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KMVN's numbers

so Rick Dees said on-air that there are 423,000 new listeners in the last 2 weeks to KMVN

not bad

I just fealt the need to point this out since everyone on this board seems to be anti-KMVN ;)>
 
halloaaryn said:
so Rick Dees said on-air that there are 423,000 new listeners in the last 2 weeks to KMVN

not bad

I just fealt the need to point this out since everyone on this board seems to be anti-KMVN ;)>

The trends don't come out until next week... I don't know how he would know? And I'm not anti-KMVN.
 
Me neither, I'm the pro Emmis, pro Univision, anti Radio One dude. :D

Anyone notice they've added a mixshow on Friday over there at 93.9(they're using KPWR people obviously.)
 
Radioresearcher said:
The trends don't come out until next week... I don't know how he would know? And I'm not anti-KMVN.

I dont know but if Rick Dees says it, I will believe it (the ONLY on-air person I would believe)
 
halloaaryn said:
Radioresearcher said:
The trends don't come out until next week... I don't know how he would know? And I'm not anti-KMVN.

I dont know but if Rick Dees says it, I will believe it (the ONLY on-air person I would believe)

Unfortunately, he didn't source his data. Arbitron releases quarterly ratings, and monthly trends. KMVN may be up over 400,000 total cume since sign-on - but not 400,000 new listeners in the last two weeks (which, by the way, data which will not be released until January).
 
Look, I know Dees is a candidate for sainthood in the minds of some (god only knows why!) BUT all personalities stretch the truth about numbers in some way, shape, form, or fashion. ALL OF THEM DO IT, PERIOD. Dees possibly having access to some data that we here do not have is also possible. my thought is that he literally just pulled that figure out of his arse. HAVING SAID THAT: I think the station needs to be given an honest chance, as in more than just a book before anyone tries to evaluate it on ANY level at all.

Agree?.
 
numbers numbers numbers

Numbers arent always right.

Arbitron has yet to ONCE ask me what I listen to. I think their system sucks.

but I cant imagine Rick Dees just pulling it out of his ass.
 
halloaaryn said:
numbers numbers numbers

Numbers arent always right.

Arbitron has yet to ONCE ask me what I listen to. I think their system sucks.

but I cant imagine Rick Dees just pulling it out of his ass.
It is a "system" halloaaryn. A good programmer and a good morning man can make that system work for them. Sounds like that is what Dees is doing by touting early success. If people think they are a part of a winning trend, they are more likely to want to write down the station in an Arbitron diary. And you don't have to "reveal your source", unless you get caught! As I stated earlier I think Rick Dees is a great Morning Man and superb choice for Movin'. I just think they have to many cooks in the programming and imaging kitchen!

Goodfellow
 
halloaaryn said:
numbers numbers numbers

Numbers arent always right.

Arbitron has yet to ONCE ask me what I listen to. I think their system sucks.

but I cant imagine Rick Dees just pulling it out of his ass.

I think those numbers were cooked and they came from his ass.
 
The November numbers are just pathetic. When your ratings are similar to a religious station at the end of the dial at south end of Orange County, it's time to do something drastic. Movin is the "Rock With A Beat" turkey of this decade. It's even a bigger disaster than KDL...

Movin should go after KIIS. That's their only hope before Dees bails. Dees won't stay much longer with these ratings. And if the format changes and Dees stays he needs to change much of his staff starting with Patty Lopez. She adds NOTHING to his show. She's actually dragging him down. She hasn't improved at all. It again shows you can't hire people in a major market with no radio experience. Dees always jokes about having 7 listeners, he's not far off now.

Before they picked jocks for this station, I posted they should hire some seasoned KIIS or Power talents. Well, they didn't. And that says a lot about where they are.
 
hey now they are a robust #38 25-54 adults ::)

pretty sickening (but predictable)
 
#38 in 25 to 54 adults! What are those number worth?
Don't worry Emmis the numbers can only get better! Just tweak the music a bit by dumping it because its already covered by many other stations in the market! Clear Channel is laughing all the way to the bank with all that money already! One other thing to remember is the fact that it's called "Broadcasting" so why don't you hire someone that understands the concept! You might start making some real money with the station! The womens demo is covered quite nicely already! The Idea is to find the format hole in the market and fill it, not to copy some station in Seattle, WA. If you want to challenge KIIS then do it head on. Remember KHJ in the sixties? The method used still applies hit the competition over the head 24 hours a day with real people on the air with news and information relevent to the listeners daily lives and play the hits!
 
