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KOVR/13 To -NOT- Go Regular Prime?

> > In San Francisco, all three network stations (KGO, KNTV,
> > KPIX) run the network at 5:30.
>
> I seem to remember KPIX used to air CBS E/N at 6pm.

They did until June of this year, when they cut the 5:00pm newscast from an hour to a half-hour, and stuck Schieffer at 5:30. KRON also replaced their 5:30pm newscast with The Insider, leaving KTVU as the only place for local news at 5:30 in the Bay Area.

KPIX explained the 6:00pm time for CBS Evening News as a "hold-over" from the early-prime experiment of the mid-Nineties.
 
> From the network perspective, having a 7-10 prime time keeps
> KOVR's audience from being incorporated into the national
> numbers they can use to sell the network's avails, as I
> understand it.
>
> Being the 19th market, that's not exactly chump change in
> the network's pocket. (Anyone with some factual data here?
>
> I suspect the issue would be whether KOVR's late news makes
> more profit than the loss of the network's prime time
> schedule in Sacramento.

I agree with this completely. I seriously doubt the ad revenues from the 10:00pm newscast come close to making up for the lost ad dollars from prime time. I could, however, be completely wrong and I'm sure someone on this board will be more than happy to point that out.

> Newscast ratings are often affected by the "lead in"... the show that's on
> before.

Exactly. I think the strength of CBS programming has more to do with KOVR's good numbers at 10:00pm than the time. I strongly believe that KOVR can carry its success at 10:00pm to 11:00pm, and I hope Viacom is willing to take the chance.

> And the issue isn't whether Viacom wants an 11 pm news in
> Sacramento... it's more "Do the market's viewers want to
> watch an 11 p.m. news on a Viacom station, here?"

I know that I would like another choice at 11:00pm besides the dismal offerings on KCRA and KXTV.
 
> > And the issue isn't whether Viacom wants an 11 pm news in
> > Sacramento... it's more "Do the market's viewers want to
> > watch an 11 p.m. news on a Viacom station, here?"
>
> I know that I would like another choice at 11:00pm besides
> the dismal offerings on KCRA and KXTV.

I will say this, as I travel on business to Sacramento several times a year: I do like being able to see Letterman earlier and not have to choose between being rested for morning meetings (skipping Dave) or staying up to watch.
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Late news in Sacramento-- and a couple of other thoughts--(was KOVR/13 To -NOT- Go Regular Prime?)

Ted wrote:
> > And the issue isn't whether Viacom wants an 11 pm news in
> > Sacramento... it's more "Do the market's viewers want to
> > watch an 11 p.m. news on a Viacom station, here?"

wxdude responded:
> I know that I would like another choice at 11:00pm besides
> the dismal offerings on KCRA and KXTV.

Ted queried:

I'm interested in knowing more about why you're unsatisfied. Maybe there are others like you... seeking another choice, although if it were a restaurant, you might not agree where to go.

What makes KCRA and KXTV "dismal?"

How would you suggest this proposed 11pm KOVR newscast be different from KCRA and KXTV's current offerings? Or KOVR's late news (aside from shorter)?

As far as what's available to work with... all stations have essentially the same local, national and world stories in the daily cycle. What they do with them is what makes them different.

It's kinda like two or three restaurants... they all have meat, fish, potatoes, tomatoes, other veggies to work with. The differences are in what the restaurant looks like, the servers' appearance and behavior, portions, how the food looks on the plate, the taste(s) and the price(s).

Use the restaurant metaphor, if you want, to draw some parallels between restaurants and the three stations you're talking about.

Are they Mc Donalds, Burger King, Jack In the Box, Carl's Jr., and Wendy's?

Or are we talking about Il Fornaio, Dawsons (at the Hyatt) or name your high end restaurant here.

(I personally like Maritime Seafood and Grill on First St. in (suprise!) Woodland... but that's another story...)

Or perhaps describe a station that HAS a newscast like the one you'd like to see in Sacramento... and tell how that differs from the other local 11 pm's.

Why would that type/style of newscast work here?

What's also important is what it would take in human and technical resources to pull off. (Cost)

And whether there are enough people who would watch that kind of newscast (whatever it turns out to be) with the right demographic profiles to sell to advertisers. (Profit potential.)

A few years ago, maybe around the time that KRON, 4, San Francisco went independent, KTVU, 2, Oakland's market leading and award-winning 10p.m "Ten O'Clock News" was repeated on sister KICU, 36, San Jose at 11 p.m., with updates to stories as needed. It didn't last very long.

I would gess the reason it was discontinued was the ratings didn't create enough ad revenue potential to offset what it cost in newsroom resources and/or didn't make as much profit as what it replaced or was replaced by.

The above paragraph got me to thinking about:

What would happen if CNN went beyond cable/satellite and began offering affiliations to carry all or parts of CNN (not Headline News... but CNN) over the air. (Or Fox News Channel, to be fair and balanced... ahem.)

