KRTH Top 500 Countdown issues

[oldies76]

Top 500 countdown this year seems like a re-work of their already tight playlist, in a different order.

Also why are they only featuring 14 post 1980 songs, the vast majority of them ranked in the 400's??

Also included is one song from 1999, "Smooth"

If you are going to do an ALL-TIME Top 500 countdown, then it needs to reflect more accurately the music of ALL-TIME, in their case, Sixties thru the Eighties and the real top hits, not theirs.

Reworking your everyday playlist to present a countdown of all-time is not the way to do this.

 

[scooty430]

Another one of those typical K-Earth "phone it in" weekends.... Total waste of time. At least they are doing it in numerical order. Before Jhani Kaye, they'd have a Top 300 weekend, and the songs were played randomly. (!)

With K-Earth, you just have to wait around for the isolated times they put it some effort. During the past year, we've had the Top 1001, the Z to A, and the all-request. All fantastic. Other than that, it's been slim pickings.

For something much better, KLOS is doing their A to Z that started on Christmas. This is a rock A to Z, so very different than all the Oldies ones. I would say it's one of the best alphabet specials (and one of the first.)

Word to the wise - CBS-FM is apparently unearthing the Bill Drake produced "History of Rock and Roll" created back in 1980-ish. Starts New Years Day, and I hear it runs over 50 hours.

 

[surfdude]

What's wrong with playing THEIR listeners Top 500 favorite songs
numerically? The old Billboard and Cashbox charts don't carry much weight anymore.
K-EARTH is apparently, wisely, playing their core listeners CURRENT favorite 500 Oldies.

You two guys don't get it. Why don't you two just email or text each other like a couple of teenage girls
with your antiquated opinions on charts and oldies. It's called BROADCASTING, not TABLE FOR TWO.

 

[oldies76]

What's wrong with playing THEIR listeners Top 500 favorite songs
numerically? The old Billboard and Cashbox charts don't carry much weight anymore.
K-EARTH is apparently, wisely, playing their core listeners CURRENT favorite 500 Oldies.

In a way, it's ok. They are making it sound like it's the TOP 500 of all-time period, when in fact it's not and you know that. This is what KRTH plays any day of the week, it's nothing new, just a re-worked specialty to their liking. They are not even using the older L.A. charts, it's just Kaye's own ranking system or in other words, their everyday rotation presented in just another way.

You two guys don't get it. Why don't you two just email or text each other like a couple of teenage girls
with your antiquated opinions on charts and oldies. It's called BROADCASTING, not TABLE FOR TWO.

Teenage girls??

Surfdude, go catch a wave.

 

[LasVegasRadioJunky]

Word to the wise - CBS-FM is apparently unearthing the Bill Drake produced "History of Rock and Roll" created back in 1980-ish. Starts New Years Day, and I hear it runs over 50 hours.

The original show ran 52 hours

 

[scooty430]

What's wrong with playing THEIR listeners Top 500 favorite songs
numerically? The old Billboard and Cashbox charts don't carry much weight anymore.
K-EARTH is apparently, wisely, playing their core listeners CURRENT favorite 500 Oldies.

You two guys don't get it. Why don't you two just email or text each other like a couple of teenage girls
with your antiquated opinions on charts and oldies. It's called BROADCASTING, not TABLE FOR TWO.

We are not the only two people bored by radio. Go ahead and ask your non-radio friends and family what they think of radio. The reaction you will get is nonchalance. Nobody has any passion for these soulless, dull, robotic stations.

As for the Top 500, it's boring because it's exactly what they normally would play anyway. What is the point, then, of promoting it as the "all-time" best countdown, when in reality it's a rundown of the playlist? It's insulting to the audience, frankly.

CBS-FM in New York does this SO much better. If they are doing a countdown, they use the charts from that week in history (and they provide commentary and info alongside.) If it's an all-time countdown, they use actual sales charts. Can't argue with that. And if it's "listener chosen" Tp 500 it's really based on the votes collected. That's why the station is MUCH more beloved in New York than KRTH is (among other reasons.) They are legit. KRTH, on the other hand, is for the most part a joke.

 

[observer8057]

We are not the only two people bored by radio. Go ahead and ask your non-radio friends and family what they think of radio. The reaction you will get is nonchalance. Nobody has any passion for these soulless, dull, robotic stations.

As for the Top 500, it's boring because it's exactly what they normally would play anyway. What is the point, then, of promoting it as the "all-time" best countdown, when in reality it's a rundown of the playlist? It's insulting to the audience, frankly.