RadioStarOne said:
#38 in 25 to 54 adults! What are those number worth?
Don't worry Emmis the numbers can only get better! Just tweak the music a bit by dumping it because its already covered by many other stations in the market! Clear Channel is laughing all the way to the bank with all that money already! One other thing to remember is the fact that it's called "Broadcasting" so why don't you hire someone that understands the concept! You might start making some real money with the station! The womens demo is covered quite nicely already! The Idea is to find the format hole in the market and fill it, not to copy some station in Seattle, WA. If you want to challenge KIIS then do it head on. Remember KHJ in the sixties? The method used still applies hit the competition over the head 24 hours a day with real people on the air with news and information relevent to the listeners daily lives and play the hits!
Believe me I remember KHJ. Mr. Drake was one savvy Georgia boy. If a programmer had told the Big Kahuna that he was going to win 5 to 9 years of female numbers instead of 12 to death he would have been fired. By programming the hits format to such a narrow group it makes it impossible to be a mass appeal station like the founders of top 40 envisioned. Why not play all of the songs that are selling without regard for gender?

Rick Dees would still be great for that format!

Goodfellow
 
Believe me I remember KHJ. Mr. Drake was one savvy Georgia boy. If a programmer had told the Big Kahuna that he was going to win 5 to 9 years of female numbers instead of 12 to death he would have been fired. By programming the hits format to such a narrow group it makes it impossible to be a mass appeal station like the founders of top 40 envisioned. Why not play all of the songs that are selling without regard for gender?
[/quote]

In 1965, there were only about 8 viable LA signals... the major AMs. 570, 640, 710, 790, 930, 980, 1070... with 1230, 1580 and 1330 close to viable given the market dimensions. The big stations could get double digit shares. Each vable station could expect an 8 to 12 share! Spanish stations did not even have a 1 share... today they have over 30 shares.

Today, there are 30 viable FMs, plus the first group of AMs... 37 viable signals sharing the 87 commercial shares in LA. That comes out to just a tad more than 2 shares per station on average.

With that much competiton, each station has to specialize. And with ad buys far more targeted to very specific demos, no station can be a generalist and no kind of music or talk format is broad enough to get wide ranges like Top 40 did in the 60's.

Most stations could not care less what is selling, as the 25+ listener which advertisers want is not a music buying group as a whole. And there is not a reliable way of getting single song sales data by consumer group so as to identify which songs one station's listeners like. Again, tastes have fragmented, and radio has specialized in each of these taste groups as appropriate... radio did not fragment tastes, listeners did.

When hard or progressive rock came out of late 60's Top 40, the Top 40's did not play anything but the very commercial cuts. So other stations, especially new independent FMs, took up that kind of music and created a new format... which evolved into AOR. Those who liked more familiar songs opened the way to oldies stations, and those who did not like harder stuff gave a base for AC. Top 40 spawned a half-dozen formats, and most of the listeners left Top 40 for good, making it a teen proposition... not the easiest thing to sell as ad buys went more and more after 25-54 and not 12-17 and 12-24.

When everyone liked the same music to a greater extent, stations could research singles sales and jukebox plays. Today, we have to find listeners to our station or to its direct competitors, and talk to them individually, as record sales are meaningless. In fact, many stations do not play currents and the listeners to them don't want to hear new music.

"The founders of Top 40" hit on the format by serendipity. The story of Todd Storz and Bill Stewart watching a juke box in Omaha are mostly true... and the first Top 40 went on the air in August of 1952 in that city on KOWH. I talked with Mr. Storz in Miami shortly before his death, and I can say that there was no "intent" in designing anything but a format for the moment that attracted listeners. In 1952, playing the hits meant gogi Grant and Perry Como and such... and almost all Americans liked the same music. Today, there are so many different taste groups that radio is challenged by iPods and such to serve each listener with their personal favorite music.

And I'd bet that Ron Jacobs, the mastermind behind KHJ, would superserve a niche today and not try to recreate the impossible.
 
KMVN was the station that really got the Rhythmic AC bandwagon rolling nationwide. Soon after KZLA flipped, MOVIN" became the trendy hot new format. Nobody even waited to see how KMVN would do before claiming it was the "hot" format.

