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KNX on Backup Power

> That only demands one answer: "So what?"


You just don't get it, do you?

KM Richards, a moderator, of all things, had just posted that only someone who had stayed on the air at the expense of his family has the right to comment on KNX's braindead emergency preparedness.

I could care less about his experience, and don't expect anyone to give a rat's a-- about mine.

That is exactly my point. Once again, you don't get it.


> All of us in radio
> any amount of time have broadcast major acts of God and
> similar occurances. I have a half dozen hurricanes, a couple
> of earthquakes, several revolutions and the random flood,
> landslide and fire. It is part of the job. We do not get
> prizes for it.
> >
>


Nice obvious point, David. I'll make two others:

(1) The audience expects better than what KNX did during the outage.

(2) Your and Mr. Richard's mutual backcovering society are obvious.
 
Re: Now that is darn Cool!

> Which Revolutions did you Work through?.

I think he means when KRUX went all news in 1974. There was a shootout in the DJ lounge.
 
> > That only demands one answer: "So what?"
>
>
> You just don't get it, do you?

No, that should be rephrased as, "I just don't get you." You seem to find fault in nearly everything, and often, as in your recent post about noncommercial stations and ratings, post stuff that is just not correct.
>
> KM Richards, a moderator, of all things, had just posted
> that only someone who had stayed on the air at the expense
> of his family has the right to comment on KNX's braindead
> emergency preparedness.

KNX, as I believe has been pointed out, just recently moved. Unless someone shows malfeasance of the most willful kind, I would chalk up the coverage glitches to the fact that everything was new and newly installed. Stuff happens.

I think it is unfair to slam them without knowing the facts. I'm not a fan of David Hall's changes to KNX, but that is opinion about a programming quality. To let fly the brickbats just because KNX ran into some problems is mean.
>
> I could care less about his experience, and don't expect
> anyone to give a rat's a-- about mine.

I believe the point is that anyone who has been through disasters in radio knows there is an uncertainty about everything.

Look at the absolutely marvelous job done by WWL in New Orleans. Yet, when the storm hit, at 1 AM two weeks ago, thier generator would not reset and turn back on... they were off during the worst of the storm. They had built the transmitter on filled, high land, with the building on stilts and the tower base above flood level. Yet something small failed... but no one on the Louisiana board blames WWL for this glitch.

>
> That is exactly my point. Once again, you don't get it.

I have come to expect this kind of dismissal from you. You are holding radio to a standard that is unattainable, and then condemning stations and thier staffs who do not live up to your standards.
 
Re: Now that is darn Cool!

> Which Revolutions did you Work through?.

When in Ecuador, I went through 6 changes of government, only two of which were by elections. The others were a coup by the VP against the President, a military coup, followed by two more miltary coups.

A few years ago, I went through 4 presidential resignations in 3 weeks in Argentina... not a coup, but there was burning, rioting and looting everywhere.

In Guatemala, in the 60's, I went through a leftist coup, and was holed up in a hotel for 10 days while the factions reduced each other's numbers.

I also went through Nixon's resignation. ;-)
 
Re: Now that is darn Cool!

> > Which Revolutions did you Work through?.
>
> I think he means when KRUX went all news in 1974. There was
> a shootout in the DJ lounge.
>

KRUX went all news around 1976, if I recall. I was GM of a group of staitons in Puerto Rico when that happened, but was in contact with owner Larry Mazursky, and I believe that was when the NBC all news net debuted.

Of course, you are making fun of fairly serious stuff. In one coup I went through, in Ecuador, my newspaper counterpart at a jointly programmed news talker was killed. I was just threatened and had to flee the country.
 
"To let fly the brickbats just because KNX had some problems is mean."

Wow, what an apologist piece of malarky you post.

> No, that should be rephrased as, "I just don't get you." You
> seem to find fault in nearly everything,

Yes, unlike you, I think corporate radio is on a steady downward slide, and unlike you I don't suckle at that particular teat any more.