CBS-FM in New York does this SO much better. If they are doing a countdown, they use the charts from that week in history (and they provide commentary and info alongside.) If it's an all-time countdown, they use actual sales charts. Can't argue with that. And if it's "listener chosen" Tp 500 it's really based on the votes collected. That's why the station is MUCH more beloved in New York than KRTH is (among other reasons.) They are legit. KRTH, on the other hand, is for the most part a joke.

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Here’s a suggestion on how to “fix” KRTH. Pick up the phone and call Roy Laughlin. Tell him how much better you would do programming KRTH than Jhani Kaye. Your resume and insight are obviously so much stronger than his. I’m sure you could convince him that you can do a much better job than the current professional, successful guy who programs the station.

Jhani has a long track record of success. He has the experience. He has the brains. He has the talent. He understands the market. He understands targeting. He understands the audience. He understands the role and impact of PPM. He understands rotations. He understands flow. He understands talent–and works WITH them. He understands promotions. He understands programming. And he has the Midas touch in solidifying audience impact, as witness the success of every step of his career.

Be prepared to tell Roy and Dan Mason and all the suits in New York why your ideas and track record are so much better than Jhani’s. I’m sure they would be so glad to hear from you. While you’re at it, keep your computer locked on CBS New York so you can hear what you want. Meanwhile, don’t waste your time pining away about how much better you could make KRTH. I’m sure Roy is waiting for your call. Let us know how it turns out.!

 

[hamNcheese]

We are not the only two people bored by radio. Go ahead and ask your non-radio friends and family what they think of radio. The reaction you will get is nonchalance. Nobody has any passion for these soulless, dull, robotic stations.

I asked some friends. they were very passionate about their stations. they smiled. laughed. and mentioned various personalities and songs, and danced while they sang them.

 

[oldies76]

Here’s a suggestion on how to “fix” KRTH. Pick up the phone and call Roy Laughlin. Tell him how much better you would do programming KRTH than Jhani Kaye. Your resume and insight are obviously so much stronger than his. I’m sure you could convince him that you can do a much better job than the current professional, successful guy who programs the station.

Jhani has a long track record of success. He has the experience. He has the brains. He has the talent. He understands the market. He understands targeting. He understands the audience. He understands the role and impact of PPM. He understands rotations. He understands flow. He understands talent–and works WITH them. He understands promotions. He understands programming. And he has the Midas touch in solidifying audience impact, as witness the success of every step of his career.

Be prepared to tell Roy and Dan Mason and all the suits in New York why your ideas and track record are so much better than Jhani’s. I’m sure they would be so glad to hear from you. While you’re at it, keep your computer locked on CBS New York so you can hear what you want. Meanwhile, don’t waste your time pining away about how much better you could make KRTH. I’m sure Roy is waiting for your call. Let us know how it turns out.!

Jhani (in his mind) is doing what's best for L.A. and is successful at it, yes. But compared to NYC, it's running way short. For years and years KRTH has presented L.A. with a very limited variety of big oldies and classic hits, too limited for our tastes.

The big thing here and the frustrating part, to be honest with you, is that we feel that L.A. is being cheated out of hundreds more, if not thousands of OTHER classic hits that KRTH refuses to play, because of it's tight playlist. KRTH's audience over the years since the late 80's have been duped into thinking (and getting used to) that these ARE THE ONLY OLDIES ON EARTH and therefore has accepted them as the only oldies, to their minds, that mostly ever exisited. And yes, they may be happy with that based on that theory, because of what people have heard and gotten used to for over 20 years on KRTH.

We know that more songs obviously existed and when one of these "rare on KRTH songs" get played, listeners will think: "wow, haven't heard that in a while" or "geez, I'd wish they would play more of these"

On NYC's WCBS, they rarely have to think that way, since they play them ALL to begin with. Great daily line-ups and by far, superior specialties.

Jhani could experiment a bit with the specialties at least and see what he could get away with. He'd be surprised at the results.

People always welcome changes and additions, not daily redundancy, repetition and boredom.

By the way, KRTH used to sound like a WCBS pre 1988 or so. Much bigger playlists and exciting and memorable themed specialties and weekends. Why they changed is a huge mystery beyond our imagination.

 

[davideduardo]

[ KRTH, on the other hand, is for the most part a joke.

Funny, because in 25-54, WCBS-FM is 11th in NYC and KRTH is 9th in LA. Tell me, were you the owner, which one is "diong better?"

