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dirkdiggler
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KROQ's decline, Latino's rise?
- Thread starter creativegenius
- Start date
K
KMRichards
Guest
Re: STILL whining about Indie?
> You guys have been wrong about this station for a couple
> years now. You sure you know what your talking about?
> Thought it wasn't supposed to last 3 months?
>
>
> I guess your just wrong again.
Some people did say that, and the more knowledgeable among us said it would be a year before Entravision would decide its long-term fate. Others said, correctly, that it would last at least as long as the JSA with Clear Channel. Since the JSA ended, there has been some doubt expressed as to how much longer it can last; certainly flat ratings over a six-book period can't be making the suits at Entravision happy.
Perhaps if you were to contribute something meaningful to the discussion, instead of a cheap shot that took maybe 30 seconds of your time to compose?
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
> You guys have been wrong about this station for a couple
> years now. You sure you know what your talking about?
> Thought it wasn't supposed to last 3 months?
>
>
> I guess your just wrong again.
Some people did say that, and the more knowledgeable among us said it would be a year before Entravision would decide its long-term fate. Others said, correctly, that it would last at least as long as the JSA with Clear Channel. Since the JSA ended, there has been some doubt expressed as to how much longer it can last; certainly flat ratings over a six-book period can't be making the suits at Entravision happy.
Perhaps if you were to contribute something meaningful to the discussion, instead of a cheap shot that took maybe 30 seconds of your time to compose?
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
D
dirkdiggler
Guest
*deleted*
Post deleted by admin: spam
Post deleted by admin: spam
Re: STILL whining about Indie?
> > You guys have been wrong about this station for a couple
> > years now. You sure you know what your talking about?
> > Thought it wasn't supposed to last 3 months?
> >
> >
> > I guess your just wrong again.
>
> Some people did say that, and the more knowledgeable among
> us said it would be a year before Entravision would decide
> its long-term fate. Others said, correctly, that it would
> last at least as long as the JSA with Clear Channel. Since
> the JSA ended, there has been some doubt expressed as to how
> much longer it can last; certainly flat ratings over a
> six-book period can't be making the suits at Entravision
> happy.
>
> Perhaps if you were to contribute something meaningful to
> the discussion, instead of a cheap shot that took maybe 30
> seconds of your time to compose?
>
KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up 67% from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75% from last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's a four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are not big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0 share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a year and make the station very profitable.
I still think people need to ease up on the Indie criticism. I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) - however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
> > You guys have been wrong about this station for a couple
> > years now. You sure you know what your talking about?
> > Thought it wasn't supposed to last 3 months?
> >
> >
> > I guess your just wrong again.
>
> Some people did say that, and the more knowledgeable among
> us said it would be a year before Entravision would decide
> its long-term fate. Others said, correctly, that it would
> last at least as long as the JSA with Clear Channel. Since
> the JSA ended, there has been some doubt expressed as to how
> much longer it can last; certainly flat ratings over a
> six-book period can't be making the suits at Entravision
> happy.
>
> Perhaps if you were to contribute something meaningful to
> the discussion, instead of a cheap shot that took maybe 30
> seconds of your time to compose?
>
KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up 67% from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75% from last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's a four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are not big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0 share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a year and make the station very profitable.
I still think people need to ease up on the Indie criticism. I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) - however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
K
KMRichards
Guest
Re: STILL whining about Indie?
> So the fact is, whatever angle you come up with for Indies
> demise, it has been wrong. Every thought, idea, concept and
> whatever goes on in your mind with Indie has been wrong.
Pretty obvious you haven't read the entire board, "Dirk" (What was your previous username? Were you banned previously? Would you like to be again?) if you can make an erroneous statement like that.
Either that or you choose to ignore the posts in which there have been positive statements made about the station.
You're still taking cheap potshots, rather than contributing to a real discussion, though ...
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
> So the fact is, whatever angle you come up with for Indies
> demise, it has been wrong. Every thought, idea, concept and
> whatever goes on in your mind with Indie has been wrong.
Pretty obvious you haven't read the entire board, "Dirk" (What was your previous username? Were you banned previously? Would you like to be again?) if you can make an erroneous statement like that.
Either that or you choose to ignore the posts in which there have been positive statements made about the station.
You're still taking cheap potshots, rather than contributing to a real discussion, though ...
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
KROQ likely lost some share to Jack
It's probably a safe assumption that KROQ's own sister station is pulling at least some share from KROQ. Generally speaking, many "Jack" listeners are in their 30's. That's an age group where KROQ has traditionally had a good deal of listenership.
It looks like KCBS has also put a dent in the numbers of another sister station: K-Earth.
>
> Quote taken from RnR...
>
> "The spring story continues, as KROQ/Los Angeles pulls in
> its lowest Arbitron showing
> in close to five years" This aint no wobble babble.
>
> What is surprising is that Clear Channel hasn't really
> counter programmed any of it's stations against Jack or
> Infinity for that matter to get it's male numbers up or at
> least take a risk and convert a station like STAR into a
> Indie Hybrid format to counter KROQ and lean alittle more
> female.
