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KMCQ FM

Crafty perhaps, but economically this has got to be a huge failure on First's part. Some of you have brought up the various tricky owner "switches" and political tactics that had to be done in order to make this particular move-in even possible.

When one adds up all the hours and the associated $$ with this move; paying out for the counter proposal by KDUX, purchase and upgrade of the Forks station, propping up KHAL, not to forget the KMIH and KGHP settlements, you are talking some real serious money. Then, bring in the "buy" for converting KAFE to 104.1 and the associated Canadian issues....all for a measly 7.5 Kw at Cougar? Let's not forget the building of the current Radio Hill site either.

If the goal was to get a strong station to cover the market, then it just seems silly to me that they went through all of this trouble! They could have simply bought an existing property (KUOW comes to mind) and they would have been on the air much sooner then now and assuming such, more power to boost their coverage too.

In the end, I just can't see any profit gained by the First Investment partners, since this station will not fetch more than 20-25G tops. :'(
 
I believe there is still plenty of margin in this deal, if they get 20MM out of it. Even with high end estimates I don't see where they spent more than half that. The goal wasn't to buy an existing signal (even if KUOW was for sale) and flip it...the goal was to create something out of next to nothing. Which they have done. Not saying if it is right or wrong- but it certainly is creative. I am just jealous!

Total mitigation (Shore 90k, KAFE?, KDUX?, KMIH/KASB 180k) was well under 1MM total. Purchase price I had heard anywhere from 3.5 to 5MM- not sure but someone here probably has that answer. Temp facility 200k to set up and 200k a year to run? Forks bought, run, and sold, not a huge loss there- 100K or less?

Wattage ain't everything- You are going to get a decent signal to most of the metro, probably better on the eastside than 94.9. And if you get a hole in S Everett or Edmonds, throw in a booster or translator.

Easily doubled their money in five years. And it could've bee a LOT bigger gain, with a little luck. They did alright. Like I say, I just wish I had the wherewithal to do it myslef.
 
Well said Coyote. Many of the radio experts here have no concept of radio being an investment. 'Here's an idea! Let's buy KUOW from the University of Washington for $100 million dollars and in three years it will be worth $50 million when the market devalues!' What a great idea!.

Or as they did, roll the dice and do a move in of a station that nobody cared about for around $5 million and worst case, sell it for $15-20 million. Gee, I wonder which is a better investment??

Sure had the economic conditions not wound up as they did, First could have sold it for a lot more. But making a quick 10 atop a 5 investment... Not a bad deal considering.
 
What is missed in your assumptions is the nice area(s) that were blacked out under the various "agreements" that First had to conjure up to make this contraption even possible. A good source of mine has put the Saga deal alone at well over 8 Mil all by itself, not including all the legals and paperwork. I added up the dollars on the KMIH/KGHP/KASB deal some while back and that alone was closer to 300G. While this piece was clearly small potatoes, the same cannot be said for all the hours spent fending off the KDUX mess, the lawyers and the engineering consultants, nor all of the time in negotiations that had to have taken place with Canada, etc., Face it, there's a lot of dough being rolled to make this work. I did miss the re-sale on The Dalles and Forks, so that's probably a wash, but there's also a stipulation in mid-columbia agreement for an addtional payout too. (5 Mil if I remember right) In the end, we'll never know the exact number as the FCC allows the various parties not to disclose the dollar figures, but you've got to bet your farm that the friendly folks in B'ham or Vancouver just didn't just do "their move" for First for nothing, they did it for the big bucks to really make it worth their time. :-X
 
Great discussion all and I see we're back to my original discussion topic and that is to use the collective brainpower of this board to create a 'best guess' of what First has spent to date to get to where they are now. Love to have some educated guesses what this really cost, I see 1MM to 5MM - is that the right range? And would it really sell for 15-20MM?
 
I don't believe that the folks at First Broadcasting consider KMCQ to be a winner for them. It's taken them far longer than they expected to make the KMCQ deal happen, and remember that time is money -- it's not just what they've paid to the various stations involved, legal, and equipment costs, but also the *time* that employees and management at First Broadcastcasting have sunk into this turkey.

And, of course, over the course of the years that this deal has been slowly moving along, radio station values have been consistently dropping. Which means that when they eventually sell KMCQ, it will almost certainly be for much less than they initially anticipated.

While they might come out of KMCQ with a nominal profit, I seriously doubt that it will be a deal that they consider to be any sort of financial success.
 
Well you can believe what you want, all you want. First has a track record several of these move-in and around deals cooking nation-wide for a while, with most of them crossing the goal line as very profitable.

Ultimately I fail to understand why people as you get so bothered by some companies business deals or investments. When it comes to business, the most reward usually comes with the most risk anyway.
 
TVradioguru said:
Well you can believe what you want, all you want. First has a track record several of these move-in and around deals cooking nation-wide for a while, with most of them crossing the goal line as very profitable.

Ultimately I fail to understand why people as you get so bothered by some companies business deals or investments. When it comes to business, the most reward usually comes with the most risk anyway.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am quite aware that First Broadcasting has done some very profitable move-in deals -- several of their most successful deals were in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, where I live. Coincidentally, this is also where First Broadcasting is based...so my comment is based on more than just my opinion. It's based on actually having *talked* to someone at First, who expressed their frustration with the way KMCQ has played out.

It's nothing that should be a surprise -- it fits right in with that business school platitude about risk and reward that you reference. The nature of taking risks is that sometimes you'll strike out...and KMCQ is an instance where First Broadcasting struck out.
 
e-dawg said:
Speaking of Upgrading to class C-2 from Class C-3. Is their a possible way to upgrade to Class C1 or C-0?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, no. The distance between between the adjecent channels of KMCQ....which would be KAFE Bellingham, CHHR Vancouver, KFNK Eatonville, and even KMNT in Centralia, KKRV in Wenatchee, and KDUX in Aberdeen, will not allow them to go past C-3 off Cougar Mountain. KMCQ is kinda in a tight spot, on 104.5.
 