> and often, as in
> your recent post about noncommercial stations and ratings,
> post stuff that is just not correct.

Then prove my "error". You didn't and can't. Your ratings don't measure non-commerical radio. The ratings are biased to the commericial stations and thus inaccurate.


> KNX, as I believe has been pointed out, just recently moved.
> Unless someone shows malfeasance of the most willful kind, I
> would chalk up the coverage glitches to the fact that
> everything was new and newly installed. Stuff happens.

"Stuff happens" is the lamest excuse in the book.

The fact that Infinity just moved two very-important broadcast stations into a brand new facility that couldn't even put phone calls on the air during a power outage speaks volumes about the sad state of corporate radio in this era.

The fact that KNX employees were so rattled and amateur that they couldn't be heard over a shrieking fire alarm in their main studio speaks volumes about the caliber of recent hires there.


>
> I think it is unfair to slam them without knowing the facts.

The facts are what comes out of the radio. As a listener, I could care less WHY they failed, the fact is they failed miserably.


> I'm not a fan of David Hall's changes to KNX, but that is
> opinion about a programming quality. To let fly the
> brickbats just because KNX ran into some problems is mean.

KNX is a 50kw radio station in the media capital of the world, owned by a Fortune 500 company that pays its people a lot of money to perform. Their performance was third-rate. Is that mean? Awww.


> I believe the point is that anyone who has been through
> disasters in radio knows there is an uncertainty about
> everything.
>
> Look at the absolutely marvelous job done by WWL in New
> Orleans. Yet, when the storm hit, at 1 AM two weeks ago,
> thier generator would not reset and turn back on... they
> were off during the worst of the storm. They had built the
> transmitter on filled, high land, with the building on
> stilts and the tower base above flood level. Yet something
> small failed... but no one on the Louisiana board blames WWL
> for this glitch.

The problems faced by KNX are miniscule compared to WWL, and KNX did a worse job.


> I have come to expect this kind of dismissal from you. You
> are holding radio to a standard that is unattainable, and
> then condemning stations and thier staffs who do not live up
> to your standards.
>


Unattainable? KFWB attained it. KFI attained it. Heck, even KTLK attained it. Huzzah, Clear Channel.

And as for expecting disdain from me for my demanding a certain level of performance from these licensees serving in the public interest, your posts appear to be from so deep down the corporate world of profits-before-anything-else broadcasting that the horizon can't be seen.

Damn straight I dismiss butt-covering for poor little KNX.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by zumahans1 on 09/14/05 07:38 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Now that is darn Cool!

> > > Which Revolutions did you Work through?.
> >
> > I think he means when KRUX went all news in 1974. There
> was
> > a shootout in the DJ lounge.
> >
>
> KRUX went all news around 1976, if I recall.

I knew you would feel you have to correct me. You always do.

You are incorrect. KRUX was all news in fall 75. I was there (I was an intern taking in high school sports scores).

KTAR radio, where I later worked, dropped NBC Monitor in late 74 or early 75 when that service was killed to make way for NBC NIS.

KRUX was an NIS station from the day NIS started to the day NIS ended.

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by zumahans1 on 09/14/05 07:58 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: "To let fly the brickbats just because KNX had some problems is mean."

> > and often, as in
> > your recent post about noncommercial stations and ratings,
>
> > post stuff that is just not correct.
>
> Then prove my "error". You didn't and can't. Your ratings
> don't measure non-commerical radio. The ratings are biased
> to the commericial stations and thus inaccurate.

And, as I have pointed out previously, the ratings are a service to the advertising community, and thus the inclusion of non-commercial stations is a non-issue. In other words, they only have to be accurate for the commercial stations, so your statement above is of no consequence whatsoever.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Now that is darn Cool!

> > > > Which Revolutions did you Work through?.
> > >
> > > I think he means when KRUX went all news in 1974. There
> > was
> > > a shootout in the DJ lounge.
> > >
> >
> > KRUX went all news around 1976, if I recall.
>
> I knew you would feel you have to correct me. You always do.
>
>
> You are incorrect. KRUX was all news in fall 75. I was there
> (I was an intern taking in high school sports scores).

