KQRS in 11th place

[Lester_the_NightFly]

11th place, with a 4.4, moving up from a 4.2 from April.
Even WCCO is ahead in 7th place with a 5.8.

Are they done? With Jameson gone and the current PD from Buffalo NY, will they ever recover?

 

[mnradiofan]

11th place, with a 4.4, moving up from a 4.2 from April.
Even WCCO is ahead in 7th place with a 5.8.

Are they done? With Jameson gone and the current PD from Buffalo NY, will they ever recover?

I have long heard that the reason KQRS did well was because of the morning show, and that without the morning show ratings they were really no better than any other Classic Rock station. In addition to that, the demo for classic rock is aging (someone who was in HS in 1975 is now 60+). Their morning host turns 70 this November, so how long does KQ really have left? I guess it depends on if the station can evolve, and the "classic hits" format (logical next step from Classic Rock) is really crowded, and an 80s/90s "classic rock" format really hasn't been widely successful on it's own. (Plus, someone who grew up on 80s and 90s rock had already written KQRS off as "Dads" radio station even back then).

 

[Gregg.]

Hey, I think this is a bit alarmist. First, Classic Rock does fine as a 25-54 demo format. In cities like Minneapolis where many young adult men like rock music, Classic Rock can be very strong for Men 18-49. Some classic rock outlets even do well Men 18-34, even if every song is from well before this demo was born.

Why is KQRS out of the top 10 in Minneapolis? Very surprising. But in markets similar to Minneapolis, like Seattle, classic rock is #5. In Denver it's #2 and #5 (two stations). In Milwaukee, it's also #5.

My guess is that KQRS will correct this.

 

[Lester_the_NightFly]

KSHE in St. Louis is #1 with a 13.0 share 6+

Again, not sure what is happening, but it's not looking good for KQ at this moment.

 

[CTListener]

It's probably still fine as a white, male 25-54 money maker. That's an audience that is not targeted by too many formats, but sports and classic rock are two that advertisers always throw money at. I wonder if the next couple of books will be better for classic rock now that it looks like the Twins will not play any role in the MLB playoff race this season.

Your market does have an unusually strong active rock station, but I'd imagine that's strongest in 18-34 and doesn't get many older ears; maybe it's also not a favorite of advertisers for the same reason alternative rock isn't: the slacker stereotype of the typical fan.

 

[mnradiofan]

It's probably still fine as a white, male 25-54 money maker. That's an audience that is not targeted by too many formats, but sports and classic rock are two that advertisers always throw money at. I wonder if the next couple of books will be better for classic rock now that it looks like the Twins will not play any role in the MLB playoff race this season.

Your market does have an unusually strong active rock station, but I'd imagine that's strongest in 18-34 and doesn't get many older ears; maybe it's also not a favorite of advertisers for the same reason alternative rock isn't: the slacker stereotype of the typical fan.

Our "Active Rock" is really more of a hybrid that relies on the harder side of Alternative, and the 90's/2000's "power hits".

I think that's exactly part of the problem. We had a strong Active Rock and a strong Classic Rock that don't have a lot of crossover outside of morning drive (and people have gotten sick of the morning drive program, not to discount it's past huge success as one of the only morning shows that Stern couldn't even beat).

KQ could absolutely survive, but they need to get the message out that the format has evolved to include a lot of the 90s rock songs that they have previously ignored (and that 93X has played into the ground already).

 

[MarkW]

Your market does have an unusually strong active rock station, but I'd imagine that's strongest in 18-34 and doesn't get many older ears; maybe it's also not a favorite of advertisers for the same reason alternative rock isn't: the slacker stereotype of the typical fan.

93X regularly finishes in top 5 in Adults 25-54 and makes frequent appearances in the top 3.

 

[aspric]

I’m surprised no one mentioned Ray Erick’s retirement after 30+ years there.

 

[RomanPort]

I'm shocked that it's fallen down to 11th place, frankly. KQ has always been my favorite station and has meant a lot to me.

I have noticed that KQ started playing a number of newer tracks recently from bands such as Metallica, Foo Fighters, Candlebox, and a bunch of other 90s artists. I've also noticed a distinct lack of a few other older bands like Creedence Clearwater Revival. They've definitely shifted the format a little bit over this last year. I think that the new "edgier" slogans they adopted last November was also intended to adapt. I think they got the message but don't want to increase their (already large) overlap with 93X.

