KPNW back to Country?

[TheBigA]

Buy 2, get 1 free?

Lotus isn't using the official Hank logo or positioning phrase in Seattle or Boise. They are in Reno.

 

[Kelly A]

Discount from whom?

Office stationary.

 

[RadioRon]

Good possibility that Lotus may be taking in some cash from the syndicator, at least for Seattle. I believe that Seattle is Hank’s largest market. Not uncommon for a syndicator/network to offer up some compensation for a station to clear their (in the case), format and network spots.

 

[OldYeller]

Eggs are cheaper by the dozen. Fact.

 

[semoochie]

Eggs are cheaper by the dozen. Fact.

That's true. I find it difficult to purchase one egg!

 

[AuxRSS]

Services — Kroeger Media

www.kroegermedia.com

Thanks for sharing the link. Had no idea the format originated in Indianapolis.

Some chatter earlier in the thread questioned how "classic" the country on KPLZ is. I've dropped in on some daypart hours over the weekends and the answer is IMO not very. Unlike what the blurb in the link says, their main playlist spans 1990-2020 (up to the pandemic year) and covers the hits, with the exception of the bro country of the 2010s. During a set they billboarded one legit classic country hit, Willie Nelson's "Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Cowboys."

It sounds very bright and listenable on FM, I'll give it that. Unlike KXA, Hank FM airs no Hank Senior. Despite that, I do believe it distinguishes itself from the two modern country stations it's competing with on FM.

 

[fordranger797]

Thanks for sharing the link. Had no idea the format originated in Indianapolis.

Some chatter earlier in the thread questioned how "classic" the country on KPLZ is. I've dropped in on some daypart hours over the weekends and the answer is IMO not very. Unlike what the blurb in the link says, their main playlist spans 1990-2020 (up to the pandemic year) and covers the hits, with the exception of the bro country of the 2010s. During a set they billboarded one legit classic country hit, Willie Nelson's "Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Cowboys."

It sounds very bright and listenable on FM, I'll give it that. Unlike KXA, Hank FM airs no Hank Senior. Despite that, I do believe it distinguishes itself from the two modern country stations it's competing with on FM.

It may not be classic country in the traditional sense, but it's a different approach to country from what we've normally seen in Seattle. It's what I grew up listening to when it was "new," so I've enjoyed listening to the new KPLZ. I definitely think there's an appetite for a station that dives a bit into gold as well as recent.

 

[TheBigA]

It may not be classic country in the traditional sense, but it's a different approach to country from what we've normally seen in Seattle.

It's classic country for FM, which is mainly 90s with a few 80s and 2000s. It's what iHeart does in Austin where they have two country stations. Audacy could have done it in Seattle when they got KMPS, but instead flipped it to soft AC.

 

[Todd Mitchell]

It's classic country for FM, which is mainly 90s with a few 80s and 2000s. It's what iHeart does in Austin where they have two country stations. Audacy could have done it in Seattle when they got KMPS, but instead flipped it to soft AC.

The country timeline equivalent of Classic Hits...which generally doesn't play Buddy Holly anymore (just as today's Classic Country stations generally don't play Hank Sr.)

 

[TheBigA]

The country timeline equivalent of Classic Hits...which generally doesn't play Buddy Holly anymore (just as today's Classic Country stations generally don't play Hank Sr.)

In fact, Hank Jr. is a bit of a stretch. Which is ironic given they call the format Hank.

 

[101tm]

It's classic country for FM, which is mainly 90s with a few 80s and 2000s. It's what iHeart does in Austin where they have two country stations. Audacy could have done it in Seattle when they got KMPS, but instead flipped it to soft AC.

Same for WESC in Greenville, SC which does quite well. I’ve noticed recently theyre branding themselves as “classic country” in some liners. WSSL gets the new country, there’s some overlap with the 2000s and 2010s (they also play an occasional 90s song), but it’s let iHeart own the country audience in the market.

 

[Kelly A]

Psychologically speaking, branding is an interesting game. Back in the day when stations proudly branded themselves as 'oldies' research indicated that whereas listeners enjoyed the era of music, the term 'oldie' was a turn-off to many who even admitted in focus groups, that they wouldn't bother sampling a station that called itself old, or which featured self-proclaimed 'old music'. This is why most rock stations started branding as 'classic rock'.
For the same reason, I'm not sure it works any better for Country. Branding the station 'young' or on the other end of the spectrum; 'classic' shifts the perception with some as a potential negative.
Years ago I was indirectly involved with a 'classic country'-branded station startup in Spokane that never got traction. Research showed the audience would speak highly of the artists featured, but didn't want to admit in a diary that they listened to something considered a classic.

 

[TheBigA]

Research showed the audience would speak highly of the artists featured, but didn't want to admit in a diary that they listened to something considered a classic.

That's what we see about Hank Williams and Johnny Cash. People love the names, but they don't know the music. On the other hand, George Strait is the King. Same with Garth Brooks. They're both making more money now than they did when they were having current hits.

 

[semoochie]

Psychologically speaking, branding is an interesting game. Back in the day when stations proudly branded themselves as 'oldies' research indicated that whereas listeners enjoyed the era of music, the term 'oldie' was a turn-off to many who even admitted in focus groups, that they wouldn't bother sampling a station that called itself old, or which featured self-proclaimed 'old music'. This is why most rock stations started branding as 'classic rock'.
For the same reason, I'm not sure it works any better for Country. Branding the station 'young' or on the other end of the spectrum; 'classic' shifts the perception with some as a potential negative.
Years ago I was indirectly involved with a 'classic country'-branded station startup in Spokane that never got traction. Research showed the audience would speak highly of the artists featured, but didn't want to admit in a diary that they listened to something considered a classic.