A: Would it make a difference in overall eyeballs for the network and

B: Would it be enough to take a marginally viewed station trying to position itself as the "GO-TO" news channel in a region and bump it into better stats in the long-haul.. not just when some big story causes a spike.

Ted.
 
>
> I will say this, as I travel on business to Sacramento
> several times a year: I do like being able to see Letterman
> earlier and not have to choose between being rested for
> morning meetings (skipping Dave) or staying up to watch.
>
Who do you consult in Sacto?

Is it just me, or is KCRA TV news a shadow of it's former self?
 
> Who do you consult in Sacto?

It's not a market where I have a client (and if I did, I wouldn't say; I have an agreement with my clients not to reveal them, unless they wish. I consult several stations who don't want the rest of the market knowing they have one); I am also involved in an organization that lobbies Sacramento for increased transportation funding.

> Is it just me, or is KCRA TV news a shadow of it's former
> self?

It's not you. KCRA has fallen victim to the same malady that affects many, many other stations' news operations ... more sizzle, less steak. And I have a perspective on that going back more than 30 years; as a child, I visited my uncle and aunt in Modesto every summer. Guess which station they watched for news?
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</P>
 
The KOVR 10 PM Money Machine

> I agree with this completely. I seriously doubt the ad
> revenues from the 10:00pm newscast come close to making up
> for the lost ad dollars from prime time. I could, however,
> be completely wrong and I'm sure someone on this board will
> be more than happy to point that out.

Well, from what I'm hearing, you are wrong. ;)

I don't know the numbers. But from what I have heard, from pretty good sources, the 10 PM newscast brings in a LOT of money for KOVR. It's apparently enough to have them consider not moving the prime time schedule back to 8-11 PM. Money is solely the issue here.

Remember, at 7-10 PM, KOVR locally is not "losing" ad dollars from prime time. They're still selling spots in that hole. The only question is - how much more money would they make moving prime time to 8-11, and is that enough to make up for losing money they're making off the 10 PM show now?

> Exactly. I think the strength of CBS programming has more
> to do with KOVR's good numbers at 10:00pm than the time. I
> strongly believe that KOVR can carry its success at 10:00pm
> to 11:00pm, and I hope Viacom is willing to take the chance.

It's quite possible they could do OK at 11. KCRA is not what it used to be, for one (as many have pointed out). But it's still dominant, and KXTV is as always a strong second.

From what I hear (again, pretty good sources), Viacom considers the money issue to be the primary reason for not moving the 10 PM show to 11. They could do well, they could make some money, but I don't think they'd move it if they didn't think they could knock off KCRA at 11.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>
 
> Ditto Seattle. KOMO and KING airs it at 6pm, and KIRO airs
> it at 5:30. KIRO used to air CBS Evening News at 6 as well;
> they only moved it to 5:30 within the last year.

If you go to Portland(Ore.), its a different story: KATU-2(ABC) has "World News Tonight" at 6PM while KOIN-6(CBS) and KGW-8(NBC) air their network newscast at 5:30PM.

> > In San Francisco, all three network stations (KGO, KNTV,
> > KPIX) run the network at 5:30.

They do that in the Yakima/Tri-Cities area, with KIMA-29/KEPR-19/KLEW-3(CBS), KNDO-23/KNDU-25(NBC) and KAPP-35/KVEW-42(ABC) airing theirs at 5:30PM

Same story in Spokane with KREM-2(CBS), KXLY-4(ABC) and KHQ-6(NBC). Interestingly these same three stations used to air local news at 5:30 followed by network news at 6PM in the 1970s. But by the 1980s they moved their network newscasts up to 5:30 when they began adding local 5 and 6PM newscasts.
 
How many of us remember when the network evening newscasts used to air at 7p.m... in the days before the Prime Time Access Rule (PTAR) took effect?

That FCC decision kept networks out of the hour before prime time begins.

With the commute times in some of the major markets, I wonder whether it would make audience-catching sense to air the network news then... except for running into the problem of PTAR and affiliates not wanting to give up the time they make good money with from syndicated shows or locally produced magazine shows (in SF, I'm thinking of Evening or whatever else KPIX might be producing.)

Ted.


> > > In San Francisco, all three network stations (KGO, KNTV,
>
> > > KPIX) run the network at 5:30.
> >
> > I seem to remember KPIX used to air CBS E/N at 6pm.
>
> They did until June of this year, when they cut the 5:00pm
> newscast from an hour to a half-hour, and stuck Schieffer at
> 5:30. KRON also replaced their 5:30pm newscast with The
> Insider, leaving KTVU as the only place for local news at
> 5:30 in the Bay Area.
>
> KPIX explained the 6:00pm time for CBS Evening News as a
> "hold-over" from the early-prime experiment of the
> mid-Nineties.
>
 