>
> Indie's independance from CC seems to have not at all
> impacted it's advertising roster as they continue with
> NATIONAL sales spots even though the experts on this board
> said those spots would dry up in 30, 60, 90 days.
>
> Well, we are well past those marks and their spot loads and
> quality remain as they were, high and high quality. Given
> the crap ads that Groove and KDL had day in and day out,
> this format has at least in this department been a winner.
> Seems more and more that the format itself would do more
> harm on a broader signal given the recent Book results in
> San Diego showing the ne0-alt up book and veteran alt rocker
> 91x at it's near lowest level in almost 20 years. It is
> apparent to me that this market could be shaken by moving
> Indie's format to a signal like STAR at that would push
> veteran KROQ down to the low level 2's 91x is seeing. I
> sight San Diego as a good example because Alt wise, the
> market tastes and actions of the all important male demo
> 18-34 lifestyles are very similiar.
>
> As far as Latino goes, I am not sure it will kill off POWER
> just yet. Do young influential latino young males think a
> moniker like "Latino 96.3" cool enough to spread it to their
> friends?? Meaning, who in that league will win the cool
> factor, Latino or Power? Power will. Power still is the
> STREET king of Los Angeles. SBS failed at the moniker, and
> in this market, that matters. Univision wins for best
> moniker in the Reggaeton Hurban format explosion naming it's
> new format's LA CALLE, or THE STREET, very smart and a
> winning moniker in my books. Latino 96.3 smells and sounds
> very ethnic, that concerns me.
>
It's probably a safe assumption that KROQ's own sister station is pulling at least some share from KROQ. Generally speaking, many "Jack" listeners are in their 30's. That's an age group where KROQ has traditionally had a good deal of listenership.
It looks like KCBS has also put a dent in the numbers of another sister station: K-Earth.
>
> Quote taken from RnR...
>
> "The spring story continues, as KROQ/Los Angeles pulls in
> its lowest Arbitron showing
> in close to five years" This aint no wobble babble.
>
> What is surprising is that Clear Channel hasn't really
> counter programmed any of it's stations against Jack or
> Infinity for that matter to get it's male numbers up or at
> least take a risk and convert a station like STAR into a
> Indie Hybrid format to counter KROQ and lean alittle more
> female.
>
> Indie's independance from CC seems to have not at all
> impacted it's advertising roster as they continue with
> NATIONAL sales spots even though the experts on this board
> said those spots would dry up in 30, 60, 90 days.
>
> Well, we are well past those marks and their spot loads and
> quality remain as they were, high and high quality. Given
> the crap ads that Groove and KDL had day in and day out,
> this format has at least in this department been a winner.
> Seems more and more that the format itself would do more
> harm on a broader signal given the recent Book results in
> San Diego showing the ne0-alt up book and veteran alt rocker
> 91x at it's near lowest level in almost 20 years. It is
> apparent to me that this market could be shaken by moving
> Indie's format to a signal like STAR at that would push
> veteran KROQ down to the low level 2's 91x is seeing. I
> sight San Diego as a good example because Alt wise, the
> market tastes and actions of the all important male demo
> 18-34 lifestyles are very similiar.
>
> As far as Latino goes, I am not sure it will kill off POWER
> just yet. Do young influential latino young males think a
> moniker like "Latino 96.3" cool enough to spread it to their
> friends?? Meaning, who in that league will win the cool
> factor, Latino or Power? Power will. Power still is the
> STREET king of Los Angeles. SBS failed at the moniker, and
> in this market, that matters. Univision wins for best
> moniker in the Reggaeton Hurban format explosion naming it's
> new format's LA CALLE, or THE STREET, very smart and a
> winning moniker in my books. Latino 96.3 smells and sounds
> very ethnic, that concerns me.
>
His words are not racist. Looking for racism and finding it are two different things. Let's keep it positive around here, eh?
Gracias.
> > Also, as the number of blancos decline and the number of
> > Latinos increases, you'll see KROQ decline even more.
> > Numeros, solamente.
>
> Your presumption and mildly racist choice of words is
> inaccurate.
>
> A large percentage of Hispanics are white.
>
Gracias.
> > Also, as the number of blancos decline and the number of
> > Latinos increases, you'll see KROQ decline even more.
> > Numeros, solamente.
>
> Your presumption and mildly racist choice of words is
> inaccurate.
>
> A large percentage of Hispanics are white.
>
Re: STILL whining about Indie?
I agree completely. The I-know-more-than-you's on this board were correct in initially shooting down unrealistic expectations for ratings and format growth, however those same people seem to be unfair in not giving the station its well-deserved props when they are legitimately earned. The station has shown tremendous growth in a niche format on one of the weakest signals in town. No small feat. It is beating all of the sports stations, KDAY, and the much ballyhooed (on this board anyways) KTLK. And this is all being done with almost no promotion whatsoever.
For the rating/stat guys, nothing this station does will ever consititute more than a wobble simply because the station does not have enough power - unless it goes down, in which case they will say they told you so.
