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KOLA's trend lowest in years

Re: KFRG REACTS!

> >
> It's a great market with underperforming salespeople.

Any market that is 27th in population nad 50th nationally in billing is an awful market by any standards.

> You
> have 1.7 mil in the metro and growing (not to mention the 1
> mil in the no man's land in between L.A. and the 15).

There are 1.7 million in the metro. There is no "no man's land." You are either in LA metro or Riverside/SBD metro.

> You
> have a young population that spends more retail dollars than
> overrated Orange County - and yet they aren't converting to
> revenue.

Because OC is in the LA metro, and Riverside is not. It is a shadow market, outside the top 25, and part of the LA HDA for TV. It is often forgotten for radio, and then bought at low rates on take it or leave it.
>
> Radio out there needs to program correctly - and local.
> KGGI, KWIE, and KCAL do a good job of that. KXRS/KXSB do
> decent revenue as well.

That combo dies about $4.5 million, as the only viable ocal Spanish station in a market where 28% is Hispanic. That is horrible.
>
> I think the market underperforms because it isn't
> consolidated and they are competing on rate - and we know
> that a lot of agencies just use L.A. and take whatever spill
> they get.

Here we agree. And national does not often buy the market because it is not top 25, and they also get so much spillage. Of course, an LA station that mentions this as an additional value is dismissed summarily.

Locally, the market is a collection of communities, not a city with a core and a feeling. It is a disjointed set of developments and tract houses, and needs some kind of unifying factor other than the Hemisphere's worst pollution.
>
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

I agree with Researcher, the western fringe of the IE and
the eastern fringe of LA is a no man's land. It's true. Years ago
there were stations that served that area like KNTF, as well as
several AM's in Pommona. To live there it's not really the I.E.,
but it isn't LA either. There is a lot of potential local direct
business in the Upland, Ontario, Ranch C, etc.



> > >
> > It's a great market with underperforming salespeople.
>
> Any market that is 27th in population nad 50th nationally in
> billing is an awful market by any standards.
>
> > You
> > have 1.7 mil in the metro and growing (not to mention the
> 1
> > mil in the no man's land in between L.A. and the 15).
>
> There are 1.7 million in the metro. There is no "no man's
> land." You are either in LA metro or Riverside/SBD metro.
>
> > You
> > have a young population that spends more retail dollars
> than
> > overrated Orange County - and yet they aren't converting
> to
> > revenue.
>
> Because OC is in the LA metro, and Riverside is not. It is a
> shadow market, outside the top 25, and part of the LA HDA
> for TV. It is often forgotten for radio, and then bought at
> low rates on take it or leave it.
> >
> > Radio out there needs to program correctly - and local.
> > KGGI, KWIE, and KCAL do a good job of that. KXRS/KXSB do
> > decent revenue as well.
>
> That combo dies about $4.5 million, as the only viable ocal
> Spanish station in a market where 28% is Hispanic. That is
> horrible.
> >
> > I think the market underperforms because it isn't
> > consolidated and they are competing on rate - and we know
> > that a lot of agencies just use L.A. and take whatever
> spill
> > they get.
>
> Here we agree. And national does not often buy the market
> because it is not top 25, and they also get so much
> spillage. Of course, an LA station that mentions this as an
> additional value is dismissed summarily.
>
> Locally, the market is a collection of communities, not a
> city with a core and a feeling. It is a disjointed set of
> developments and tract houses, and needs some kind of
> unifying factor other than the Hemisphere's worst pollution.
>
> >
>
 
Yes, "Classic Hits" is NOT "Oldies"

> Looks like a 70's Classic Hits format to me. Hardly an
> Oldies station playlist!
>

I agree, but its not an "Oldies" station anymore! That is each of us here has their own peception of what "Oldies" means. To some the term means older songs than those currently out today. To others it may mean anything older than a decade ago. Still others refer to "Oldies" as what KOLA plays and other stations with a similar playlist.

