The purpose of the PPM was to satisfy advertisers.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
KPNW back to Country?
- Thread starter TimmyWA
- Start date
The purpose of the PPM was to satisfy advertisers.
So this tries to reach to the Garth and (the late) Toby fans out there. Meanwhile, the songs I hear on HANK FM in Walla Walla, 101.9, are 1980s-2000s for the most part, no '10s. That's why it's a preset whenever I go out to Tri-Cities! They reach as far back as 'Big Bad John' and some of the Johnny Cash classics. I also enjoy the '90s at Noon on KIOK The Wolf (94.9), which puts a strong signal into Yakima. They sometimes go into the '80s on that segment too.
Most commercial programmed (syndicated) classic country formats arre centered on mid 80s to late 90s... with reach more into the early 2000s then further back.
Some do reach back to a few select bigger hits of the 70s
Apparently the syndicator customizes the music for each market. For example, the original Hank in Indianapolis plays currents. This is what the syndicator says about the music:
Prior to the Garth era, people tended to discover Country music at about age 35. Under this reasoning, the earliest someone is likely to be into "Big Bad John" is , wait for it, ...100!
Last edited:
Now, they're discovering it in their late teens and early 20s. But then, during my Arkansas sportswriter days in the late '70s, I'd run into high school athletes who'd be listening to Hank Williams Jr. while warming up for track meets and baseball games.
Now, they discover TikTok rappers. And all of the dumb challenges and trends thereafter. The hot TikTok craze right now is 'mewing'. Followed by constant use of the word 'bro'...oh wait, 'bruh'. Oh, and Andrew Tate-inspired garbage. I'm a substitute teacher so I know what they are into, and it isn't Hank Williams Jr.
Get off my lawn!!! (I can't believe I just turned 69 and am saying this.)
For some reason, I remember Robin & Maynard playing "Big Bad John" occasionally.
You can not compare the two... diary based random probability samples and the PPM mirrored panel.
In the diary system, there may have been more total diaries, but over a 12 week period of a survey only 8% fell in any given week. Thus, the weekly and even monthly data was very, very week.
In the PPM, all the meters are active every day, every week, every month, all year long. So the 6 AM to 10 AM morning drive numbers for one May 13th are as accurate as the morning drive estimate for the entire year all added and averaged.
The other... or one of the other... diary defects is that each week had a different group of people. There was no guarantee or expectation that any given week would mirror the demographic composition of the market. In fact, Nielsen has to work to get the later weeks of a survey to balance out the deficiencies of the prior weeks.
In all research, the test is how few participants are needed to get acceptable and reasonably reliable results which clients will pay for.
Example: When I was running an in-house research company, we did several tests to see how many respondents were needed in a music test before any further increase produced no changes in the data. We found that around 80 music test respondents were more than enough, even when we would look at results by "the young half" and "the older half" and "men" and "women" and such separately. So we would recruit with a goal of 100, knowing that about 5% would be no-shows (back when tests were not done online) and a few would be disqualified as "outliers". That gave us, still, about a 10% margin of security. Any more participants just increased the cost by about $200 to $300 each with no benefit.
So, if you look at the number of meters used in any PPM market, those numbers are more than adequate for the sole purpose of ratings: to sell advertising.
Advertisers use Nielsen to determine about $12 billion in ad agency and in-house agency annual expenditures. If the ratings were not adequately reliable we would hear about it.
So, now, and with this data in mind, why do you think that the PPM system is "a total farce". Please be specific.
I should have prefaced my post with the words, "Outside of the South".
Yes, even more so. I've never met anyone with a PPM. I've asked lots of people and they've never known anyone to have them. What kind of person wears one? How about we study that aspect of this. There is way too much drop off to get an accurate number. And what about people listening on earbuds? It's everywhere now. How does that work. It doesn't. It's a flawed system not much better than the diary system. The Big A was right, PPM was created for advertisers.
And the advertisers accept its information as correct, and do not share your opinion. Plus it's certified by an outside agency.
Never forget. In radio, the advertiser is the customer. The listener is the product. The customer (ad agencies) understand statistics to the nth degree, and have accepted PPM as valid. They have made huge bets with the ad placements based upon this methodology. In a metro of a couple million people the fact that you don't personally know anybody who has worn the receiver doesn't mean much. The fact that I know 3 who have doesn't mean much either.
If you are not paying for something you are not the customer. Next time you are on social media keep that in mind.
If you are not paying for something you are not the customer. Next time you are on social media keep that in mind.
I feel like a boomer yet I'm just nearing 30. I guess I'm old and wise. I never "graduated" to violent video games, yet we live in the day and age where too many parents just let them play Fortnite and Call of Duty at age *8* - all weekend long. Whatever happened to Mario and Donkey Kong? Wii Sports? Madden NFL? Are they too 'G-rated' for some of these students nowadays?
Sounds like I need to challenge my incoming 4th grade students to a round of Wii Sports Bowling during one of our class parties. (Yes, I got a full-time teaching job in Idaho for the fall. No more subbing!)
Anyways...1.1 for KPNW. Still a ways to go, but could they return to the top 10 eventually? The Bull did well in the PPM at times. The AAA flip dropped them down to sub-zero levels. I still think 3 country stations is too much for this market (plus 4 if you count KAYO 96.9).
Expense. As mentioned earlier, the cost to subscribers is a lot more than diary. That cost is prohibitive for smaller markets.
It is not a great or even good system period. No one can refute the earbud listening and it's not used everywhere. It's just okay. And Neilsen has zero competition, so they don't have to make it better. Why wouldn't you want better and more accurate numbers?
Who is the "you" you're asking about? Once again, Nielsen doesn't do these numbers for the public. They do them for the advertisers and paying subscribers. If you were one or the other, then you'd have a contact at Nielsen to make your demands. If a radio station has an issue with the numbers, they know who to contact, and can see the underlying data. For the most part, when the question about better numbers has been asked, it means the subscribers would have to pay more money. That's the tradeoff. Since you don't pay, you don't care.
- Status