Okay, now you sound like what I am always accused of.

I'm not sure who I have a greater distaste for ... Hans, or Glenn.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: "To let fly the brickbats just because KNX had some problems is mean."

> Wow, what an apologist piece of malarky you post.

You certainly have a right to your opinion, and it would not be the first time the tow of us disagree. However, I feel it is totally unfair to judge glitches in emergency broadcasting so harshly. The station was on the air, they did give the needed info. The simply had a phone problem.
>
> > No, that should be rephrased as, "I just don't get you."
> You
> > seem to find fault in nearly everything,
>
> Yes, unlike you, I think corporate radio is on a steady
> downward slide, and unlike you I don't suckle at that
> particular teat any more.

The problem is that there is no proof of any kind that radio is on a steady downward slide. Radio is holding the same cume shares it had 20 years ago, despite huge new alternative entertainment offerings. It is natural that there be erosion in time dedicated to listening to radio, but even that is not so grave that commercial radio is in imminent danger of going catatonic in the immediate future.
>
> > and often, as in
> > your recent post about noncommercial stations and ratings,
>
> > post stuff that is just not correct.
>
> Then prove my "error". You didn't and can't. Your ratings
> don't measure non-commerical radio. The ratings are biased
> to the commericial stations and thus inaccurate.

I already proved this. First, Nielsen does not rate radio, although you referred to them by name. Second, Arbitron rates all stations, including noncoms and even satellite. The published reports and Arbitrends do not include the non-coms, mostly because Arbitron is principally a sales tool. However, Maximiser includes anything that anyone includes in a diary that they think is radio. Arbitron does not sell ratings to noncoms directly, but via the Radio research Consortium which even has a website that shows non-com Arbitron shares.

Any commercial Arbitron subscriber can see the noncom shares... even the XM and sirius shares.

So, your claim is wrong.

> "Stuff happens" is the lamest excuse in the book.

Yet it is true. My example of WWL is a good one. And, personally, I built a hardened facility in Puerto Rico years ago, intended to withstand a Force 5 hurricane which is much more a real possibility there than on the US mainland. Everything worked, except for the totally "impossible" build up of a vacuum in the building which caused water to be sucked in the cooling air outlet... flooding the insides of a transmitter. Stuff happens.
>
> The fact that Infinity just moved two very-important
> broadcast stations into a brand new facility that couldn't
> even put phone calls on the air during a power outage speaks
> volumes about the sad state of corporate radio in this era.

Very possibley, the glitches in the power caused some malfunction in the phones. Electronic phones are, of themselves, touchy. I would bet that everyone thought the design and installation was done correctly. Something did not work, probably somehting that would only surface in a true emergency type situation.
>
> The fact that KNX employees were so rattled and amateur that
> they couldn't be heard over a shrieking fire alarm in their
> main studio speaks volumes about the caliber of recent hires
> there.

The staiton spent the better part of 80 years in one facility. They just moved a few weeks ago. When things go wrong, it rattles people. As I said, I have a tape of KKHJ during the '94 quake, where the jock was trying to calm people in the middle of the quake, and, when a cart rack fell on him, he simply said, "Oh, S--t." It happens. We are human.
>
> > I think it is unfair to slam them without knowing the
> facts.
>
> The facts are what comes out of the radio. As a listener, I
%0
 
Re: Now that is darn Cool!

> > KRUX went all news around 1976, if I recall.
>
> I knew you would feel you have to correct me. You always do.

... when you are wrong.
>
>
> You are incorrect. KRUX was all news in fall 75. I was there
> (I was an intern taking in high school sports scores).

I believe I said "around 1976." That would be somewhere, give or take 5 or 6 months. Late '75, '76, or early '77. That is why I said, "around." That is what the word "around" means... an approximation. I said that because I did not know for certain. You did worse. You said it was in '74. In '74, the station was still Top 40, along with sisters KTKT and KENO.
 
