KRTH 101 Classic Hits

[RIN3GUY]

David: If the corporate research propaganda is correct as you, Michael and others have described it, I can only conclude that music connoisseurs are at significant odds with the general radio listening public. All I know is that the typical standard fare on most stations does not work for me, it does not work well for several others on this board, and it doesn't work for a whole lot of other music-loving radio listeners that I know. We require more variety! Yes, the "deeper, more extended playlists" are what we long for. We want to have the possibility of having a day without hearing a single Eagles song, or any other song that we heard just yesterday or the day before.

I am not conceding that the corporate research accurately describes the Classic Hits audience because I believe that its synthesis is somehow flawed. However, its general application is certainly the major impetus that drives the rise of the many alternatives to terrestrial radio today. I predict that they will only continue to grow and prosper.

 

[michael hagerty]

David: If the corporate research propaganda is correct as you, Michael and others have described it, I can only conclude that music connoisseurs are at significant odds with the general radio listening public.

Which is the very first point i made when I posted in these threads some months ago, which got a reaction of "Are you calling us weird?"

No. You just want different things from your music and your radio than most people. There are other groups of people who want different things from their music and their radio, too. But those tastes and preferences collide and the groups can't be cobbled together into a large enough consistent audience to be commercially successful. The currrent Classic Hits audience is large enough and consistent.

We want to have the possibility of having a day without hearing a single Eagles song..

And because you, by admission, listen much longer than the average, you would be ensuring that the other listeners didn't hear a single Eagles song, either. The most popular American band in history. 42 million copies sold of the Greatest Hits album alone.

I am not conceding that the corporate research accurately describes the Classic Hits audience because I believe that its synthesis is somehow flawed.

Were that true, very few if any Classic Hits stations would have meaningful ratings. The audience would simply have rejected what they heard and moved on, splitting the listening time between their other 6 to 8 stations and their own music. They'd treat it as though there wasn't a Classic Hits station in their market.

And we know that's not what's been happening the past 8 years.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

Ok I'd like to make a few points-

First, regarding calling The Eagles "the most popular American band in history" --- I don't know. I hate things like that, because, fact is you need the RIAA to be keeping track, and while the Eagles are among the high rankers, many, many popular groups spanning the 1950's-1980's went unaudited by the RIAA. So, really beyond Elivs and The Beatles, it gets fishy. The Eagles are definately popular, but I don't know about "most popular".

Second, I'd like to add that in order to understand more of what's being said in this thread, I've been listening in to KRTH. I have to say, that the playlist is definately quite good in my opinion for a major market classic hits station. I'm hearing plenty I have NEVER heard here in Chicago on any of the 3 Classic Hits stations we have or have had recently.
Side Note - Not liking the "accapella" like jingles, or the DJ on now - talks too much over the song intros.

Anyway, I'm hearing lots of interesting things - "Gloria" by Them, I'm used to The Shadows of Knight version. And sure as you know, "Want Ads" (my famed example of neglected tunes) was listed on the playlist - too bad I didn't hear it. Anyway, my point is - that this is closer to the balance, that I personally desire from Classic Hits. The comments in the other thread about a version of "Always Something There To Remind Me", yeah that wouldn't work. I think we're getting hung up on far flung examples most of the time, and that's not (at least in my opinion) what I'm looking for either.

Couple of questions: Is this fairly consistent with their regular playlist? Have they overgone any changes musically recently?

Last things: Regarding "Not Being A Regular Listener" I just sorta roughly figured out how much I listen on average. I'd say that I listen between 45 min - 1 Hour for the most part on weekdays. It used to be (over a year ago) closer to 1Hour - Hour and a half a day, and as much as 4/5 Hours Sat/Sun - but that's long gone. My point is, my listening habits are not crazy.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

Some more gems played today (so far) on KRTH: These stand out more vs. the more frequent ones played daily.

7:49am "Call Me" - Chris Montez (1966)
8:34am "Love's Theme" - Love Unlimited Orchestra (1974)
9:55am "Afternoon Delight" - Starland Vocal Band (1976) That's twice in two days!!
10:31am "Heartbreak Hotel" - Elvis Presley (1956)
12:34pm "What You Won't Do For Love" - Bobby Caldwell (1979)
3:02pm "Walking in Rhythm" - Blackbyrds (1975)
3:52pm "Want Ads" - Honey Cone (1971)

And KRTH still digging into the 50's (heck even if it's just one song!)

Crazy! I'm loving what I'm seeing. These are "oh-wow's" for me - not the examples we've been hung up on before!