I was very saddened to see Ray Erick retire as well. I called in to KQRS on his final day and I'll never forget the conversation I had with him on the phone. He was incredibly friendly and we just talked about cars (the vehicle, not the band) for a good couple of minutes. I really miss him.

I still feel that this format of music can still bring in younger listeners. I'm eighteen, but I've been listening to KQRS for years and I still listen to it for hours a day. Most of the people I've talked to about it also listen almost exclusively. It saddens me to see other stations like KZJK that cost a fraction of the money to run overtake KQ in the ratings though. As much as I like Remy Maxwell on KZJK, I'm much more attached to KQ because of the on-air personalities alone.

 

[aspric]

I'm shocked that it's fallen down to 11th place, frankly. KQ has always been my favorite station and has meant a lot to me.

I have noticed that KQ started playing a number of newer tracks recently from bands such as Metallica, Foo Fighters, Candlebox, and a bunch of other 90s artists. I've also noticed a distinct lack of a few other older bands like Creedence Clearwater Revival. They've definitely shifted the format a little bit over this last year. I think that the new "edgier" slogans they adopted last November was also intended to adapt. I think they got the message but don't want to increase their (already large) overlap with 93X.

I was very saddened to see Ray Erick retire as well. I called in to KQRS on his final day and I'll never forget the conversation I had with him on the phone. He was incredibly friendly and we just talked about cars (the vehicle, not the band) for a good couple of minutes. I really miss him.

I still feel that this format of music can still bring in younger listeners. I'm eighteen, but I've been listening to KQRS for years and I still listen to it for hours a day. Most of the people I've talked to about it also listen almost exclusively. It saddens me to see other stations like KZJK that cost a fraction of the money to run overtake KQ in the ratings though. As much as I like Remy Maxwell on KZJK, I'm much more attached to KQ because of the on-air personalities alone.

Sure, Jack FM is more than enough for long sets of music, but it also has all the personality of a soda cracker outside of Remy’s shift. But KQ is no robo rocker, but it rates lower for some reason.

 

[davideduardo]

Sure, Jack FM is more than enough for long sets of music, but it also has all the personality of a soda cracker outside of Remy’s shift. But KQ is no robo rocker, but it rates lower for some reason.

When Jack originated, the radio dials in Canada and the US were filled with too many talking heads, reading jock prep sheets and stuff from "People" magazine. There was a sizable group of listeners who found that to be plastic and unengaging. Jack was born.

I do question whether the substitution of snarky liners makes up for a bit of personality today, when other stations mostly have very empty voicetracked shows most of the day.

 

[Lester_the_NightFly]

New month and they're still in 11th place.

 

[davideduardo]

New month and they're still in 11th place.

And at that level they generally are 5th to 7th in market billings (there are several stations all in the same revenue range KQRS is in).

If you consider all the lost revenue were they to change format (it takes 9 months to a year to get revenue up on a new format... if that format does better) and the limited potential of a new format, this station is best served by tweaking, not changing. They lean overly heavy in 36-64 and in that demo are about 4 rank positions higher than 25-54. So trying to improve the 35-44 is likely the best step.

 

[RomanPort]

As much as I hate to admit it, I feel that the station has gone downhill in the last year. I think a lot of the blame is on their new imaging. In late November last year, they ditched the very enjoyable old slogans and replaced them with this irritating, obnoxious voice that I still can't really stand.

Around this time, they also removed a number of artists that I consider to be pretty important to classic rock. I haven't heard anything from Creedence Clearwater Revival or Guess Who or Joe Walsh since December of last year, among others. I know the classic rock format is always evolving, but why were those bands excluded while they've decided to, at the same time, add The Doors and Jimmy Hendrix to the rotation? I'd wager that Joe Walsh's "Rocky Mountain Way" is a lot more well known and loved than "Roadhouse Blues" by The Doors. I don't work in the radio industry so I may be wrong, but as a listener I'm frustrated that they decided to exclude these core bands from rotation.

Their ratings seem to reflect this as well. In Oct 2020, before the change in imaging, KQRS was in 4th place at 6.5. By February, they had fallen to 10th place with 4.4. The new slogans and legal IDs they started using this last week are just as irritating as the ones introduced in November as well.

In a lot of ways KQ doesn't even feel like the same station to me, and I wish they'd go back to the old imaging and wider selection of songs being played. I'm really saddened to see KQ like this...

 

[mnradiofan]

The problem is, the core demos for "classic rock" are aging out of the advertiser friendly demos. The teens of the 70s are now in their 60's.