Revisionist History Attempt Fails

> I believe I said "around 1976." That would be somewhere,
> give or take 5 or 6 months. Late '75, '76, or early '77.
> That is why I said, "around." That is what the word "around"
> means... an approximation. I said that because I did not
> know for certain. You did worse. You said it was in '74. In
> '74, the station was still Top 40, along with sisters KTKT
> and KENO.

He's right, Hans. That IS what you originally said:

<a target="_blank" href=http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=539450&Board=losangeles>http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=539450&Board=losangeles</a>

And then quoted a different date, to "prove" David wrong, saying you were there when it happened.

So I have to ask: If you were there, WHY DID YOU GET IT WRONG IN THE FIRST POST?<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
The ratings are in error, but that's not of consequence...

> And, as I have pointed out previously, the ratings are a
> service to the advertising community, and thus the inclusion
> of non-commercial stations is a non-issue. In other words,
> they only have to be accurate for the commercial stations,
> so your statement above is of no consequence whatsoever.
>


A service to the advertising community? I thought this was a forum about RADIO.

And when we are talking about what people listen to on the radio, the commercial ratings are not accurate because they do not measure noncommercial radio, particularly NPR.

You err when you say they are of no consequence whatsoever. We are talking about the shrinking ratings of all-news stations, two of the highest-billing stations in the market.

If I were an advertiser, I would want to know where those listeners went. If the ratings are only there as a service to advertisers, then the advertisers are being disserved.

But that's NOT why we talk about ratings here, is it? No, we talk about what people are listening to.

And in the context of why KNX and KFWB are so starved for ratings, the NPR ratings are not only of consequence, they are of paramount importance.

The question is: where did all those KNX / KFWB listeners go?

The answer is KCRW, KPCC and their smaller sisters.

To say that is of no consequence is to fundamantally misunderstand mathematics, statistics, and radio.

Which is, of course, in the interest of the over-indebted coprorate radio chains that have wrecked AM/FM broadcasting.




<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by zumahans1 on 09/15/05 07:02 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Now that is darn Cool!

.
>
> I'm not sure who I have a greater distaste for ... Hans, or
> Glenn.
>

What a pleasant tone, Mr. Moderator.
 
Re: Now that is darn Cool!

an intern taking in high school sports scores).
>
> I believe I said "around 1976." That would be somewhere,
> give or take 5 or 6 months. Late '75, '76, or early '77.
> That is why I said, "around." That is what the word "around"
> means... an approximation. I said that because I did not
> know for certain. You did worse. You said it was in '74. In
> '74, the station was still Top 40, along with sisters KTKT
> and KENO.
>
I was closer than you were. And I was not the one correcting you - you played your "I'm Always Right" card as usual.

I don't know what is more pathetic.

Someone who says you can't criticise a radio station for embarassing itself at a time it should have shined, or someone who is so inferior-feeling that he has to answer everyone everytime with a smirking superiority complex.
 
STUPID is a s stupid does ...

> > Uh, the whole city reported an outage Vern.
> >
>
> No, actually, it did not. Only part of the city did. In
> fact, in the middle of the problem, much of Glendale had no
> outage at all except a switching spike. The affected area
> only covered about a quarter or so of the metro.
>

Say, that reminds me of the time I was in Paraguay during the revolution of 1978. We didn't have power for 6 weeks. We ran the radio station using a Jeep's alternator while the federales weren't looking. Of course, our 18-34 demographic was trending up, so the format must have been working despite the satellite-fed religious format.
 
Pearls of wisdom

> > Have you ever been on the air for 20 hours straight,
> > anchoring disaster news coverage with no one to relieve
> > you other than field reporters, because your studios
> > were inaccessible due to the disaster? I have, and
> > until you have as well, you are not qualified to make
> > the critique you did above.