> I remember Cronkite and Huntley/Brinkley running at 7:00, but I don't think the Prime Time Access rule effected 7:00 to 7:30. I lived in LA at the time, and (if I'm remembering correctly), two of the three O&O network stations (KNBC and KNXT) continued to run the news at 7:00 for quite a few years after PTAR. KABC aired their network news earlier, and ran heavily edited movies from 6:00 to 7:30 in those days. I believe the PTAR only effected 7:30-8:00. Before PTAR, prime-time network programs began at 7:30, not 8:00. The intent of this well-meaning legislation - a bit of typical 60s social engineering - was to turn that half-hour over the the local stations, which would supposedly air consciousness raising, educational, and locally produced programs during that time. Of course, most stations just plugged in sitcom reruns, or syndicated game shows. I guess you could consider the "Evening" or "PM" Magazine shows a partial exception, but they were usually 50% syndicated content in any case. The media activits who had pushed for PTAR became very angry that the stations had not gone along with the spirit of PTAR, though they happily obeyed the law to make more local revenue. As I remember, the decision later by most affiliates in most cities to run network news earlier was an attempt to free up the well watched 7:00-7:30 time slot so they could sell ALL of the commercial time.


How many of us remember when the network evening newscasts
> used to air at 7p.m... in the days before the Prime Time
> Access Rule (PTAR) took effect?
>
> That FCC decision kept networks out of the hour before prime
> time begins.
>
> With the commute times in some of the major markets, I
> wonder whether it would make audience-catching sense to air
> the network news then... except for running into the problem
> of PTAR and affiliates not wanting to give up the time they
> make good money with from syndicated shows or locally
> produced magazine shows (in SF, I'm thinking of Evening or
> whatever else KPIX might be producing.)
>
> Ted.
>
>
> > > > In San Francisco, all three network stations (KGO,
> KNTV,
> >
> > > > KPIX) run the network at 5:30.
> > >
> > > I seem to remember KPIX used to air CBS E/N at 6pm.
> >
> > They did until June of this year, when they cut the 5:00pm
>
> > newscast from an hour to a half-hour, and stuck Schieffer
> at
> > 5:30. KRON also replaced their 5:30pm newscast with The
> > Insider, leaving KTVU as the only place for local news at
> > 5:30 in the Bay Area.
> >
> > KPIX explained the 6:00pm time for CBS Evening News as a
> > "hold-over" from the early-prime experiment of the
> > mid-Nineties.
> >
>
 
>
> With the commute times in some of the major markets, I
> wonder whether it would make audience-catching sense to air
> the network news then... except for running into the problem
> of PTAR and affiliates not wanting to give up the time they
> make good money with from syndicated shows or locally
> produced magazine shows (in SF, I'm thinking of Evening or
> whatever else KPIX might be producing.)

KPIX is still doing Evening. Everyone else is doing syndicated stuff, except for the Filipino news on Channel 26.

I think you have hit on why KRON's 9 pm news has done surprisingly well. Obviously, the networks aren't going to let their O&O's try a newscast at that hour. What does surprise me is that KRON still is running an 11 pm cast instead of trying to go head to head with KTVU at 10 pm. Unfortunately, as it is, the KRON newscasts are looking more and more strained. The lack of resources is starting to show.
 
> I remember Cronkite and Huntley/Brinkley running at 7:00,
> but I don't think the Prime Time Access rule effected 7:00
> to 7:30. I lived in LA at the time, and (if I'm remembering
> correctly), two of the three O&O network stations (KNBC and
> KNXT) continued to run the news at 7:00 for quite a few
> years after PTAR.

PTAR did apply to the 7:00 to 7:30 half hour, but it included an exemption that allowed stations to continue running the network news at 7:00 PM if the network news ran adjacent to a local newscast that was at least 60 minutes long. Also, note that PTAR did not apply outside the top 50 television markets, which meant that small market stations were free to continue running the network news at 7:00 PM even if they only ran a 30 minute local newscast.

Obviously, the LA stations were using the first exemption.

> intent of this well-meaning legislation - a bit of typical
> 60s social engineering - was to turn that half-hour over the
> the local stations, which would supposedly air consciousness
> raising, educational, and locally produced programs during
> that time. Of course, most stations just plugged in sitcom
> reruns, or syndicated game shows.

One unintended consequence of the rule was that it increased the viability of independent stations by ensuring that these stations would only be competing against network primetime for 3 hours instead of 3 1/2 hours per night. Since many of these stations did pretty well in the ratings with their late afternoon/early evening fare, but tanked in primetime, that extra 30 minutes did make a difference. In the top 50 markets, PTAR also gave independent stations the exclusive right to air off-network reruns in the hour before primetime (7:00 to 8:00 PM ET/PT, 6:00 to 7:00 PM CT/MT). Essentially, the independent stations were able to use the off-network reruns as counter programming to the game shows and the like that filled that hour on network affiliates.
 
A few years ago, maybe around the time that KRON, 4, San Francisco went independent, KTVU, 2, Oakland's market leading and award-winning 10p.m "Ten O'Clock News" was repeated on sister KICU, 36, San Jose at 11 p.m., with updates to stories as needed. It didn't last very long.
Click to expand...

The Rebroadcast of Channel 2's 10 o'clock news on KICU started from January, 2000, (After KICU was purchased by COX) until September 14, 2001.
 
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