Is rhythmic AC even a viable format or is it doing especially bad in LA because the market is saturated with similar stations. If the latter is true, wasn't Emmis aware of the market landscape? (although I realize KBIG made adjustments soon after MOVIN' came on).

We will see the same thing in San Francisco, CBS started MOVIN' in a market with several stations playing similar music.

What kind of tweaks, if any, could KMVN make to help improve their situation? Would playing more of the songs that were local hits on KPWR in the late 80s/early 90s help seperate MOVIN' from the pack or are these songs too unfamiliar now?
 
David,

There were a few more viable signals in 1965. Both 1110 and 1540 were viable in those days. In fact KPOL was often in the top 3 back then.

Also 1020 and 1150 were viable signals, but for some reason never had good ratings in the 60s.

Winter 1968 AQH Listeners Top Ten Stations

KHJ--96, 000
KLAC--67, 000
KFI --62, 000
KMPC--52, 000
KPOL--51,000
KRLA--50,000
KNX--49,000
KFWB--41, 000
KABC--39, 000
KFAC--26, 000
 
briancraig said:
David,

There were a few more viable signals in 1965. Both 1110 and 1540 were viable in those days. In fact KPOL was often in the top 3 back then.

Also 1020 and 1150 were viable signals, but for some reason never had good ratings in the 60s.

Winter 1968 AQH Listeners Top Ten Stations

KHJ--96, 000
KLAC--67, 000
KFI --62, 000
KMPC--52, 000
KPOL--51,000
KRLA--50,000
KNX--49,000
KFWB--41, 000
KABC--39, 000
KFAC--26, 000

Yeah, you are right about KRLA. It was viable. KPOL was just barely viable, but did get numbers with the Bueautiful Music format.

KTNQ did not exist as a fultimer until 1975, roughly. It was KPOL until about 1959, and then KGBS and also Bueautiful Music in the 60's, but was a datytimer from a site in Lynwood; it never was a money maker, and tried country for a while, too. 1150 was part of KFSG, and not viable commercially as it was not a commercially run station, so I skipped it.

Still, we have just 10 really decent signals. 570, 640, 710, 790, 930, 980, 1070, 1110, 1330, 1540. KGFJ did a good job with its tiny signal while the Black population was concentrated near its transmitter, and KDAY was another that worked, although not too well, for similar reasons.

Are those Pulse or Hooper numbers?

Interestingly, the first regular Spanish on LA radio was a show that started around 1948 on 1020 (KPOP and 5 kw) and it ran from 3 AM or so to 6 AM, since KPOP could sign on at sunrise in Pittsburgh and they used the time for a Spanish show.
 
David,

Do you know when KALI and KWKW first went to Spanish language formats? I know both stations were on the air in the 1940s. I know they were both 100% Spanish by the early 1960s. I wonder which one has the distinction as being the first full time Spanish station in L.A.

The numbers I posted are from Arbitron. They were in Rob Jacobs book about KHJ.
 
Jay F said:
Is rhythmic AC even a viable format or is it doing especially bad in LA because the market is saturated with similar stations. If the latter is true, wasn't Emmis aware of the market landscape? (although I realize KBIG made adjustments soon after MOVIN' came on).

We have a Movin'-like station here in Philadelphia (Clear Channel killed smooth jazz for it)... it's pulling a mid 2 12+ (jazz was getting an upper 3); I believe that number may have a few weeks of smooth jazz in it -- we'll find out later today!

Philly is a market where Hot AC's never make it, there's only one CHR/Pop in town, and we have a very dominate AC station that isn't even worried about the new rhythmic AC station.

Here's a question: what kind of ratings would KMVN have without Rick Dees?!
 
briancraig said:
David,

Do you know when KALI and KWKW first went to Spanish language formats? I know both stations were on the air in the 1940s. I know they were both 100% Spanish by the early 1960s. I wonder which one has the distinction as being the first full time Spanish station in L.A.

The numbers I posted are from Arbitron. They were in Rob Jacobs book about KHJ.

When I get my stuff unpacked from my move, I will look in the 50's and 60's Broadcasting Yearbooks. My recollection (I programmed KW in the 1972-1974 period) is that it became fulltime Spanish in the early 60's, before KALI since KALI had brokered stuff on until the late 60's.... but I will verify.

That book is very interesting. I worked with Ron Jacobs briefly about 12 years ago, before he returned to Hawai'i, and he is as intelligent as you would find at a physics lab! Fascinating person.
 
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