> > You wanted me to make a "meaningful" post in this thread?
> > Well, there it is. > > Doesn't make you look any better, does it?
> >
> > I'm not sure who I have a greater distaste for ... Hans,
> > or Glenn.
> >

These well-reasoned arguments have convinced me of the superiority of your opinions. We must be wrong.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by zumahans1 on 09/15/05 07:07 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Arbitron has always rated non commercial stations...

> > And, as I have pointed out previously, the ratings are a
> > service to the advertising community, and thus the
> inclusion
> > of non-commercial stations is a non-issue. In other
> words,
> > they only have to be accurate for the commercial stations,
>
> > so your statement above is of no consequence whatsoever.
> >
>
>
> A service to the advertising community? I thought this was
> a forum about RADIO.

Commercial radio is all about advertising.
>
> And when we are talking about what people listen to on the
> radio, the commercial ratings are not accurate because they
> do not measure noncommercial radio, particularly NPR.

Wrong. Arbitron ratings measure noncommercial radio, and always have. 12 to 13 shares have gone to the non-com sector in the last 8 books.
>
> You err when you say they are of no consequence whatsoever.
> We are talking about the shrinking ratings of all-news
> stations, two of the highest-billing stations in the market.

They are mid billers, around $30 million each. That is half of what the #1 biller does.

> If I were an advertiser, I would want to know where those
> listeners went. If the ratings are only there as a service
> to advertisers, then the advertisers are being disserved.

Advertisers do not give a tinkers damn where listeners went. They buy based on multi book averages, and pay rates based on what a station has, not on what it might have.
>
> But that's NOT why we talk about ratings here, is it? No, we
> talk about what people are listening to.
>
> And in the context of why KNX and KFWB are so starved for
> ratings, the NPR ratings are not only of consequence, they
> are of paramount importance.

Actually, the non-com shares in the last book were at the low end of the range. Any attrition from KFWB and KNX has not gone there. In fact, what we have is lower TSL, but fairly stable cume on both stations.
>
> The question is: where did all those KNX / KFWB listeners
> go?

Most are still there.
>
> The answer is KCRW, KPCC and their smaller sisters.

Nope There is no increase over the last 5 years in noncom total listening.
>
> To say that is of no consequence is to fundamantally
> misunderstand mathematics, statistics, and radio.

It is of no consequence because it is not true. Untruth is totally inconsequential.
>
> Which is, of course, in the interest of the over-indebted
> coprorate radio chains that have wrecked AM/FM broadcasting.
>

Actually, that is not true either. Tke Clear Channel... its debt to equity ratio is the same as General Motors, the gold standard for US corporations. Invinity / Viacom has reasonable debt, as do the other operators in LA, ranging from Emmis to Univsion. You fail to understand that most expansion in radio was equity funded, not debt funded.

You did not get one pint right this time.
 
Re: Now that is darn Cool!

> Someone who says you can't criticise a radio station for
> embarassing itself at a time it should have shined, or
> someone who is so inferior-feeling that he has to answer
> everyone everytime with a smirking superiority complex.

The problem is that you have not gotton one fact right in this entire thread... right down to claiming Nielsen does the radio ratings.
>
 
Re: STUPID is a s stupid does ...

> > > Uh, the whole city reported an outage Vern.
> > >
> >
> > No, actually, it did not. Only part of the city did. In
> > fact, in the middle of the problem, much of Glendale had
> no
> > outage at all except a switching spike. The affected area
> > only covered about a quarter or so of the metro.
> >
>
> Say, that reminds me of the time I was in Paraguay during
> the revolution of 1978. We didn't have power for 6 weeks. We
> ran the radio station using a Jeep's alternator while the
> federales weren't looking. Of course, our 18-34 demographic
> was trending up, so the format must have been working
> despite the satellite-fed religious format.


I see. In fact, less than 25% of the metro did not have light. Obfuscation is not your strong suit, either.

Did they have Nielsen radio ratings in Paraguay?

(Federales are in Mexico, anyway)
 
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