Here's props to Indie - like em or not, they are what radio should be all about - taking a chance, not playing it safe and serving their listeners.
>
> KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up 67%
> from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75% from
> last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's a
> four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are not
> big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and
> make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0
> share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a year
> and make the station very profitable.
>
> I still think people need to ease up on the Indie criticism.
> I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) -
> however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with
> it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
>
I agree completely. The I-know-more-than-you's on this board were correct in initially shooting down unrealistic expectations for ratings and format growth, however those same people seem to be unfair in not giving the station its well-deserved props when they are legitimately earned. The station has shown tremendous growth in a niche format on one of the weakest signals in town. No small feat. It is beating all of the sports stations, KDAY, and the much ballyhooed (on this board anyways) KTLK. And this is all being done with almost no promotion whatsoever.
For the rating/stat guys, nothing this station does will ever consititute more than a wobble simply because the station does not have enough power - unless it goes down, in which case they will say they told you so.
Here's props to Indie - like em or not, they are what radio should be all about - taking a chance, not playing it safe and serving their listeners.
>
> KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up 67%
> from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75% from
> last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's a
> four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are not
> big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and
> make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0
> share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a year
> and make the station very profitable.
>
> I still think people need to ease up on the Indie criticism.
> I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) -
> however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with
> it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
>
Re: STILL whining about Indie?
> I agree completely. The I-know-more-than-you's on this board
> were correct in initially shooting down unrealistic
> expectations for ratings and format growth, however those
> same people seem to be unfair in not giving the station its
> well-deserved props when they are legitimately earned. The
> station has shown tremendous growth in a niche format on one
> of the weakest signals in town. No small feat. It is beating
> all of the sports stations, KDAY, and the much ballyhooed
> (on this board anyways) KTLK. And this is all being done
> with almost no promotion whatsoever.
>
> For the rating/stat guys, nothing this station does will
> ever consititute more than a wobble simply because the
> station does not have enough power - unless it goes down, in
> which case they will say they told you so.
>
> Here's props to Indie - like em or not, they are what radio
> should be all about - taking a chance, not playing it safe
> and serving their listeners.
>
>
>
> >
> > KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up
> 67%
> > from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75%
> from
> > last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's
> a
> > four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are
> not
> > big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and
> > make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0
> > share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a
> year
> > and make the station very profitable.
> >
> > I still think people need to ease up on the Indie
> criticism.
> > I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) -
> > however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with
>
> > it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
> >
>
I agree about some things - but Indie did a MAJOR marketing campaign - mostly in Orange County in the spring book - that fueled that 25% gain in cume.
KDAY, on the other hand, has done some marketing - but mostly last fall. KTLK has done some. Indie has been around 18 months - where KDAY and KTLK are less than a year old .
Most agencies buy on multiple book (a lot four book) average and none of them buy 12+ (many of them fall, winter, spring, summer) and they buy in the fall. The three-book on KDAY 18-34 is 38% higher than Indie, KDAY's 18-49 is a tenth higher, while Indie's 25-54 was 20% higher than KDAY's (so it's six of this, half dozen of another).
I am a ratings/stat guy - so I take offense to the ratings/stat guy comment
The difference is - I don't look at a 12+ number on R&R and then go a make a general statement like so many people do on this board. I try and look at target demos over multiple books and trends.
> I agree completely. The I-know-more-than-you's on this board
> were correct in initially shooting down unrealistic
> expectations for ratings and format growth, however those
> same people seem to be unfair in not giving the station its
> well-deserved props when they are legitimately earned. The
> station has shown tremendous growth in a niche format on one
> of the weakest signals in town. No small feat. It is beating
> all of the sports stations, KDAY, and the much ballyhooed
> (on this board anyways) KTLK. And this is all being done
> with almost no promotion whatsoever.
>
> For the rating/stat guys, nothing this station does will
> ever consititute more than a wobble simply because the
> station does not have enough power - unless it goes down, in
> which case they will say they told you so.
>
> Here's props to Indie - like em or not, they are what radio
> should be all about - taking a chance, not playing it safe
> and serving their listeners.
>
>
>
> >
> > KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up
> 67%
> > from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75%
> from
> > last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's
> a
> > four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are
> not
> > big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and
> > make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0
> > share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a
> year
> > and make the station very profitable.
> >
> > I still think people need to ease up on the Indie
> criticism.
> > I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) -
> > however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with
>
> > it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
> >
>
I agree about some things - but Indie did a MAJOR marketing campaign - mostly in Orange County in the spring book - that fueled that 25% gain in cume.
KDAY, on the other hand, has done some marketing - but mostly last fall. KTLK has done some. Indie has been around 18 months - where KDAY and KTLK are less than a year old .
Most agencies buy on multiple book (a lot four book) average and none of them buy 12+ (many of them fall, winter, spring, summer) and they buy in the fall. The three-book on KDAY 18-34 is 38% higher than Indie, KDAY's 18-49 is a tenth higher, while Indie's 25-54 was 20% higher than KDAY's (so it's six of this, half dozen of another).
