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KOMO's 'Northwest Afternoon' ceases end of August
- Thread starter CyBeer
- Start date
One more nail in the coffin of "live and local".
Looks like local TV is going the way of local radio and the dodo.
With a cable penetration of 85%+ why do we need local TV stations and their transmitters anyhow? Why don't the syndicators skip the "middleman" (TV stations) and just make their shows available direct to us via sat/cable or on demand on the WWW...?
Looks like local TV is going the way of local radio and the dodo.
With a cable penetration of 85%+ why do we need local TV stations and their transmitters anyhow? Why don't the syndicators skip the "middleman" (TV stations) and just make their shows available direct to us via sat/cable or on demand on the WWW...?
TowerLamp said:
The idea that people don't watch or listen to "local stations" is not quite true. People DO watch/listen for and desire "local for local"....however, you brought up an interesting point. If stations locally no longer care nor broadcast local stories, news and other local info for their local audiences, then why bother transmitting!
As for the transmitter itself, I agree that you could just shut off these electrical energy hogs and do away with over-the-air for TV transmitters at this point. The stations could save a lot of money doing this....but don't ask the engineers to hit the big switch OFF.....I think they just might know this too, but are too afraid of change. I can see the day coming soon when stations might look again at the option of just broadcasting on Broadband cable/Fiber.
If local stations continue to do away with "local programs", they effectively marginalize themselves into "just another channel" with no meaningful difference between the rest of the pack. They will be just another number on the long list of other channels that come across your cable box.
Local stations transmit because the licenses have tons of money invested in what are still cash cows. The local furniture store can't spend a huge budget on a national station. Yes, they can buy local cable, but in many cases it's less cost effective to buy every "zone" in a market.
Meanwhile I give prop's to BELO for keeping "Up Front" on the air after Robert Mak departure. Would be easy to say "good time to shut it down" .... but it's a valuable service (I don't know the ratings story). Am glad they stand by keeping it on the air. Miss KOMO's Town Meeting (this week's special aside...) -- another victim of a lack of enthusiasm for firing up the lighting grid on a Sunday and talking trash about politics.
When FCC was doing their hearings I proposed that stations MUST submit a "status report" for renewal (currently FCC renewals are basically easier than renewing a credit card). Once every "x" years, you'd have to file some {gasp} PAPERWORK ... and say "here's what we did with those airwaves since we last talked to you". Didn't have to be competitive, etc. ... but just enough to remind them the report better look GOOD. If the best you can offer is "we were a CW affiliate..." so be it. But if you're operating one of the bigger toys, there BETTER be some community support in there ... whether it's something like Children's Miracle Network, or extended news coverage when it mattered, or whatever.
Then the CW (or something like Trib/10-22) example also lends itself to a track record when a new signal comes to market. You did well with the first one? When new allocation comes out you get preferential treatment for the new appl. Just ran satellite repeater? Then let's see who else is in the stack with a better application for the new signal.
And ... would you believe ... the broadcasting lobby HATED that concept! Wasn't even proposing local doctrine or fairness or minimum news/public affairs ... just PROVE you did something with the license. They wanted no part of that.
Tells me a lot.
Bummed about NWA ending. Like "Seattle Today" or "Seattle Tonight/Tonight" or "Almost Live" ... they all filled a niche around here. Even Shafer's show on KIRO-TV was a valiant attempt. And about 4-6 months ago the bulldozers just leveled THAT studio too.
When FCC was doing their hearings I proposed that stations MUST submit a "status report" for renewal (currently FCC renewals are basically easier than renewing a credit card). Once every "x" years, you'd have to file some {gasp} PAPERWORK ... and say "here's what we did with those airwaves since we last talked to you". Didn't have to be competitive, etc. ... but just enough to remind them the report better look GOOD. If the best you can offer is "we were a CW affiliate..." so be it. But if you're operating one of the bigger toys, there BETTER be some community support in there ... whether it's something like Children's Miracle Network, or extended news coverage when it mattered, or whatever.
