in 8 of the 263 million licensed vehicles in the US.

 

[K6JHU]

ONLY 34 million. And each of those paying upward of $20 a month for the service. Sirius/XM must be offering something there.

 

[michael hagerty]

ONLY 34 million. And each of those paying upward of $20 a month for the service. Sirius/XM must be offering something there.

Nobody's saying they don't. We're just saying they're a long way from replacing terrestrial radio for the majority of Americans---of which there are 327 million.

As a point of reference, Netflix began its streaming service 12 years ago. It has 61.9 million subscribers.

 

[CTListener]

ONLY 34 million. And each of those paying upward of $20 a month for the service. Sirius/XM must be offering something there.

It is. It's offering content that less than 10 percent of American consumers want to pay for. That's what known as a niche.

 

[boombox4]

Thanks to all for the info on KCAL-FM Riverside. I know LA region geography -- but do not know LA region radio geography.

I've heard that station online a couple times and also remember they played a local band's release for quite a while during the turn of the century, and seemed to be quite supportive of the band at time, which was cool.

Anyway, back to LA rock radio.

 

[davideduardo]

ONLY 34 million. And each of those paying upward of $20 a month for the service. Sirius/XM must be offering something there.

The monthly cost is below $15, and many people get it for around $10 including the surcharges. That is a lot less than your $20 figure.

And a significant portion of the subscribers are people who travel long distances, ranging from truckers to salespersons and route supervisors; these subscribers like not having to search out another station ever hundred miles or so during their travels. Many more subscribe because their smaller market has no station in their favorite music or talk format. And in some cases, they subscribe because the local, small market stations are not very listenable.

The appeal is nowhere near universal.

 

[davideduardo]

As a point of reference, Netflix began its streaming service 12 years ago. It has 61.9 million subscribers.

And each Netflix subscriber covers a whole household... you can get two or upgrade to more simultaneous streams. That means that the reach of Netflix is at least equal to 61.0 million times the size of the average household. That would be about 150 million in reach.

 

[radiojomo]

The monthly cost is below $15, and many people get it for around $10 including the surcharges. That is a lot less than your $20 figure.

And a significant portion of the subscribers are people who travel long distances, ranging from truckers to salespersons and route supervisors; these subscribers like not having to search out another station ever hundred miles or so during their travels. Many more subscribe because their smaller market has no station in their favorite music or talk format. And in some cases, they subscribe because the local, small market stations are not very listenable.

The appeal is nowhere near universal.

Does SXM still count trial subscriptions as subscribers? If so, every new vehicle purchased in the US for the first few months would count as a "subscriber."

I have SXM because of the crazy retention offer I received - 6 months for $25. I doubt everyone is paying full price for service...just saying

 

[CTListener]

Does SXM still count trial subscriptions as subscribers? If so, every new vehicle purchased in the US for the first few months would count as a "subscriber."

I have SXM because of the crazy retention offer I received - 6 months for $25. I doubt everyone is paying full price for service...just saying

Correct on both counts. Every activated radio is a "subscriber," whether the end user is paying for it or even listening to it or not -- or even if there is no end user and the car remains on the lot unsold for months and months.

SXM goes to great lengths to keep subscribers from canceling, with CSRs offering cut-rate deal after cut-rate deal over the phone even as the voice on the other end is pleading, "Look, I hate your programming. Just cancel my subscription, for the love of God!" or similar. SXM also has been known to hound those unfortunates who do succeed in cancelling with mail and robocalls inviting them to re-subscribe. Anything to present a picture of a contented, churn-free subscriber base to the shareholders and the Wall Street analysts.

 

[michael hagerty]

Correct on both counts. Every activated radio is a "subscriber," whether the end user is paying for it or even listening to it or not -- or even if there is no end user and the car remains on the lot unsold for months and months.

SXM goes to great lengths to keep subscribers from canceling, with CSRs offering cut-rate deal after cut-rate deal over the phone even as the voice on the other end is pleading, "Look, I hate your programming. Just cancel my subscription, for the love of God!" or similar. SXM also has been known to hound those unfortunates who do succeed in cancelling with mail and robocalls inviting them to re-subscribe. Anything to present a picture of a contented, churn-free subscriber base to the shareholders and the Wall Street analysts.

True. I bought a second-hand 2011 car for my daughter a year and a half ago. I'm still getting the monthly letter from SiriusXM trying to get me to reactivate the service (I wonder how long the original owners of the car kept it).

I also know a VERY well-known radio talent (if I wrote his name, nobody would ask "who?") who, a few years ago, bought a new high-end luxury car with a 90 day SiriusXM subscription. He ended up renewing, not because he listened much or liked it a lot, but because they kept calling and finally got down to five bucks a month, which he thought was a decent enough deal.

 

[K6JHU]

"And a significant portion of the subscribers are people who travel long distances, ranging from truckers to salespersons and route supervisors; these subscribers like not having to search out another station ever hundred miles or so during their travels. Many more subscribe because their smaller market has no station in their favorite music or talk format. And in some cases, they subscribe because the local, small market stations are not very listenable."

All three here

 

[LKellerIII]

"And a significant portion of the subscribers are people who travel long distances, ranging from truckers to salespersons and route supervisors; these subscribers like not having to search out another station ever hundred miles or so during their travels. Many more subscribe because their smaller market has no station in their favorite music or talk format. And in some cases, they subscribe because the local, small market stations are not very listenable."

All three here

I think Sirius/XM is a great service. I like listening when I rent cars. But I don't drive very far for work or recreation, and I probably wouldn't listen at home much. Between Audible, Amazon Prime, Netflix, HBO Now, Headspace, about 3 other electronic things I subscribe to, and probably 2 or 3 I've forgotten about but still pay for, it gets into some real money...

 

[tomservo]

SXM goes to great lengths to keep subscribers from canceling, with CSRs offering cut-rate deal after cut-rate deal over the phone even as the voice on the other end is pleading, "Look, I hate your programming. Just cancel my subscription, for the love of God!" or similar. SXM also has been known to hound those unfortunates who do succeed in cancelling with mail and robocalls inviting them to re-subscribe. Anything to present a picture of a contented, churn-free subscriber base to the shareholders and the Wall Street analysts.

I'm glad I ditched SXM early on after the merger, I've heard so many stories about their harassment and I hate dealing with stuff like that.

After the merger, the sound quality and depth of channel playlists just TANKED, and it was no longer worth what they were charging. I realized the audio was bad on the talk channels when I would flip back to AM and say, "Damn, that actually sounds good!"

 

[ATSFGuy]

I still have my XM on my smartphone, Been listening since June 2013. Yeah the custom mix feature and those looong biographies about the bands themselves have disappeared. But they haven't lost me yet! I have about 30 channels under favorites, 40's through 00's and a whole bunch of other stuff "just for kicks". Deep Tracks and Kids Place Live are two extra channels I spend a few hours with each day. Sometimes on the decade channels, when an obscure hit shows up, I find myself saying "Now why didn't FM play this back in the 2000's??? "To me that song fit the format."

 

[MarkW]

Supposedly, KLOS was generating just under $5 million in broadcast cash flow and $17 million to $19 million in annual billing.

http://www.insideradio.com/cumulus-...cle_113340c6-7612-11e9-9e13-93f6e0417b09.html

So, the station sold for about an 8.5x multiple of cash flow.