That's not to say that there isn't a market for classic rock, and that younger people aren't listening to classic rock, KQ has even tried to evolve (Nirvana on KQ, that just sounds weird to me). And if I am like the average 40 something person they are trying to hit, they haven't really done a good job of really advertising that they have changed, so I don't think to check them out. I grew up on 93.7, and KQ was my dad's station. I know it's possible to shift the format, as proven by KOOL 108, they just need to communicate that better to their audience.

The other elephant in the room is an aging morning show, which IIRC makes up the BULK of that 12+ number. They need a succession plan, and clearly don't have one. Even if Tom has 5-10 years left, his popularity is clearly waning. Not to discount his career, because it has been incredible, but the dude is 70 now and I'd imagine he's probably at least a little less "fired up" about getting up at 4AM every day.

 

[davideduardo]

The problem is, the core demos for "classic rock" are aging out of the advertiser friendly demos. The teens of the 70s are now in their 60's.

As BigA and others have noted, the 18-34 classic rock numbers in many markets are quite competitive.

That's not to say that there isn't a market for classic rock, and that younger people aren't listening to classic rock, KQ has even tried to evolve (Nirvana on KQ, that just sounds weird to me). And if I am like the average 40 something person they are trying to hit, they haven't really done a good job of really advertising that they have changed, so I don't think to check them out. I grew up on 93.7, and KQ was my dad's station. I know it's possible to shift the format, as proven by KOOL 108, they just need to communicate that better to their audience.

Many AOR stations evolved into classic rock. As they did, they continued to play the 70's songs so that newer listeners heard them and became attached to them emotionally. This phenomenon occurs in quite a few other formats that play older songs as the newer listeners acquire interest in the "gold" that their favorite station plays.

The other elephant in the room is an aging morning show, which IIRC makes up the BULK of that 12+ number. They need a succession plan, and clearly don't have one. Even if Tom has 5-10 years left, his popularity is clearly waning. Not to discount his career, because it has been incredible, but the dude is 70 now and I'd imagine he's probably at least a little less "fired up" about getting up at 4AM every day.

There is an important fact which is that we all age a year at a time. Listener groups that are predominantly 35-54 will be 36-55 next year. No big deal... except for the fact that those stations research and when certain songs decline, particularly in the younger target age, they reduce the spins and eventually drop them.

Remember, a station targeting, broadly, 35-54 will likely research the super-core of, perhaps, 37 to 49 or something like that. They can track the songs by age groups and make playlist and rotation adjustments.

As long as a morning show gets good numbers, they will keep it. Remember, at stations we don't look at 6+ or 12+... often "never". We look at our target, and research in the core of the target. If and when the morning show declines to a critical point, they can do many things, such as getting a new sidekick to transition or working on finding a replacement. Again, the changes in demo occur slowly, with trends based on aging taking place over spans of several years.

 

[CTListener]

As BigA and others have noted, the 18-34 classic rock numbers in many markets are quite competitive.

Many AOR stations evolved into classic rock. As they did, they continued to play the 70's songs so that newer listeners heard them and became attached to them emotionally. This phenomenon occurs in quite a few other formats that play older songs as the newer listeners acquire interest in the "gold" that their favorite station plays.

What frustrates the aged-out Boomer and Gen X listeners who hear the Doors and Jimi Hendrix still being played and still attracting enough 18-34s to keep advertisers interested is that 18-34s, for some reason, don't evidence a similar interest in old popular music of other genres. They listen to what Hendrix and the Doors were doing 50+ years ago but not what the Grass Roots and the Supremes were doing then. To today's 60+ listeners, that's difficult to understand.

 

[davideduardo]

What frustrates the aged-out Boomer and Gen X listeners who hear the Doors and Jimi Hendrix still being played and still attracting enough 18-34s to keep advertisers interested is that 18-34s, for some reason, don't evidence a similar interest in old popular music of other genres. They listen to what Hendrix and the Doors were doing 50+ years ago but not what the Grass Roots and the Supremes were doing then. To today's 60+ listeners, that's difficult to understand.

Some of this has to do with how listeners matured musically. A top 40 fan from the Beatles era may have moved later to harder rock and seems to have kept the Iron Butterfly and Joplin feel to this day. Those same people are likely to have decided that having liked the Archies and the Monkees is embarrassing and lamentable. They moved on.

Contrary to what is often commented here, advertisers don't favor 18-34 over 35-54. The broad ad campaigns are generally 18-49 (particularly for the younger Hispanic and Black communities) and 25-54.