 

[davideduardo]

Some more gems played today (so far) on KRTH: These stand out more vs. the more frequent ones played daily.

7:49am "Call Me" - Chris Montez (1966)
8:34am "Love's Theme" - Love Unlimited Orchestra (1974)
9:55am "Afternoon Delight" - Starland Vocal Band (1976) That's twice in two days!!
10:31am "Heartbreak Hotel" - Elvis Presley (1956)
12:34pm "What You Won't Do For Love" - Bobby Caldwell (1979)
3:02pm "Walking in Rhythm" - Blackbyrds (1975)
3:52pm "Want Ads" - Honey Cone (1971)

And KRTH still digging into the 50's (heck even if it's just one song!)

Crazy! I'm loving what I'm seeing. These are "oh-wow's" for me - not the examples we've been hung up on before!

What I am seeing is why KRTH's Hispanic audience is declining and will likely shrink further. With one or two possible exception, none of those songs was a hit anywhere in in Latin America, and the couple that did get play were not big hits.

Since the Hispanic audience is nearly 50% of KRTH's total audience, this could be a major issue for them.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

I'm curious, would you be able to provide some example of hits that you feel would be representative of the Hispanic audience, that would fit well with KRTH's playlist?

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

What I am seeing is why KRTH's Hispanic audience is declining and will likely shrink further. With one or two possible exception, none of those songs was a hit anywhere in in Latin America, and the couple that did get play were not big hits.

Since the Hispanic audience is nearly 50% of KRTH's total audience, this could be a major issue for them.

Well now you're illustrating part of the problem. If testing is the be all and end all, then KRTH likely is testing groups with at least 50% Hispanic panelists, and since you have said repeatedly "all songs get tested at some point", then likely the songs that you feel would help skew the audience more appropriately likely got tested and were received poorly.

We know KRTH tests, so the fact your concerned with it is what concerns me. Shouldn't it be perfect?

 

[michael hagerty]

What I am seeing is why KRTH's Hispanic audience is declining and will likely shrink further. With one or two possible exception, none of those songs was a hit anywhere in in Latin America, and the couple that did get play were not big hits.

Since the Hispanic audience is nearly 50% of KRTH's total audience, this could be a major issue for them.

Well now you're illustrating part of the problem. If testing is the be all and end all, then KRTH likely is testing groups with at least 50% Hispanic panelists, and since you have said repeatedly "all songs get tested at some point", then likely the songs that you feel would help skew the audience more appropriately likely got tested and were received poorly.

We know KRTH tests, so the fact your concerned with it is what concerns me. Shouldn't it be perfect?

Poor or inconsistent implementation of what the audience told them in testing is far more likely. Could even be as simple as someone not policing the Selector codes, resulting in not enough play of those records.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

What I am seeing is why KRTH's Hispanic audience is declining and will likely shrink further. With one or two possible exception, none of those songs was a hit anywhere in in Latin America, and the couple that did get play were not big hits.

Since the Hispanic audience is nearly 50% of KRTH's total audience, this could be a major issue for them.

Well now you're illustrating part of the problem. If testing is the be all and end all, then KRTH likely is testing groups with at least 50% Hispanic panelists, and since you have said repeatedly "all songs get tested at some point", then likely the songs that you feel would help skew the audience more appropriately likely got tested and were received poorly.

We know KRTH tests, so the fact your concerned with it is what concerns me. Shouldn't it be perfect?

Poor or inconsistent implementation of what the audience told them in testing is far more likely. Could even be as simple as someone not policing the Selector codes, resulting in not enough play of those records.

Seriously? What happened to "Jhani's no slouch"?

So, any instance of our beef with testing is wrong, but yours is more grounded?

Either there's a problem with testing (which both of you have fought hard against in many cases) or the testing worked and that's not what they want to hear.

 

[semoochie]

I gave the example of a lower charting song to give the poster a feel of what an unplayed song would be like for the average listener. Unfortunately, it hadn't occurred to me that he'd be an expert on all the Billboard charts in history! Let's take Gary Lewis and the Playboy's "Paint Me A Picture", a seemingly big hit from 1966, that only made it to #15, nationally. This song hasn't been played with any regularity since it was current. The average person wouldn't recognize it at all and is not interested in expanding their musical knowledge. They just want to hear their favorite songs. You could say the same about "My Heart's Symphony" or even "Green Grass", peaking at #8 but unplayed on most Oldies stations.