Then the CW (or something like Trib/10-22) example also lends itself to a track record when a new signal comes to market. You did well with the first one? When new allocation comes out you get preferential treatment for the new appl. Just ran satellite repeater? Then let's see who else is in the stack with a better application for the new signal.
And ... would you believe ... the broadcasting lobby HATED that concept! Wasn't even proposing local doctrine or fairness or minimum news/public affairs ... just PROVE you did something with the license. They wanted no part of that.
Tells me a lot.
Bummed about NWA ending. Like "Seattle Today" or "Seattle Tonight/Tonight" or "Almost Live" ... they all filled a niche around here. Even Shafer's show on KIRO-TV was a valiant attempt. And about 4-6 months ago the bulldozers just leveled THAT studio too.
K
Kelly
Guest
I can't speak to the situation at KOMO TV that has forced them to make the decision to drop Northwest Afternoon, but let's take a look at the situation from a different, higher-level perspective for a moment..
You are a major market TV station General Manager. Your job is to make the shareholders, (aka owners of the company), money. You have a locally produced show that has for whatever reasons, declining ratings and increased cost of production. In the case of Almost Live, ratings during a time slot that doesn't command much in the way of local ad revenue to support the cost of production. Now add in an economic decline that effects ad revenue in all dayparts. So all you armchair GM's are going to tell me here that in the real role of GM, you would keep a declining, yet more expensive show on? Really? Well I have to say you wouldn't be a GM for very long. Perhaps you could take a job giving away free food to people who asked for it while working at the Taco Bell drive through. Oh wait, you wouldn't last long in that job very long either.
Okay now let's look at it from yet another angle. If you are so sad that a show like Northwest Afternoon is being pulled, then perhaps you should ask yourself: "When was the last time I purchased products or services from the advertisers of NWA?" Or.. "When was the last time I participated in a promotion for the show, sent an E-mail to the GM thanking them for what a fine public service the station was performing by having the locally produced show on?" My guess is the answer would be never, and never.
So its all well and good that we can sit at our keyboards pontificating about how the good old days were when radio and TV were the only electronic media consumers had. Those were the good old days, I agree completely. The fact remain those days are over. Want to see the reason times are changing for good old radio and TV? You're looking at it right now, and reading my comments on it.
You are a major market TV station General Manager. Your job is to make the shareholders, (aka owners of the company), money. You have a locally produced show that has for whatever reasons, declining ratings and increased cost of production. In the case of Almost Live, ratings during a time slot that doesn't command much in the way of local ad revenue to support the cost of production. Now add in an economic decline that effects ad revenue in all dayparts. So all you armchair GM's are going to tell me here that in the real role of GM, you would keep a declining, yet more expensive show on? Really? Well I have to say you wouldn't be a GM for very long. Perhaps you could take a job giving away free food to people who asked for it while working at the Taco Bell drive through. Oh wait, you wouldn't last long in that job very long either.
Okay now let's look at it from yet another angle. If you are so sad that a show like Northwest Afternoon is being pulled, then perhaps you should ask yourself: "When was the last time I purchased products or services from the advertisers of NWA?" Or.. "When was the last time I participated in a promotion for the show, sent an E-mail to the GM thanking them for what a fine public service the station was performing by having the locally produced show on?" My guess is the answer would be never, and never.
So its all well and good that we can sit at our keyboards pontificating about how the good old days were when radio and TV were the only electronic media consumers had. Those were the good old days, I agree completely. The fact remain those days are over. Want to see the reason times are changing for good old radio and TV? You're looking at it right now, and reading my comments on it.
Kelly makes some excellent points. I would remind everyone to look at this from yet another angle. TV and Radio have been abandoning their local content. More and more viewers + listeners are leaving as a result.
Ratings are now down and we all know that there are less viewers/listeners are using the respected mediums today.