To me "Oldies" means titles from rock'n'roll's emergence into popular music...think Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard era ... to the early 70s. That's why KOLA's playlist these days leaves me uninspired. BUT I know I am the exception to the "rule" :>)
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

> I agree with Researcher, the western fringe of the IE and
> the eastern fringe of LA is a no man's land. It's true.
> Years ago
> there were stations that served that area like KNTF, as well
> as
> several AM's in Pommona. To live there it's not really the
> I.E.,
> but it isn't LA either. There is a lot of potential local
> direct
> business in the Upland, Ontario, Ranch C, etc.

All those are in the Riverside market. The markets divide at the LA County line.

While there may be more overlap of LA stations there (KLAX, KXOL, KSSE, KRCV all only get to the 15 and noth beyond, for example), the market is defined by the county distinction.
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

> > I agree with Researcher, the western fringe of the IE and
> > the eastern fringe of LA is a no man's land. It's true.
> > Years ago
> > there were stations that served that area like KNTF, as
> well
> > as
> > several AM's in Pommona. To live there it's not really the
>
> > I.E.,
> > but it isn't LA either. There is a lot of potential local
> > direct
> > business in the Upland, Ontario, Ranch C, etc.
>
> All those are in the Riverside market. The markets divide at
> the LA County line.
>
> While there may be more overlap of LA stations there (KLAX,
> KXOL, KSSE, KRCV all only get to the 15 and noth beyond, for
> example), the market is defined by the county distinction.
>

David:

You are correct 99% of the time - but you are wrong. I do research in the market. The metro STARTS at the 15 ... anything west of that - and east of the L.A. County line is not assigned to either metro.
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

> You are correct 99% of the time - but you are wrong. I do
> research in the market. The metro STARTS at the 15 ...
> anything west of that - and east of the L.A. County line is
> not assigned to either metro.

Are you sure David didn't mean the TSA (Total Survey Area), which would include everything between I-15 and the L.A. County line?<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

>
> David:
>
> You are correct 99% of the time - but you are wrong. I do
> research in the market. The metro STARTS at the 15 ...
> anything west of that - and east of the L.A. County line is
> not assigned to either metro.

I taked to our Arbitron rep... he says that the area you refer to is the Riverside West Outer (which has two separate parts) and that it is one of the sampling units for the IE book.

In fact, I was referred to:

http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/Arb_US_Metro_Map_05.pdf

And I pulled up the market in Maximiser and the sample units for the market MSA are:

Riverside West Inner Balance
Riverside West Outer
Riverside West Inner HDHA
SB West Inner HDHA
SB West Inner Balance
SB West Outer
SB West Remainder Balance
SB West Remainder HDHA

Still, since Arbitron data should be confirmed at least twice, I just wrote to the sample frame people to verify)
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

> >
> > David:
> >
> > You are correct 99% of the time - but you are wrong. I do
> > research in the market. The metro STARTS at the 15 ...
> > anything west of that - and east of the L.A. County line
> is
> > not assigned to either metro.
>
> I taked to our Arbitron rep... he says that the area you
> refer to is the Riverside West Outer (which has two separate
> parts) and that it is one of the sampling units for the IE
> book.
>
> In fact, I was referred to:
>
> http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/Arb_US_Metro_Map_05.pdf
>
> And I pulled up the market in Maximiser and the sample units
> for the market MSA are:
>
> Riverside West Inner Balance
> Riverside West Outer
> Riverside West Inner HDHA
> SB West Inner HDHA
> SB West Inner Balance
> SB West Outer
> SB West Remainder Balance
> SB West Remainder HDHA
>
> Still, since Arbitron data should be confirmed at least
> twice, I just wrote to the sample frame people to verify)
>
They are part of the TSA - but not the Metro. KGGI has the largest cume. I just pulled up PD Advantage and there's no Ontario, Rancho, or any other city in San Bernardino county listed.