I am a ratings/stat guy - so I take offense to the ratings/stat guy comment
The difference is - I don't look at a 12+ number on R&R and then go a make a general statement like so many people do on this board. I try and look at target demos over multiple books and trends.Re: KROQ likely lost some share to Jack
> It's probably a safe assumption that KROQ's own sister
> station is pulling at least some share from KROQ. Generally
> speaking, many "Jack" listeners are in their 30's. That's
> an age group where KROQ has traditionally had a good deal of
> listenership.
Very interesting statement - and more importantly, some stats that may surprise you...
First off, Jack saw a TSL gain from Arrow so the TSL that they took from other stations occurred almost across the board. It was how much cume shifted over to them that is more notable. KROQ, KYSR, and KBIG were affected as you would expect. But KZLA, KIIS and KDAY were affected as well. KRTH was affected, but not as dramatically as some have stated
> It's probably a safe assumption that KROQ's own sister
> station is pulling at least some share from KROQ. Generally
> speaking, many "Jack" listeners are in their 30's. That's
> an age group where KROQ has traditionally had a good deal of
> listenership.
Very interesting statement - and more importantly, some stats that may surprise you...
First off, Jack saw a TSL gain from Arrow so the TSL that they took from other stations occurred almost across the board. It was how much cume shifted over to them that is more notable. KROQ, KYSR, and KBIG were affected as you would expect. But KZLA, KIIS and KDAY were affected as well. KRTH was affected, but not as dramatically as some have stated
K
KMRichards
Guest
Re: STILL whining about Indie?
> I agree completely. The I-know-more-than-you's on this board
> were correct in initially shooting down unrealistic
> expectations for ratings and format growth, however those
> same people seem to be unfair in not giving the station its
> well-deserved props when they are legitimately earned. The
> station has shown tremendous growth in a niche format on one
> of the weakest signals in town. No small feat. It is beating
> all of the sports stations, KDAY, and the much ballyhooed
> (on this board anyways) KTLK. And this is all being done
> with almost no promotion whatsoever.
I still don't see why you guys call minor increases within the wobble spread "tremendous". Yes, Indie is doing the best it can for its signal. But it's not as spectacular as you guys want to make it.
> For the rating/stat guys, nothing this station does will
> ever consititute more than a wobble simply because the
> station does not have enough power - unless it goes down, in
> which case they will say they told you so.
Actually, David and I have said that the drops in trends in the past are also within that wobble.
If you don't want to believe us about wobble, go ask Arbitron.
> Here's props to Indie - like em or not, they are what radio
> should be all about - taking a chance, not playing it safe
> and serving their listeners.
I have never had a problem with the format. In fact, much of the gold they play are the songs I have loved for 20 or so years.
But -- and this is a big "but" -- there is going to be a natural limit to how long Entravision will keep settling for the mediocre ratings that Indie can generate because of a lack of full-market coverage. And when that time comes, whether it be one year from now or five, no one else in the market will take the chance to resurrect the format.
That is the real tragedy.
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
> I agree completely. The I-know-more-than-you's on this board
> were correct in initially shooting down unrealistic
> expectations for ratings and format growth, however those
> same people seem to be unfair in not giving the station its
> well-deserved props when they are legitimately earned. The
> station has shown tremendous growth in a niche format on one
> of the weakest signals in town. No small feat. It is beating
> all of the sports stations, KDAY, and the much ballyhooed
> (on this board anyways) KTLK. And this is all being done
> with almost no promotion whatsoever.
I still don't see why you guys call minor increases within the wobble spread "tremendous". Yes, Indie is doing the best it can for its signal. But it's not as spectacular as you guys want to make it.
> For the rating/stat guys, nothing this station does will
> ever consititute more than a wobble simply because the
> station does not have enough power - unless it goes down, in
> which case they will say they told you so.
Actually, David and I have said that the drops in trends in the past are also within that wobble.
If you don't want to believe us about wobble, go ask Arbitron.
> Here's props to Indie - like em or not, they are what radio
> should be all about - taking a chance, not playing it safe
> and serving their listeners.
I have never had a problem with the format. In fact, much of the gold they play are the songs I have loved for 20 or so years.
But -- and this is a big "but" -- there is going to be a natural limit to how long Entravision will keep settling for the mediocre ratings that Indie can generate because of a lack of full-market coverage. And when that time comes, whether it be one year from now or five, no one else in the market will take the chance to resurrect the format.
That is the real tragedy.
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
Re: KIIS lost to Latino, not Jack
>
> First off, Jack saw a TSL gain from Arrow so the TSL that
> they took from other stations occurred almost across the
> board. It was how much cume shifted over to them that is
> more notable. KROQ, KYSR, and KBIG were affected as you
> would expect. But KZLA, KIIS and KDAY were affected as well.
> KRTH was affected, but not as dramatically as some have
> stated
>
The KIIS losses as well as the KDAy ones were due to KXOL's June format change. It immiediately impacted KIIS, and also hurt Power, KDAY and KSSE.