 

[michael hagerty]

What I am seeing is why KRTH's Hispanic audience is declining and will likely shrink further. With one or two possible exception, none of those songs was a hit anywhere in in Latin America, and the couple that did get play were not big hits.

Since the Hispanic audience is nearly 50% of KRTH's total audience, this could be a major issue for them.

Well now you're illustrating part of the problem. If testing is the be all and end all, then KRTH likely is testing groups with at least 50% Hispanic panelists, and since you have said repeatedly "all songs get tested at some point", then likely the songs that you feel would help skew the audience more appropriately likely got tested and were received poorly.

We know KRTH tests, so the fact your concerned with it is what concerns me. Shouldn't it be perfect?

Poor or inconsistent implementation of what the audience told them in testing is far more likely. Could even be as simple as someone not policing the Selector codes, resulting in not enough play of those records.

Seriously? What happened to "Jhani's no slouch"?

So, any instance of our beef with testing is wrong, but yours is more grounded?

Either there's a problem with testing (which both of you have fought hard against in many cases) or the testing worked and that's not what they want to hear.

Wrong. Because the testing has to be implemented by humans. And it's three-dimensional chess.

If Jhani (or more likely, his assistant PD or music director) let the selector codes get out of whack, it needs to be fixed, but it doesn't make Jhani, who has been programming and doing very well in Los Angeles for more than 30 years, a slouch.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

Wrong. Because the testing has to be implemented by humans. And it's three-dimensional chess.

If Jhani (or more likely, his assistant PD or music director) let the selector codes get out of whack, it needs to be fixed, but it doesn't make Jhani, who has been programming and doing very well in Los Angeles for more than 30 years, a slouch.

Your basing your entire argument on a computer error, and not the possibility that the testing either failed, or it succeeded resulting in what the current playlist reflects.

 

[michael hagerty]

Wrong. Because the testing has to be implemented by humans. And it's three-dimensional chess.

If Jhani (or more likely, his assistant PD or music director) let the selector codes get out of whack, it needs to be fixed, but it doesn't make Jhani, who has been programming and doing very well in Los Angeles for more than 30 years, a slouch.

Your basing your entire argument on a computer error, and not the possibility that the testing either failed, or it succeeded resulting in what the current playlist reflects.

That's because successful implementation is not easy and human error is statistically much more likely.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

That's because successful implementation is not easy and human error is statistically much more likely.

Right, so the computer only messed with the songs that would have significant Hispanic appeal. Ok :

Funny, you didn't seem to feel this way or notice this when you commented that KRTH is doing everything right for 2013.

 

[michael hagerty]

That's because successful implementation is not easy and human error is statistically much more likely.

Right, so the computer only messed with the songs that would have significant Hispanic appeal. Ok :

Funny, you didn't seem to feel this way or notice this when you commented that KRTH is doing everything right for 2013.

First of all, if it's human error, the computer didn't mess with anything.

Neither you nor I know what else may be out of whack as well.

What I said about Jhani was followed up immediately by David who began with "But he may not be doing enough". David then told us (myself included) that KRTH has dipped to 12th in the demo recently.

The list of songs in which David spotted a problem came later. And all David noted was that, over that period of time, there was a lack of music that has high Hispanic appeal. That doesn't mean KRTH isn't playing them, just that they went...

Well, now hold the phone.

I glanced at the list of songs David was referring to without noticing the times played. I thought this was a block of time, but Oldies76 listed seven songs from six different hours.

David, did you catch that?

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

The list of songs in which David spotted a problem came later. And all David noted was that, over that period of time, there was a lack of music that has high Hispanic appeal. That doesn't mean KRTH isn't playing them, just that they went...

Well, now hold the phone.

I glanced at the list of songs David was referring to without noticing the times played. I thought this was a block of time, but Oldies76 listed seven songs from six different hours.

David, did you catch that?

There's nothing wrong with that particular list. Oldies was only pointing out "wow factor" songs - he acknowledged the times in the first list, and never said that was a running log of their songs. Seven songs from six different hours - pretty much fits the argument that at least one song out of the ordinary could be played - that's what he was showing.

Those lists were not used to reflect the new issue of whether or not songs of Hispanic appeal are being included, so it is fruitless to cite them as any cause or effect in this manner.

And you still won't acknowledge that the testing itself could have produced this.

 

[davideduardo]

And you still won't acknowledge that the testing itself could have produced this.

Yeah, if they only tested non-ethnic whites from Irvine, I suppose it could be the results of a test.

As I said before, music testing in theory is precise and deadly accurate.