The only areas surveyed for the metro are Riverside West Inner and San Bernardino West Inner. The rest are TSA and done in spring and fall - and we both know none those go into the L.A. metro.
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

> The only areas surveyed for the metro are Riverside West
> Inner and San Bernardino West Inner. The rest are TSA and
> done in spring and fall - and we both know none those go
> into the L.A. metro.

All right, enough with the nitpicking.

Whether or not the disputed area is in the metro matters little when we are talking about the ratings, and you know that.

And no one claimed the disputed area was part of the L.A. metro either.

Don't make me close the thread.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Learned Something.

> > >
> > > You are correct 99% of the time - but you are wrong. I
> do
> > > research in the market. The metro STARTS at the 15 ...
> > > anything west of that - and east of the L.A. County line
>
> > is
> > > not assigned to either metro.
> >
> > I taked to our Arbitron rep... he says that the area you
> > refer to is the Riverside West Outer (which has two
> separate
> > parts) and that it is one of the sampling units for the IE
>
> > book.
> >
> > In fact, I was referred to:
> >
> > http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/Arb_US_Metro_Map_05.pdf
> >
> > And I pulled up the market in Maximiser and the sample
> units
> > for the market MSA are:
> >
> > Riverside West Inner Balance
> > Riverside West Outer
> > Riverside West Inner HDHA
> > SB West Inner HDHA
> > SB West Inner Balance
> > SB West Outer
> > SB West Remainder Balance
> > SB West Remainder HDHA
> >
> > Still, since Arbitron data should be confirmed at least
> > twice, I just wrote to the sample frame people to verify)
> >
> They are part of the TSA - but not the Metro. KGGI has the
> largest cume. I just pulled up PD Advantage and there's no
> Ontario, Rancho, or any other city in San Bernardino county
> listed.
>
>
> The only areas surveyed for the metro are Riverside West
> Inner and San Bernardino West Inner. The rest are TSA and
> done in spring and fall - and we both know none those go
> into the L.A. metro.
>

Well, I may have learned something very useful today. I would trust your knowledge of your market more than mine in this case, despite the claim from my Arbitron rep. I think he was confusing the TSA, too.

In 14 years in LA, I did not realize that this very populated area was not part of either MSA. that seems so absurd, too.

Why wouldn't either the LA subscribers or the IE subscribers want the extra persons they would pick up? It would allow higher rates, among other things.

Do you know if any effort has been made to put this area in either the LA or IE MSAs? I know that about 17 years ago, several LA broadcasters (headed by KTNQ and KLVE) lobbied Arbitron to add the whole IE to the MSA, but they were voted down by the many smaller signalled stations who also subscribed and could vote.

I wonder what Arbitron will tell me on Monday (probably while I spend 9 hours on a plane). I will report.
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

> > The only areas surveyed for the metro are Riverside West
> > Inner and San Bernardino West Inner. The rest are TSA and
> > done in spring and fall - and we both know none those go
> > into the L.A. metro.
>
> All right, enough with the nitpicking.
>
> Whether or not the disputed area is in the metro matters
> little when we are talking about the ratings, and you know
> that.
>
> And no one claimed the disputed area was part of the L.A.
> metro either.
>
> Don't make me close the thread.

Au contraire. This is pretty interesting and has wowed me, in fact. Researcher has brought up something potentially very interesting. A big chunk of the Riverside County area closest to the LA County line is not part of the regular MSA numbers of either LA or the IE. Why?

Nobody really looks at TSA numbers, so this is truly a no man's land, and I would love to know why neither market claims the area for the MSA. I wrote to Arbitron, and will report back. While the measurement of CA extends to the backwaters of Bishop and Brawlye and Blyth, an area that must have a half million to maybe a million people is in neither market! That could put the IE MSA into the top 25, easily... maybe into the top 15 if there are 800 thousand 12+ persons there!
 
Re: Learned Something.