When a broad buy is made, agencies tend to pick several stations, some younger, some older, some in the middle; additionally they try to cover less duplicated cume by buying a variety of formats.

Of course, there are many ad buys that aim just at the high age range and others at the younger ones; that depends on the target buyer for the product or service. Similarly, some buy against only women or only men.

But my main point is that a station that is predominantly 35+ does not have a disadvantage in transactional buys for most mass market advertisers.

 

[mnradiofan]

As long as a morning show gets good numbers, they will keep it. Remember, at stations we don't look at 6+ or 12+... often "never". We look at our target, and research in the core of the target. If and when the morning show declines to a critical point, they can do many things, such as getting a new sidekick to transition or working on finding a replacement. Again, the changes in demo occur slowly, with trends based on aging taking place over spans of several years.

I know you are in the industry, and I mean this with respect, I think you are missing my point here. The morning show. which is a very solid performer having once gotten a 25+ share in the morning (even beating Howard Stern when he tried to enter this market) is really mostly a one-man show. And that person (Tom) is turning 70 in November. He's already tried to retire once and the station had no plan for it back then. The morning show has been SO successful that it hasn't really left room to "groom" new talent because there simply isn't room (and Tom gets what Tom wants, which is probably to be expected when you are that successful).

Your other points are solid, and it looks like they are trying to tweak to attract a younger audience. They will need to do a better job differentiating KQ from 93X in the coming years, because 93X also relies heavily on the "gold" product, which means the two stations have quite a bit of overlap that is likely cannibalizing the audience. I think part of the problem facing rock music that will eventually cause an issue is there isn't enough good current product so active rock is relying on the golds a lot more than, say, CHR. So 93X is still playing a lot of 80s-90s music which would be the same product a Classic Rock station would eventually evolve into.

I'm not "in the industry" merely observing from the sidelines, and it seems that while KOOL 108 (the oldies station back in the day) has successfully "modernized" and consistently is a top performer, KQ has not. There was a long period of time where KQ was number 1, and it wasn't close (yes, this is in meaningless 12+ numbers, but I think it can still paint a picture). To see them fall to 11 is rough (even 93X has fallen quite a bit). I know nothing lasts forever (there was a time when WCCO was #1 and it wasn't close) it's just been interesting to watch, and it'll be interesting to see how the format evolves over time.

 

[RomanPort]

I know you are in the industry, and I mean this with respect, I think you are missing my point here. The morning show. which is a very solid performer having once gotten a 25+ share in the morning (even beating Howard Stern when he tried to enter this market) is really mostly a one-man show. And that person (Tom) is turning 70 in November. He's already tried to retire once and the station had no plan for it back then. The morning show has been SO successful that it hasn't really left room to "groom" new talent because there simply isn't room (and Tom gets what Tom wants, which is probably to be expected when you are that successful).

Your other points are solid, and it looks like they are trying to tweak to attract a younger audience. They will need to do a better job differentiating KQ from 93X in the coming years, because 93X also relies heavily on the "gold" product, which means the two stations have quite a bit of overlap that is likely cannibalizing the audience. I think part of the problem facing rock music that will eventually cause an issue is there isn't enough good current product so active rock is relying on the golds a lot more than, say, CHR. So 93X is still playing a lot of 80s-90s music which would be the same product a Classic Rock station would eventually evolve into.

I'm not "in the industry" merely observing from the sidelines, and it seems that while KOOL 108 (the oldies station back in the day) has successfully "modernized" and consistently is a top performer, KQ has not. There was a long period of time where KQ was number 1, and it wasn't close (yes, this is in meaningless 12+ numbers, but I think it can still paint a picture). To see them fall to 11 is rough (even 93X has fallen quite a bit). I know nothing lasts forever (there was a time when WCCO was #1 and it wasn't close) it's just been interesting to watch, and it'll be interesting to see how the format evolves over time.

I agree with you, and I'm a bit worried about the morning show too. There's a reason why the morning show is advertised as "Tom Barnard and the KQ Morning Show", and I'm not sure how they'll continue without him.

I also agree that there needs to be a bit more of a difference between KQ and 93X. Especially in the last few months as KQ has changed the format, I've noticed more and more overlap. GnR, Alice in Chains, Candlebox, STP, Motley Crue, Ozzy Osbourne, Def Leppard, Poison, Black Sabbath, and especially Metallica are all bands I hear daily on both stations. I'm not saying that 93X or KQ should remove those artists from the rotation, but I'd personally really enjoy KQ adding more tracks that aren't from artists shared with 93X.