KZLA just wobbles. It was within range.
>
> First off, Jack saw a TSL gain from Arrow so the TSL that
> they took from other stations occurred almost across the
> board. It was how much cume shifted over to them that is
> more notable. KROQ, KYSR, and KBIG were affected as you
> would expect. But KZLA, KIIS and KDAY were affected as well.
> KRTH was affected, but not as dramatically as some have
> stated
>
The KIIS losses as well as the KDAy ones were due to KXOL's June format change. It immiediately impacted KIIS, and also hurt Power, KDAY and KSSE.
KZLA just wobbles. It was within range.
Re: STILL whining about Indie?
>
> KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up 67%
> from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75% from
> last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's a
> four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are not
> big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and
> make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0
> share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a year
> and make the station very profitable.
Stations do not bill in proprotion to share. they bill in proportion to share, demos and rank.
A low rated, minimal coverage 1 share might bill $6 million under very good conditions. There is just not much business being bought over 10 deep on any demo. And Indie is just not good enough to get on agency buys except comboed with other staitons.
High rated stations get on most of the buys and take most of the money, especially in the competitive demos.
The real point is that the station must cash flow about 6 to 7 million to be a good investment... and it is likely it will not do half that if lucky.
>
> I still think people need to ease up on the Indie criticism.
> I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) -
> however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with
> it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
>
The problem is that they are not doing well financially. This is like the absurd arguments about Energy in Chicago which garnered some numbers, but always lost money. It was just not high enough in the rankers to generate interest.
>
> KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up 67%
> from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75% from
> last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's a
> four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are not
> big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and
> make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0
> share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a year
> and make the station very profitable.
Stations do not bill in proprotion to share. they bill in proportion to share, demos and rank.
A low rated, minimal coverage 1 share might bill $6 million under very good conditions. There is just not much business being bought over 10 deep on any demo. And Indie is just not good enough to get on agency buys except comboed with other staitons.
High rated stations get on most of the buys and take most of the money, especially in the competitive demos.
The real point is that the station must cash flow about 6 to 7 million to be a good investment... and it is likely it will not do half that if lucky.
>
> I still think people need to ease up on the Indie criticism.
> I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) -
> however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with
> it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
>
The problem is that they are not doing well financially. This is like the absurd arguments about Energy in Chicago which garnered some numbers, but always lost money. It was just not high enough in the rankers to generate interest.
Re: STILL whining about Indie?
> >
> > KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up
> 67%
> > from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75%
> from
> > last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's
> a
> > four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are
> not
> > big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and
> > make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0
> > share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a
> year
> > and make the station very profitable.
>
> Stations do not bill in proprotion to share. they bill in
> proportion to share, demos and rank.
>
> A low rated, minimal coverage 1 share might bill $6 million
> under very good conditions. There is just not much business
> being bought over 10 deep on any demo. And Indie is just not
> good enough to get on agency buys except comboed with other
> staitons.
>
> High rated stations get on most of the buys and take most of
> the money, especially in the competitive demos.
>
> The real point is that the station must cash flow about 6 to
> 7 million to be a good investment... and it is likely it
> will not do half that if lucky.
> >
> > I still think people need to ease up on the Indie
> criticism.
> > I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) -
> > however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with
>
> > it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
> >
>
> The problem is that they are not doing well financially.
> This is like the absurd arguments about Energy in Chicago
> which garnered some numbers, but always lost money. It was
> just not high enough in the rankers to generate interest.
>
I think we need to give Entravision a chance. My guess is they will bill north of $7 million this year. Next year, they could reach $10 million if the numbers stay steady...
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radioresearcher on 07/24/05 09:34 AM.</FONT></P>
> >
> > KDLD/KDLE are up for the fourth consecutive book 12+ (up
> 67%
> > from summer of last year), 18-49 (where they are up 75%
> from
> > last summer), and 25-54 (up 86% from last summer). That's
> a
> > four-book trend with consistent growth. The numbers are
> not
> > big by any means - but definitely good enough to sell and
> > make a profit. If they can keep the station around a 1.0
> > share consistently - they could bill $10-$12 million a
> year
> > and make the station very profitable.
>
> Stations do not bill in proprotion to share. they bill in
> proportion to share, demos and rank.
>
> A low rated, minimal coverage 1 share might bill $6 million
> under very good conditions. There is just not much business
> being bought over 10 deep on any demo. And Indie is just not
> good enough to get on agency buys except comboed with other
> staitons.
>
> High rated stations get on most of the buys and take most of
> the money, especially in the competitive demos.
>
> The real point is that the station must cash flow about 6 to
> 7 million to be a good investment... and it is likely it
> will not do half that if lucky.
> >
> > I still think people need to ease up on the Indie
> criticism.
> > I'm not necessarily a fan (I happen to enjoy KROQ more) -
> > however, I applaud them for taking a chance, sticking with
>
> > it, and doing well with a fringe signal.
> >
>
> The problem is that they are not doing well financially.
> This is like the absurd arguments about Energy in Chicago
> which garnered some numbers, but always lost money. It was
> just not high enough in the rankers to generate interest.