> > > >
> > > > You are correct 99% of the time - but you are wrong. I
>
> > do
> > > > research in the market. The metro STARTS at the 15
> ...
> > > > anything west of that - and east of the L.A. County
> line
> >
> > > is
> > > > not assigned to either metro.
> > >
> > > I taked to our Arbitron rep... he says that the area you
>
> > > refer to is the Riverside West Outer (which has two
> > separate
> > > parts) and that it is one of the sampling units for the
> IE
> >
> > > book.
> > >
> > > In fact, I was referred to:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/Arb_US_Metro_Map_05.pdf
> > >
> > > And I pulled up the market in Maximiser and the sample
> > units
> > > for the market MSA are:
> > >
> > > Riverside West Inner Balance
> > > Riverside West Outer
> > > Riverside West Inner HDHA
> > > SB West Inner HDHA
> > > SB West Inner Balance
> > > SB West Outer
> > > SB West Remainder Balance
> > > SB West Remainder HDHA
> > >
> > > Still, since Arbitron data should be confirmed at least
> > > twice, I just wrote to the sample frame people to
> verify)
> > >
> > They are part of the TSA - but not the Metro. KGGI has the
>
> > largest cume. I just pulled up PD Advantage and there's no
>
> > Ontario, Rancho, or any other city in San Bernardino
> county
> > listed.
> >
> >
> > The only areas surveyed for the metro are Riverside West
> > Inner and San Bernardino West Inner. The rest are TSA and
> > done in spring and fall - and we both know none those go
> > into the L.A. metro.
> >
>
> Well, I may have learned something very useful today. I
> would trust your knowledge of your market more than mine in
> this case, despite the claim from my Arbitron rep. I think
> he was confusing the TSA, too.
>
> In 14 years in LA, I did not realize that this very
> populated area was not part of either MSA. that seems so
> absurd, too.
>
> Why wouldn't either the LA subscribers or the IE subscribers
> want the extra persons they would pick up? It would allow
> higher rates, among other things.
>
> Do you know if any effort has been made to put this area in
> either the LA or IE MSAs? I know that about 17 years ago,
> several LA broadcasters (headed by KTNQ and KLVE) lobbied
> Arbitron to add the whole IE to the MSA, but they were voted
> down by the many smaller signalled stations who also
> subscribed and could vote.
>
> I wonder what Arbitron will tell me on Monday (probably
> while I spend 9 hours on a plane). I will report.
>

David:

Until I went and did work in Riverside - I didn't know that either. Obviously, it takes a lot to stump you. But, since you don't have a station in Riverside, I can understand how it wouldn't be meaningful to your situation.

When I first got involved in Riverside, I was told that L.A. lobbied for this area - but that they needed I believe a two-thirds majority to add to the metro - and they couldn't get it.

If I am correct, they also do a study about radio listening in the area - and the number of commuters (don't hold me to that one). But, apparently, there either wasn't enough listening to I.E. stations or too many people had work zips in the L.A. metro for it to be added to Riverside.

That area is now over 500,000 people - which obviously for the I.E. would bring us to well over 2.2 million. I don't know, whether we could get the votes.

The top rankers in this area (for fall)

1 KOST
2 KIIS
3 KCBS
4 KFI
5 KGGI
6 KPWR
7 KLOS
8 KLVE
9 KLSX
9 KSCA

Other I.E. stations:

12 KFRG
17 KCXX
21 KOLA
26 KDAI
28 KCAL
33 KWIE

KXRS, KXSB, and KATY didn't show at all. I doubt they could come close to the two-thirds of the I.E.

For L.A, I would guess KJLH, KKBT, KXOL, KYSR, and some others would probably vote against it. It would help the 93.5 synchrocast - so they would probably vote yes. And, it would be smart for Univision as KRCV came in 17th (and KSCA, KLVE were top ten).

It is a shame that it's not included somewhere - because it's a huge area with significant retail business...

I do know that in Riverside - the AE's sell to the local businesses in those areas (Ontario Mills would be crazy not to market to the I.E.).
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

David eats Humble Pie for once.:) As I mentioned in previous posts
Radio Researcher was spot-on. This corridor of the 10 & 15 operates
in a vacuam.


