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KRKO/KKXA To Test All Digital AM Broadcasting

MarioMania said:
Can DXers still hear the IBOC Hash wheh it's all Digital
Click to expand...

As I understand it, full digital is not IBOC, so there should be less interference.

I'm told full digital AM HD Radio would enable two independent mono audio streams. That would probably appeal to more station operators than stereo, since most AM stations are talk these days.
 
From the west banks of Lake Washington near Montlake (actually near the boat dock behind Husky Stadium) I hear Mexican from Portland, no sign of country music or "silence."

Not even a blinking digital light on the Kenwood HD car stereo.

KRKO coming in well in analog with the end of high school football and Fox Sports. No sign of digital...

9:45 - 10pm

digital data on 1530 but analog audio.
 
xmtrland said:
Every one complains there is no Local programing. Maybe a fan of Thunderbirds Hockey would listen to KFNQ in HD. That is not Bogus programming. Last night they had Oregon and Arizona College football on. KFNQ has live sports. Just because your not into sports does not make the format Bogus. I enjoy the National take on the Seahawks or Mariners which KFNQ supplies, then I cam flip to 710 ESPN and get the local take.

With the right audio processing you can process the HD and analog differently and get good results from HD (Love Optimod 9400). Yes I listen to KFNQ mostly Analog but can sample the HD side also. Tyr this, listen to the Seahawks on KIRO 710 then turning to the broadcast on KIRO FM it's almost the same experience as switching form analog AM to the HD signal. In that aspect yes the HD signal sounds more like FM. AM and FM processing styles are different and so are the AM and HD processing. A good HD station will process the HD differently. Even the FM and FM-HD processing should be separate after the AGC to do a good job. I saw a thread where the topic was if a station is going to do HD it should be done right.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, Scott Ferrell's show, and the one after him are anything but bogus. I prefer the national take on sports, less rah rah, less biased towards the Seahawks & Mariners. None of the local shows do anything for me.
 
Right now I am just hearing digital noise on 1380, about S3 or so, with some QRM to adjacent channels on my Superadio.
 
I can't hear anything at night from 1520 and I hear the Mexican station too. 1380 is very week at night. Better on both during the day so I will try them during day.

Yes on the 1090 programing. If you want to learn how to speak on the radio in spoken word. Listen to 1090 it wont make your ears **** Like *** will.

Tequila shots from Vashon
 
A DXer in Seaside OR with a good antenna system reported getting only digital hash on 1380 after 11 PM Friday night, along with occasional bursts of good-quality audio decoding from the HD.
He also indicated that KRKO's HD signal strongly interfered with a station in Ontario OR.
He noted that there was less interference on adjacent frequencies but, as one would expect, lots of extra noise on 1380.
Apparently some testing was done last night which was not specified on their website. I hope all of the listed tests take place.
 
In my opinion, there's a bit of good news--and lots of bad news.
The good news first: as expected, the coverage of the "HD" signal on KRKO is enhanced.
The bad news: if an increased bit rate can be used, it appears they're not doing it.
Audio _sounds_ like it has more highs, but it sounds swishy, harsh and unpleasant. Very fatiguing.
I love listening to high frequencies, but frankly, I think analog AM sounds much more pleasant.
There's certainly no background hiss, that's a plus; but it sounds like a low-bit stream. I wouldn't listen to audio like this on a PC; I certainly wouldn't on a radio.
More bad news. If you think IBOC trashes adjacent frequencies, ya ain't seen nothin' yet!
Obviously, with more hash, it sounds like the adjacent frequency interference is four times as bad.
That's a subjective opinion, no spectrum analysis involved, but most listeners judge with their ears anyway.
Even though I'm no fan of IBOC, I expected to be blown away. Well, it's just plain disappointing.
But I thank Andy for having this test here in the Northwest.
I got to experience it myself, not just take someone's word for it.
 
Mariomania,
Yes. 1380 just has a huge block of noise, several times more intense than what had been on its adjacents in hybrid mode.
And since the power level is so much higher, the interference is much stronger on the adjacents as well.
However, I think Tacoma's 1400 may have less interference.
 
1400 has been in Silverdale for several years. The old 1400 tower in Tacoma is not even around anymore. I too hear the 1380 hash. I'm 3/4 of a mile southwest of the KOMO transmitter and I have a hunch it may be messing with the AGC on my fine Sangean receiver ( I got it for free). I can't decode 1380 with the Sangean or the Directed HD converter I got for fun. I bet if I went farther north or south the Sangean might work better.

And I bet you guys would be eligible to win the $50 gas card or restaurant trade by clicking on the link to share your HD experience, I bet I'm not eligible. Looks like the link goes right to Andy's email.