From the 1950s through well into the '60s, stations referred to even a one year-old song as an "oldie" and conditioned their listeners to think that way. By 1970, this was no longer done but anyone who remembered the practice, made a fond connection with the word. So, when Oldies stations became a format it was the perfect descriptor for its audience! When the time came to update the format, people who didn't remember the songs when they were new, didn't make the connection and only heard the word, "old".

 

[Kelly A]

When the time came to update the format, people who didn't remember the songs when they were new, didn't make the connection and only heard the word, "old".

Another reason why some formats were crushed when diaries were replaced by PPM in larger markets. Smooth Jazz, AAA, and Oldies were all examples that diary panelists would fill out based on how they felt about the brand, not that they necessarily listen. 'I don't consider myself old, so I'm not going to write down that I listen to 'oldies'. 'Smooth Jazz sounds sophisticated, so that's what I'll write down because I'm up against the deadline for returning the diary.' Same could be said for AAA.

 

[bobdavcav]

I've never quite understood that argument for why Smooth Jazz died. If that was really the case, then why are there not more stations in the format in markets still measured by the diary method today? I would think that if the diaries said they were doing well, they would still be in the format despite the actual numbers in PPM markets declining.

 

[TheBigA]

I would think that if the diaries said they were doing well, they would still be in the format despite the actual numbers in PPM markets declining.

It wasn't just numbers, it was also the demos. Mostly male, median age 60. 60% of audience 55+

 

[davideduardo]

From the 1950s through well into the '60s, stations referred to even a one year-old song as an "oldie" and conditioned their listeners to think that way.

And this was reflected in the record business with collections of gold called "Oldies But Goodies" and the like. The worlds of radio and music were better synchronized than they are today, in part because taste groups were not as stratified and segregated.

By 1970, this was no longer done but anyone who remembered the practice, made a fond connection with the word. So, when Oldies stations became a format it was the perfect descriptor for its audience! When the time came to update the format, people who didn't remember the songs when they were new, didn't make the connection and only heard the word, "old".

Many listeners still call gold based music and formats "oldies". The real issue behind stations not using the term is that advertisers associated "oldies" as a format with listeners outside the 18-54 age range that nearly all ad buys wanted to reach. So, to avoid time buyers "discarding" a gold-based station from a buy, they renamed the format as "classic hits" instead.

 

[davideduardo]

Another reason why some formats were crushed when diaries were replaced by PPM in larger markets. Smooth Jazz, AAA, and Oldies were all examples that diary panelists would fill out based on how they felt about the brand, not that they necessarily listen. 'I don't consider myself old, so I'm not going to write down that I listen to 'oldies'.

Despite 40 years of reviewing diaries in Laurel, Beltsville and Columbia, I never really saw evidence of people "voting" for a station with greater appeal or caché. The way diary keeping was explained in the recruit and in the booklet itself discouraged that.

We did see interviewer bias in Pulse and Hooper when they did recruiting door to door or on the phone. Listeners would occasionally respond with what they thought made them look good to the nice interviewer who had on a nice suit and tie.

In one case where I accompanied the field crew around 1970 you could hear the "country station" very loud in one home, but the respondent claimed to be listening to the local classical music station!

'Smooth Jazz sounds sophisticated, so that's what I'll write down because I'm up against the deadline for returning the diary.' Same could be said for AAA.

Nearly all formats benefited from the PPM because it recorded those secondary stations people occasionally listened to beyond their two or three favorites. So those stations with big secondary audiences got proportionally larger cumes.

But some formats were very narrow. Either listeners loved it or they did not listen at all.

In the case of Smooth Jazz, there were nearly no P4, P5 and beyond listeners. So they got no cume increase, and the greater precision of time spent listening in the PPM system gave them less TSL than before. So the numbers went down.

But smooth jazz was declining.... and aging... before the 2008-2009 rollout of the PPM. The PPM just accelerated the drop in the top 50 markets. And there were relatively few smooth jazz stations in smaller markets, anyway. Smooth Jazz was a niche format and it could get a nice 3 share in LA where audience was fragmented; a 3 share in Great Falls or Kalamazoo or Huntsville was so small that it was not generally profitable.

 

[Speed Racer 1]

Despite 40 years of reviewing diaries in Laurel, Beltsville and Columbia, I never really saw evidence of people "voting" for a station with greater appeal or caché. The way diary keeping was explained in the recruit and in the booklet itself discouraged that.

We did see interviewer bias in Pulse and Hooper when they did recruiting door to door or on the phone. Listeners would occasionally respond with what they thought made them look good to the nice interviewer who had on a nice suit and tie.

In one case where I accompanied the field crew around 1970 you could hear the "country station" very loud in one home, but the respondent claimed to be listening to the local classical music station!

Nearly all formats benefited from the PPM because it recorded those secondary stations people occasionally listened to beyond their two or three favorites. So those stations with big secondary audiences got proportionally larger cumes.

But some formats were very narrow. Either listeners loved it or they did not listen at all.

In the case of Smooth Jazz, there were nearly no P4, P5 and beyond listeners. So they got no cume increase, and the greater precision of time spent listening in the PPM system gave them less TSL than before. So the numbers went down.

But smooth jazz was declining.... and aging... before the 2008-2009 rollout of the PPM. The PPM just accelerated the drop in the top 50 markets. And there were relatively few smooth jazz stations in smaller markets, anyway. Smooth Jazz was a niche format and it could get a nice 3 share in LA where audience was fragmented; a 3 share in Great Falls or Kalamazoo or Huntsville was so small that it was not generally profitable.

I still find the whole PPM measurement a total farce. In Seattle on average, how many diaries were issued?