I'm not saying that the Internet and other forms of technology aren't part of the picture and the $$ issue, but neither is this: the fact is that had the stations stayed with their local programming they would more than notice LOYALTY to the local station of choice. The Profiters simply got greedy and they wanted more and more....bad programming is that result (look at NBC's lineup as an example) and it drives people away from your station and from your network.
Someone brought up KING 5's "Almost Live" show....if some of you look the next time there's an overnight ratings sheet available, it still does very well with the numbers, despite the show having aged somewhat.
I also take issue with $$ and KOMO radio's broadcast of the Mariners. We all know that KOMO isn't making much on the actual games they air, but because it's a local team on a local station, people are starting to go back to that "local station" and it's helping AM 1000 gain huge numbers throughout their books.
Here's my take on this: Radio and TV outlets use the Public's airwaves (ya I'm old skool) and they have an obligation and commitment to their local area of service. Bottom line NOT!! It's not always about the almighty $$ dollar. You need to give to your community too....it will pay your station back with loyalty in the end.
Ratings are now down and we all know that there are less viewers/listeners are using the respected mediums today.
I'm not saying that the Internet and other forms of technology aren't part of the picture and the $$ issue, but neither is this: the fact is that had the stations stayed with their local programming they would more than notice LOYALTY to the local station of choice. The Profiters simply got greedy and they wanted more and more....bad programming is that result (look at NBC's lineup as an example) and it drives people away from your station and from your network.
Someone brought up KING 5's "Almost Live" show....if some of you look the next time there's an overnight ratings sheet available, it still does very well with the numbers, despite the show having aged somewhat.
I also take issue with $$ and KOMO radio's broadcast of the Mariners. We all know that KOMO isn't making much on the actual games they air, but because it's a local team on a local station, people are starting to go back to that "local station" and it's helping AM 1000 gain huge numbers throughout their books.
Here's my take on this: Radio and TV outlets use the Public's airwaves (ya I'm old skool) and they have an obligation and commitment to their local area of service. Bottom line NOT!! It's not always about the almighty $$ dollar. You need to give to your community too....it will pay your station back with loyalty in the end.
S
SeattleRadioPro
Guest
radioplayer said:
If you're a company CEO, try telling THAT to your stockholders. You'll be pulling shifts at the Taco Bell before you know it.
I used to record the voice tracks of Dana Middleton and Dick Foley doing the promos. Sometimes a whole weeks worth at once.
They did them with such conviction!
I never had the chutzpah to ask if they had any interest, sincerety or conviction about those shitty, shallow, gossipy airhead topics the show always covered.
They were too professional to ever say anything negative in front of me anway...but seemed way too smart to actually believe any of that crap.
They did them with such conviction!
I never had the chutzpah to ask if they had any interest, sincerety or conviction about those shitty, shallow, gossipy airhead topics the show always covered.
They were too professional to ever say anything negative in front of me anway...but seemed way too smart to actually believe any of that crap.
This is a $ based biz, radio and TV, period. I'm sure Upfront covers a PSA requirement and is low cost, not NWA. Production and talent cost have to be massive.
The fact that the show has been on for over 23 years is incredible. Hats off to the Fishers who kept a local show on for that long!! Now you have shareholders that demand results.
The Mariners and KOMO 1000 are a good fit. I would be amazed if KOMO 1000 was making any money. The overhead for this station has to be staggering. Without the Mariners, I predict this station will become little more than a shell of what it is today, and be tossed onto the syndication junk pile. Sad, but most likely to happen.
The fact that the show has been on for over 23 years is incredible. Hats off to the Fishers who kept a local show on for that long!! Now you have shareholders that demand results.
The Mariners and KOMO 1000 are a good fit. I would be amazed if KOMO 1000 was making any money. The overhead for this station has to be staggering. Without the Mariners, I predict this station will become little more than a shell of what it is today, and be tossed onto the syndication junk pile. Sad, but most likely to happen.