Can any one tell me how 1380's HD compares to 1090? Been told the 1090 HD sounds better but because I can't get a lock on KRKO or 1520, I can't tell.
 
I have HD radio in my car and it sounds like typical AM analog no HD signal in South King County. My wife's car is analog nothing but dead air. Very disappointing that the HD signal is so weak.
 
Finally got a HD lock on KRKO today, Saturday, for several hours. I had to position my Terk Advantage loop antenna just so on a shelf several feet from the tuner. The audio quality is slightly improved, but is not very a good demonstration of AM HD Radio's all-digital capabilities; almost certainly due to the station's program sources which seem to be bandwidth-restricted mono. The station was running frequent ads touting the all-digital mode.

Still can't get a lock on KKXA, which is in IBOC mode right now, but I've never gotten a strong enough signal in that mode. All-digital should make the difference and hopefully the music will be in stereo with a full audio range. (The only thing bad about it for me is that I can't stand country! God, it's SO annoying. I could handle a little bit of bluegrass, I suppose.)

My Sony XDR-F1HD mutes audio when the signal's all-digital and takes five seconds to lock. Because there's no fallback mode, it occasionally mutes as the signal strength varies. As I write this, I can't get a lock any more probably because of afternoon propagation. The signal is a bit stronger, but doesn't peg the indicator bars.

I couldn't pick up either KRKO or KKXA on any other radio or tuner in my house way down south in Auburn, but plenty of noise from my computer, of course. Thus I can't comment on possible adjacent channel interference.

The sports station at 1090 also locked solidly on IBOC, but again the audio's just mono and the announcer's voice is slightly echoy.
 
I went out to my car in Portland just before midnight, to see if I could see the HD indicator flash, which it did, for a few seconds. Surprisingly, the actual signal kicked in and stayed there for a couple of minutes! I think they turned it off. I didn't stay long enough to see if it returned but I didn't expect to hear it at all, since it's directional and I can barely detect it in analog.
 
Apparently there was a problem last night with KKXA; that's the one I really wanted to hear.
I gather they did more testing last night on KRKO. I'm trying to record some of these tests using a good portable recorder and SD cards, but I face one major restriction: the noise produced by its AC adapter.
That means my recordings must be done on batteries, and the internal batteries can only do a few hours at a time.
Since KRKO's night test was moved to Saturday night, and batteries needed charging and SD cards replacing for today, if they decide that's it for KRKO, I won't find out if they decode at night here.
I'm hoping that whatever problem they had with KKXA can be resolved.
Last night would have been perfect for KKXA. KGDD in Lake Oswego, OR, was barely coming in--and that's unusual.
Dem's the breaks, I guess.
I think I'd have had a chance at KKXA last night. KRKO is clear enough that it'll probably lock at night, but my sleep schedule (and that pesky internal battery) have kept me from finding out.
 
semoochie said:
AM was an afterthought. The NTIA and CBS Labs developed a system and eventually merged with other competing systems, taking the best elements from each to form Ibiquity. I don't ever recall hearing anything about AT&T being involved in the process.
Click to expand...

Both bands have been under development since the 90s, but the research was weighted toward FM. CBS/Westinghouse (later USA Digital Radio) was one primary developer, while Lucent (a product of AT&T) was the other.
 
Thank you, I either never connected or had forgotten that Lucent Technologies was tied in with AT&T. KGDD 1520 is licensed to Oregon City. In fact, when it was KYXI(among other call letters), it was referred to on air as "the Oregon City station". 1640 and before that, 1290, the old KLIQ, is licensed to Lake Oswego, as is 106.7.
 
I've been listening off and on to KXXA's full power digital signal this afternoon, with one transmitter dropout (they had big problems all last night). The signal's definitely stronger and I get HD lock in five seconds on my Sony XDR-F1HD tuner and Terk advantage loop antenna; takes critical aiming and adjustment to get a strong signal, though. I'm in Auburn, WA about 60 miles away from the transmitter and this is the first time I've gotten a HD lock.

The audio, disappointingly, is mono. Very like a good analog FM mono. Can't tell anything about adjacent channel interference with this non-IBOC signal though I've read the usual complaints elsewhere.
 
I wouldn't jump to any audio quality conclusions yet that somehow the start of what they're doing is going to be the final dialed-in results. From what I've seen in reports via E-mail, a receivable signal for 1380 seems to reach areas that analog didn't. That's a similar result observed when testing via KIXI years ago. It makes sense, because the digital modulation is considered RMS, not peak like analog AM.
 
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