>
I think we need to give Entravision a chance. My guess is they will bill north of $7 million this year. Next year, they could reach $10 million if the numbers stay steady...
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radioresearcher on 07/24/05 09:34 AM.</FONT></P>
Re: KIIS lost to Latino, not Jack
> >
> > First off, Jack saw a TSL gain from Arrow so the TSL that
> > they took from other stations occurred almost across the
> > board. It was how much cume shifted over to them that is
> > more notable. KROQ, KYSR, and KBIG were affected as you
> > would expect. But KZLA, KIIS and KDAY were affected as
> well.
> > KRTH was affected, but not as dramatically as some have
> > stated
> >
>
> The KIIS losses as well as the KDAy ones were due to KXOL's
> June format change. It immiediately impacted KIIS, and also
> hurt Power, KDAY and KSSE.
>
> KZLA just wobbles. It was within range.
>
Looking at the monthlies with 12+ Hispanic - KDAY and KIIS were flat from May to June (KDAY with a TSL boost, KIIS with a cume boost), Power was flat in share, and KSSE was off 5%. 18-34 Hispanic saw KDAY flat May to June, KIIS up, KPWR and KSSE off 10%.
I think one month is way too early to judge.
Now, all of this of course, was without the benefit of including diary placement.
> >
> > First off, Jack saw a TSL gain from Arrow so the TSL that
> > they took from other stations occurred almost across the
> > board. It was how much cume shifted over to them that is
> > more notable. KROQ, KYSR, and KBIG were affected as you
> > would expect. But KZLA, KIIS and KDAY were affected as
> well.
> > KRTH was affected, but not as dramatically as some have
> > stated
> >
>
> The KIIS losses as well as the KDAy ones were due to KXOL's
> June format change. It immiediately impacted KIIS, and also
> hurt Power, KDAY and KSSE.
>
> KZLA just wobbles. It was within range.
>
Looking at the monthlies with 12+ Hispanic - KDAY and KIIS were flat from May to June (KDAY with a TSL boost, KIIS with a cume boost), Power was flat in share, and KSSE was off 5%. 18-34 Hispanic saw KDAY flat May to June, KIIS up, KPWR and KSSE off 10%.
I think one month is way too early to judge.
Now, all of this of course, was without the benefit of including diary placement.
Re: KIIS lost to Latino, not Jack
> >
> Looking at the monthlies with 12+ Hispanic - KDAY and KIIS
> were flat from May to June (KDAY with a TSL boost, KIIS with
> a cume boost), Power was flat in share, and KSSE was off 5%.
> 18-34 Hispanic saw KDAY flat May to June, KIIS up, KPWR and
> KSSE off 10%.
>
> I think one month is way too early to judge.
In June, KIIS showed considersable 12-24 erosion, and running the complete data set throuh SPSS for corelation shows extreme matching. Addionall outside research shows KIIS, KDAY and Power losing big chunks to Latino.
I believe Latino is a 3.6 to 4.0 share staiton, with about 1.2 coming off KIIS, 1.0 off Power, 0.8 coming from KSSE and the rest from miscellneous things like KDAY, KBIG (reggaeton is very strong with 25-34 females)and increased usage.
> >
> Looking at the monthlies with 12+ Hispanic - KDAY and KIIS
> were flat from May to June (KDAY with a TSL boost, KIIS with
> a cume boost), Power was flat in share, and KSSE was off 5%.
> 18-34 Hispanic saw KDAY flat May to June, KIIS up, KPWR and
> KSSE off 10%.
>
> I think one month is way too early to judge.
In June, KIIS showed considersable 12-24 erosion, and running the complete data set throuh SPSS for corelation shows extreme matching. Addionall outside research shows KIIS, KDAY and Power losing big chunks to Latino.
I believe Latino is a 3.6 to 4.0 share staiton, with about 1.2 coming off KIIS, 1.0 off Power, 0.8 coming from KSSE and the rest from miscellneous things like KDAY, KBIG (reggaeton is very strong with 25-34 females)and increased usage.
D
dirkdiggler
Guest
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dirkdiggler
Guest
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Re: KIIS lost to Latino, not Jack
> > >
> > Looking at the monthlies with 12+ Hispanic - KDAY and KIIS
>
> > were flat from May to June (KDAY with a TSL boost, KIIS
> with
> > a cume boost), Power was flat in share, and KSSE was off
> 5%.
> > 18-34 Hispanic saw KDAY flat May to June, KIIS up, KPWR
> and
> > KSSE off 10%.
> >
> > I think one month is way too early to judge.
>
> In June, KIIS showed considersable 12-24 erosion, and
> running the complete data set throuh SPSS for corelation
> shows extreme matching. Addionall outside research shows
> KIIS, KDAY and Power losing big chunks to Latino.
>
> I believe Latino is a 3.6 to 4.0 share staiton, with about
> 1.2 coming off KIIS, 1.0 off Power, 0.8 coming from KSSE and
> the rest from miscellneous things like KDAY, KBIG (reggaeton
> is very strong with 25-34 females)and increased usage.