 

[andreajesus]

Funny, because in 25-54, WCBS-FM is 11th in NYC and KRTH is 9th in LA.

meanwhile, according to December's PPM numbers which were just released, CBSFM is FOURTH with a 4.9 12-PLUS!!

 

[davideduardo]

Funny, because in 25-54, WCBS-FM is 11th in NYC and KRTH is 9th in LA.

meanwhile, according to December's PPM numbers which were just released, CBSFM is FOURTH with a 4.9 12-PLUS!!

As I have said before, the reason Arbitron gives away 6+ (the 4.9 is 6+, not 12+ which is different) is that the data is totally useless for either programming or sales.

In the sales demos, here is how CBS-FM did:

25-54 11th with a 3.6, lowest since PPM became currency.
18-49 12th about the same as the median of the last 5 monthly books

For the continued survival of a format, the sales demo performance is critical. Numbers outside the sales demos may be nice for "show and tell" but they don't reflect the economic reality of radio, particularly in today's very tough times.

 

[scooty430]

Considering how many stations there are in NYC, to be #11 in the "desired demo" seems pretty good to me. Not every station can be #1.

 

[scooty430]

We are not the only two people bored by radio. Go ahead and ask your non-radio friends and family what they think of radio. The reaction you will get is nonchalance. Nobody has any passion for these soulless, dull, robotic stations.

As for the Top 500, it's boring because it's exactly what they normally would play anyway. What is the point, then, of promoting it as the "all-time" best countdown, when in reality it's a rundown of the playlist? It's insulting to the audience, frankly.

CBS-FM in New York does this SO much better. If they are doing a countdown, they use the charts from that week in history (and they provide commentary and info alongside.) If it's an all-time countdown, they use actual sales charts. Can't argue with that. And if it's "listener chosen" Tp 500 it's really based on the votes collected. That's why the station is MUCH more beloved in New York than KRTH is (among other reasons.) They are legit. KRTH, on the other hand, is for the most part a joke.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here’s a suggestion on how to “fix” KRTH. Pick up the phone and call Roy Laughlin. Tell him how much better you would do programming KRTH than Jhani Kaye. Your resume and insight are obviously so much stronger than his. I’m sure you could convince him that you can do a much better job than the current professional, successful guy who programs the station.

Jhani has a long track record of success. He has the experience. He has the brains. He has the talent. He understands the market. He understands targeting. He understands the audience. He understands the role and impact of PPM. He understands rotations. He understands flow. He understands talent–and works WITH them. He understands promotions. He understands programming. And he has the Midas touch in solidifying audience impact, as witness the success of every step of his career.

Be prepared to tell Roy and Dan Mason and all the suits in New York why your ideas and track record are so much better than Jhani’s. I’m sure they would be so glad to hear from you. While you’re at it, keep your computer locked on CBS New York so you can hear what you want. Meanwhile, don’t waste your time pining away about how much better you could make KRTH. I’m sure Roy is waiting for your call. Let us know how it turns out.!

Your suggestion is silly, condescending, and indicative of radio's dismissive attitude toward the customers they ostensibly serve.

If I went to a restaurant and complained about the food, would you tell me to don a chef hat and go in and teach the cook a lesson or two? That's basically what you are saying: that as a listener my opinion is not valid because I do not "work in radio."

Well guess what? The average citizen (not radio geek) DOES think radio has become boring.

I don't really care if Jhani is the King of Siam. I'm giving you my impression of this station. And, like most people in the city, especially those my age (low end of the target demo, by the way), we think it is boring. It survives lately because of the recent addition of all the late 70s stuff. Sir Duke, Dancing Queen, and Night Fever are not burned out songs.......yet..... So it's listenable (barely.)

But keep the playlist small, burn those titles into the ground, and within a few years, it will be just as bad (and low rated) as the old Jay Coffey KRTH was. Wait and see....

 

[davideduardo]

Considering how many stations there are in NYC, to be #11 in the "desired demo" seems pretty good to me. Not every station can be #1.

First, there are only about 26 "viable" stations in NYC, meaning they are genuine players with signals able to cover the metro. Some are AM, too.

When agencies buy, they don't buy every station. They buy a few deep in each market (if it is a multi station buy) and they study reach, the collective number of people who will hear the ad on several stations. Stations are selected to provide the greatest reach for the buy, and this is done by eliminating stations that don't add to reach.

So 11th in the core demo is likely out of a lot of buys, as they seldom go 11 or 12 deep overall. And since CBS-FM does not do well in 18-34 and 25-34, it may not fit on all buys that want the lower end, which is where consumers are less brand-loyal and more prone to trying different or new products.