Bill Virgin addresses the M's question in column today.
Meanwhile...Upfront vs. NWA and the issues of "armchair QBing the GM role" .... it's not just pining for "yesterday" that I raise in my points about media. Yes it's a business...and yes it's about appeasing the shareholders. But Shareholders have no ethical basis for their greed in these companies....they want the broadcast chain to give returns just like they want a Taco Time to give its returns.
But the difference is a Taco Time is not in a position of being entrusted with an asset OWNED by the public --- part of the limited electro-magnetic spectrum and, more significantly, the ability to influence people. That has always carried huge POWER ... and ideally is something that carries responsibility too. It USED to be that you accepted that responsibility BEFORE entering the business -- so expectations were set up front that it was part of the gig. Then greed, lobbying, etc. managed to get all the rules dropped or changed and now all we have left is essentially whack-job talk hosts who talk in extremes and get people all lathered up based on THEIR point of view. That's fine when it's ENTERTAINMENT ... but scares the hell out of me when we package it as news, because the percentage that can tell the difference (unless it is BLATANTLY spelled out for them) is not that significant. Yes...other media is getting in the way, and other media not subjected to the same weight that local broadcast stations are. People CHOOSE a web site because of its slant, bias, etc. Several in this thread have cited the reason for existence of the MAJOR broadcast operations is local information --- and that carries an expectation for maturity on the part of the operators to deliver that part of the product. When they fail, people will likely turn to new media to fill the void --- expensive as that proposition is ... and THEN we are no longer subject to the underlying expectation of public service COUPLED with business profitability.
Meanwhile...Upfront vs. NWA and the issues of "armchair QBing the GM role" .... it's not just pining for "yesterday" that I raise in my points about media. Yes it's a business...and yes it's about appeasing the shareholders. But Shareholders have no ethical basis for their greed in these companies....they want the broadcast chain to give returns just like they want a Taco Time to give its returns.
But the difference is a Taco Time is not in a position of being entrusted with an asset OWNED by the public --- part of the limited electro-magnetic spectrum and, more significantly, the ability to influence people. That has always carried huge POWER ... and ideally is something that carries responsibility too. It USED to be that you accepted that responsibility BEFORE entering the business -- so expectations were set up front that it was part of the gig. Then greed, lobbying, etc. managed to get all the rules dropped or changed and now all we have left is essentially whack-job talk hosts who talk in extremes and get people all lathered up based on THEIR point of view. That's fine when it's ENTERTAINMENT ... but scares the hell out of me when we package it as news, because the percentage that can tell the difference (unless it is BLATANTLY spelled out for them) is not that significant. Yes...other media is getting in the way, and other media not subjected to the same weight that local broadcast stations are. People CHOOSE a web site because of its slant, bias, etc. Several in this thread have cited the reason for existence of the MAJOR broadcast operations is local information --- and that carries an expectation for maturity on the part of the operators to deliver that part of the product. When they fail, people will likely turn to new media to fill the void --- expensive as that proposition is ... and THEN we are no longer subject to the underlying expectation of public service COUPLED with business profitability.
It is a bit sad to see localism go away in both radio and TV. KOMO is to be commended for keeping Northwest Afternoon as long as they did.I actually thought the show was pretty well put together for a local talk show. Hosts over the years were solid, though I never got the Soap Lady thing. One hour of local non-news television in the afternoon is unheard of around the country. Times are tough in radio and tv and right now and from a sales perspective in tv it is news and prime time that brings in the ad dollars. Daytime TV is usually sold on a rotator basis and ratings have been in decline for years across the board in daytime as viewers flock to cable. I suspect the decision was less to do with keeping a local show and more to do with pumping dollars into news to compete for ratings and prime ad dollars. Local non-news talk shows died long ago, like block programming on radio.