>
I notice you don't mention KKBT. While they don't have the Hispanic comp that KDAY or KPWR has - KKBT is a P2 for a lot of hip-hop listeners - including Hispanics - so you would expect them to lose some of their Hispanic TSL (they also had a dreadful June - although it seemed more like it was due more to the change in mornings and diary returns).
I think KKBT stands to lose something there.
> > >
> > Looking at the monthlies with 12+ Hispanic - KDAY and KIIS
>
> > were flat from May to June (KDAY with a TSL boost, KIIS
> with
> > a cume boost), Power was flat in share, and KSSE was off
> 5%.
> > 18-34 Hispanic saw KDAY flat May to June, KIIS up, KPWR
> and
> > KSSE off 10%.
> >
> > I think one month is way too early to judge.
>
> In June, KIIS showed considersable 12-24 erosion, and
> running the complete data set throuh SPSS for corelation
> shows extreme matching. Addionall outside research shows
> KIIS, KDAY and Power losing big chunks to Latino.
>
> I believe Latino is a 3.6 to 4.0 share staiton, with about
> 1.2 coming off KIIS, 1.0 off Power, 0.8 coming from KSSE and
> the rest from miscellneous things like KDAY, KBIG (reggaeton
> is very strong with 25-34 females)and increased usage.
>
I notice you don't mention KKBT. While they don't have the Hispanic comp that KDAY or KPWR has - KKBT is a P2 for a lot of hip-hop listeners - including Hispanics - so you would expect them to lose some of their Hispanic TSL (they also had a dreadful June - although it seemed more like it was due more to the change in mornings and diary returns).
I think KKBT stands to lose something there.
>
> As far as Latino goes, I am not sure it will kill off POWER
> just yet. Do young influential latino young males think a
> moniker like "Latino 96.3" cool enough to spread it to their
> friends?? Meaning, who in that league will win the cool
> factor, Latino or Power? Power will. Power still is the
> STREET king of Los Angeles. SBS failed at the moniker, and
> in this market, that matters. Univision wins for best
> moniker in the Reggaeton Hurban format explosion naming it's
> new format's LA CALLE, or THE STREET, very smart and a
> winning moniker in my books. Latino 96.3 smells and sounds
> very ethnic, that concerns me.
>
I agree that La Kalle is a better moniker. It gives the station more leeway musically, is not off-putting to non-Latinos who might enjoy the station, and it speaks to what the music and the station are supposed to be about.
Re: KXOL. Encouraging ethnic identification and “pride” to spawn action is definitely a powerful motivational tool – ask anyone familiar with Jefferson High. In situations like this, one’s choices are encouraged to be tied to their own self-pride/esteem/ego, trumping other motivations – tastes, morals, etc. Good or bad, it works.
When the Latino 96.3 website first debuted there was a guestbook for listeners. I read it a number of times and I had never before seen so many racist/ethnocentric/nationalist/provincial comments on a radio station’s site. Nevertheless, some of the posters had a valid question: why does a station that calls itself “Latino” and whose motto is “Latino and Proud” play music by non-Latinos? Also, if the emphasis of the station is on its “Latino-ness” then why only focus on hip-hop and reggaeton and ignore other genres that proud Latinos like – banda, cumbia, salsa, merengue, etc.? Especially when hip-hop is not a genre born out of Latino culture. Even reggaeton’s existence has as much to do with West Indian/Afro-Carribbean influence as it does with any Hispanic influence. In other words, hip-hop and reggaeton aren’t the most “Latino” genres one can find. (Japanese people might play/sing mariachi music, but that doesn't make the music "Japanese").
KXOL has positioned itself into a corner IMO. So far it works but whether it does in the long-term remains to be seen. Either way and if necessary, KIIS and Power can effectively respond by essentially taking up the “no color lines” mantle dropped by The Beat. Not necessarily the slogan, but the spirit – a station for everybody which in this market includes a large number of Latinos. This can be reflected in on-air presentation, playlist, DJ line-up, street promotions, etc. – obviously, more so than they are currently doing.
KIIS and Power can incorporate Latin hip-hop and reggaeton in addition to English pop/R&B by Latino artists without contradicting their positionings. KIIS plays popular contemporary music – all the hits. Power plays hip-hop and whatever the streets are feeling at the moment – whether it’s “Pure Energy, Dance Now” or “Where Hip-Hop Lives” or “Blazin’ Hip-Hop & R&B”. 96.3’s stance (I’m guessing) is that if you’re proud to be Latino you would choose to listen to it versus the other stations. Musically they say they're "reggaeton y Latin hip-hop" but that's not all they play; they seem to be conflicted and/or constricted.