> >
> > David:
> >
> > You are correct 99% of the time - but you are wrong. I do
> > research in the market. The metro STARTS at the 15 ...
> > anything west of that - and east of the L.A. County line
> is
> > not assigned to either metro.
>
> I taked to our Arbitron rep... he says that the area you
> refer to is the Riverside West Outer (which has two separate
> parts) and that it is one of the sampling units for the IE
> book.
>
> In fact, I was referred to:
>
> http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/Arb_US_Metro_Map_05.pdf
>
> And I pulled up the market in Maximiser and the sample units
> for the market MSA are:
>
> Riverside West Inner Balance
> Riverside West Outer
> Riverside West Inner HDHA
> SB West Inner HDHA
> SB West Inner Balance
> SB West Outer
> SB West Remainder Balance
> SB West Remainder HDHA
>
> Still, since Arbitron data should be confirmed at least
> twice, I just wrote to the sample frame people to verify)
>
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

> David eats Humble Pie for once.:) As I mentioned in previous
> posts
> Radio Researcher was spot-on. This corridor of the 10 & 15
> operates
> in a vacuam.

Gloating won't make anyone want to agree with you in the future.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

> > David eats Humble Pie for once.:) As I mentioned in
> previous
> > posts
> > Radio Researcher was spot-on. This corridor of the 10 & 15
>
> > operates
> > in a vacuam.
>
> Gloating won't make anyone want to agree with you in the
> future.
>

I know I'm not gloating. I think David is one of the brightest smartest people on the board. It was about sharing information, not being right.
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

My post was tongue in cheek,David is very knowledgable-but
c'mon he will argue topics to death. He did the right thing
this time.


> > > David eats Humble Pie for once.:) As I mentioned in
> > previous
> > > posts
> > > Radio Researcher was spot-on. This corridor of the 10 &
> 15
> >
> > > operates
> > > in a vacuam.
> >
> > Gloating won't make anyone want to agree with you in the
> > future.
> >
>
> I know I'm not gloating. I think David is one of the
> brightest smartest people on the board. It was about sharing
> information, not being right.
>
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

>
> I know I'm not gloating. I think David is one of the
> brightest smartest people on the board. It was about sharing
> information, not being right.
>

The amaszing thing is that I was not the only ignorant fool on this subject. I called a variety of friends, in programming and sales, including people at or formerly at cometitive stations and found that nobody knew of this no-man's land.

Fortunately, we subscribed to the IE book last year, so I can pull stats on the piece of geography. Now I have a number of people wondering whether this should belong to LA. Any population that swells the univers can increase revenues, as it affect CPP.

From my perspective, it is not a heavily Hispanic area, so could change the rank of Hispanic targeted staitons some. But the revenue gains are probably greater in the long run.
 
Re: KFRG REACTS!

> >
> > I know I'm not gloating. I think David is one of the
> > brightest smartest people on the board. It was about
> sharing
> > information, not being right.
> >
>
> The amaszing thing is that I was not the only ignorant fool
> on this subject. I called a variety of friends, in
> programming and sales, including people at or formerly at
> cometitive stations and found that nobody knew of this
> no-man's land.
>
> Fortunately, we subscribed to the IE book last year, so I
> can pull stats on the piece of geography. Now I have a
> number of people wondering whether this should belong to LA.
> Any population that swells the univers can increase
> revenues, as it affect CPP.
>
> From my perspective, it is not a heavily Hispanic area, so
> could change the rank of Hispanic targeted staitons some.
> But the revenue gains are probably greater in the long run.
>
David:

I tend to agree with you. Right now, I work with stations in BOTH markets, and while I'd love to see the I.E. have this (I think the lifestyle is more I.E.) - the listening patterns seem to be more L.A. - and would actually hurt how the I.E. stations perform in the Riverside book.
 
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