However, this "perfection" is distorted by all these possibilities:

... the recruit is designed wrong.
Example: bringing in too many secondary (P2, P3) listeners who will be less passionate about the format and vote erratically.
Example: trying to swing the station too young by bringing in too many 35-39 people.

... the recruit is not done well.
Example: too many old demo people show, and not enough younger ones. A make good is usually called for.

... the PD implements the test by their own standards.
Example: "No way that song did not test well. I am going to play it anyway."
Example: "I always hated that artist, and I just can't stand playing them."
Example: "That song does not sound right, even if it passed.2
Observation: some PDs can successfully "weight" the test results based on a vision of the station sound. To do that, they have to be very skilled (Jhani is such a person) but they still can't get away with playing stiffs.

... the implementation in Selector or MusicMaster is bad.
Example: horizontal and vertical rotations are not done right, so songs play too soon or not at all.

But a well designed, well recruited, well analyzed and well implemented test on a station with a good signal, good talent / imaging and adequate promotion will certainly have more chances at success than one with any of these elements missing.

 

[oldies76]

I glanced at the list of songs David was referring to without noticing the times played. I thought this was a block of time, but Oldies76 listed seven songs from six different hours.

No, I am just listing hit songs that appear to be rarely played vs. the common songs that you'd hear everyday. In other words, KRTH appears to be expanding a bit with their selection.

 

[michael hagerty]

The list of songs in which David spotted a problem came later. And all David noted was that, over that period of time, there was a lack of music that has high Hispanic appeal. That doesn't mean KRTH isn't playing them, just that they went...

Well, now hold the phone.

I glanced at the list of songs David was referring to without noticing the times played. I thought this was a block of time, but Oldies76 listed seven songs from six different hours.

David, did you catch that?

There's nothing wrong with that particular list. Oldies was only pointing out "wow factor" songs - he acknowledged the times in the first list, and never said that was a running log of their songs. Seven songs from six different hours - pretty much fits the argument that at least one song out of the ordinary could be played - that's what he was showing.

Those lists were not used to reflect the new issue of whether or not songs of Hispanic appeal are being included, so it is fruitless to cite them as any cause or effect in this manner.

(harp music plays, screen goes all wavy)

[/quote]

Quote from: Biondi4Mayor on Today at 01:51:42 PM
Quote from: oldies76 on Yesterday at 06:05:44 PM
Some more gems played today (so far) on KRTH: These stand out more vs. the more frequent ones played daily.

7:49am "Call Me" - Chris Montez (1966)
8:34am "Love's Theme" - Love Unlimited Orchestra (1974)
9:55am "Afternoon Delight" - Starland Vocal Band (1976) That's twice in two days!!
10:31am "Heartbreak Hotel" - Elvis Presley (1956)
12:34pm "What You Won't Do For Love" - Bobby Caldwell (1979)
3:02pm "Walking in Rhythm" - Blackbyrds (1975)
3:52pm "Want Ads" - Honey Cone (1971)

And KRTH still digging into the 50's (heck even if it's just one song!)

[/quote]

Crazy! I'm loving what I'm seeing. These are "oh-wow's" for me - not the examples we've been hung up on before!

What I am seeing is why KRTH's Hispanic audience is declining and will likely shrink further. With one or two possible exception, none of those songs was a hit anywhere in in Latin America, and the couple that did get play were not big hits.

Since the Hispanic audience is nearly 50% of KRTH's total audience, this could be a major issue for them.

Which then prompted your suggestion that the testing was either executed perfectly or fatally flawed.

 

[oldies76]

There's nothing wrong with that particular list. Oldies was only pointing out "wow factor" songs - he acknowledged the times in the first list, and never said that was a running log of their songs. Seven songs from six different hours - pretty much fits the argument that at least one song out of the ordinary could be played - that's what he was showing.

Those lists were not used to reflect the new issue of whether or not songs of Hispanic appeal are being included, so it is fruitless to cite them as any cause or effect in this manner.

Exactly, to a minimal extent anyways, at least KRTH is playing some different tunes for a change. As for Hispanic appeal, it should not be an issue, especially for the ones who have lived in So Cal for many years. If they heard KRTH in 1985 or 1997 or today, they too would notice how KRTH has changed for the worse or better, especially if they are into the classics like most KRTH listeners.

Heck, I'm Hispanic and I noticed......way before my classic hits hobby expanded these last few years. Exactly why myself and thousands others tuned-out in the mid 90's, due to the ultra-tight rotations presented then.