I do get an 80s Freestyle vibe from reggaeton. One similarity is that the genre is too married to a particular beat. Another is the limited regional and ethnic appeal, broken only when the music is aborbed and/or crosses over. Freestyle first crossed over to urban radio, then eventually pop where it was absorbed and later dropped. With Jay-Z and P. Diddy now signing Latin hip-hop and reggaeton artists, and Pitbull now on tour with Lil John and Ying-Yang Twins, I expect some absorption of LHH and reggaeton into the general hip-hop circle. This bodes well for Power as a “hip-hop” station (music-based), but not Latino as a presumably “Latino” station (ethnicity-based).
On their side, KIIS and Power have heritage, musical leeway, and broader appeal. Many Latino adults will not even consider a steady diet of hip-hop and reggaeton. For Latino youth who don’t fluently speak or understand Spanish, listening to music that you don’t comprehend the lyrics to might get tiring. For some, the monotony will wear thin. I listened to the station for about 2 weeks but couldn’t take it after that; funny enough, it was the English hip-hop mixed in that made it bearable. Either way, I expect decent Summer numbers for 96.3 mainly from a segment of young Latinos. After that, we’ll see.
> As far as Latino goes, I am not sure it will kill off POWER
> just yet. Do young influential latino young males think a
> moniker like "Latino 96.3" cool enough to spread it to their
> friends?? Meaning, who in that league will win the cool
> factor, Latino or Power? Power will. Power still is the
> STREET king of Los Angeles. SBS failed at the moniker, and
> in this market, that matters. Univision wins for best
> moniker in the Reggaeton Hurban format explosion naming it's
> new format's LA CALLE, or THE STREET, very smart and a
> winning moniker in my books. Latino 96.3 smells and sounds
> very ethnic, that concerns me.
>
I agree that La Kalle is a better moniker. It gives the station more leeway musically, is not off-putting to non-Latinos who might enjoy the station, and it speaks to what the music and the station are supposed to be about.
Re: KXOL. Encouraging ethnic identification and “pride” to spawn action is definitely a powerful motivational tool – ask anyone familiar with Jefferson High. In situations like this, one’s choices are encouraged to be tied to their own self-pride/esteem/ego, trumping other motivations – tastes, morals, etc. Good or bad, it works.
When the Latino 96.3 website first debuted there was a guestbook for listeners. I read it a number of times and I had never before seen so many racist/ethnocentric/nationalist/provincial comments on a radio station’s site. Nevertheless, some of the posters had a valid question: why does a station that calls itself “Latino” and whose motto is “Latino and Proud” play music by non-Latinos? Also, if the emphasis of the station is on its “Latino-ness” then why only focus on hip-hop and reggaeton and ignore other genres that proud Latinos like – banda, cumbia, salsa, merengue, etc.? Especially when hip-hop is not a genre born out of Latino culture. Even reggaeton’s existence has as much to do with West Indian/Afro-Carribbean influence as it does with any Hispanic influence. In other words, hip-hop and reggaeton aren’t the most “Latino” genres one can find. (Japanese people might play/sing mariachi music, but that doesn't make the music "Japanese").
KXOL has positioned itself into a corner IMO. So far it works but whether it does in the long-term remains to be seen. Either way and if necessary, KIIS and Power can effectively respond by essentially taking up the “no color lines” mantle dropped by The Beat. Not necessarily the slogan, but the spirit – a station for everybody which in this market includes a large number of Latinos. This can be reflected in on-air presentation, playlist, DJ line-up, street promotions, etc. – obviously, more so than they are currently doing.
KIIS and Power can incorporate Latin hip-hop and reggaeton in addition to English pop/R&B by Latino artists without contradicting their positionings. KIIS plays popular contemporary music – all the hits. Power plays hip-hop and whatever the streets are feeling at the moment – whether it’s “Pure Energy, Dance Now” or “Where Hip-Hop Lives” or “Blazin’ Hip-Hop & R&B”. 96.3’s stance (I’m guessing) is that if you’re proud to be Latino you would choose to listen to it versus the other stations. Musically they say they're "reggaeton y Latin hip-hop" but that's not all they play; they seem to be conflicted and/or constricted.
I do get an 80s Freestyle vibe from reggaeton. One similarity is that the genre is too married to a particular beat. Another is the limited regional and ethnic appeal, broken only when the music is aborbed and/or crosses over. Freestyle first crossed over to urban radio, then eventually pop where it was absorbed and later dropped. With Jay-Z and P. Diddy now signing Latin hip-hop and reggaeton artists, and Pitbull now on tour with Lil John and Ying-Yang Twins, I expect some absorption of LHH and reggaeton into the general hip-hop circle. This bodes well for Power as a “hip-hop” station (music-based), but not Latino as a presumably “Latino” station (ethnicity-based).
On their side, KIIS and Power have heritage, musical leeway, and broader appeal. Many Latino adults will not even consider a steady diet of hip-hop and reggaeton. For Latino youth who don’t fluently speak or understand Spanish, listening to music that you don’t comprehend the lyrics to might get tiring. For some, the monotony will wear thin. I listened to the station for about 2 weeks but couldn’t take it after that; funny enough, it was the English hip-hop mixed in that made it bearable. Either way, I expect decent Summer numbers for 96.3 mainly from a segment of young Latinos. After that, we’ll see.
- Status