On the other hand, NYC is the second biggest market for radio advertising, so there is a lot of money, even now, and the mid range stations do much better than they would do in Indianapolis, Birmingham or Denver.

 

[gr8oldies]

I love people who survey "me and all my friends" and think stations should program based on that.

 

[cyberdad]

When agencies buy, they don't buy every station. They buy a few deep in each market (if it is a multi station buy) and they study reach, the collective number of people who will hear the ad on several stations. Stations are selected to provide the greatest reach for the buy, and this is done by eliminating stations that don't add to reach.

So 11th in the core demo is likely out of a lot of buys, as they seldom go 11 or 12 deep overall. And since CBS-FM does not do well in 18-34 and 25-34, it may not fit on all buys that want the lower end, which is where consumers are less brand-loyal and more prone to trying different or new products.

Why is this dynamic so difficult for so many to understand?  One of the reasons I got out of broadcast and into a parallel advertising/marketing universe in 1979 is because of how quickly I got fed up with owners, programmers, marketers, etc. that couldn't grasp this basic concept.  Now, 30 years later, radio is right up there for me with the NFL, MLB, and politics as great spectator sport, and I remain blown away by the high percentage of people who still haven't learned this fundamental lesson. 

I'll go so far as to say that at least some of the conventional wisdom at work here may be 100% dead wrong.  So what? My number one rule in business has always been "find out what the (paying) customers want and give it to 'em".

Lets say I'm an outerwear manufacturer and I happen to really, really like red coats.  The fashion critics happen to 100% agree with me.  But the public is overwhelmingly buying blue coats.  I have a payroll to meet and I have to answer to stockholders, note holders, etc.  Guess which type of garment I'm going to offer to my customers?  My own preferences and the consensus of the (non-buying) outside "critics" have NO bearing my decision. 

This is not exactly rocket science.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

CBS-FM in New York does this SO much better. If they are doing a countdown, they use the charts from that week in history (and they provide commentary and info alongside.) If it's an all-time countdown, they use actual sales charts. Can't argue with that. And if it's "listener chosen" Tp 500 it's really based on the votes collected. That's why the station is MUCH more beloved in New York than KRTH is (among other reasons.) They are legit. KRTH, on the other hand, is for the most part a joke.

You miss the point entirely.
First of all KRTH (and their inferior countdowns) outperform CBS-FM and theirs.
Secondly, its not about old, questionable charts from the past. Its about which of those songs listeners want to hear today!
(For instance, would listeners today rather hear "Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting" by Elton John or "You Light Up My Life" by Debby Boone,
I'll bet the answer is different than which one charted better).
I can also tell you that much of your perceived "belovedness" of CBS FM is based on its former personalities, like Harry Harrison, Cousin Brucie, Ron Lundy etc...
Just as KRTH's was built around Morgan, Steele, etc... But there is also a perception by some that the CBS FM of today isnt quite "legit", its not the same station that people remember from a decade ago. KRTH for the most part is.

I doubt I could ever change your mind on this, but I do wish you could understand that playing too many "oh wow" songs and keeping your head buried in old Billboard or Cashbox charts is not the way to serve a mass audience over the long term. This reincarnation of CBS FM does a good job, but they don't have it down as consistantly as KRTH does, yet.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Considering how many stations there are in NYC, to be #11 in the "desired demo" seems pretty good to me. Not every station can be #1.

Not for CBS. The goal is to be a top 5 performing station in the demo.
They flipped it to JACK when it was performing better than 11th.

 

[oldies76]

First of all KRTH (and their inferior countdowns) outperform CBS-FM and theirs.

KRTH does not even have countdowns, they have INFERIOR specialty weekends, which CANNOT compare to CBS-FM by a long shot!
If you bother to compare the two stations over several months time, you'd know what we're talking about. They have true Top 20 countdowns which go by actual chart data, not daily playlists arranged in a different order to simulate a specialty.

Secondly, its not about old, questionable charts from the past. Its about which of those songs listeners want to hear today!
(For instance, would listeners today rather hear "Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting" by Elton John or "You Light Up My Life" by Debby Boone

We're talking specialty countdowns or weekends, not daily line-ups. You Light Up My Life, a huge #1 hit in 1977, would be featured on a "this week in 1977" feature or the like. Saturday Night's Alright....could be played several times a week AND on a special.

But see, KRTH does not even highlight years or the real top songs. CBS-FM does that and makes it superior to KRTH.

WCBS-FM plays everything KRTH already plays and so much more!! You cannot deny that.