Unless the market improves at some point to make it financially worthwhile to do a multi-station juggle with the above-mentioned signals, not unlike some of the convoluted deals we've seen in other markets. I've been presented in the past with propositions involving cooperation from as many as 13 or more stations, all of whom would need to change frequency, location, power, or all of the above, just to end up with a major market rim shot.
 
I think some ought to write a book about this bogus series of allottments. The KMCQ series involved 24 different communities in Oregon and Washington, not counting KASB, KMIH and the Fall City LPFM. Besides the Dalles, Or to Covington move, another outrageous move was from KAST, Astoria to deep in the heart of the Portland, Oregon market. Check this antenna pattern out, orginating from Gladstone, Oregon, 11 miles away from downtown Portland and many more miles away from Astoria, Oregon:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM1110784.html

The Commission has rules against blatent attempts to move rural stations to urban areas, but the Commission took a blind eye towards these rediculous moves. But if First Broadcasting won the battle, it most certainly is losing in the war. This audacious "daisy-chain" series created such a political firestorm, it ignited both the Low Power movement, educational institutions, and some academics. In point of fact, in the Journal of Broadcasting & Electronic Media, professor Alan G. Stavisky at the University of Oregon wrote a piece highly critical of these moves here

http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/print/162470377.html

Dr. Stavisky's point is that localism is not fostered by these types of moves, and Congress should reject any efforts to continue along this path. And that is exactly what is happening, to the detriment of groups such as the National Associations of Broadcasters (NAB) and stations wishing to modify their facilities by moving to an urban location. Even the FCC has policy, now affirmed, that actually protects against an LPFM (giving them primary rights.....unable to be bumped) that is a co-channel or 1st adjecent channnel to a station wishing to modify that full-power stations facilities. This affirmed policy just came down in June of this year, and the NAB lost big time in the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Furthermore, the FCC is now limiting station moves to just under locations that provide 50% or less of additional urban-area populations. In other words, the KMCQ move could not have been possible now.

So I say, they won the battle but are losing the war. And that is just fine with me.
 
Interesting observation today - while waiting in line at the Federal Way Post Office on Pacific Ave. there was a portable radio blaring out the oldies - oldies that sounded a LOT like the old KBSG.

The TOH ID ran and whaddaya know - it was KMCQ, Covington.

So the "throwaway" format is already getting at-work listeners. Maybe it IS time to bring KBSG back.
 
Yep. Saw that this morning. It looks like they got on the Entercom Aux combiner, apparently. The Wolf, Mountain, End and KISW all share that exact height, 388 meters HAAT. KING-FM and KNHC are on the stick, as well.

So Entercom is the buyer? Hmmm.
 
SeattleRadioPro said:
Interesting observation today - while waiting in line at the Federal Way Post Office on Pacific Ave. there was a portable radio blaring out the oldies - oldies that sounded a LOT like the old KBSG.

The TOH ID ran and whaddaya know - it was KMCQ, Covington.

So the "throwaway" format is already getting at-work listeners. Maybe it IS time to bring KBSG back.
Click to expand...

So, I wonder, if KMCQ keeps the oldies format, I wonder what the future of the station holds?

Keep the same call letters? Call itself "Oldies 104?" "Q-104?"

Or change the call letters... Was there another Oldies station on FM back in the 1980s in the Seattle area, before KBSG? Whatever those call letters were, maybe the future owners of 104.5 could get those. If not FM call letters, maybe something from AM. Maybe 104.5 KXA??

KBSG calls have been taken now in Raymond, for their station on 107.9.
 
swhyde1980 said:
Was there another Oldies station on FM back in the 1980s in the Seattle area, before KBSG? Whatever those call letters were, maybe the future owners of 104.5 could get those. If not FM call letters, maybe something from AM. Maybe 104.5 KXA??

KBSG calls have been taken now in Raymond, for their station on 107.9.
Click to expand...

Calls are only required in the legal ID. You can call yourself anything you want the rest of the time - even call letters licensed to another station - as long as using those call letters don't have a city of license after them.
 
SWHYDE1980 - a couple of corrections:

KBSG is used by an LPFM in Fall City.

KLSY is the call for 107.9, and it is licensed to South Bend, not Raymond.

Re: KXA - Three letter calls are no longer authorized. And KXAA is taken by Cle Elum.

Most radio listeners now identify stations by name and frequency (car radios have a digital frequency readout).
 
Bill Wolfenbarger said:
SWHYDE1980 - a couple of corrections:

KBSG is used by an LPFM in Fall City.

KLSY is the call for 107.9, and it is licensed to South Bend, not Raymond.

Re: KXA - Three letter calls are no longer authorized. And KXAA is taken by Cle Elum.

Most radio listeners now identify stations by name and frequency (car radios have a digital frequency readout).
Click to expand...

WHOOPS! My mistake on KBSG!

I assume then 3-letter calls are only authorized on the FM side (and even TV), only if they are being used on the AM side (as the case with KJR, KHQ, KGW...etc...).

SeattleRadioPro said:
Calls are only required in the legal ID. You can call yourself anything you want the rest of the time - even call letters licensed to another station - as long as using those call letters don't have a city of license after them.
Click to expand...

I remember when 95.7 went back to KJR, for about a week they still had "KBTB Seattle" on their hourly ID, from their 2 years as "The Beat". Same when they became KJR the first time around, they had "KLTX Seattle" for a week or so, before the calls officially became KJR-FM.
 
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