From a sales perspective daytime TV is like nights in radio. Low cume, small audiences, cheap ads. The days of women staying at home watching TV and kids is long gone. Computers and IPODS have replaced TV sets at the workplace for entertainment. Sad to see a local show go, but understandable. I suspect Evening is not far behind. Many top 20 markets have no local non-news programming.
From a sales perspective daytime TV is like nights in radio. Low cume, small audiences, cheap ads. The days of women staying at home watching TV and kids is long gone. Computers and IPODS have replaced TV sets at the workplace for entertainment. Sad to see a local show go, but understandable. I suspect Evening is not far behind. Many top 20 markets have no local non-news programming.
radioplayer said:
This is just completely wrong. A few years back, a San Jose public TV station shut off its analog transmitter because they had lost the lease on their analog antenna site. They continued to broadcast OTA digital, but this was before digital tuners were built into most new televisions. They also continued to be offered on analog basic cable and over satellite.
Since the San Francisco/San Jose market is heavily cabled (slightly more so than even Seattle/Tacoma), the assumption was that they would only see a marginal audience drop. The reality was that they lost 40% of their audience. Even in a heavily cabled market, there are still a lot of OTA viewers -- and no commercial station wants to risk losing anywhere close to 40% of their audience.
And note that there are some with far lower cable/satellite penetration. Note that while Seattle/Tacoma is at 89% for cable & satellite, Spokane and Portland are both at 84%, Eugene is at 83%, Yakima at 82%, and Boise is at 74%. If a station in a market with over 90% cable/satellite penetration lost 40% of its audience when it lost its OTA audience, imagine what would happen in Boise. Or, for that matter, what would happen in Harlingen, TX, where cable/satellite penetration is hovering at 66%...
S
slickkicker
Guest
I don't get it. First this is a radio board and second the show was boring. Do you think that WCBS or WLS would do something like "Tri-State Afternoon"?
While we're on topic here will anyone acknowledge that Cisco and his gardening schtick is kind of creepy.
While we're on topic here will anyone acknowledge that Cisco and his gardening schtick is kind of creepy.
Here's the ironic thing about our corporately "beloved" shareholders: 99% of them ain't watching/listening to the crap they're investing in - the rest of us here locally do. And chances are, the shareholders have XM/Sirius, digital cable/satellite and the internet to entertain them. Why any of them still thinks investing in terrestrial radio/TV is such a damn wise move when they themselves have the funding and means (to say nothing of the sheer will) of escaping it beats me.
Now about NWA (the TV show, not the rap group), All I can say is the wrath of thousands of gossipy women and gay guys will be on KOMO come September. Poor Cindi Rinehart...well, they could always transfer her to sports. That same excitement and relish she has talking about the little dramas in soaps can really make her stand out in the little dramas in sports. It's really pretty much the same...
And ya gotta have a soft spot for Cisco. I only once watched his show and it was hilarious. I don't remember what the show was about (I'm the BLACK thumb of Death when it comes to plants), but all I remember was here he was yakking to the camera as poor Meeghan Black was behind him pushing heavy wheelbarrows, lumbering 50 lb. bags of soil on her back and digging in the dirt, doing all the manual hard labor and breaking a serious sweat as he explained one factoid after another about gardening for the camera.....
Now about NWA (the TV show, not the rap group), All I can say is the wrath of thousands of gossipy women and gay guys will be on KOMO come September. Poor Cindi Rinehart...well, they could always transfer her to sports. That same excitement and relish she has talking about the little dramas in soaps can really make her stand out in the little dramas in sports. It's really pretty much the same...
And ya gotta have a soft spot for Cisco. I only once watched his show and it was hilarious. I don't remember what the show was about (I'm the BLACK thumb of Death when it comes to plants), but all I remember was here he was yakking to the camera as poor Meeghan Black was behind him pushing heavy wheelbarrows, lumbering 50 lb. bags of soil on her back and digging in the dirt, doing all the manual hard labor and breaking a serious sweat as he explained one factoid after another about gardening for the camera.....
Bongwater said:
WIN-WIN!!
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